Discontinued The Grasshopper

[Vaporific]

That’s interesting. The dial on my new unit is smooth as butter now and there is no grinding. In fact there is a small gap and the two parts of the dial don’t even touch. I think there were a lot of improvements done to the back end as well as the body.

Interesting indeed. My backend didn’t have issues with the temp dial at all, and the threading was pretty silky. Yet my vapor production was meh at best bordering on pretty poor. And both the body and backend got hot frequently and I never experienced cop lights. So maybe it was the backend but I also think the heating was very inconsistent the second year I had it.

There are several symptoms and as many causes. And fewer solutions. I like the total replacement idea and sell the refurbished units.

 

[mario]

I can say that the Hopper I have now is a completely different vape from the one I had previously. The back end feels much better and smoother. I think that is at least part of it, but the body also feels different when it heats. I can tell that the heater is regulating itself, rather than in the past it just ran away with the heat until everything was burnt. Improvements all around and currently am very very happy with it.

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

One of the employees from Hopper Labs is doing (sort of) an AMA on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/vaporents/comments/bbnaas/hey_rvaporents_quick_update_and_ama/?sort=new

In case anyone missed it there was another AMA from Hopper Labs on a different subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrassHopperVape/comments/bbn94g/hey_rgrasshoppervape_quick_note_and_ama/

A few interesting notes, it seems the newest releases are V6 or V5.1 at least, a new component was added 8 weeks ago:

“For devices as new as yours we only have to add a small component, an upgrade from 7 weeks ago, and it's ready for reshipping.”​

Here’s a list of what has changed, I’m assuming this is a combination of V5 changes plus the newest update to the internals:

“I can't get too specific for proprietary reasons, but we added several new components on the board, updated software, added gold plating and soldering for better conductivity, and have a better machine for soldering components. Our machine is more precise than doing it by hand. We also have better procedures during the build and inspection process.”​

Failure rates of different Grasshopper designs:

“I have to keep specific numbers in house, but for our first design released 5 years ago, almost half were defective and fixed. Every new design has seen better results. Our newest has yet to fail, and our previous one to that only having a few. We isolated the electrical issue causing that as well, and made the necessary change.”​

This is promising:

“We have reached the point of healthy cash flow positive.”

“We never plan to give up, and our company is in the best standing of it's history.”​

Don’t get too excited though, there is a limit to that cash flow:

“For repairs, we completely replace all internals with modern designs that are proven reliable. We've made updates to the electronics and heater recently, and we are cycling devices 1000's of time without failure.
The outer body stays the same though. We wish we could replace the whole unit, but we can't afford that at the moment”

“Financially we cannot afford to send new devices to everyone right now. But I hope to get us there in the future. We plan on building a device that lasts a lifetime, so it is not ever an issue.”​

Overall the situation at Hopper Labs sounds promising. It seems they have better testing and standards in place now and hopefully the new design is as robust and reliable as they claim. There seems to be at least one new “co-owner” and while he has room for improvement on the PR side it sounds like he has the right ideas on how to move forward.

It’s going to take a lot to improve the reputation of Hopper Labs but I think they are determined to succeed. If the new design and testing are as robust as claimed then customer satisfaction should steadily improve from here on out. They have made similar claims before though so it will be interesting to see what happens next.

 

[Vaporific]

Thanks for the info @Vapor_Eyes . I’m seldom on Reddit and wonder why they chose that instead of this specific forum to communicate with users in a community setting?

The news and frequency of response therein is mildly promising and also the fact that they’re still
solvent, but their backlog and double-speak related to it still leaves a bad taste in the mouths of many (mine included). I want to believe but...

 

[beiberhole69]

So I was playing with it. And I think I get about the same vapor wherever the risl is set . Just barely on, to past 3 gives about the same .

(This is pretty fresh back from RMA)

Also, why is there always a space being auto corrected in before my periods . It's weird .see?

