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The Lotus Vaporizer

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by Max Jitter, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke Vaporist (v3.0)

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    Location:
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    Salutations Max Jitter,

    We have irreconciliable positions here, i'd argue that i do actually see the water vapour accumulating on the interior wall on my PVC extension for the VG (i can tell the difference between moisture condensation and cannabic condensation)... It's very real to me in any case, as i can tell the difference from using the HerbalAire previously: dryness! The water vapor generated by butane burning simply enters my cannabic channel and it was this rare auto-moisturization feature that charmed me instantly. Too bad i had to go through some sort of intolerance period, possibly to contaminants (maybe it works today but there's also tomorrow i worrry about). As a sampler my VG performs beyond my initial expectations but it's just not ideal 100 % of the time, hence my quest for Plan-A.

    So far there's no other competitor on the horizon and i'd choose the Lotus Combination Pipe and Water Pipe Adapter Kit anyway. It might come handy knowing where to go in Montreal the next time i happen to be around. Summer is comming soon after all...

    :peace:
     
  2. natural farmer

    natural farmer god is in the neurons...

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    Hey mate! I get what you are saying about the moisture in the VG hits. It is one of the by-products of the flame and it was one of the things that bugged me about the VG. Water vapor tends to feel much hotter to the tongue and a slightly burnt tip of the tongue was a usual thing as I recall.
     
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  3. vorrange

    vorrange Well-Known Member

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    2,234
    Egzoset, is it possible that the water vapour you see is from the air you breath that condenses in the pvc tube?
    And also, i think it is more likely to attribute dryness to the air temperature and small air path which dries the airways than to a lack of water vapour.

    I'm not questioning what you felt or how it improved by your modding.. just the reasons that led to the improvement.
     
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  4. Max Jitter

    Max Jitter Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Mendocino County CA
    You are right about the water vapor generated by burning butane. I was wrong.
    Dr Jeffrey Hergenrather of the Society of Cannabis Clinicians has this comment about butane (mostly related to BHO):
    Butane isn’t just butane, it contains contaminants. Approximately 20% of the volatile fuel in a common “butane” lighter fluid is a combination of other hydrocarbons including benzene, ethyl mercaptan, heptane, and hexane. If it smells like lighter fluid you shouldn’t use it.
    These other hydrocarbons have a lower vapor pressure than butane. They don’t evaporate as readily and are likely to remain as residue in the extracted cannabis oil. When smoked or vaporized, the contaminants enter the body through the lungs. In general these chemicals are considered neurotoxins. Chronic exposure to low-grade butane extracts should be considered poisonous.
    From http://www.beyondthc.com/use-of-dabs-gaining-popularity/#more-7862
    I don't know if this relates to 3X & 5X butane.
     
  5. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke Vaporist (v3.0)

    Messages:
    2,750
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations Natural Farmer,
    Salutations Vorrange,
    Salutations Max Jitter,

    In this particular case a clear PVC extension tube replaced VG's original mouthpiece early after my purchase: i was heating my sphere & bowl so much this cured wood finish after a few preliminary fumes... That must have been about when i realized how convenient it was for me to have HA teflon straws handy, to be honest! So, to me it's evident a significant lack of agility prevented proper operation of their classic pipe within the usual parameters. Eye contact on the flame changed this all and it was my extension modding which made that finally happen, as far as i'm concerned.

    :science:

    Burning lips was the trigger event urging me to elongate my cannabic channel by 7 inches (~18 cm), which probably happened to implement cooling as a side-effect. So, it's entirely probable other VG owners didn't ever notice condensed water in their VG pipe handle if it's so much hotter when compared to mine.

    [​IMG]

    The 1st teflon junction represents an abrupt pressure transition point cool enough for PVC plastic if i can juge from the touch alone. Yet water condensation only takes place in the second half (farther away), past a second sudden transition point... No doubt this is an important divergence from VG's genuine models.

