Discontinued The Hammer Vaporizer

[Tweek]

I spent a bit of time last night playing around with my Pure Flow, and the concept of attaching it to the back of the hammer adding moisture on intake. As you see from the photo below, I simply had to remove the mouthpiece:

The metal shaft then fit loosely over the air intake tube of the hammer. I am still working out how to anchor it securely at the moment. I also imagine this will get quite hot after awhile.

 

[OF]

I made the first point because if you were able to draw humidity through the inlet by utilizing an atomizer or whatever, just because the water is highly heated by the vaporizer doesn't mean it's simply gone and not available to your lungs. I may have misunderstood your thoughts on this, however.

OK, I think I get where you're going. Yes, you can jam the right weight of water down the throat (like you're a BMW fuel injection system) so the RH of the exhaust is whatever you want. At least I think you can. You can probably simply measure the flow rate of cold air, assume there was no useful water there and go about injecting the appropriate weight of water so you'd have the content you wanted.

However, doing so would defeat the purpose I think since it'd steal heat from the exchanger to evaporate the water off and heat the water vapor to 400F before it hit the bud. This would represent a lot of heat, the specific heat of the water vapor being big IIRC. This makes the exhaust hot (but moist).

OTOH, doing as TV does and using the heat in the exhaust stream to do the evaporating cools (rather than heats) the vapor as the water is added. The goal was cool and moist, not hotter and moist?

Attractive as it sounds, the 'moisturize before' scheme doesn't seem practical to me.

I spent a bit of time last night playing around with my Pure Flow, and the concept of attaching it to the back of the hammer adding moisture on intake. As you see from the photo below, I simply had to remove the mouthpiece:

The metal shaft then fit loosely over the air intake tube of the hammer. I am still working out how to anchor it securely at the moment. I also imagine this will get quite hot after awhile.

I don't think it'll get all that hot, really. With enough cool air coming in? And the evaporation cooling caused by what little water does evaporate. The point is, very little will evaporate while it's cold. I see guys missing this point. The best we can hope for, full saturation, a fog bank with water dripping off the walls, will be woefully dry when heated.

All you're doing is blowing cold air over the water. Nothing is forcing it to evaporate. Moving it to hot air changes that.

Fun idea, good luck with it.



OF

 

[satyrday]

... The goal was cool and moist, not hotter and moist?

Attractive as it sounds, the 'moisturize before' scheme doesn't seem practical to me.

I think Egzoset's goal is to moisturize without filtering the vapor. If he were able to achieve results using his inlet-humidification method, I don't think the vapor would be any hotter, but also not necessarily cooler - true, though I don't think that is his aim. However I too also doubt its practicality now, especially after some of the good points you raised.

I also think he would be better off with wet cotton or something in the exhaust line to moisturize, but not filter the vapor. He would have to make a straw wide enough for the cotton and adequate airflow, or perhaps use the T1 solution (though I don't know enough about it to say it doesn't filter the vapor). In fact I think he inquired about this possible solution in his post awhile back regarding the use of a wet donut.

 

[OF]

I think Egzoset's goal is to moisturize without filtering the vapor. If he were able to achieve results using his inlet-humidification method, I don't think the vapor would be any hotter, but also not necessarily cooler - true, though I don't think that is his aim.

The two are separate. TV has two products that look alike. One is a filter that doesn't moisturize, the other a moisturizer that doesn't filter. I have both right here. You can see though one (it has a ring with water in it), not the other (it has a plate with pores that doesn't hold water blocking the path). Take your choice.

I think you're wrong about the heat of the exhaust. Heat being different from raw temperature. Adding a lot of water vapor that needs to be heated means that the water vapor needs to be heated. That represents a lot of heat, a pound of water needing more more heat than a pound of air by about four times IIRC. This means it'll make other stuff (like you) four times hotter than the same amount of air would.....and it does noting to increasing the concentration of THC. OTHO, putting it in after vaping means that extra energy is taken from the heat of the vapor, after extraction, which we want. I think.

But it's an easy and safe (and fun) set of experiments to run, and we should seek the truth....science demands no less.

Regards,

OF

 

[OO]

Actually it doesn't clog up very much since the vapor doesn't go through it but past it. The ceramic reservoir is a ring maybe 1/4 inch long with a 1/8 bore (give or take).

This is the Pure Flow, not the True Flow recommended. TF doesn't absorb water, it's a micro pore ceramic filter, not a reservoir. You need the PF, not TF for moisture. You want the one you can see through, not the one that's blocked by ceramic.

I run mine under the faucet and shake out what will come out. It does very well for several hits typically before needing more. The companion "True Flow" is a true filter, but it doesn't clog up all that fast either. Fun little products.

Trying to hydrate the input won't work guys, the relative humidity drops like a proverbial rock when the air gets heated. If you start out in heavy fog (100% RH, 15mg/kilo) at 20C, by the time you get to 50C (17% of the way to vaping temperature, long way to go) you'll be at 16% RH (15 of the 95mg per Kg possible at that temperature). By the time you get to the magic temperature you'll be 'far to dry to spit' for sure. Back of this envelope says so anyway.

