Discontinued The Grasshopper

[Square4Life]

Reading through all this has provided some interesting thoughts.

I think if I was an employee at HL, I wouldn't even bother sending Reps into the forums yet at all. I would zip my lip and just start sending out working products. Then when they can show they have done something, then start sending people in to talk about and answer questions on how they already resolved different issues, not how they plan to resolve, but what they already did. It starts the conversation on the foot of, we didn't do a great job, but we are improving, and here is how. Rather than trying to make promises that we have to take at face value.

For me, I have a number of vapes to fall back on. But nothing checks all my boxes like a Hopper does, so I have one of their most current. Everyone probably thinks this is foolish, but I think the new design is fantastic and it might be the winner we are all looking for. So far I ran my TI Hopper HARD, especially this weekend. I went through like 20 bowls in it, most of them at 4.5 or 5 through water and would charge after each sesh. The thing is still doing fine, and cooking bowls perfectly to a dark brown providing a lot of hits and a solid high each time. (water >4 and native at 3).

So when I was blitzed out of my mind and I got the email about the 420 packages with the extras and what not with the SS unit. Yeah I bought one. Woke up the next morning a little surprised why I did that, but I'm gonna stick to it. I figure then I have two units and I can see if they are as reliable as they claim they are now. More test units I guess. And in the event one fails, I have something to fall back on.

Thankfully I'm in a position to be able to do this, but I understand that most people aren't. And in that case, yes I wouldn't recommend a Hopper.

Anyways I guess what I'm saying is. Despite their past, I've decided to throw myself on the sword and see if they are living up to their word.

I couldn't resist and pulled the trigger on a new Titanium Hopper last night. I still have and am using my original Ti hopper (last repair March 2017). It has recently been going straight to blue (I think 4 or 5 times this weekend) but has been 'fixed' with compressed air.

With all of the new updates, 420 sales, etc....I couldn't resist any longer. This will give me a back-up and when both are working, my wife and I will have a "His and Hers" Hopper haha

I am really looking forward to comparing it to my current Hopper. I haven't had any issues since it was repaired in 2017 until the recent straight to blue. It operates perfect other than that recent change.

It really is unfortunate how some have had such a rough time with the Hoppers. I've went through the gamut...woodscents logs, e-nano, flowerpot, dynavaps, fw4, iq, fury, argo, mighty....The hopper always keeps me coming back for the 'desktop' performance in such a small size. And this is also all on batteries which are two years old. And I'm not trying to say it's the best vaporizer...just suits my needs the best.

May the success stories continue on! lol I'll post back with my findings later in the week.

 

[mario]

When my kit comes in I'll make sure to post the differences between my current Ti and the SS if there are any noticeable ones.

I used my Hopper on my lunch break today and again I am reminded how amazing vapes can be. Don't get me wrong I love all my vapes, but if I had to pick and favorite. It would be the Hopper every time. And this is coming from someone that has loved and lost with the Hopper once before.

Right now things are working perfectly on their current model and I have 0 complaints about its performance.

 

[TheBandit]

I still want that spare Hopper body that I bought from them. I paid for it on March 15th but ended up filing a Paypal dispute with them on April 10th because they're incompetent goons who cannot do anything right. I got my money back. I wish I had filed a dispute a year ago over my original Hopper... but alas, the 180-day dispute window on selling people unreliable garbage has passed.

Again, I love this product when it works. It is fan-freaking-tastic. But I'll repeat my dumpster fire caveat from earlier.

 

[Grepper]

I left this particular thread almost 2 years ago and absolutely nothing has changed. If anything, its worse. How sad! Best of luck to those still willing to support such a company. Unfortunately this support hurts the community as a whole and encourages more companies to behave the same. At some point, we need to demand higher standards

 

[Hammahead]

Best of luck to those still willing to support such a company. Unfortunately this support hurts the community as a whole and encourages more companies to behave the same.

I think there are much greater threats to "the community" than a bunch of nerds with terrible claim and trouble management. I don't think their behavior is going to be a popular blueprint for scammers, as there are way more effective (and dangerous) ways to defraud people, like selling knock-offs with inferior materials and products. Hopper Labs is facing so much flak and is forced to take highly expensive counter-measures to stay in the market and - well, sort of - make things good. Actually, I believe the Hopper story will keep a lot of niche-products off the market and will discourage potential engineers from entering the market without a bullet-proof business plan.

