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Vaporization temperature dependent selection of effects

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by tdavie, Feb 2, 2010.

  1. tdavie

    tdavie Unconscious Objector

    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    Police State of Canada
    Starting off with this reference http://www.stonerforums.com/lounge/...specific-boiling-point-role-cannabinoids.html

    which I realize has been widely reprinted, mangled and represents boiling points of pure or mostly pure mixtures of compounds, I have started to compile a table listing temperatures in degrees C and F referenced against the effect you can expect by using this temperature when vaporizing. I'll be posting this tomorrow, but will detail some explanations right now.

    The legend is as follows;

    AI=anti inflammatory
    E=Euphoriant
    AN=analgesic
    AE=antiemetic (anti nausea)
    AX=anxiolytic
    AS=antipsychotic
    BD=bronchodilator
    AD=antidepressant
    SE=sedative

    So for example if there is a line in the table that I will post that reads

    180C 356F AE,AD,2AI,AX it means that from the previous temperature gradation of 170 there is a compound or compunds that give each effect. 2AI means that there are 2 compounds listed that give an anti inflammatory effect. This is NOT an exact science, but I was bored at lunch hour today and spent most of an hour compiling a rough table.

    For example, the last three lines of my table will read as follows;

    220C 428F AI,AN,E,SE
    225C 437F SE
    230C 446F SE

    Meaning that if you vaporize at 230C 3 components will be contributing to a sedative effect, one an antiinflammatory effect, one a euphoriant effect and one an analgesic effect. Again, this is NOT an EXACT science, and I merely do this for interest's sake (I am treated for OCD which I hate), and I like charts and graphs.

    But what this should be able to do is allow people who have variable temperature vaporizers to select somewhat of a specific effect that they want (within limits of course). To give a really quick example, if I saved all of the ABV from an Iolite, which has a fixed temperture of 190C and then reused this material in a Volcano or Extreme and set the temperature to 230C, I could reasonably expect more of a sedative couchlock type of effect.

    I should have this posted by 9 pm CST tomorrow. Don't kill me if it is inaccurate. Don't praise me if it works; merely pass it along if you think it is of any value and forget it if you think it's garbage. I could be reading too much into this, but it would or could explain why, when I set my Extreme to 170 (up in 10 degree increments from 140C) all the pain from my my/moderate osteoarthritis disappeared.

    peace

    Tom
     
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  2. tdavie

    tdavie Unconscious Objector

    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    Police State of Canada
    Temperature oC Temperature oF General Effect
    140 284 2AI
    150 302
    160 320 E,2AN,3AI,AE,AX,AS,BD
    170 338 AX,2AN,AS,2AI
    180 356 AE,AD,2AI,AX
    185 365 SE
    190 374 2SE,AD,AX
    200 392
    210 410
    220 428 AI,AN,E,SE
    225 437 SE
    230 446 SE

    As promised, here's the post. Don't read too much into it at the moment, since I'm posting this from work and I'm sure there are corrections to be made. But, in a nutshell if a particular compound had a boiling point of 157C, I attributed it to 160C, since the Extreme that I use can only increment or decrement 5 degrees at a time. I then went and cross referenced each property with each 'assigned' boiling point and put a tick mark in a rough table. When I was finished I was able to enter data for a particular temperature; for example, at 185C there is at least one compound that can contribute a sedative effect. At 140C there are at least 2 compounds that contribute an antiiflammatory effect. There are mistakes in here, I can guarantee that, but I will edit and notate corrections. And yes, vaporization of these compounds emeshed in an organic matrix is not the same as boiling of pure compounds.

    I can offer two general conclusions; if you want an anti inflammatory/analgesic effect, keep your temperatures lower. And if you want a sedative/couchlock effect keep your temperatures higher.

    Some more corrections and opinions to come tonight.

    Tom
     
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  3. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,231
    This is good stuff!

    This will bring into question the validity of every digital temp vape out there with regards to it displaying an accurate bowl temp.
     
  4. tdavie

    tdavie Unconscious Objector

    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    Police State of Canada
    I'm sorry for the formatting. This was written on a Mac running at a resolution of 1920x1200 and this seems to screw things up. I don't know how to attach a file (it's currently in a Word 97-03 format), but I will start to explain how I intend to use this chart (or at the least test and qualify it). My rationalization for trying to obtain an MMAR (in Canada this is referred to as a Medical Marijuana Authorization Release form) is that I have osteoarthritis in my hands/fingers and toes/feet and debilitating panic attacks. So if I want to obtain an effect that will hit the arhtritis, but not make me drowsy or give me couchlock, I would select a vaporization temperature of 170C, or perhaps 180C. At these temperatures there would be 9 compounds released that would have an antiinflammatory effect, and 4 compounds that would have an analgesic effect. Pretty good for me. If I select 180C, I also get release of one anti anxiety compound and one anti depressant compound, both potentially with sedative effects; so if I'm going to be out and about, I would take 170C.

