Discontinued The Grasshopper

zymos

zymos

Well-Known Member
Don't be sorry, people want to hear about this stuff. Though we'd rather hear about weeks of flawless operation.
Am I wrong in thinking the back end is not supposed to be getting hot, and especially not hotter than the oven? Disturbing that Trevor wouldn't address that.
 
Bass Vaper

Bass Vaper

Well-Known Member
alphabj said:
One thing I have noticed about the GH is you can't really draw slowly through it. They have some way of detecting that you're drawing so that they can auto-shutoff and maintain temperature, but it's not very sensitive. Unless you create a fairly fast draw speed, the GH will shut off while you're drawing. It won't even give you 18 seconds, mine shuts off 13 seconds after the light turns from red to blue if I'm not pulling fast enough. I don't think it even maintains temperature because I don't get much vapor. Once you get a high enough draw speed it's great and provides nice clouds, but I've been doing keef sandwiches and wanted to use a slow draw speed to melt the keef a bit, but since I have to use the high draw speed I end up sucking some right out (so I wouldn't recommend it without a water tool). I was expecting to be able to "sip" vapor out a bit more, but so far the best technique on this device is to rip it pretty hard each time.

EDIT: You do have to maintain the high draw rate throughout the draw. I tried drawing fast the first few seconds then going slow and it still turned it off before I was finished.
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⬆⬆ Fuck.

Did I read that someone put some stems in it? That's hilarious. Reminds me of 7th grade. Thx for sharing.


Edit: I sent an email a couple days ago asking about a ship date (because ankle biting is fun) I got this reply back from Trevor's email address:

"When your order is close to being shipped, we will send you an email to verify your address. This is a good time to start looking for tracking information.

Best,
Caroline"

I just checked the website and my shipping date was moved back to Sept from August. This makes the 4th push back from the original ship date of April.

Not sure what that means, I don't really give a shit about the push back. The shadyness is super annoying though.
 
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OF

OF

Well-Known Member
Bradhend15 said:
So I took my fluke meter and measured the resistance from the back end to the main body. It's reading anywhere from 10-40 ohms of resistance. That not good. I did the same test, with the pen clip (which attaches to the back end) pressed firmly against the main body. Well well, like .18 ohms, and no heat at the back end. So now that's how I use it.
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zymos said:
Am I wrong in thinking the back end is not supposed to be getting hot, and especially not hotter than the oven? Disturbing that Trevor wouldn't address that.
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I agree. While warm might be OK (if it's uniform), hot is a problem. As is an unstable connection (hotter sometimes than others under the same conditions.

A perhaps useful technique is to measure the Voltage drop across the screw connection, rather than the DC resistance (which will be pretty small in most cases). Put the meter on it's lowest DC voltage (probably .2 VFS) and put one probe on the body and one on the end cap and measure at the same time in the cycle to compare connection quality/uniformity.

This drop follows Ohm's Law. When an Amp flows, each miliohm (.001 Ohm) should give a milivolt (.001 Bolts) drop. Since the current is several Amps, the readings will be higher and a comparison under the same current conditions should reflect the contact resistance. Hopefully is consistent and low?

OF
 
grokit

grokit

well-worn member
So this thing is basically heating up on the wrong end because of some kind of a short circuit inefficiency, and we're sticking the other end of it in our mouth and sucking on it. Brilliant! Just wanted to clear that up :freak:
 
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marduk

marduk

daydreamer
Bradhend15 said:
I did the same test, with the pen clip (which attaches to the back end) pressed firmly against the main body. Well well, like .18 ohms, and no heat at the back end. So now that's how I use it. I press the clip against the body.
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Is the clip bendable to the point where it will maintain tight contact against the main body without you having to press it?
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
grokit said:
So this thing is basically heating up on the wrong end because of some kind of a short circuit
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No, not a "short circuit" (unintended connection) but rather poor (intended) connection. The heating is like what happens when you use a cheap (not much copper) extension cord on a bathroom heater.

Short circuits generally mean stuff melting or otherwise failing if there's no fuse to protect. Current (and therefore power) simply 'runs away' without the control normally provided by Ohm's Law (since the resistance goes radically DOWN, not up like we're seeing).

In this case, the heat lost to heating the connection in the threads is sensed by not making enough heat for the load.......so GH simply draws more power from the battery to make up for it. Much like the cruse control in your car burning more gas to maintain speed when you hit a hill. From the outside, the only clues are the heat and shorter battery life, it should make vapor normally I'd think?

OF
 
grokit

grokit

well-worn member
OF said:
No, not a "short circuit" (unintended connection) but rather poor (intended) connection. The heating is like what happens when you use a cheap (not much copper) extension cord on a bathroom heater.

Short circuits generally mean stuff melting or otherwise failing if there's no fuse to protect. Current (and therefore power) simply 'runs away' without the control normally provided by Ohm's Law (since the resistance goes radically DOWN, not up like we're seeing).

