TinyMight / TM 2

MHL

MHL

Try hard noob
> 'newest version 2024.09'.

They seem to say it about all their vaporisers. When you posted that line I knew immediately which store you were talking about 🤣

I'm not saying it aint true though!
 
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J

JJ785

Well-Known Member
Is there are any difference between the walnut and PH models, other than colour and included accessories?
 
JJ785,
Cheebsy

Cheebsy

Microbe minion
JJ785 said:
Is there are any difference between the walnut and PH models, other than colour and included accessories?
Click to expand...
Possibly! You'll have to ask TM directly though for certain. We expect the updates to make it across the range but haven't had confirmation.

When the PH model was released they touted zirconia oven liners and thicker ceramic rods in the heater assembly. Tbh, zirconia is a great material but it does have more heat capacity than Boro, so the unit reportedly retains more heat for longer. I think I prefer the device to be cooler at the expense of some fragility. I have never considered my original TM to be fragile though, others disagree.
 
Shit Snacks

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
JJ785 said:
Is there are any difference between the walnut and PH models, other than colour and included accessories?
Click to expand...

The difference in wood species is not as simple as color, you can look up the differences between american walnut and purple heart further although it is mostly aesthetic in this application there is also some textural differences in the grain etc
 
Timps27

Timps27

Feel like I’m winnin’ when I’m losin’ again
Just got my PH, it’s everything y’all said it would be. I don’t have a walnut to compare, but I know there are heater and air path changes in the PH. As someone with far too many vapes to choose from already, I’m glad I added a PH Tinymight!
 
gangababa

gangababa

Well-Known Member
never_inhaled said:
Okay, I started reading through this whole thread and realized it would take me forever... so then I searched and started reading once the PH version was released... ~50 pages later I finally finished!
I saw the discussion about thermal controls and I'm wondering if anyone knows which temperature sensor is used and where it is located? I'm guessing with the temperature range the TM2 uses its not an integrated solution. For example if a thermistor is used, I'm interested in which one and where it is located as well as the rest of the signal path (i.e. data converter).
If someone has a broken down PCB and has pictures where the topmark can be read that might be helpful as well.
Click to expand...
The Tinymight is controlled by the number dial which rotates an adjustable rheostat (pot) resister. The electronics use this resistance setting to determine how to cycle power to the heater. The vape does not use any form of temperature measurement. Essentially the system resistance variations determine the power delivery. This is why the vape has had power-loss problems caused by minor corrosion where parts clamp together, increasing resistance in the total system. Think of the Tinymight as a Model T; the owner handles the controls. It is not a modern computer masquerading as a car.
EDIT ADDING: Not my photography
Recessed-Screw-PCB.jpg

My picture.
20240711-162821.jpg
 
Last edited:
Timps27

Timps27

Feel like I’m winnin’ when I’m losin’ again
JJ785 said:
Is there are any difference between the walnut and PH models, other than colour and included accessories?
Click to expand...

Here you go, from POTV, the wood and some changes in the heater and air path internals:

More durable heater​

Tinymight also took the opportunity to strengthen their heater with a few minor changes. The quartz glass construction has been replaced with zirconia ceramic, a denser material, and the support rods that surround the heater are twice as strong as previous designs. It’s a much more robust construction that won’t impact performance, but a more durable vape is always welcome, especially at this price point!

www.planetofthevapes.com

Introducing the Tinymight 2 Purple Heart Vaporizer

A durable purple wood finish, accompanied by a few key add-ons, brings a fresh new take on this exceptional vaping experience.
www.planetofthevapes.com www.planetofthevapes.com
 
never_inhaled

never_inhaled

Member
gangababa said:
The Tinymight is controlled by the number dial which rotates an adjustable rheostat (pot) resister. The electronics use this resistance setting to determine how to cycle power to the heater. The vape does not use any form of temperature measurement. Essentially the system resistance variations determine the power delivery. This is why the vape has had power-loss problems caused by minor corrosion where parts clamp together, increasing resistance in the total system. Think of the Tinymight as a Model T; the owner handles the controls. It is not a modern computer masquerading as a car.
EDIT ADDING: Not my photography
Recessed-Screw-PCB.jpg

My picture.
20240711-162821.jpg
Click to expand...
Thank you for the pictures and pot discussion (pun intended). If sounds like there is no feedback path to prevent thermal runaway, which could explain the user's experience. Your corrosion example also might explain the origin of calibration mode. I wonder if drift over time determined the need for a calibration mode. I would think the calibration mode is done digitally assuming there is a microprocessor.
Do you know any specifics on the architecture? I understand the pot is used to adjust the heater output. Either a voltage or current would be produced by the potentiometer. I would expect this input is then either going to an ADC and then maybe driving a PWM ckt? or is it purely analog and the input of a driver to control the heater current output? There is a large chip in the middle is that a microcontroller? I'm also interested in what the temp range of those chips are. (ICs are generally specified up to 125 or 150'C, that's performance... i don't remember reliability data for max temp). If I remember correctly even the metal can packaged were only used up to 200'C. The heater is going to radiate lots of heat and the encloised case is going to trap that heat.
 
never_inhaled,
Cheebsy

Cheebsy

Microbe minion
I remember back a few hundred pages ago we postulated that the OG has some TCR determining coil temp from resistance and PID like software to maintain temp under load. I don't think it's as simple as a potentiometer, inhale strength would then play a much bigger role in performance.
 
