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The Magic-Flight Box

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by magicflight, May 16, 2009.

  1. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    @1flyfisher: From your descriptions, I think you might be one of the rare MFLB users who draw too slowly or too lightly. Try increasing your draw strength a bit to see what effect that has.
     
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  2. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,891
    Location:
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    Excellent point, while the opposite (pulling too much cold air in too fast) is the usual, too slow can also be a problem.

    With a fresh load you can usually see vapor collecting and condensing some through the cover or up the draw hole. Kind of like a little fog bank. A useful technique might be to look for that to happen before sipping it away? Don't draw at all until there's visible vapor? And it's only going to work at first, once the water and lighter fractions are gone the vapor gets harder and harder to see.

    OF
     
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  3. 1flyfisher

    1flyfisher Member

    Messages:
    59
    Thanks for the reply.
    Yeah I know it is hard to describe temperature. I like the long slow draw off the box. I try and keep it cool and take longs slow draws for about 30 seconds.



    Thanks,
    I will try that. I mix it up basically. Mostly long slow draws off the box 90% of the time. Sometimes sips. Sometimes a little of both. The most consistent best seems to be long slow draw as MF suggests. I am going to keep track of my hits. ie the number of hits I get how long my hits are. and when the load is spent. This way I can come to a better conclusion. I will do this with my next session.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2014
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  4. skippy

    skippy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    Australia.
    Yea I totally agree. I didn't indulge for six weeks from when I gave up combusting to when I first used the MFLB as I needed to drop the habit of mixing herb with tobacco. I was so pleased the first time I used it as I realised I could indulge in my favourite herb without combusting and really enjoy it. I tried a vape a couple of times before this and thought they were useless as I'd combusted before hand and wanted to " see the vapour" and didn't. My tip to anyone taking up vaping is to totally stop combusting for a reasonable period before hand, I had to do it for health reasons so for me being able to still enjoy herb via a vape made me very happy.
     
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  5. 1flyfisher

    1flyfisher Member

    Messages:
    59
    Here's some of what I like and don't like so far.

    I like the effects of the MFLB. But There just isn't enough draws before it goes blah.
    Some <claim> they get twenty draws with effects....I would like to know how. The taste can get bad quick.
    The stealth is great. I can do this anywhere. It isn't as stealthy as an e-pen but is there an e-pen that works good? If there is I will buy it. You can hit this thing right in the park or among crowds. You could hit this right in a bar or a football game or baseball game. I would not hesitate to sip this guy right on the patio of a bar or at some event around the city.
    You have to carry around a little brush if you want to go out for a day and do multiple trenches. After 2 trenches you have to brush it out.
    I hate the batteries. Juggling 6 batteries is becoming a pain in the ass. I am wondering what the fuck I am going to do when I go flyfishing for 2-3 weeks.Now I have to try and find a battery case so I don't have to have them rolling around in my pocket. I need at least two batteries for an evening or a concert.
    If anyone knows of where I can get a 2 batterry AA case let me know.
    I do not like having to add accessories and spend more $$$.
    I paid $10 for 4 duracell Batteries so far and $25 for the finishing grinder. The PA is like another $70 and then another $12 for the oil tray. That sucks.
    For what you start our paying it is ok. But if you have to buy, batteries, and chargers, and PA and oil tray, and battery cases etc. It adds up and becomes costly.
    They need to include a carrying case for everything so you can actually use this thing.
    And they need some rubber bands or some cool velcro wrap to keep it from opening up.
    An entire carrying case of some sort is a must. I don't want to be partying and have batteries flopping around and a brush loose in my pocket. A small soft case for 2 batteries the brush that can fit in your pocket should be included.
    The finishing grinder by the way works great and grinds the herbs as fine as can be done. I highly recommend one if you like your MFLB. If you do not have one get one. I grind once in a cromium crusher than the finishing grinder. I don't mind grinding twice but that is also an issue as it just makes for more work and fiddling around with my herbs. The herb I have; one grind and it is beautiful fluffy quality and smokes great. Having to dry it out and grind it to salt/pepper grain size is some what of a pain especially when one grind produces such perfect quality for twisting up a fatty.
    This MFLB can be a little difficult in the dark. Loading it with not over loading it in the dark isn't very doable. It was a bit dark and I couldn't tell if the load was in the trench correctly. I just had to go on trust. I am often paddling my kayak an hour before the sun comes up so dark conditions I need something that works. I'd say the MFLB isn't the best in the dark unless you pre load it. then just shake it level and hope it is all in place. I like to be able to look at it and make sure. Not a deal breaker but not a positive for me.
    This thing is very finicky. I have been testing it and there is a lot of variables and inconsistency in performance.