    If I am at home in the evening, or on the weekend and having a panic attack, I would want a greater anti anxiety type of effect, so I would select a vaporization temperature of 190C, by which point there will have been 4 compounds released that will act as anxiolytics (along with all of the other effects that are attached to such a vaporization temperature).

    If it is late in the evening and I want a sedative effect, I would choose a vaporization temperature of 230C (which I know is getting close to combustion and yes the vapor will be harsher), at whicih point 6 compounds will have released that have a sedative effect.

    So, 170, 190 and 230C are my set points. But Tom, what if I want the sedative effects wihtout the anti anxiety effects? Vape at 190C until you no longer get the desired effect, set the ABV aside in a marked container 190 (then you know that it has been used at 190 and below). Saving this type of ABV and then gathering it together and hitting it at 230C should give a pretty strong sedative effect without any other effects.

    What if I want an anti anxiety effect without sedation? I would set the temperature to 180C, which should avoid most of the sedation.

    There's more hypotheses that I could throw out there, but I'll leave you with this; if you vape your herb at a certain temperature, and then set that herb aside for future use (at a higher teperature) then there are a series of effects that you have removed that should no longer have to be considered when vaping the same weed at a future point.

    I'm going to test this out pretty thoroughly on Saturday for an anti arthritis effect, since I expect to be out and about all day. Later that day I am going to take the 170C ABV and use it at a temperature of 230C and take notes on what happens.

    That's all the energy I have to post now. I hope people can get some use out of this. Ask questions if you want and I'll try to help.

    Bottom line; I think that we can separate the effects to an extent.

    Tom
     
  5. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,231
    Tom,
    How did this experiment go? I'm going to start messing around with this in the next couple of weeks myself.
     
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  6. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09

    Messages:
    2,838
    Location:
    Earth
    Very interesting stuff there Tom!! Thanks! Keeping tuned in to this thread.
     
  7. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,231
    I just looked it over and decided I will start at 180C and then save that for later at 230C.

    This leaves all the sleepies for later and only one happy pill in the later batch. That oughtta feel different. I wonder which temp releases the munchies?
     
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  8. quomist

    quomist Rock the Casbah

    Messages:
    261
    Just stumbled on this post for the first time. Real interesting and practical information. Thanks.
     
  9. Howie Feltersnatch

    Howie Feltersnatch Scalawag

    Messages:
    268
    Location:
    South of Eden
    OK, so the way I read this - until you get to 220C or 428F you don't get euphoriant effect?

    I guess I have a problem with that right off the bat.
    I am certainly getting "the goods" with my MyrtleZap and it is a fixed temp (like the PD and WDZ) at somewhere shy of 400F (maybe around 370F).

    I would love to have a reference like this. I understand it is not precise and certainly appreciate your work, but maybe I am reading it wrong? Or did you just leave some out?
     
  10. tuttle

    tuttle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I think you are missing the one liberated at 160c/320f
     
  11. Howie Feltersnatch

    Howie Feltersnatch Scalawag

    Messages:
    268
    Location:
    South of Eden
    LOL, sure as hell did! Thanks for pointing out the snake (ow!)
     
  12. Flyer

    Flyer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    158
    that is beautiful info right there, thanks, lots of work
     
  13. Bruce@Zephyr

    Bruce@Zephyr Vapor Fan Manufacturer

    Messages:
    427
    Location:
    In the Vapors
    Wow, you must have put some time into this.. I will be using your list as I play with my vape today... May need to ad it to the users guide....
     
  14. Raf007

    Raf007 Jed so f... High

    Messages:
    805
    Location:
    Paris, France
    This is so interesting !!
    Thx a lot !

    Especially that a few days ago I kind of did an unwanted experiment with temps.
    I vaped some at around 190, and did not have the time to finish the bowl. So the next morning I decided to vape what was left at 213 , 8 on the cano.
    At the beginning I couldn't really feel the high, but after a few balloons, OMG I felt the sedative effect.... and took a small nap. ;)
     
    Hightened_Mind likes this.
  15. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,231
    Nice Raf!

    I'm gonna move this to the General Vaporization forum and encourage anyone who tries this to post your results.
     
    aamp420 likes this.
  16. Raf007

    Raf007 Jed so f... High

    Messages:
    805
    Location:
    Paris, France
    Good idea, this topic can be really meaningful.
     
  17. tdavie

    tdavie Unconscious Objector

    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    Police State of Canada
    I had the chance to experiment last night with 2 different strains after coming home from dinner. Girlfriend had some green crack left, so I loaded about 0.3g in the cyclone bowl, let it preheat at 200C for 3 minutes, dropped the temperature down to 170C, attached the mini whip/bag and filled a couple bags at that temperature.