In this case, the heat lost to heating the connection in the threads is sensed by not making enough heat for the load.......so GH simply draws more power from the battery to make up for it. Much like the cruse control in your car burning more gas to maintain speed when you hit a hill. From the outside, the only clues are the heat and shorter battery life, it should make vapor normally I'd think?

OF
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Okay thanks; fixed?
grokit said:
So this thing is basically heating up on the wrong end because of some kind of a short circuit inefficiency, and we're sticking the other end of it in our mouth and sucking on it. Brilliant! Just wanted to clear that up :freak:
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Pipes

Pipes

Addicted DIY Enthusiast
Accessory Maker
OF said:
so GH simply draws more power from the battery to make up for it. Much like the cruse control in your car burning more gas to maintain speed when you hit a hill. From the outside, the only clues are the heat and shorter battery life, it should make vapor normally I'd think?

OF
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Not knowing exactly how the GH's electronics work I can only speculate on this. But the fact that there is no third path for temperature feedback, has me thinking they are using the same technology as the ecig guys have deployed. They do not use any temperature sensor but rather use ohm's law to calculate via a known coefficient. The newer devices have the winding made from pure nickel as an element. The element is made to be a specific resistance which is usually around .1 ohm for most ecig TC (temperature controlled) devices. With these known values the temperature can be calculated via software.
I could be completely wrong on how they do it but if correct, any added resistance will not only waste battery power but will cause temperature trouble. No closed loop feedback for temperature?

Just started following this thread for a week or so. The unit sounds intriguing. Seems like it's met for a quick hidden toke.
Turn on, wait 5-10 seconds, take a puff, (or 2) and turn off. Thus, the 18 second timer.?
Definitely will be watching to see how things pan out.
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
Pipes said:
Not knowing exactly how the GH's electronics work I can only speculate on this. But the fact that there is no third path for temperature feedback, has me thinking they are using the same technology as the ecig guys have deployed. They do not use any temperature sensor but rather use ohm's law to calculate via a known coefficient. The newer devices have the winding made from pure nickel as an element.

Just started following this thread for a week or so. The unit sounds intriguing. Seems like it's met for a quick hidden toke.
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Very interesting idea. No, that should be 'Another very interesting idea'.....

The use of Nickle is an obvious one, it has the highest (?) TC of common metals:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-12/temperature-coefficient-resistance/

Ceramics might be a better choice (although more expensive). Fine control would be hard I think, and you'd have to shut heating down to make the measurement most likely but still a possible. However, as you suggest 'lead resistance' (through the threads) will add error as the above site discusses. And this error would vary with changes in thread resistances.

A common scheme in such control circuits is to take a baseline reading before heating to compensate for this, store that number and do calculations based on it in an attempt to get better accuracy. Here that won't work since the heater could already be warm/hot from previous use. And changes in thread resistance would make life very tough......and we can expect thread resistance to vary wildly. When loose, the resistance goes up so it heats a lot quickly. Heating makes the metal expand, improving the contact, lowering the resistance again...... Not stable or repeatable. I can't see how any useful (precision) regulation could happen in such cases. e-cig guys no doubt '4 lead sense' and can live with much less precision (20 degrees error/change is nothing to them, but death in a precision herb vape?).

I think it'll be fun to eventually see how GH functions.

I agree, GH is best for a quick hit or two on the sly, and think most guys agree? Early on it was advertised as the ultimate do all vape, sure to kill off all lesser units. Hours (yes, hours.....) of use from that tiny battery. Many bought into it with intents for a 'daily driver' session vape with occasional party mode use based on those optimistic predictions. Needless to say much of that failed to 'pan out', for reasons pretty clear at this point.

It is, predictably, quite late in delivery. But units are finally making it into Member's hands with at least some reporting good results. IMO there's reason for optimism on this one. Problems exist, and a few are 'showing up' that would have been better addressed earlier on, but issues are also being addressed and hopefully 'put to bed'. I too am watching with considerable interest......and crossed fingers.

Thanks for the fun thoughts, even if it does need a dues paid geek to follow them?

OF
 
FizzNuggets

FizzNuggets

Well-Known Member
Another unit on Reddit bites the dust... between the updates and OBVIOUS problems they are having, this is just turning into a speculation shit show. I feel like if they don't fix this with their current customers before digging for more money from other people, they are proving contrary to their statements saying they want everyone to get a quality vape.

I never remember the early reviewers even mentioning a little heat?? You think buzz and his roommate would have said something after that first video. I trust buzz's reviews but why all of a sudden these problems for production units. Seems like I'm hearing more bad than good, not to mention the bad seems like a catastrophe in the making.

Its been a long ride, and I have just this month lost my faith in these guys. I'm buying another portable and I'm done waiting on my hand warmer to show up..
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
FizzNuggets said:
Seems like I'm hearing more bad than good, not to mention the bad seems like a catastrophe in the making.
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While I understand where you're coming from, I caution you to consider we don't get an objective view of the real 'big picture'. As the saying goes, we get 'lots of self identified malcontents'. We hear mostly problems. In a way it's like asking a cop about marriage or the honesty of people........