Cheebsy,
never_inhaled

never_inhaled

Member
Cheebsy said:
I remember back a few hundred pages ago we postulated that the OG has some TCR determining coil temp from resistance and PID like software to maintain temp under load. I don't think it's as simple as a potentiometer, inhale strength would then play a much bigger role in performance.
Click to expand...
It's sounding like the reliability is based purely on the usage model... which means its quite possible for the user to damage the TM via overheating. The PCB doesn't look like a purely discrete solution, so bad things can happen above 150'C... by the time you hit 240'C or so solder can start to reflow. There's going to be a temperature gradient, but I wonder why session mode hasn't created more problems. I'm imagining that some output driver, say a current source (it could even be a trim DAC) is driving the heater (load) I think you are right that headroom has to be given so this driver can product more current under load (inhale). I believe the original poster (@WhyWhyWhy? ) was inhaling during his temperature measurements to simulate these load conditions.
I say all this because it means that under normal session mode (no load) the device probably sits near the rated temperature. However, the load (inhale) will create more current.. creating more heat... until the device eventually is damaged. I'm not saying WhyWhyWhy? is seeing the results because he caused damage... I'm saying he will eventually damage his device because the only protection is the usage model... but TM doesn't give guidelines on how much thermal guardband is left if any. So I believe he had a valid point. And the response is also correct... the TM isn't robust enough to regulate the temperature under any conditions... so it's based on the usage model.... if it feels hot, best to stop. It's not a robust solution but seems to be holding up over the years or the warranty takes care of it.
Since we aren't inhaling the whole time in session mode (no load condition)... the device stays in a reasonable temp range and that is why damage isn't frequent. However the potential exists for the user to damage the device by doing long inhales, and there is no thermal monitoring to protect the circuit. With configuration states, led modes, calibration this is all much easier done in the digital domain. I thermal monitoring circuit would help reduce the reliability concerns... even something simpler like a short circuit protection ckt could help limit the temperature. Thermal monitoring can get complicated, so I don't think we'll ever see tight temperature control... but a reliability-based temperature limit is reasonable. i hope this is easy enough to understand.. rushing for dinner :)
 
never_inhaled,
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gangababa

gangababa

Well-Known Member
never_inhaled said:
...
Do you know any specifics on the architecture? I understand the pot is used to adjust the heater output. Either a voltage or current would be produced by the potentiometer. ...
Click to expand...
At this point I have no further knowledge about what is happening, though I agree that users' technique can cause greater heat than expected from the TM.
 
never_inhaled

never_inhaled

Member
gangababa said:
The Tinymight is controlled by the number dial which rotates an adjustable rheostat (pot) resister. The electronics use this resistance setting to determine how to cycle power to the heater. The vape does not use any form of temperature measurement. Essentially the system resistance variations determine the power delivery. This is why the vape has had power-loss problems caused by minor corrosion where parts clamp together, increasing resistance in the total system. Think of the Tinymight as a Model T; the owner handles the controls. It is not a modern computer masquerading as a car.
EDIT ADDING: Not my photography
Recessed-Screw-PCB.jpg

My picture.
20240711-162821.jpg
Click to expand...
btw, it's a little hard to read... but that appears to be an MSP430 microcontroller... specifically it looks like the MSP430FR2675TRHB. That makes sense to me.

It has an I2C/SPI interface, 12 bit ADC, Vref, Comp, DCO along with some features (captouch) that probably aren't being used. I can see a couple of the analog inputs headed to the pot. The Absolute Max Ratings for this chip is 115'C junction temperature, with performance specified to 105'C ambient. I think the Abs Max is a bit conservative, but I wouldn't be surprised if leakage currents wreck havock on the esd structures for those analog inputs.. making the temperature setting unreliable when the ambient temperature in the case gets above 105-150'C. The company is TI, so they are probably using lower leakage (MC) clamp structures which will help some.
If TinyMight doesn't already do it, they should have a temp sensor with a comparator output to shutdown the heater when it gets too hot. I think they are pushing their/our luck if they aren't. Care will need to go into the design since I expect many users are exceeding the temp range and just shutting off the heater to cool won't fly with them.
Since I2C is likely used, I would look for more chips with at least 5 pins (for a digital temp sensor).
 
never_inhaled,
2tiki

2tiki

Well-Known Member
I wrote POTV and asked if, since the regular TM2 they sell comes with a stem with beads instead of the Titanium stem, does that also mean it uses a metal sleeve in the heater instead of the traditional glass one. Larry wrote back and said that it is a metal sleeve now. I assume this means that any place selling the one with the Titanium stem are not selling the updated version.

I didn't think to ask if it has all the improvements of the PH version though. I'm seriously thinking if POTV has them on a BF sale, I may finally order a TM2.

