Discontinued Thermovape Cera (Original thread, closed because of chaos)

[Haywood]

...I have already destroyed three batteries, but it's the only way I can get the Evo to work to my satisfaction. I tried the thumb switch using many different methods, and I could never get any better than a wispy hit or two. It came down to necessity, which is why I only use the Evo for concerts and such. I want to like the vape, but it just doesn't work the way I need it to...

I couldn't get my Evo to work worth a damn either, until I just put a mouthpiece directly into the top of the core cylinder instead of via the Delrin insulating sleeve. My Evo has worked great since then. Have you tried using your Evo that way? (And if you find you prefer using the Evo that way, consider using a "UFO" mouthpiece, which will prevent any particulate matter getting into your mouth, at the cost of making the load size smaller due to the space the UFO takes).

 

[TheDudeNextDoor]

[quote="TheDudeNextDoor, post: 295307, member: 7898"...I have already destroyed three batteries, but it's the only way I can get the Evo to work to my satisfaction. I tried the thumb switch using many different methods, and I could never get any better than a wispy hit or two. It came down to necessity, which is why I only use the Evo for concerts and such. I want to like the vape, but it just doesn't work the way I need it to...

I couldn't get my Evo to work worth a damn either, until I just put a mouthpiece directly into the top of the core cylinder instead of via the Delrin insulating sleeve. My Evo has worked great since then. Have you tried using your Evo that way?

Actually, yes, I did that mod also. I still need to run the batt during the full session to get satisfying hits, though. It made the hits better, but it didn't fix the the switch problem for me.

 

[flynn]

I think this can be stealthier than the puffit too- add one of these on top of it when it's not in use:

EDIT: Get one that runs on 18650s and make an adapter!

now THIS is a novel idea!!!!

 

[jambandphan03]

You can get a flashlight top that is already threaded for 510 here: http://vapormoon.com/Saber_Flashlight.html
it's a low clearance on the 510 threading, I had to add a 510-510 extention/adapter to make it fit w/ my TV liquid/oil adapter interface, but it works, and looks nice on there.

 

[Dreamerr]

That is just to kewl. It should come with it hehe. That is stealthy no matter how you slice it.

 

[doniv]

So this is what I've inferred from the above photo so far.

The design is similar to a flashlight in the way the components fit together. The heater core is where the flashlight's bulb would be. The airflow is the key bit here for ensuring proper convection. As I see it, there's a primary air path and a secondary one.

The primary one feeds into the bottom of the heater core and is drawn in from the small holes in the bottom of the bowl into the herb chamber. This air is being taken in through the side of the body and will carry the vaporized elements that we will breathe.

The secondary air path is from the notches at the top of the bowl and the holes on the sides of the nozzle. This is drawing in cool air from the outside. This mixes with the hot air coming up from the herb chamber and makes sure that the mixed air is cool enough for us to draw in without irritation.

Due to the secondary air path, the nozzle can be as short as it is since it doesn't need the length that other vaporizers use to cool off the air before it reaches our lungs. This is particularly advantageous since it ensures that less vapor is lost due to deposition on inside walls and there is less to clean as well; not to mention the reduced size.

Those gaskets seem to be made of rubber and those would be consumables. That's not too hot IMO. And the gaskets are all that's holding the top and the main body together. Notice that there's no thread on the ceramic. Opening and closing the unit for reloading won't be super smooth - there's a good possibility of spilling the load all over the place if one pulls too hard. I think it would also be possible to lose a load in the pockets once the gaskets are past their prime.

The switch looks purely mechanical. It seems to be controlling the +ve by providing a contact path between the battery and the bottom of the heater core. The heater core screws into a metal base that has grooves for the air. This metal base should logically be the -ve current path.

The design looks very simple (which is a good thing in my book) and looks easy to clean. I think just some ISO dabs would make this baby look as good as new. I would have preferred that the top of the unit screw into the main body but I'm guessing doing that with ceramics is not particularly easy.

I also don't know (due to my extremely limited knowledge of vaporizers) whether the heater core can be separated from the herb chamber for easy cleaning of the chamber.

Can't wait to see more close up pics and some videos of this baby in action!

 

[OF]

The secondary air path is from the notches at the top of the bowl and the holes on the sides of the nozzle. This is drawing in cool air from the outside. This mixes with the hot air coming up from the herb chamber and makes sure that the mixed air is cool enough for us to draw in without irritation.

Howdy, welcome to the fun.