    Very analgesic, joint pain totally gone, but very alert, extremely jittery and HIGH. Didn't particularly like this as it caused anxiety. but I vaped my way through it and collected a bag at 190C, and then one at 210C. Felt a lot better, anxiety almost gone, and joint pain nowhere to be seen.

    About 2+ hours later I put around 0.5g of some kind of Kush in the cyclone bowl/mini whip/bag and started collecting bags at 190C Probably collected 5 or 6 bags

    And that was all she wrote. Got knocked on my ass and was a permanent couch fixture until I had to go to bed.

    I am finding that at 170C or less, I get a strong anti pain/antiinflammatory effect. I'm also getting too high, but am learning to deal with it. 190C or above is very good for sedation/anxiety/sleep. 180C seems to be (for me) a dividing line where I can go either way, and then of course the strain plays a big part in it. A strong sativa at a lower tempreature is probably too much for me. Tonight I might try a mix of a satuva and some kush (a .2g mix containing 0.1g of each) at 165 or 170 and see how that goes.

    So in essence, the experimenting is going very fine, and is a hell of a lot of fun tweaking.

    Tom
     
  18. tdavie

    tdavie Unconscious Objector

    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    Police State of Canada
    ------------------------------------------------------------------'
    OK, so the way I read this - until you get to 220C or 428F you don't get euphoriant effect?

    I guess I have a problem with that right off the bat.
    I am certainly getting "the goods" with my MyrtleZap and it is a fixed temp (like the PD and WDZ) at somewhere shy of 400F (maybe around 370F).

    I would love to have a reference like this. I understand it is not precise and certainly appreciate your work, but maybe I am reading it wrong? Or did you just leave some out?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    ^------------------- screwed up the quoting, sorry-----


    Nah that's just the formatting not working out cause I have my macbook set to an insane resolution and it's messing up the presentation of my word documents. Sorry. There is an 'E' in there at 160C, it's just kinda hard to read.

    And yeah, you do get the goods at a lower temperature than 220C for sure. I've gotten so baked on my Iolite (190C) that I forgot how to turn it off (yikes).

    It is very imprecise, but if I want to separate the anti pain/euphoriant high from the anti anxiety/sedative high, I vape at low temperature (170C), let my girlfriend vape a couple of bags at 180 and 190C, and then put the vaped weed aside for later use at 200m 210 or 220C. I'm starting to collect a lot of scintillation vials labelled with different temperatures. Once I was able to take about 0.2g of weed that had a number of bags drawn off of it at 180C or less, and use it at 210C and fell asleep almost immediately and slept for 7 hours straight (unusual for me).

    Tom
     
  19. Konrad_Zuse

    Konrad_Zuse New Member

    Messages:
    380
    Nice chart. I would love to see a chart listing what cannabanoids vape at what temps, and by doing so hopefully find out which cannabanoid causes each effect, if they don't have a chart already of course.
     
  20. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,231
    ^^^
    check his link to stonerforums and it s there. this chart is tdavie's summary of that information.
     
  21. dirtyreyes

    dirtyreyes Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9
    This is very interesting! I have a Volcano Classic and I have definitely noticed that at higher temps there is a lot more of a sedative effect. I wish I had gotten the Volcano Digital now so that I could have better control of the temps.
     
  22. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09

    Messages:
    2,838
    Location:
    Earth
    Hey Dirty!! Yes the higher temps do have good properties. Another way you can re-coup the higher range stuff would be to make a swamp water tincture with your lower temp ABV. There's a thread on it here and it works very well for the sedative effect :)

    Oh and welcome to FC :D
     
  23. dirtyreyes

    dirtyreyes Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9
    Thanks, Lo. What I plan on doing is loading up the chamber with some fresh stuff when I get home from work. Then I can do bags at low temps (5 or 6) until I don't feel like I'm getting anything (or I'm too blitzed to remember that there are bags to fill). I'll stir and do the rest at a higher temp (8 or 9) before bed so I sleep like a baby.
     
  24. steiner666

    steiner666 Serial vapist

    Messages:
    1,046
    Location:
    Lost in the clouds
    Yup, this is what I do, except not with a bag vape of course. Vaping stuff from green-->tan during the day makes me feel nice and :D, and then tan-->brown helps put me down at night :ko:
     
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  25. audiodelic

    audiodelic Holy Herb ... Boom Shiva !

    Messages:
    194
    Location:
    Shiva's India
    Nice read ....

    what about a vaporizer like da buddha? Does anyone have an approximate temperature scale of the knob from start point to alll the way up.
    so that we can have some kind of reference as to where to set the knob at to get approximately close to a particular temperature ?
     

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