    All in all I think it has some pluses and some minuses which it seems most vapes do have.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
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  6. mplx

    mplx Active Member

    Messages:
    35
    Hi flyfisher

    I started using the FB about 2 months ago and i recognize some of your points. I`m from Holland so my weed is from the coffeeshop and my outdoor homegrown is still not dry enough. The shopweed is a+ quality but i won`t get 20 hits from it.
    With a PA it`s eassier and you could get 40 hits if you like without combusting but normally i get something like this:

    PA@35~40%
    1st hit: 100% taste 100%effect <10% clouds
    2nd:90/95/20
    3rd:80/90/35
    4th:70/70/50
    ................
    10th:10/20/90
    12th:5(popcorn)/10/>90

    Then i empty the box, brush, burn100%@PA, brush again and reload
    So yes you can get 20 hits , but the last ones are just hot popcorn and do have some effect, but not much. Sometimes after 12 hits i`m high enough so i don`t want to refill , but also i don`t want to waste what`s in the box so i turn op the PA to >50~60% and do another short 6 hits. And yes i can notice there was still some effect in it.

    In the beginning i took long slow hits. Now i take short hits in a row, so i still push the button wait till temps are fine and take another short hit (I never smoked a pipe but my grandpa did, i think it`s comparable to smoking pipe like an old man:lol:). When it`s starting to tickle my throat i feel that i inhaled enough vape and i inhale some extra fresh air. Wait about 6~7 seconds and exhale. THEN i see clouds :nod: I tried that with the batteries but it`s harder because the temps are changing more.

    But sometimes i get a "just hot air" hit too, dunno what went wrong. Shake and next hit is fine:tup:
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
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  7. caves

    caves Living the vape life

    Messages:
    63
    Just wanted to address these points of your post. First off, I'd say that a claim of 20 or more draws is fairly typical when the box is used as intended. Everyone I know in real life with a launch box (and I'm sure many of the forum-goers here) is able to get a relatively high number of draws from a single trench. Your experience of 3-4 draws and then awful taste is the exception, not the norm. The only way the taste gets bad for me before reaching that ~20th draw is if I give it a little too much battery and blacken some of the material. Ideally, you want no black at all in your finished ABV. If you have any black bits, try to ease off the battery. Pulsing (using the battery until the temperature is enough to vape and then letting off so it can cool back down) can work better than a steady input, and it can be quite easy to char your material if you're overzealous with the battery. If the temperature of vapor starts jumping up, you'll want to slightly increase your draw rate and stop engaging the battery as soon as possible. You'll want to cut out power before it gets to a similar temperature as combustion. Try sticking your tongue in front of the vapor path and feeling it out. Once it becomes uncomfortable you want to back off.
    Could you upload a picture of what one of your finished loads looks like? It could help diagnose the problem, because a properly done trench should last a good long while.

    For sure the MFLB is tougher to use in the dark. Instead of looking at the trench, you have to do everything based on taste and feel. Once you're acclimated to how your own personal box works, though, running it without much light becomes doable. I personally have had many successful, long seshes outside at night. After a while using the box becomes second nature.