I think most of what you're thinking is right. However, there is no 'secondary air path'. What you're discussing above is how the vapor gets out of the bowl and into you, not how cold air gets in. There is no thru hole in the center of the mouthpiece. After going through the core and up through the load the vapor goes out the slots in the edge above the second o-ring on the core making a right angle turn. It then does a 180 degree turn back toward the center of the mouthpiece where it takes a final right angle turn up. 360 degrees in all, same as the 'UFO' they currently use in several of their products. In the process debris gets filtered out of the airpath so screens are not needed (nor are they there to jam up). FWIW the only vape I know where outside air is intentionally mixed in is Vapman. None of the other TV products do this, it's doubtful they would change a winning design IMO.

While you can wipe it down, it's porous (I think) and therefore will likely not wipe all that clean. Rather it's intended to be soaked in ISO or even boiled to clean as the current products are.

I suspect the switch and battery are not considered 'boilable' (same as the current products) but there's probably no need to. It's not clear to me how the core is attached, but in the current design the heater and bowl are one piece, pressed together with some tooling and a small arbor press. You simply boil or soak the lot. It's all ceramic and metal.

The o-rings (3 total, there's another between the MP and cap) are most likely not intended to be consumables, the current products don't treat them as such. No spares are provided for them for that reason. Given proper fit (I think a given?) and some care they should last a very long time.

Anyway, welcome to the fun, it seems you've come at an interesting time.

OF

 

[Futuretvowner]

Can't wait to see the Cera's vapor production compared to the T1.

 

[doniv]

Howdy, welcome to the fun.
I think most of what you're thinking is right. However, there is no 'secondary air path'. What you're discussing above is how the vapor gets out of the bowl and into you, not how cold air gets in. There is no thru hole in the center of the mouthpiece. After going through the core and up through the load the vapor goes out the slots in the edge above the second o-ring on the core making a right angle turn. It then does a 180 degree turn back toward the center of the mouthpiece where it takes a final right angle turn up. 360 degrees in all, same as the 'UFO' they currently use in several of their products. In the process debris gets filtered out of the airpath so screens are not needed (nor are they there to jam up). FWIW the only vape I know where outside air is intentionally mixed in is Vapman. None of the other TV products do this, it's doubtful they would change a winning design IMO.

You are bang on! The presence of the gaskets mean that there would not be a way for the nozzle to pull in air from the outside! That bit was nagging at me and it seems I shot off too soon

Howdy, welcome to the fun.
While you can wipe it down, it's porous (I think) and therefore will likely not wipe all that clean. Rather it's intended to be soaked in ISO or even boiled to clean as the current products are.

The close up shots show that the finish is quite smooth, so a wipe-down should hopefully suffice. But soaking and boiling would be definitely possible given they are ceramic. I think the gaskets will need to be removed before any of that is done.

Howdy, welcome to the fun.
I suspect the switch and battery are not considered 'boilable' (same as the current products) but there's probably no need to. It's not clear to me how the core is attached, but in the current design the heater and bowl are one piece, pressed together with some tooling and a small arbor press. You simply boil or soak the lot. It's all ceramic and metal.

This ease of cleaning is what I like about the TV products. Where I come from, chillums are very popular and there's a cleaning process done after *each* load is used. But all that's in the past ever since I learnt about vaporizing.

Howdy, welcome to the fun.
The o-rings (3 total, there's another between the MP and cap) are most likely not intended to be consumables, the current products don't treat them as such. No spares are provided for them for that reason. Given proper fit (I think a given?) and some care they should last a very long time.


Anyway, welcome to the fun, it seems you've come at an interesting time.

Hope the gaskets stay for a long long time. Yea, I've come just in time for my first vaporizer!

 

[natural farmer]

While you can wipe it down, it's porous (I think) and therefore will likely not wipe all that clean.

Something tells me that this new special, extra strong, extra hard ceramic won't be very porous. If that's the case it will be just brilliant! A wipe with some paper while it's hot and it will be good as new!

EDIT: @doniv, you got me there, lol

 

[doniv]

And since no one's really christened this baby with a new acronym yet, may I suggest TVC?

 

[natural farmer]

I think just Cera is nice... It gives it a female form in the mind... Not just another acronym. My two cents...

 

[Dreamerr]

Name it dreamerr

 

[jambandphan03]

ah hell, I keep finding myself visitng the Cera webpage... dang it!!

 

[JoeKickass]

I like the look of this vape but I'm pretty sure I remember people saying the T1 had terrible battery life, like 1-2 bowls per set of batteries. The Cera could have 5x the battery capacity and still only do 5 bowls a charge... meaning it would have to be priced to compete with the Pax and Inh?

 

[OF]

The close up shots show that the finish is quite smooth, so a wipe-down should hopefully suffice. But soaking and boiling would be definitely possible given they are ceramic. I think the gaskets will need to be removed before any of that is done.

Something tells me that this new special, extra strong, extra hard ceramic won't be very porous. If that's the case it will be just brilliant! A wipe with some paper while it's hot and it will be good as new!