    Lately there's been mixed signals for many days relatively to my nasal congestion followed by unusual sneezing, i suspected in turn: contaminated lighter, contaminated butane gas, exacerbated sensivity due to outdoors pollen, contaminated cannabis batch, contaminated pipe... This prompted me to switch to filtered butane gas (30 ppm impurities), i also purged/refilled my Gaucho often in hope this could clear the matter (at least it didn't hurt!). Multiple lighter brands/models were tried, mostly jetables. Alternate strain of differing origin was added to my tool-box late but i was already showing signs of improvements at the time so i'm still uncertain as a result.

    What i do know is that my 3rd modded VG should be OKay when traveling out of town or just for sampling purposes, but... A main driver with no questionable inlet still remains to be found and i've come to appreciate the bursting humidified cannabic vapour generated in my VG - quite a bit, despite an obvious trade-off due to the fact that H2O is accompanied by CO2 and butane-related contaminants, invariably. Potential owners only have to fall into a proper category and i'm short of luck i guess...

    [​IMG]

    VapoCane's concept could have worked for me if shocked glass didn't have a tendency to shatter, it should also have implied mandatory use of a water accessory as i have no idea if simultaneous release of the goodies AND water vapor (contained in the herb itself) would have sufficed anyway. Vaponic was another candidate, made of glass too...

    Your Lotus Water Pipe Adapter strategy appears to be the closest offer to make sense in my present situation. I may even like the original pipe mode should i select the full blown kit, though chances are this will be my next table unit so far.

    Too bad i'm not into e-commerce or i might be evaluating it already!

    :peace:
     
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  6. Max Jitter

    Max Jitter Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    Mendocino County CA
    We have a 'how to' video up on YouTube showing how to use the new model Lotus.
     
  7. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke Vaporist (v3.0)

    Messages:
    2,750
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations Max Jitter,

    It's always a good thing to get the late news, personally though i had something similar to this on my mind instead:

    [​IMG]

    It would have a large short neck to allow fitting a nebulizer inside (with plenty of water mass around its body). I guess PVC tubing would form a short path between the mouthpiece and an adapter for the adapter, euh...

    Hummm... It's difficult to explain, i'm thinking of a merge with the FogBong!, which is a way to add moisture using a Mist Maker nebulizer or equivalent. Only a tiny hole (punctured in a relatively short PVC tube forming the main cannabic channel) would let moisture combine to cannabic vapour, in order to garantee satisfying conditioning meant to compensate for some eventual dryness. There would be no contact with water in the usual sense.

    Anyway i was wondering about heat and thought you might want to add some wooden handle, if that could be useful at all. As a matter of fact i was hoping to find some ready-made commercially-available humidifier made of materials i could easily shape to turn it into a FogBong, with the Lotus Water Pipe Adapter sitting on top... A bit like this:


    Just imagine the Lotus adapter somewhere on one side and the mouthpiece tube on the other.

    But i'm afraid there would have to be glass present if i must connect PVC tubing to the Lotus adapter, correct? Glass or ceramic, then cilicone or teflon i suppose.

    :peace:
     
  8. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke Vaporist (v3.0)

    Messages:
    2,750
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations,

    This is to illustrate a merge between the Lotus and my FogBong concept:

    [​IMG]

    The Zobo ZB502 Water Pipe has a large bottle about 5 cm (2 ") (dia.) x 10 cm (4 ") (high), this strongly supports the idea that a Mist Maker nebulizer (or equivalent) shall fit inside since it's only ~4.5 cm (1¾ ") (dia.) x 4.5 cm (1¾ ") (high). That might not leave a sufficient amount of water above and below the ultrasonic nebulizer though, a deeper bottle might be needed. Anyway, the pipe's top should match a Lotus adapter's sturdiness (e.g. metal construction to handle the heat and ease maintenance using strong solvants)... PVC tubing under the cap (most likely via a teflon interface) would form the main cannabic loop, e.g. where moisture injection must be restricted to preserve aroma/taste.

    :peace:
     
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  9. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,716
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Agreed. Apparently I hang with a bunch that never got the memo? D9 products Omicron and Persei have over 20,000 posts from us, TV products about the same last I checked. Which of these 'non learning curve' portables comes close?

    It would seem some of us are hearing a bit about such vapes?