    And yes, the box is certainly finicky and certainly has a lot of variables to worry about. The box is consistent, though, and in most cases inconsistencies will be mostly due to user input. You have to pay a lot of attention to it, learn all the ins and outs of your own box, and take care of it. It's certainly a vape that benefits from spending a lot of one-on-one time with it. If you're willing to stick it out and learn your box, you may come to appreciate it in a much greater way.
     
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  8. 1flyfisher

    1flyfisher Member

    Messages:
    59
    Thanks for the info. Also a major factor is the length of the hits. That is a key variable. I timed my hits and my longest are like 45 seconds. I watched a video and the dude from MF took two hits demonstrating the batteries and each hit was 15 seconds. SO my hits are 3 times as long. that may very well explain why I get around 4 hits and someone else gets 12 hits.

    Hello,
    I posted a pic of my abv above. Please take a look and tell me what you think. It is still greenish looking to me but at this point is starting to taste a little nasty. I think that was about 4 hits on that abv or perhaps a few more. I never combust. I don't even get close to combusting before I get a foul taste. Also I have some of the smoothest best tasting nor cal medicinal so that is not the problem with flavor. Like I said my first 3 hits are fine and actually taste great but it is down hill from there. Yes I do put my tongue in front of it as a temperature guage and don't let it get too hot.
    The hard part about it in the dark is shaking it back into the trench without being able to see if you got it in there correctly. I hold it level and tap it. That is the best you can hope for.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2014
  9. caves

    caves Living the vape life

    Messages:
    63
    All of the images you've posted are showing up as Photobucket's placeholder thumbnail for missing images. Your browser must still have them cached so they show up for you. I'd suggest re-uploading them to imgur instead.
    [​IMG]

    I've always been more of a tapper than a shaker. Quick, consistent taps on the side or bottom of the box combined with tilting the box at various angles lets you do everything; dislodge stuck material, cycle the contents of the trench from top to bottom, settle the material, etc. I haven't heard much of anyone else using this technique and can upload a quick video to clarify. You need two hands but I'm convinced it's a more thorough toss, and it keeps material from sitting above the rails. When tossing you have to make absolutely sure that nothing is stuck to the screen and that the contents have been tumbled. If material stays in one spot for too long it'll char and ruin the taste. Get in there with the brush if you have to.
     
  10. 1flyfisher

    1flyfisher Member

    Messages:
    59
  11. Ano

    Ano FC Lover

    Messages:
    223
    My guess is your draws are too long, resulting in the bottom of the trench becoming dark too soon. The same surface of your load being in continuous contact with the heating screen for 45 seconds, while the rest of the trench is cooking slower, results in an uneven vaporization.

    When you shake your box it mixes the load a bit, but some of the same material will stay on the bottom (mostly the finest particles). If you heat that once again for a bit too long, I think that is what's causing the bad taste too soon, while there are still some goodies left in your load.

    My ABV is way darker than your picture, but the darkest parts of mine are still lighter than the darkest parts of yours.


    Again that's all personal opinion, but I suggest you take shorter hits to be able to shake more often.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
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  12. KidFated.

    KidFated. Watch your pawking metaws.

    Messages:
    1,666
    Location:
    minnesota
    This exactly X2
     
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  13. 1flyfisher

    1flyfisher Member

    Messages:
    59
    My draws may be too long. I am trying shorter draws and sipping right now. When I shake my MFLB nothing sticks to the bottom of the screen. I get everything loose. I will try shorter hits. I think 20-30 seconds should be enough. I will time it.
     
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  14. smokemirror

    smokemirror Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    25
    I got some nasty buildup under the screen, when i'm using the box with the PA the stuff is going to bubble and smoke...

    [​IMG]

    Can I clean this?
     
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  15. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,891
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Not really. Some have had some luck with wires and such, others have wrecked their boxes trying. Solvents are out.

    Our very own Pak came up with the best idea IMO, he stands it on end (I think with the stem on) when warm so over time it flows down and out the hole. IIRC he props it up on something?