Hopefully the GH guys are trying to sort it out and over time things they can fix will be fixed and problems with new units will drop off. There's a 'tipping point' in the process, a balance if you will, where too big a percentage of the resources go to servicing existing owners and production of new units grinds to a halt. The ironic part being those new shipments represent the resources necessary to continue on. Too high a 'rate of returns' can be fatal (and almost always is). It's the way too many small companies meet the grim reaper.

Let's hope it's not as grim as it sometimes appears and that GH makes good choices and pulls it out? IMO beats despair at this point.

OF
 
BaMbAaAChA

BaMbAaAChA

HAKUNA MATATA!!
Christmas photos with grasshoppers under the tree are coming to town !!!


Edit: new units have problems and need open beta testing, not that big of a news there. let the lucky ones that got it early to do the beta testing and let's sit back to wait for our perfect working one in the next couple of months :)

Same shit happened with almost all new vapes thermovape t1 cores failing inhalaters never even power on at delivery or charge at all. Even vapor genie threads was bad cut once ... I do beleve that since they fix the problems and they seem to keep try to improve it even now shows a good team that is aiming for quality !!
 
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FizzNuggets

FizzNuggets

Well-Known Member
@OF, I completely understand but I'd like to think you can still extrapolate some rough numbers from the size group we have, even if only 10% of the hoppers are members here. Not to mention that Reddit failure happened on his second bowl. A few minutes of use, and its dead. I'll pass on that.

I just find it hard to believe that everyone not saying something is having a good experience... speaking of what's the story with @HillaryClinton?

PS. Not despair, I have actually felt fairly positive through most of this.. I'm just tired of it.
[Speculation] Oh and to make September shouldn't they be getting hundreds out the door?[/speculation]
 
phattpiggie

phattpiggie

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
For those who may be struggling with the 'back end' heat issue I have found a diagram, for illustrative purposes only, which may help. I have limited electronics knowledge and may be wrong I am sure that @Pipes or @OF will correct me or even simplify what I am trying to convey. Sorry if it's long winded.

Z1PwaPN.jpg

So the pot or adjuster on the back end has two connections in the Hoppers case. One from the battery and the other from the body.
The Hopper body is the blue line from the pot and on to the heater or bulb as shown here. We will disregard the internal electronics for the sake of simplicity. The body is just being used as a cable. Nothing mystical there and not a new idea most metal flashlights use the same principal. Communicate I think was the word.
The 'back end' is a complex little thing it has to allow an adjustable flow of power and be able to click in and out to switch on and off. If for any reason the connection between the battery and the pot is dirty or has contamination on the wiper inside the pot or the thread which attaches it to the main body then the resistance will be high which in turn will cause it to heat up. Using the clip as part of this return path, blue line, should stop the back end getting as hot as the connection for the flow is better. Less resistance. So if your unit has the back end issue please try pressing the clip, @Bradhend15 style, when you use it and see if it heats it up. Interested to hear of any results.
My experience of this was at a building with a 400 volt supply. I could hear a crackle every now and again and when I looked down into the neutral connection I could see arcing, sparks, and a melted cable. The neutral connection wasn't even tight so a new cable and enough, not too much, pressure on the connection screws soon stopped a potential house fire.
As for the tip heat I am sorry to appear glib but 'no shit sherlock' when I first saw the Hopper my remark was it's going to heat up and heat up a lot.
I wish Trevor and the team all the best and I hope they iron it all out as I do like the idea. As for emailing them you can bet your bottom dollar every time they opened their email accounts their sphincters were twitching so to alleviate that pressure its been passed on to someone else.
 
WoodyWeedPecker

WoodyWeedPecker

Well-Known Member
I've just received an email reply from Trevor at the Grasshopper. Basically, he told me the auto-shut off time was carefully chosen. With a device of such quick heat up time/convection/heat, people prefer to take shorter draws (people in their testings).

I proposed the change because I think it was easy to modify (at no cost), the only drawback (battery life, edit:and heat) would have been when you forget to click it off. Sometimes with my E-Nano my draws last 5 seconds but toward the end of a load I tend to use longer draws because the herb is less potent. Sometimes a good 15-20 seconds. I would have liked to have the freedom to draw as short or as long as possible even if most of my draws would be short ones well below the 18/13 seconds threshold. It was never a big deal for me. Not at all. Having it in hand can indeed change my perpective.

I can't wait to have my Hopper in my hand. This thing look awesome from the few user reviews out thus far.
 
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sundaddy

sundaddy

Well-Known Member
I do the same thing at work. I ask what people where they want to eat lunch, at 10:30 and everyone looks at their watch. I'm sure all of this waiting and anticipating, thins the blood and builds character. :D
 
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sundaddy,
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