When in on-demand mode, do you have to hold the button the whole time it's heating up and until you are done taking the hit? If so, how long would you say you are holding the button down for during that time? From starting to heat it up until you are done with the hit.
 
2tiki,
Shit Snacks

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
2tiki said:
When in on-demand mode, do you have to hold the button the whole time it's heating up and until you are done taking the hit? If so, how long would you say you are holding the button down for during that time? From starting to heat it up until you are done with the hit
Click to expand...

The length of a hit is personal, everyone is different, yes you hold the button the whole time while it is heating up, vibrates and then you start inhaling, keep ripping and then let go of the button before you are ready to stop inhaling, that way you keep inhaling to clear the heat and vapor fully each time... Do not stop drawing while still holding the button ideally, this is why the session mode is a bit of a misnomer, it is just keeping the button on for you, making it impossible to clear all the heat and vapor fully unless you remove the stem or shut off the device (10-20sec)
 
Cheebsy

Cheebsy

Microbe minion
never_inhaled said:
when the ambient temperature in the case gets above 105-150'C.
Click to expand...
It's this really the case though? That bottom plate would be far too hot to hold if it got that hot down there, wouldn't it?

Can you elaborate on your testing procedure that lead you to conclude the temperature of the circuit board under normal conditions?
 
never_inhaled

never_inhaled

Member
Cheebsy said:
It's this really the case though? That bottom plate would be far too hot to hold if it got that hot down there, wouldn't it?

Can you elaborate on your testing procedure that lead you to conclude the temperature of the circuit board under normal conditions?
Click to expand...
I don't know what the temp inside the TM2 is. It's a concern that I have based on the testing @WhyWhyWhy? did and the temp range specified by TinyMight. I don't know how well the zirconia ceramic insulates the PCB ambient temp.. this is something TM would have to characterize during their design/test phase. The leads themselves will also conduct temp, so it becomes a full PCB Monte Carlo style simulation, which I doubt they do.
My concern is mostly for session mode where the heat builds up in the unit. I'm also not sure how much thought TM put into the thermal design. I would think at a minimum the critical components should be placed on the PCB so that fresh air is pulled over them during an inhale. It seems like the air intake consists of the openings surrounding the stem. Maybe fresh air cools the outer shell of the zirconia ceramic and PCB, the question is that enough especially during no inhale (session mode). I have to guess what makes sense, because I'm not taking apart my brand new PH. So, I'm a bit blind here. Maybe @gangababa or someone that has taken apart a TM can share the intake air path.
For me, I'll stick to on-demand mode and I prefer lower temp settings anyway. If I was a user who used "10" on session mode, I would be nervous. Keep in mind Abs Max ratings are process and architecture based and tend to be conservative. However, something like solder melting is likely catastrophic. My guess is the usage model most people use limit the chance of reaching temps high enough to reflow solder. WhyWhyWhy was illustrating a worse case example by longer than usual inhales. His data and what I know about the PCB so far suggests there is no temperature regulation only control over the heater drive. I may not have the full picture because the device seems to compensate for load conditions (inhale). Again I don't have a teardown or schematic, so I have to guess they are using an ADC channel for the heater setting (temp dial) and another one with a thermistor to compensate for load (inhale). I don't see why with the MSP430 they don't also control for overtemp conditions. You never know what sort of issues they were dealing with behind the scenes... or didn't consider. (I would also have to take a closer look at the ADC arch used in the MSP430).
At this point it doesn't really make sense for me to go any further. I'm willing to assume the TM2 PH will work fine with my personal use case, since there doesn't seem to be temp related failures reported on here. I am retired after all.... I don't want to do this stuff anymore even when I'm getting paid for it.
 
never_inhaled,
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Hagbard

Hagbard

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sometimes i am reading through all of this stuff in the night and i am wondering how much science is there to explore such a small device. it is really really interesting but way to high for my understandings of what could be in what case (also given english is not my first language)... i love the TM2 and sometimes after reading all this i regret to look at (and read into) these topics cause i am always getting a bit nervous if the devices i love so much are really that good (especially for my health) as i ever imagined :/
 
Timps27

Timps27

Feel like I’m winnin’ when I’m losin’ again
gangababa

gangababa

Well-Known Member
Damn!! I fried my Tinymight. It is ruined; simply a collection of spare parts now.

I wanted to remove the new heater I had in the TM (after a warranty fix) and replace it with the original glass sleeve heater.
No problem, eazy-peezy. I've been into the TM before; I have knowledge and tools and now I have new knowledge to share for the benefit of humanity.
There are two possible ways to set the metal disk (to which the heater center shaft is attached), with its two pegs onto the PCB with its two locating holes. ONLY ONE WAY IS CORRECT. Reassembled wrong, a direct short circuit will be created.

See how the disk standoff peg and the heater power strap are in this picture. The heater power strap (+) and the disk (-) touched and fried the PCB.
20241022-165735.jpg


The disk must be set on the PCB such that the heater strap aligns with the space between two standoffs as seen here.
20241022-170301.jpg

As you can see, a lot of heat was created and the wood burned.
20241022-165615.jpg
 
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