 

[Baron23]

Ah, hope springs eternal...I opened new RMA tickets on my two Ti Bronze GHs, both of which have had bodies replaced under RMA and both of which run too cool to be usable...AFTER the frakin RMA.

After doing the dance with them twice on these two devices, I was just weary of Hopper Labs, tired of their half-ass performance and cock-ups, and they both have been just sitting on the shelf for almost a year?

But, being the sucker that I am...that and when a GH is running correctly it is an OUTSTANDING portable vape (IMO)....I opened two new RMAs today.

We will see....if they start the same level of confusion and half-ass CS as before, I will abandon them. If they come back and don't work perfectly, I will abandon them.

Hopper Labs has one more chance to make it right...if they don't, I'm moving on.

 

[TheBandit]

Happy holidays! I'd just like to take this occasion to say the following:

Fuck Hopper Labs, fuck their unreliable garbage product, and fuck their even-less-reliable garbage communications department.

I'm done extending charity to these incompetent liars. Give them your money at your own peril.

 

[TheBandit]

Apparently I was given a warning point for pointing out that the folks at Hopper Labs are incompetent liars who sold me a faulty vaporizer that they are unable to repair, and who have repeatedly told me falsehood after falsehood concerning the status of my warranty claim. If that's against the rules, I apologize. But it shouldn't be.
I bought my Hopper almost 2 years ago. In that time, it has functioned properly for just over two months. The rest of the time, it has been in for repair. The last warranty claim has been open for just under 14 months. During those 14 months, they have done nothing but fail and lie. My Hopper has been in "final testing" for almost a month. I purchased a spare body in hopes they'd ship my repaired unit and a backup to me, as they said they would. But after weeks of hearing nothing from them, I filed a Paypal claim and got my money back for the spare body. They still have yet to fix my product and ship it back.
It's 4/20. All I want is my goddamn Hopper back or my $250 that I spent on the Hopper, batteries, and a PFE. And they've given me neither, so I said "Fuck them."
Fuck them.
I'm not sure if people have figured out how this business operates, but they consistently sell people products that they haven't built yet, and then consistently fail to deliver. They cannot build a reliable product, and they can't even build enough unreliable products to keep up with demand. On top of that, they don't seem to care about telling customers the truth. At least, they don't care about telling me the truth.
I have 14 months of back-and-forth BS with their customer support people, and I've had it.
Fuck combustion, but also fuck HL. They need to get their house in order. I love this forum. And I love my Hopper, when it works. But man... that company is a dumpster fire.
Caveat emptor.

 

[ChooChooCharlie]

I disagree


Best vape I’ve ever had

Use it everyday, all day

Sorry it hasn’t worked out for you

 

[TheBandit]

I'm sorry too. It's great when it works, but mine doesn't. And they've had a million years to make things right... and I've been in touch with them -- a lot -- and they've done nothing but fail and lie. If your experience is different, I am oh so very happy for you. I want to be you. But I'm not. I'm very much not.

 

[cilantro]

@TheBandit sorry to hear this. I don't chime in here often, but sad to hear the same line echoed over and over in here: "GH is great when it works". I still have my Ti hopper which works but it gets such light use because of VAS and my lucky situation. I am so confused as to why HL doesn't have an official presence here on FC. It seems to me that some simple contact would build a tremendous amount of good will and renewed faith in their product.

 

[OF]

@TheBandit I am so confused as to why HL doesn't have an official presence here on FC. It seems to me that some simple contact would build a tremendous amount of good will and renewed faith in their product.

Unfortunately I understand why they don't. We can be a pretty rude lot sometimes. We, collectively have driven off several such representatives in other threads where the units were doing much much better. Seriously, in once case at least 3 times. A new rep would 'step into the breech' and be savaged by upset owners, even non owners sniping about 'mystery toxic vapors' and such. Folks really pile on. One fellow shut his business down, no more products at all.