Don't get me wrong: I'm as frustrated as anyone with their way of doing business, and I realize a lot of support for them is fueled by the fact that people want the company to survive because of that tempting life-time warranty. But they're not like, idk, Grenco or worse, who apparently have no interest whatsoever to launch a working, safe product.

 

[Grepper]

I disagree, but appreciate your input.

 

[OF]

I disagree, but appreciate your input.

Well put.

OF

 

[mario]

Ok just for some more positive thoughts and vibes.

This morning I shot Hopper Labs an email. Basically expressing that I understood if order shipping times would slip because of the holiday shipping, but just wanted an estimate. Not demanding anything, just asking if they expected things to slip.

I sent that email at 8:47 AM

The auto reply came back at 8:48 AM

Hopper Labs sent me a reply back at 8:49 AM

Support said that he would make sure that my order went out today and that they appreciated my understanding since they are quite busy but that he would make sure mine went out.

Again the TI I have right now is amazing still. I'm looking forward to comparing it to the SS and of course to see if their claims about the Hopper bubbler are accurate.

Just putting all this out there to bring some more happy thoughts to the thread.

 

[Vaporific]

Ok just for some more positive thoughts and vibes.

This morning I shot Hopper Labs an email. Basically expressing that I understood if order shipping times would slip because of the holiday shipping, but just wanted an estimate. Not demanding anything, just asking if they expected things to slip.

I sent that email at 8:47 AM

The auto reply came back at 8:48 AM

Hopper Labs sent me a reply back at 8:49 AM

Support said that he would make sure that my order went out today and that they appreciated my understanding since they are quite busy but that he would make sure mine went out.

Again the TI I have right now is amazing still. I'm looking forward to comparing it to the SS and of course to see if their claims about the Hopper bubbler are accurate.

Just putting all this out there to bring some more happy thoughts to the thread.

Indeed positive yet keep in mind it’s about a new order and hence revenue. The RMA related responses have been few and far between and certainly not very informative, IMO.

Much I’d like to add to some of the recent posts, pro and anti HL. I’m not terribly thrilled with how the product was rolled out, early reliability (which seems to be improving albeit slowly), my RMA situation (ahem!), etc. Yet I’m secretly routing for them to succeed, almost to the point of nearly pulling the trigger on a new unit as part of the 420 sale but I couldn’t bring myself to give them more money at this point (except for batteries which I did purchase as part of the 420 sale and had PayPal issues which they were more than quick & happy to respond to and resolve - see above point about new revenue/orders). Yeah, “free lifetime warranty” is a big promise but it shouldn’t be justification for early product reliability (or design) issues, and they throw that back into our face when responding to RMAs saying they are “free but takes time”.

So about that hypothetical HL Coefficient I mentioned earlier about how long your unit worked within the life of ownership? I’m probably at 50% and slowly decreasing as it comes up to almost 3 years this July. And half of the functioning time was with ghost vapor.

Whenever my unit comes back and I deem it working properly I reserve the right to hop back into the bandwagon, otherwise I’ll continue to straddle the fence.

I’m on the fence but fall to the side of hope & cautious optimism. Indeed, when the thing works well, and consistently, it has its place among anyone’s vape lineup...

Terrific Tuesday to everyone.

EDIT: no sooner than i posted this did I receive the extended 420 email from HL. Tempting again but I’ll exercise cautious restraint and refusing to feed the fire.

 

[MikeG7265]

I'm sorry I just can't bring myself to say anything positive at this point. It's wonderful that yours was shipped, but no offense that's how most companies operate normally. And it doesn't really help those of us waiting a year plus . All it does it make the sour taste more sour . But that's just my .

I really would like the opportunity to try the newest version, and even considered purchasing the 4/20 deal . But couldn't justify giving them anymore money .

 

[mario]

I 100% understand that the RMA process is completely different from the purchase of a new product.

However, I think it is fair to say that people who are getting their units back now will start to be really happy with what they are getting back. Do they need to do a better job getting those out, absolutely! But it does appear that their product itself is getting better, which means that someday this RMA hell will be over.

The product will go back to working as it should and failures will be few and far between.