We're just guessing, of course, but my bet is this is not a glazed china deal here, smooth but not perfect and easily able to stain. I think there will be places in the air path (like inside the mouthpiece) which will be pretty hard to wipe clean even if the surface is glazed. My guess is guys will be soaking and boiling them to clean, some more routinely than others. Just like the current ones. I'm sure that's part of the design consideration, the whole point of an 'all glass vapor path' is the ability to get it squeaky clean. Well most of the point anyway.

The rings should stay on I think. That is I don't advise guys pull them routinely, both the rings and the grooves they sit in would suffer I'd think. There's no need to anyway, any more than the current ones need to be removed, working temperature is much higher than boiling water and a material that's OK with ISO is easy to do at the same time. Well not easy, but easy enough.

That's my guess. Much like the current one, only better.

The Cera could have 5x the battery capacity and still only do 5 bowls a charge... meaning it would have to be priced to compete with the Pax and Inh?

If the five times number is real (and I've no reason to think otherwise) and that's not enough for your needs, change the battery. At ten or so bucks each you should be able to power through all the bowls you want 'non stop'.

I guess I never connected 'bowls per charge' with price. I'm not even sure they're competitors in many ways, yes all are small silent battery powered vapes. But this one's a 'manual straight convection' vape suitable for grabbing a quick toke or two, the others don't seem to be that. They, OTOH offer 'automatic vaping'. I think guys will buy based on that not bowl count. And those with serious bowl count needs will probably be drawn to this guy for exactly that reason (removable battery)?

OF

 

[Futuretvowner]

I think it's fairly obvious at this point that you already know most of the information about this vape, OF, so can you please just fill us all in? You are like that kid who finds out a big secret before everyone else and then goes around hinting at what it is.

 

[OF]

I think it's fairly obvious at this point that you already know most of the information about this vape, OF, so can you please just fill us all in? You are like that kid who finds out a big secret before everyone else and then goes around hinting at what it is.

No, I'm sorry I can't. Or I would.

What seems obvious to you is wrong. I have no inside information or conjecture past what I've posted here. I'm guessing like everyone else. You're just plain wrong when you accuse me of being dishonest. I am not a shill for TV. Believe it or not. I have no stake in them, or their efforts, past being a customer. I in no way profit financially from what I do here.

I am not taunting anyone with secret information and resent the implication.

OF

 

[Tweek]

I think just Cera is nice... It gives it a female form in the mind... Not just another acronym. My two cents...

No matter how hard I try, it keeps reminding me of Michael Cera....

 

[Bob Loblaw]

so from this pic, i am gonna infer that the base of the "bowl" area has metal threading and that this threading is 510, just like the rest of TV products. that said, hopefully it will be modular with previous units. my worry is that they are using a 18650, which i know won't fit into a normal TV unit. hmmmm

 

[pakalolo]

Honestly at this point I don't read anything you say because it is so blatantly obvious that you will defend the company to no end. I REALLY think mods should list you as associated with the company because at this point you are. You have stated that you have tested their new products so you do have a vested interest in the company. For all of your thousands of posts in all of the thermovape threads you have never said one negative thing about any of their products. It is strange that whenever I see someone post anything negative at all you are the first person to post a defensive response like you are being personally attacked. I'm not the first one to notice this.

Please mods don't take this as an attack but can you please take a closer look into the relationship of OF and Thermovape.

Thanks- FTO

We don't investigate members. OF has said he is not an employee of Thermovape and we have no reason to doubt that. He has explained his relationship to Thermovape in other posts, usually at your insistence, and he has been open about it.

Being a beta tester doesn't disqualify anyone from commenting. It does not mean you have a vested interest in the company. There is no obligation to reveal that you are a beta tester. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Many of us, including me, have been beta testers for various companies. Beta tests almost always involve non-disclosure agreements, often extending beyond the beta test period.

If OF doesn't want to make negative comments about a device, there is no reason that he has to. If he wants to be a cheerleader for Thermovape--not implying that he is--there's nothing to stop him. We have a lot of cheerleaders for various products on FC. Most of us have no trouble picking them out and filtering their posts accordingly.

I think it's fairly obvious at this point that you already know most of the information about this vape, OF, so can you please just fill us all in? You are like that kid who finds out a big secret before everyone else and then goes around hinting at what it is.

You clearly have an obsession with OF and his relationship to Thermovape. This got you into trouble before and if you post further along this line, it will get you in trouble again. Posts questioning another person's character are inappropriate.

 

[Futuretvowner]

You clearly have an obsession with OF and his relationship to Thermovape. This got you into trouble before and if you post further along this line, it will get you in trouble again. Posts questioning another person's character are inappropriate.