    Of course not. Read the MSDS for it:
    http://www.vectorkgm.com/catalog/butane/Vector_Gas_MSDS.pdf

    60% n Butane, 29% iso Butane, 11% Propane. No room left for the "Approximately 20%" mystery poisons. What's in the can all burns up. Nothing of interest, water vapor and CO2 and lots of lovely heat from long ago.

    Guys using it for it's intended use (burning in lighters) should be fine. Even those who 'huff the stuff' (check it out, Butane is the most abused gas in the UK, guys get frostbite in their throats from spraying it into their mouths.....and survive). Guys who use it as a solvent making hash oil illegally are, of course, on their own.

    Not to worry I think?

    OF
     
  10. natural farmer

    natural farmer god is in the neurons...

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Only thing that matters to me though is that it always fucks up my throat when I use it with a vaporizer... :\ Except the Lotus as you don't inhale the fumes whatever they are...
     
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  11. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,716
    Location:
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    If you say so.

    I also own and use Iolite and Vapman both with proven isolation between fire and suck. There are, I believe, others but I don't own them. Once burned the stuff is pretty safe. You use hundred or thousands of times more in cooking and internally vented heaters of basically the same stuff with nobody dropping dead, either.

    Even unburned it's basically a non issue in normal cases I think....aside from the cold and suffocation risks. Partially burned of course gets us into CO concerns which are a whole other matter.

    Everyone gets to decide. I favor informed decisions based on verifiable data to aid in that, stuff like above.

    OF
     
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  12. satyrday

    satyrday Well-Known Member

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    That's mighty white of you!
     
  13. sadf

    sadf Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Butane is not a dangerous gas, flammability and tendency to be stored under pressure aside. The only medical danger it presents is asphyxiation and its combustion byproducts are water and CO2.

    I haven't been reading these forums for long but I'm already tired of every thread being hijacked either by inane, false fears of butane or meandering posts about some magical undefined water vapour intake system that has nothing to do with the products these threads are supposed to be about.
     
  14. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke Vaporist (v3.0)

    Messages:
    2,750
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations,

    No butane lighter is perfect, how does one obtain a perfect butane burning scenario then??

    Additionally, who's a perfect operator?...

    [​IMG]

    Like it or not i've evaluated Fog Conditioning and found it was good, switching from the HerbalAire to the VaporGenie only provided the confirmation of it: moisture makes a difference for me and hence i WANT moisturized cannabic vapour. Moreover, i've also verified that water washing hurts the Aroma/Taste perception, e. g. No GlassWare for me if i can help it, please!!

    Also, since there's no reason that i'm aware of which would suggest otherwise then to me The Lotus is similar to most other dry-type vaporizers. The existence of a GonG adapter for water accessories supports this impression quite obviously, IMHO...

    [​IMG]

    The Lotus being right on top of my list i don't see this as abuse, contrary to what's being sugested in the quote. My interest is genuine and i'm not sure what to think of a post meant to derail, deny, etc.

    Have you ever evaluated Fog Conditioning the way i have?? That was an eye opener, do yourself a favour by experimenting it yourself!

    :peace:
     
  15. satyrday

    satyrday Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,371
    The argument is getting tired ... in both directions. But that doesn't stop people from jumping in the fray (me included). OF summed it up best in my quote of his above.
     
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  16. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    11,716
    Location:
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    I'm sorry, I'm not sure what the intent of that is really but I find the term inappropriate and offensive. I see no reason to inject race into this at any level. Doing so does noting to aid in clear communication, in fact IMO it interferes.

    I don't understand the point (restate it if you wish).

    OF
     
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  17. satyrday

    satyrday Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,371
    It's an old saying that refers to the color of one's intentions or heart, it has nothing to do with skin color. It was popularized by Dirty Harry (sarcastically).

    Oppositely, if you call someone a blackheart, it also has nothing to do with skin color.

    Skin color shouldn't matter, but since you bring up the topic, I don't necessarily mind injecting race because I love them all (depends on one's intention).
     
  18. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    11,716
    Location:
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    Maybe where you are, here it's a racial slam. Go watch the movie again, look at the context, it's racist. He's trying to piss off the fellow at the 'local VFW, Very Few Whites'.....