Currently, my Hopper coefficient is this:

Original Hopper:
- Owned 4 months
- Working 2.75 months
68.8%

Current Hopper:
- Owned 3 weeks
- Working 3 weeks
100%

 

[OF]

This last bit, on how new sales are different from RMAs, reminds me of one of my favorite jokes told by Bennett Cerf (founder of Random House, and lifelong collector of American Humor, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bennett_Cerf):

The Sargent is giving the mandatory reenlistment speech to the soldier about to leave the Army. The Private listens carefully as the Sargent recites the list of benefits to be had as part of the modern Army then says, 'gee, Sarge, that sounds really great! What say we quit this here Army and go join the one you're talking about?'.

Regards to all.

OF

 

[TheBandit]

Ok just for some more positive thoughts and vibes.

This morning I shot Hopper Labs an email. ... I sent that email at 8:47 AM

The auto reply came back at 8:48 AM

Hopper Labs sent me a reply back at 8:49 AM

Support said that he would make sure that my order went out today and that they appreciated my understanding since they are quite busy but that he would make sure mine went out.

Just putting all this out there to bring some more happy thoughts to the thread.

Well that's all very nice. In my experience, Hopper Labs are very good at communicating with customers when it comes to taking their money. Except when you give them your money and they don't ship your spare vaporizer body for almost a month and you have to file a Paypal claim. Because they're waiting on parts for your RMA'd unit that is somehow simultaneously broken but yet has also passed final testing.

But apart from sales... when you have to deal with their RMA system... boy are they out to lunch. At least these days. I have sent them several e-mails in the past weeks, and have received nothing in response. Nothing. Which is why I'm here shitting all over their sorry excuse for a company and their unreliable product.

My problem is an easy one to fix. They just need to put my allegedly repaired Hopper in an envelope (along with my charger and battery) and then send it back to me. That's it! That's all they've got to do.

They can't even do that.

And I've had it.

 

[mario]

They can't even do that.

And I've had it

Yeah I can imagine that is really frustrating. It seems strange that there are some people that get lost in the cracks. I wonder what is happening in their office where so many of those emails go untouched vs the emails from people such as myself that seem to get their attention instantly. I don't think someone is sitting there sorting through them and deciding on which ones need a response and which ones they are going to ignore. If that was the case, then there would have been no need to respond to me this morning at all, it was 100% an email that could have waited. So there seems to me like there are two different processes. Someone who answers purchasing emails, and then a different group that responds to RMA emails and handles that process.

Regardless, I have to ask. Why do you keep coming into this thread to bash them? I'm not being rude, genuinely curious. There are some people here who have had bad experiences no doubt, but there are also good experiences here as well. Are you trying to spare people the idea of buying a hopper or do you feel that your story needs to be told so someone at HL might see it?

Those are the reasons off the top of my head that would motivate you to put so much negativity down on paper against people that are clearly not 100% corrupt or evil. I think you have made your point that you had a disappointing experience, but you have reiterated it a number of times over the last few pages, so I guess I'm just trying to understand why you need to share it with us so much?

 

[MikeG7265]

If say that given the disarray that the manufacturing side was in . It's probably safe to say their office skills were lacking also . Probably just one big mess to have to straighten out .

I mean we all remember Caroline

 

[Vaporific]

If say that given the disarray that the manufacturing side was in . It's probably safe to say their office skills were lacking also . Probably just one big mess to have to straighten out .

I mean we all remember Caroline

She’s no longer there? Lol. She probably couldn’t handle it anymore even with all the inherent perks. She replied to me a few times a few years ago.

“I was so much older then I’m younger than that now.”

 

[OF]

If say that given the disarray that the manufacturing side was in . It's probably safe to say their office skills were lacking also . Probably just one big mess to have to straighten out .

I'm betting they are the same folks making calls company wide. Fairly typical, really.

One thing sure, both those groups, as well as CS, are playing with all the marbles in the end. If any one of them fails outright the whole bunch is doomed. No amount of new sales will save you if more than a certain percent are 'coming back'. Many an otherwise company has died this way.