Honestly I'm not in Grade school please don't speak to me in that condescending tone. And it's not like I'm the only one who feels this way. Maybe I would have dropped it if I hadn't received numerous PM's from people agreeing with me about OF.

Thanks- FTO

 

[Mynameismud]

Yeah i had a question about battery life as well, never got the T1 cause i read batteries only lasted about 20 mins, does 500% inc mean that it should last a little less then an hour and a half now? I dont like using bowls as a time reference because sometimes a bowl lasts me 5 minutes and other times i can go for 20-30

 

[Futuretvowner]

Yeah i had a question about battery life as well, never got the T1 cause i read batteries only lasted about 20 mins, does 500% inc mean that it should last a little less then an hour and a half now? I dont like using bowls as a time reference because sometimes a bowl lasts me 5 minutes and other times i can go for 20-30

With the T1 you had to go by hits in terms of battery life because it is a device where you manually heat up for each individual hit by holding up a switch. The T1 batteries would give you anywhere from 6-10 hits per bowl. Now with the increased battery life you will probably get around 30-50 hits per set of battery. If I had to guess you will now be able to vape anywhere from 2 to 4 bowls on a single set of batteries.

To answer your question directly the battery will last you however long it takes to take 30-50 hits.

 

[OF]

Yeah i had a question about battery life as well, never got the T1 cause i read batteries only lasted about 20 mins, does 500% inc mean that it should last a little less then an hour and a half now? I dont like using bowls as a time reference because sometimes a bowl lasts me 5 minutes and other times i can go for 20-30

I completely agree, it's a lousy measure. There is no 'standard bowl' to use. Moist herb robs battery to dry. Fine grind releases vapor faster. Guys run at different temperatures (through timing and heat control) and vape to different levels of 'doneness'. You and I can get radically different results with the exact same unit and batteries. At best it's only a guideline.

For instance, I have a Puffit which is another unit with battery capacity issues. Most guys get 'a bowl or two'. I grind fine so I probably get more mass of herb in (needing more power) and sometimes sit in the garden leisurely 'working on a bowl'. Typically a quarter gram. I'll milk that sucker down until it looks more like coffee than herb coming out when the urge takes me. Running out of juice (sorry for yet another technical term) happens to me then as often as not.

Similar problems came up with the 'I don't get 50 hits from Evolution' debate. If you were with us for that adventure we finally decided on a 'standard hit' of sorts that had to do with no herb but going a fixed time (25 seconds IIRC) after the core came to 'full brightness' each hit and waiting a standard time (20 seconds?) after one hit before starting heat for the next. And we did it with no insulating cover (giving us a lower count you'd think). We decided 30 was probably a more reasonable number there IIRC.

Here we have just the claims of TV to go on. Fortunately we have some numbers to work with but lots will be tied up in stuff like losses that they alone know it seems since nobody else was involved in Prototype testing. We know they are introducing some new wizz bang battery using some (US made???) protection circuit, or at least that's what I recall from somewhere. This is an 18650, I think it's fair to assume it's twice the mAh rating or more than the originals. Using the RCR123A model (about 500 mAh at 6 Volts for realistic numbers) that's 3 Watt hours. Good Li-ion 18650s are over 3000 mAh at 3.7 Volts for 11 Watt hours, a bit over two times (even 3), very useful improvement. Maybe half the 'five times'?

However, we're also probably going to benefit from lower losses due to better insulation and lower 'thermal conductivity' (a different way of looking at the same sort of thing) meaning that using ceramics where aluminum was used before means the precious heat is being 'wicked away' slower and therefore builds faster for the same power level. We of course can only guess at this factor, and they may have 'throttled back' the heater some to take advantage of this which also shifts things. IMO another two fold increase in efficiency may be here as well giving us at total five times.

My take is if there was 'just barely enough' capacity (as many of us see it), now we can have 'a great plenty'. If it was 'nearly useless sometimes', those times will no longer happen. For those who found it 'not nearly enough' it might not be enough (still) to satisfy them. It's in the nature of the beast.

Making DR happy is a commendable goal, but might not be possible even still........

However, and I think this is a big however most guys miss or don't give full credit to, batteries interchange quickly. It's like being able to pull into a gas station and fill your tank in a few minutes against an electric car that needs an overnight battery charge to continue the journey. In that analogy driving a SUV with lousy gas mileage really only costs you mere money (to tank up), you can still do as many miles in a day as the guy driving the hybrid.

That is my guess is we'll be changing batteries much less often, but can still run a few 'ten dollar batteries' (another guess) through it to get as many hits as we have 'stash to burn'?

Time will tell. Soon Forum Members will have Beta units (by definition the intended production configuration) to test in the real world. Past a kind of subjective 'I get X times more hits per charge (I think....)' I'm just not sure how much that will transfer to your individual experience. But hopefully we'll have more information to consider.

OF