Potentially a 'pretty thankless job', even at the best of times. Think about it, every time you log on and don't find angry, even abusive, posts from very argumentative customers (and non customers) would be a day to be remembered (even celebrated). Long odds, not much profit from that?

Such a job can easily drive a guy to drink. Literally. In past jobs I've been Customer Service for companies with solid products and good support practices, you couldn't pay me enough to take that one on. The bottom line would quickly be very negative, no chance for "good will and renewed faith in their product" until the product was reliable every time, the backlog of defective units 'wiped clean' and the company in a position where they could once again expect customer confidence based on historical good will. But. even then, our history on other threads suggests angry posts would still happen......driving our Moderators closer to alcoholism? Even then I could not recommend such a public washing of the laundry. Sadly.

HL has 'a tough row to hoe' and a long way to go. Not, I think, hopeless. Some good units exist with happy owners. It's possible? But they need to get to a place where problems are the rare exception that are quickly and satisfactorily resolved.

Until that day, when you can depend on a new GH to function well every time, having a dependable backup vape is important (even for solid brands, IMO)......as you would for any 'mission critical gear'.

Easter regards to all. Looking forward to better times on many fronts.

OF

 

[OF]

Unfortunately I understand why they don't. We can be a pretty rude lot sometimes. We, collectively have driven off several such representatives in other threads where the units were doing much much better. Seriously, in once case at least 3 times.

OF

I just had an additional thought on this, but it's been to long to edit the above post.

Consider what would happen on lesser threads if HL sent a rep here (most like it'd be a Principal to boot). Every gripe there would be bait for 'hey, they've got one of the owners on FC, why don't you go there and raise hell?'. Like God made them little green apples I'm sure it would happen. We'd get swamped by angry new posters with no stake in, or contribution to, FC. IMO not the kind of posts we really want. We don't need to import more rude people with nothing more to offer. The Mods are busy enough already.

So, if it happens, I'm hoping it happens on some lesser thread I never read.

Best Easter wishes to all, a beautiful day is just getting started here and I hope where you are as well.

OF

 

[MoltenTiger]

I'm sorry too. It's great when it works, but mine doesn't. And they've had a million years to make things right... and I've been in touch with them -- a lot -- and they've done nothing but fail and lie. If your experience is different, I am oh so very happy for you. I want to be you. But I'm not. I'm very much not.

I'm sorry, but they haven't had a million years. When did you actually purchase?

The numbers you give indicate that less than 16 months ago you received one... that was rather unfortunate timing. I guess you've ordered Nov 2017 just when shit hit the fan. Bad luck

 

[MikeG7265]

We were discussing a few pages back about them figuring someone out by their username. It's happened, they commented on the post I made in Reddit about complaining and mentioned me by name and my situation. And I have to say I'm not sure how I feel about this. I almost feel like I've been doxxed .

Guess I'll know if my hopper comes back in worse shape than it was.

 

[TheBandit]

I'm sorry, but they haven't had a million years. When did you actually purchase?

The numbers you give indicate that less than 16 months ago you received one... that was rather unfortunate timing. I guess you've ordered Nov 2017 just when shit hit the fan. Bad luck

It was just about 22 months ago in June of 2016. So almost 2 years. My Hopper has been in working fashion for a total of just over 2 months during that entire period. Hopper Labs has had it the rest of the time. It worked the first time for just about 2 weeks. The second time, just over a month and a half (with other vapes in rotation). The third time it broke was after just another 2 week period. This last RMA has lasted for over 14 months, and it's been stuck in "final testing" for over 4 weeks after they told me to confirm my shipping address or else they'd never ever send it back to me. And that's after telling me falsehood after falsehood about when my repair would be completed. I still have no idea when to expect my Hopper, even though it's apparently been repaired. They're "waiting on chargers."

So maybe it hasn't been a million years. But when someone takes your money and leaves you out to dry for two years, it sure as hell feels like it.

 

[OF]

We were discussing a few pages back about them figuring someone out by their username. It's happened, they commented on the post I made in Reddit about complaining and mentioned me by name and my situation. And I have to say I'm not sure how I feel about this. I almost feel like I've been doxxed .