    I agree race should not matter, it has no place here. I disagree it doesn't depend on intent as much as perception. Saying a woman is attractive is a complement or sexual harassment based not on what you said but what she heard. I think we're best advised to avoid such problematic terms when others exist that aren't?

    As Callahan might say 'be mighty stylish'?

    So what was your point? It's good people should educate themselves and make their own decisions? I obviously (I hope) agree.

    OF
     
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  19. satyrday

    satyrday Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,371
    Honestly it's been a long time since I've seen Dirty Harry. Some may see it as racist and use it that way.

    But I don't see the yin yang symbol as racist either and I see it as similar to the saying, so we should be clear now on my perspective for all those keeping track.

    And if you look into the history of the saying I think you will find it is not meant to be racist (although it is a confused history as evidenced here, so maybe I shouldn't use it). I can't speak for your local community. Actually if used racially, I think nowadays it is more of a sarcastic dig at the white race, like pointing out hypocrisy. Perhaps that is how Dirty Harry used it? (I don't remember that character as being particularly racist)

    I was using it sarcastically to make the point that after another butane lecture, it's awful nice of you to give us with sensitivities the choice to decide.

    Now, I realize those lectures go both ways and I've given them too from the other perspective. I agree with sadf that it is getting old.
     
    OF likes this.
  20. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,114
    I've heard that term used many times without racial intent, as I believe was the case here. We've successfully derailed this derail.

    egzoset...when I posted that this topic might deserve its own thread and shouldn't run its course in the hammer thread, I didn't mean choose another vaporizer thread to have this discussion. you've managed to bring this up in about four vape threads and really derailed two of them. Obviously this topic has enough life to warrant its own discussion separate from any vape thread. Please go make that thread and keep these discussions out of the model specific threads. This isn't about what you are trying to achieve, but rather about how we want you to go about discussing this topic on this forum. Thank you.
     
  21. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke Vaporist (v3.0)

    Messages:
    2,750
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    • When a staff member nicely asks you nicely to move your off-topic discussion to its own thread, please do it. Thanks.
    Salutations StickStones,

    The alias is written "Egzoset", with a CAPITAL "E" and you still got 2 capital letters yourself: so yes, it matters to me.

    Interesting administrative diagnostic... It seems there's been confusion caused by recent interference; moisturizing is something i want/need for the Lotus while soft flame Butane Lighters are for my VaporGenie pipe instead: dryness is a non-issue with the later design because of how it's being heated and this is where the similitude ends. No confusion from me! Since i can't add a water evaporator and i don't wish to use a water bong it only leaves me Fog Conditioning for the Lotus - which is only another aspect of a same solution equally tested in the VG by design: e.g. moisturization (or more precisely self-moisturization in that case).

    In fact, i myself would much prefer avoiding this level of confusion resulting from a succession of posts that started revealing patterns, IMHO. So, please don't let interference from others continue until exhaustion and then tax me for all the mess a couple pages later, there was a thread specifically created by me for my own present purpose:


    Of course it might be appropriate to discuss those matter in more global terms but after this turmoil i seriously doubt it would be allowed to turn right anyway. Your call, it never even was mine to make!

    Yes, these concepts do indeed depend on a lighter for their normal operation after all.

    That would have been a pleasure to participate to civilized discussions in the way you seem to support, perhaps next time less interfence (or more polite one!) would be nice before it ends with the usual outcome.

    :peace:
     
  22. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

    Messages:
    2,567
    Egzoset notice the star next to the name stickstones maybe Read his last post again .
    just sayin' .
     
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  23. Egzoset

    Egzoset 1SipAToke Vaporist (v3.0)

    Messages:
    2,750
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations RUDE BOY,

    You're on my ignore list and i was asked to post elsewhere, brave fanboy warrior!

    :peace:
     
  24. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

    Messages:
    2,567
    What the Fuck is a Fanboy ?

    Why don't you start a thread ?


    EDIT : Anyone can answer my first question , Egzosets gonna ignore me .
     
  25. vtac

    vtac vapor junkie Staff Member

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    4,981
    Location:
    FC R&D
    Let's get this thread back on track please.

    My early model Lotus is currently out on loan to a friend. Easily one of my favorite flame powered portables. Fast, simple, and durable. :tup:

    [​IMG]
     

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