For instance, Cartrivision:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartrivision

The first available home video machines. Long before VHS and Beta. Only studio open reel machines using 1 inch tape were available for serious bucks. They had normal carts you could record on, and rentals that could only be viewed once (no rewinding). Several big stores 'bought in' and away they went. Like the proverbial rocket. Expanding like mad. It depended on a special .7 mil (oddball thickness) half inch video tape to get enough run time, they built the machine around it. As they expanded, their supplier ('sole source' often the kiss of death) of the tape had trouble supplying their growing demand. Then a clever buyer found another source of the oddball size and they were 'saved'.

Then it went up on the rocks. The binder that holds the oxide layer on was letting the occasional bit flake off. Took lots of time to happen, but no way for the owner to fix. Some of this magnetic debris would find the gap in the scanner and degrade performance. First you lost color, then stability of the remaining video. Sears had four customers, Doctors in Santa Cruz where there was no dependable 'off the air' programs and no cable TV yet of course. They held the company to the contract (which they were famous for), refusing to let them file bankruptcy. For four Doctors with Lawyers.

Eventually the courts let them close down.

I was fresh out of school, on my first 'real job'. Some of the techs I worked with and I bought LOTS of machines from the ultimate sale. $109 for 'in the box, tested' machines from the warehouse (they'd continued to produce them until the end). $35 for those in Production Test, $25 for complete machines 'ready for test'. Everyone we knew got their TV converted (we'd often have a dozen or more 'after hours'). For $150 you could have your own VCR when nobody but the very rich could. Color to boot!

When they blew up, everyone except a few supervisors who knew what they were doing had a tool kit and a pile of the right tapes. They'd come to your house, pull the covers, carefully clean all 3 heads in the scanner, replace all the tapes you had, apologize and move on. New hires in remote cities with rental cars, burning money.

It can easily happen, it doesn't take much......and the volume can (and often will) kill everyone. It's a jungle, you need Principals that know where the traps are. Solid design, testing, QC, and a firm (very firm) control of problem units. Change can come too late, good as it might be otherwise.

Hopefully HL has learned this in time. Like Cartivision, a product 'too good to lose' from the market.

OF

 

[Baron23]

I opened two new RMAs for my two previously RMA'd GH's that were returned to me by HL with them running unacceptably cold to the point of being non-functional, really.

I opened them late in the day on Fri and received email instructions to return them today. This is the fastest response I have seen from HL but its only an email and we will see what happens.

 

[OF]

I opened two new RMAs for my two previously RMA'd GH's that were returned to me by HL with them running unacceptably cold to the point of being non-functional, really.

I opened them late in the day on Fri and received email instructions to return them today. This is the fastest response I have seen from HL but its only an email and we will see what happens.

Curiosity question: Who pays the postage? How about the second time around for the same unit?

TIA

OF

 

[newVaper420]

Curiosity question: Who pays the postage? How about the second time around for the same unit?

TIA

OF

Customer pays. At least I paid everytime I had to send my hopper back.

Truth be told, I pulled it out of the drawer after Mario's excitement. It has been working good. But not great for me. Sometimes taste is real awful.

This morning, power kinda lost its umphhh. Let's see what happens when I get home and change batteries.

 

[Baron23]

Curiosity question: Who pays the postage? How about the second time around for the same unit?

TIA

OF

The customer but they do offer a reduced cost shipping. This in the RMA correspondence:

*It is 100% your responsibility to get the device to us. If it gets lost in the mail or there are other shipping problems there is nothing we will be able to do. Save your tracking number. Domestic (USA Only) Customers can purchase return postage for $5.00. Reply to this message and ask for that service.​

I choose to ship both back in the same box and use FedEx ground...they never seem to lose my packages and USPS does on a regular basis, it seems.

 

[TheBandit]

For my first RMA, Caroline was lovely and set me a pre-paid mailing label. I was very happy with my first RMA experience. They seemed like they might be able to pull it off at the time. I wish I had had more experiences like that one.

So let me state this point for emphasis. Not all my experiences with HL were bad. Many were good. But the ones that have been bad, have been disastrously bad. And I've told them this for months and months. First politely. Then with an increasing amount of frustration and hostility. The final straw was all their freaking 4/20 sale spam... which isn't TECHNICALLY spam, since I opted-in... but I did so on the understanding that you might be able to, you know, like... buy a working product that ships out within 48 hours of your purchase?

Anyway, would just love to have a working Hopper that doesn't break for at least 12 months so that I can feel like I didn't set $250 on fire.