This is scary, IMO, really scary. No matter how they figured out who you were (perhaps unique failure timing?) and linked that to your 'real name' to publish it is a foul deed for sure. Even if ownership and use was completely legal where you are (never a given) it could put 'you' in a bad spot with parents, spouse, work authorities and so on. You could easily end up losing your job, get divorced or thrown out of your parent's basement......for instance. Reckless at least, probably criminal? You gave them your name in assumed confidence which they have betrayed. Even if you were lying about the problem (which we all assume you were not), they'd better have a court order as I see it to tell anyone, let alone everyone who happens on such a post.

Last I heard you can get an hour with a Lawyer for $200 to $300 and for $100 more they will write a really nasty threatening letter to HL. I bet if you set up a 'go fund me' account you could raise that very quickly at say ten bucks a contribution?

A history of 'outing' even a single owner should disqualify them. Who would want such a risk? Even if they fixed all their problems tomorrow, and cut their price in half, I'd never consider supporting such a lame company. Buyers should know of this highly questionable history before they take such an unexpected risk.

Wow.

OF

 

[Baron23]

I'm sorry too. It's great when it works, but mine doesn't. And they've had a million years to make things right... and I've been in touch with them -- a lot -- and they've done nothing but fail and lie. If your experience is different, I am oh so very happy for you. I want to be you. But I'm not. I'm very much not.

I too have general contempt for this company's performance, view a certain member here on FC as an unalloyed apologist, and I don't care about their recent communications on product, process, and company improvements since we have all seen them say similar to this many times before....with no result tangible result. I agree that their track record of failure and dodging customers is well documented over the last few years. One member here has...I think...22 RMAs total. Not sure if he has a working unit at the moment.

Its "show me" time..."tell me" time is far, far over and HL gets no benefit of the doubt from me anymore.

If you have a properly working one, the function is outstanding. But that is far from every case and does not excuse their truly excretable execution and communications.

Please note that I said function...IMO, a large part of their problems with failures and reliability is directly due to THEIR design choice and in specific the form factor of a pen coupled with their wireless design that uses the junction of the body and back end as the ground path. This is on them......entirely.

Hopper Labs....we heard what you have to say....so now either put up, or shut up and shut down.

@OF - I couldn't disagree more...I think blaming the forum for their lack of presence is incredibly disingenuous. I don't think we are generally rude....though rudeness does happen....but we are generally critical in the sense of "expressing or involving an analysis of the merits and faults of a work".

Now sure, if they showed up now...with people with double digit RMAs and periods of GHs running properly being an order of magnitude LESS than the period of their ownership....yeah, if they showed up now they would indeed catch a load of shit and deservedly so.

Its been these cats SOP to duck and avoid direct interaction with their customer base since before the first horrendously delayed first shipment.

No...its not the forum's fault....its all on Hopper Labs.

How about Epic....was pretty much a two person company until now they are what...up to three? And they execute well, respect their customers, and have a presence with which to communicate directly. And there are many other small companies with similar profiles and good customer service and communications.

We will just have to disagree with each other on this point....all good, still friends.

 

[TheBandit]

I will admit to losing my cool with this company and going beyond the standard boundaries of decorum, but that is because their performance was so piss-poor that they deserved maximal public shaming in whatever tiny way I could offer it. The thing is, I love their product. I would LOVE to sing the gospel of the Hopper. In fact, I'm a former member of their choir. But they have failed again and again. And the only thing I've heard from Hopper labs in the last four weeks besides excuses are spam e-mail advertisements for things they haven't built yet. Shame.

 

[OF]

@OF - I couldn't disagree more...I think blaming the forum for their lack of presence is incredibly disingenuous. I don't think we are generally rude....though rudeness does happen....but we are generally critical in the sense of "expressing or involving an analysis of the merits and faults of a work".