    The real solution is not getting the buildup in the first place. It seems it's the result of too much moisture in the load going in. Water condenses at the cooler (under 212F) surfaces below the mesh and starts the mess growing. My guess is by trapping waxes and stuff? Anyway, keep it very dry going in and you can vape very large quantities without such buildup.

    Best wishes.

    OF
     
  16. paytonpenn

    paytonpenn Level 30 Nature/Healer

    Messages:
    1,136
    You can scrape it (not recommended, its not that effiecient), I have done some pretty long dry runs and have had the gunk under my screen stop producing excess vapor but my MFLB tasted like resin and required preheating before I could draw.

    Looks like you used a lot of moist herb through it or combusted, either way I personally feel its time to be warrantied.

    Same for you @1flyfisher I've gone through some nasty MFLBs, I've been extremely cautious of my newest ones. If the taste is fine to you or if the vapor is good in your opinion, don't warranty yet. But if I held the button for more than 10 seconds it should've already combusted. That comparison tells me that you're only inconveniencing yourself using a box like that. I was ecstatic as I regained loved for my MFLB once I realized it was my box functioning and tasting poorly. I will never let moist herb through the box or users hold the button for more than 8 seconds.
     
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  17. snamuh

    snamuh Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    I have used my box off and on over the past 3 years... I got the PA awhile back and recently started using the box again. I noticed that it has a very wooden taste. I used it with a water pipe powered at about 60-75% and it tasted like pure burning wood.

    Using the pa at a lower setting helped.... I was using the pa at 75% now I use it at 25-60%...

    The wood under my trench is black from either combusting, resin, or both... I wonder how much that is effecting the taste.

    Would the walnut box have a different taste? I have a small folding wooden pipe that tastes great even though I'm combusting.

    I am wondering I should warranty...

    Maybe. I will get photos on here of it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2014
  18. 1flyfisher

    1flyfisher Member

    Messages:
    59
    Damn that is nasty. I think that MFLB has seen better days. I don't think you can clean that unless you soak it in iso.
     
  19. Vicki

    Vicki The Bionic Woman

    Messages:
    5,747
    You can't soak an entire Launch Box in ISO, it will ruin it.
     
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  20. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,891
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Do not even think of soaking it in ISO. Or getting any ISO at all on the wood. Not one drop......

    OF
     
  21. 1flyfisher

    1flyfisher Member

    Messages:
    59
    My stuff is dry and finely ground with the finishing grinder to the grain consistency between salt and pepper. It is perfect herb for the MFLB. It is dry but after you grind it it is nice and fluffy. Medical grade top shelf.
    I am going to continue to use my current MFLB and play with this one some more. I am considering a PA as I need the car adapter for camping. I'd like to run it with the PA then I will know if it is me or the unit. I am taking shorter hits and it seems to be a lot better. I seem to avoid bad taste but don't seem to get much vapor. I haven't gotten it wired for myself just yet so I must consider all variables. I think long slow draws 30 seconds + are good for the first few hits like the first 3 but then after that I have found that sipping it with quick sips for like 20 seconds are better.
     
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  22. davesmith

    davesmith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    201
    you guyss forget that using the CTs with oil etc will coat your box very quickly. I can't see too well in the photo but mine is pretty gunked up and I just heat and scrape occasionally (small nail) and it's alright.

    A really long burn off can help IME
     
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  23. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

    Messages:
    2,746
    I have used the method OF suggested, Using the PA on High with a 1' whip. 5-10 min powered on high with the box turned on end so the oils run down into the whip. Worked pretty well getting rid of most of the heavy buildup but still the wood is very oily under the screen, Much better then it was though.

    :leaf::mflb:
     
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  24. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,891
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Hey, don't blame me......like I said, 'it's Pak's fault'.......

    So you did it intentionally? I got the feeling Pak stored it that way???

    Thanks for post, useful information.

    OF
     
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  25. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

    Messages:
    2,746
    It's Not like new but it wasn't/isn't new so... also when you vape a trench of herbs from out of the Vapolution Infuser ya gotta expect it to get a bit messy.
     
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