 

[mario]

Truth be told, I pulled it out of the drawer after Mario's excitement. It has been working good. But not great for me. Sometimes taste is real awful.

Honestly, the first thing I noticed more than anything else was how many hits were tasting delicious. With my vapcap, the first hit tastes great, and maybe the second hit. Then it starts to get harsher.

The hopper right now, set on 3 gives me like 5 TASTY pulls before it starts to even taste like it is being cooked. That is usually when I bump it up to 3.5 and finish the bowl off in another 6 or 7 hits. Something about the new heater for sure does something different because I haven't ever seen the Hopper leave things green for so long while still providing huge clouds and powerful hits. It isn't running cold, it is running hot as hell, but it is much more efficient in how it cooks. I have run it on 5 natively and through water, and I get the same experience, just needing to use fewer hits or smaller ones to get the same result. So it isn't even close to combustion.

The first couple of times I used it, I prepared myself for the hot close to burnt hits right from the start to get the 'hit' I was looking for. But I was pleasantly surprised when the first multiple hits were all tasty and huge without clearing the entire bowl. It was a very different experience than when I first got a Hopper. I can honestly say that I don't feel even a little bit bad about buying 2 in the space of a month.

 

[OF]

The customer but they do offer a reduced cost shipping. This in the RMA correspondence:

*It is 100% your responsibility to get the device to us. If it gets lost in the mail or there are other shipping problems there is nothing we will be able to do. Save your tracking number. Domestic (USA Only) Customers can purchase return postage for $5.00. Reply to this message and ask for that service.​

I choose to ship both back in the same box and use FedEx ground...they never seem to lose my packages and USPS does on a regular basis, it seems.

Thanks for the details. You pay to ship back is common even usual I think. But your having to pay return back to you is really lame if you ask me......even if you don't. Just who's fault is it???? When I've had a say I backed a 'we pay both ways the second time policy' (an easy sale if you have a reasonable boss). One place we'd cut a check to return with the repaired unit, another we'd issues the Dealer credit, a third place where we made 12 Volt fluorescent lamps for RVs (including all Fleetwood 'coaches') repairs were marked with a R in one corner, the next time back, when we saw the mark, they got a form letter of apology and a new replacement lamp. RV guys flock together and love to swap 'coach stories'. All service lamps went out in two days (burn in overnight, followed by QC at 2 of the 5 stations like a new lamp). First priority. RV guys would come by (perhaps an excuse) on our invitation to our Southern California factory for a tour and service. We'd keep a box of Warm White bulbs (women love the color for makeup and such), we'd give them their choice.

Word would spread, retired couples visiting was at least a once a week happening.

Small shop, 36 at the time, 33 women on two lines. We did 1500 lights a day, that's 3000 'bulbs', Sylvania's largest customer for their 15 Watt tubes. They were the largest maker of such lamps at the time. Amazing lesson on what volume means to the treatment Salesmen give you. Every time you turned around Sylvania or Texas Instruments (transistors) guys (often in pairs) would want to take you to lunch........ Contracts for half a million parts at a crack really interest them, somehow. I guess the boss liked it and was happy to 'spring for lunch'?

Good customer relations are Gold, worth a major effort IMO.

Too bad HL seems to be coming up a bit short. Sounds like recovery might be at hand? Let us pray.......

Regards to all.

OF

 

[Baron23]

But your having to pay return back to you is really lame if you ask me......even if you don't.

I interpreted that a bit differently and understood that if I pay them $5, they will email me a USPS label for return shipment to them. If they try to charge me to ship it back to me....well, that may provoke a napalm strike on their position. LOL

I don't mind paying to ship an item back once.....I had to pay to ship my EVO back to them when it failed in the first week or two (electronics board infant mortality).

This is NOT the first time with HL, but still...if they actually fix the fuckers this time, I will not mind the cost of shipping.

Good customer relations are Gold, worth a major effort IMO.

Couldn't agree more and it sounds like the RV lighting business you were in recognized and complete understood this.

Hopper....as documented right in this thread....has had total hangar queens, returned multiple times (highest count of RMAs from an individual that I heard of was 22...but this may have been over two devices) but never recognizes it nor done anything about it (like scrap the hangar queen and give the poor soul a new, working, device).

Here's hoping that there is a sea change at HL....but, we have seen promises not fulfilled before by these guys.