Disagree if you want, but please don't characterize me or my opinions as "disingenuous" I am neither being insincere nor pretending anything, what the term means (look it up?). I'm being quite honest in my observations and opinions.

TIA

Please note I've said at least one company sent two more reps into the fray after the first gave up. 3 at least. And we have badgered one maker into giving up completely after posting something to the effect 'it's possible you're dealing with assholes'. We be they. Lots of folks with axes to grind, which is why we have a rule specifically addressing this?

I'm saying we, collectively, have that history. You do accept that? I don't want to name the threads, but if you don't believe me, PM me and I'll let you know which confidentially.

Thanks again.

OF

 

[TheBandit]

The implication seems to be that we're the assholes and Hopper Labs are the victims. But that is not the case, regardless of the forum's history. Perhaps you feel some unearned guilt for things other people have done on this forum. If so, I'd invite you to shrug off that unearned guilt. And I'd invite you to place guilt where it belongs. In this case, on the shoulders of Hopper Labs.

 

[Baron23]

please don't characterize me or my opinions as "disingenuous" I am neither being insincere nor pretending anything, what the term means

While I do think that there are less pejorative understandings of that word's meaning, I do apologize as it was not my intention to personally insult you.

I have to go but I did want to try to clear this part up and offer my apologies.

All the best.

 

[OF]

While I do think that there are less pejorative understandings of that word's meaning, I do apologize as it was not my intention to personally insult you.

I have to go but I did want to try to clear this part up and offer my apologies.

I agree, there are much better words to have used. The base word here is 'genuine' as in honest. "Disingenuous" is the exact opposite......not genuine or honest? An insult.

Apology accepted.

The implication seems to be that we're the assholes and Hopper Labs are the victims. But that is not the case, regardless of the forum's history. Perhaps you feel some unearned guilt for things other people have done on this forum. If so, I'd invite you to shrug off that unearned guilt. And I'd invite you to place guilt where it belongs. In this case, on the shoulders of Hopper Labs.

Please check back. I was responding to the idea of 'why isn't HL here trying to save their reputation?'. My answer is even in a polite Forum like this one they would be savaged, and probably know it by now? Not a realistic hope on our part.

Not defending them at all, just saying why I think they don't rush to this public place to confront angry folks.

OF

 

[mario]

Reading through all this has provided some interesting thoughts.

I think if I was an employee at HL, I wouldn't even bother sending Reps into the forums yet at all. I would zip my lip and just start sending out working products. Then when they can show they have done something, then start sending people in to talk about and answer questions on how they already resolved different issues, not how they plan to resolve, but what they already did. It starts the conversation on the foot of, we didn't do a great job, but we are improving, and here is how. Rather than trying to make promises that we have to take at face value.

For me, I have a number of vapes to fall back on. But nothing checks all my boxes like a Hopper does, so I have one of their most current. Everyone probably thinks this is foolish, but I think the new design is fantastic and it might be the winner we are all looking for. So far I ran my TI Hopper HARD, especially this weekend. I went through like 20 bowls in it, most of them at 4.5 or 5 through water and would charge after each sesh. The thing is still doing fine, and cooking bowls perfectly to a dark brown providing a lot of hits and a solid high each time. (water >4 and native at 3).

So when I was blitzed out of my mind and I got the email about the 420 packages with the extras and what not with the SS unit. Yeah I bought one. Woke up the next morning a little surprised why I did that, but I'm gonna stick to it. I figure then I have two units and I can see if they are as reliable as they claim they are now. More test units I guess. And in the event one fails, I have something to fall back on.

Thankfully I'm in a position to be able to do this, but I understand that most people aren't. And in that case, yes I wouldn't recommend a Hopper.

Anyways I guess what I'm saying is. Despite their past, I've decided to throw myself on the sword and see if they are living up to their word.

 

[LAWTHEONE]

I almost pulled the trigger with they’re 420 sale. Really looking forward to hearing your updates with the newer versions.