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Vaporization temperature dependent selection of effects

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by tdavie, Feb 2, 2010.

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  1. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v4.0a (unstable) Staff Member

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    That would be the boiling point, at which all THCv would be turned into vapour. Vapourization is not a binary process, however. THCv would start to be released as vapour well before reaching that temperature, increasing in quantity as it approaches the boiling point.
     
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  2. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

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    plus, these temps actually reflect a near vacuum (Merck).
    we need to measure vape/boil points at SEA LEVEL, should be quite informative.
     
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  3. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    @pakalolo and @looney2nz - absolutely and even worse...as I dug back into some of the original studies, its mixed. Most pure samples in vacuum, however, some were done at sea level of a standard atmosphere (29.92 " mg).

    Throw all of this into a plant matrix and I truly think all we can do with these tables is identify the basic range of temps to vape at and temps to not go above due to formation of toxic stuff (benzene, I'm thinking in particular).

    I too got very excited when I first saw these tables and had all kinds of ideas for vaping in my head until I dug into it a bit more.
     
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  4. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

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    links to any that use sea level in their tests?
     
  5. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I knew someone would ask. What I did was follow some footnotes to some originating studies and found some using those conditions. I'm not at all sure I book marked it at all but will take a look.
     
  6. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    @looney2nz Ok, hard to find and I think I was referring to some other source, but:

    http://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/2001-03-04-7.pdf

    I'm pretty sure I spent a lot of time back tracking to get to the original study but can't seem to find it (nor have time right now) to dig deeper.

    Here is the study in which that footnote is appended at the end under the boiling point table.

    I agree, most data that I was able to find (at the time) was definitely pure sample under vacuum. Some were at 29.92, almost all sources on the web (summary tables and the like) have no footnotes for sources at all (garbage, IMO).

    Hope this helps.
     
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  7. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

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    thanks! here's the book: https://www.worldcat.org/title/dictionary-of-natural-products/oclc/28221572
    quick look online showed it to be rather pricey!

    I wonder if the guy is still alive and has e-mail? :)
     
  8. JosephClements

    JosephClements New Member

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    There's more hypotheses that I could throw out there, but I'll leave you with this; if you vape your herb at a certain temperature, and then set that herb aside for future use (at a higher teperature) then there are a series of effects that you have removed that should no longer have to be considered when vaping the same weed at a future point.
     
  9. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

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    I'm not so sure about that. I don't think it's as discrete in regards to temperature...
    if you know anything about audio systems, think of this as a filter network or a crossover network for speakers, you have a fixed frequency to crossover at, but the analog filter designs used for this are typically done with upper and lower curves to optimize the frequency response and dispersion characteristics of the speaker drivers. Hopefully the analogy isn't too opaque :(

    If we look at the flower or concentrate as a series of temperature dependent 'knees' in the curve, you'll very likely see that as the temperature approaches the boiling point and it transitions out of solid to fluid and then to vapor I don't believe those transition temperature points are narrow steps, but rather curves (in audio they would be set to a certain slope measured in dB per octave) and ranges where one compound in that temperature range is rising in output, while the previous one is falling... where they meet and how far down that point is determines how much output you will get.

    The other thing to consider is the distribution of the compounds and their boiling points, you can't select them discretely (unless you're getting stuff fractionally distilled). If I'm shooting for THCv @428F, pretty much everything else is coming with it. (which reminds me, has anyone found a distillate that's worth a damn?... the CBD distillate I got the last time was useless (sublingually)).

    We REALLY need to establish some kind of relationship with one or many of the labs to establish our own Sea Level cannabinoid/terpene vapor/boiling points (which will be vastly more usable than the Merck standard) and then that 'FC Standard Cannabis Vapor/Boiling Point-Sea Level' chart will become ubiquitous throughout the marketplace/industry. I'll wager Steep Hill would probably be interested, I dunno about the rest of the CA market or the other states, this kind of info can help transform things.

    ok, brownie kicking in. have to scramble to see if I can find some more clean concentrate and some TRULY organic flower quick... will be out tomorrow :(
     
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  10. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v4.0a (unstable) Staff Member

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    Thanks for the audio analogy. I've never thought about it in those terms, but I think this is a good description of how vapourising actually works. It's a bit too esoteric for general use, though.
     
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  11. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

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    This video was posted the other day, check out the graphing they did on this one, I think it fits closer to what you are talking about.

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
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  12. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

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    it was the quickest analogy I could think of, as that was a field I spent a lot of time in years ago.
    the graph in the video that Inverted posted fits what I was saying.
     
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  13. condor020

    condor020 New Member

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    So if i use only this study for my future vape session, im goin to start at 170C, vape for a bit for getting all the terpenes and enjoy the flavor, and then i may up right away to 193C. Interesting
     
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