This is why the coast is damp and the desert dry. Temperature and ability to hold water are linked closely.

You have to heat it first to add the water....cold water doesn't evaporate well.

FWIW I'm still thinking a piece of soggy cotton string poked into the stem......

OF

I'm in agreement, what I would like to see though is if the thermovape system cannot be modified sufficiently to incorporate heat into its water volitization system.

Even if the vapor air is only mildly humidified, I still wouldn't mind, as long as it is enough humidity to negate the irritation. Your point is valid in that it is unlikely to be humidified enough without additional heat at the water source(s).

I don't think it will take too long for us to resolve this issue.

 

[OF]

I think putting it in the output stream heats it plenty, it does in T1 which is basically the same sort of vape. It's easy enough to do, a short piece of Silicone tube will attach the TV unit to the end of the HV stem.

I'm happy to try it, but the results are very subjective. I'm not upset with the HV as it is...in fact I'm pretty impressed by it. Not to say it couldn't be moister, and maybe 'better' that way, just that I literally never cared enough to try? How much weight could you give my opinion of the results? We don't have hard numbers here......

OF

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations everyone,

There's no hotter water vapor than that which is generated by proper butane burning i suppose, yet that's possibly even more moisture than i'd actually need simply to compensate for dryness from a 125 mg bowl.

I'd want to use ice/cold water filtration only if it's been made clear enough that this helps to remove some carbon dioxyde (CO2), ideally... The same would apply to hydro-carbons of course. Otherwise a water accessory would defeat The Hammer's portability, although it would remain an option that i can use if/when convenient - INDOORS.

Wet cotton would be fine for preliminary testing provided that a teflon straw forbids blocking free-air passage (donut-type layout), but yet some heat-conducting substrate would seem more appropriate to supply enough heat for the evaporation process.

Using a separate water tank might provide an opportunity to minimize the cooling effect, hopefully. There's plenty of heat right before reaching the vaporisation chamber so i'd attempt to divert (capture) some of it via a pair of air-tight independant sintered-ceramic screens coupled thermally by a heat-conductive barrier: maybe there wouldn't be moisture added during the first seconds but i'm betting my inhalation period could happen to allow evaporation of a sufficient amount of water near the end.

If it's making sense at all then i can imagine this will be solved before Justin Trudeau get elected, though i'd prefer sooner...

 

[satyrday]

Wet cotton would be fine for preliminary testing provided that a teflon straw forbids blocking free-air passage (donut-type layout), but yet some heat-conducting substrate would seem more appropriate to supply enough heat for the evaporation process.

Greetings Egzoset.

Here is a real low tech solution to try. Put a wet cotton donut in your mouth with the tip of the straw just barely entering it so it can humidify the vapor. Don't inhale that sucker! (the donut I mean)

 

[Egzoset]

Hi there Satyrday,

Here is a real low tech solution...

Nice affordable & reproducible experiments are great (and much too rare!) but i don't own The Hammer, at least not yet.

At the moment i see water condensasion forming inside my PVC tubing everytime i light up so i'm afraid i can't test this on a VG neither. But that could be fun otherwise...

 

[OF]

Nice affordable & reproducible experiments are great (and much too rare!) but i don't own The Hammer, at least not yet.

Oh. That explains a lot actually. I think I'm starting to understand why I'm having trouble understanding.....

At the moment i see water condensasion forming inside my PVC tubing everytime i light up so i'm afraid i can't test this on a VG neither. But that could be fun otherwise...

I guess you don't realize that VG and HV are entirely different in the way they transfer heat. While in VG you're downstream from the fire, here it's totally separate except for the heat part. Like the firebox in a gas furnace rather than a stove in the kitchen.

This explains a lot in the post above this one, there's no extra water vapor or CO2 in the vapor path here, unlike VG. Very different in that respect.

In other news, I did try the TV Pure Flow (not filter, adds moisture...) on an inch or so of tube on the end of the stem. It seems to work somewhat, somehow less than with T1? It did seem to help with the sharp edge of the 'popcorn taste' when I pushed it to the wall. Have to fiddle more there. IMO it effects but nothing to get too excited about. Not much water, either. It only lost about 30mg.

It's possible Tweek isn't crazy after all. Maybe.

I somehow broke my new self holding stem as well. A crescent shaped piece came out of the rim. Bummer, but it is glass. It just fell off, I don't think it was the added weight of the TV piece (if so, it's in trouble....). Anyone else have this happen?

OF

 

[Egzoset]

Hi again OF,

...I'm starting to understand...

I suppose you must have been wondering why i didn't seem to care putting those ideas to test any sooner myself, now i begin to understand as well!

I guess you don't realize that VG and HV are entirely different...

Oh, it's "HV" instead of "TH". I'm taking note of this too!



There's been no picture "obvious" enough for my own personal taste but it gathered some solid air-tight metal path links the connectors on each horizontal end while a butane flame heats that tubular conduit from outside (venting exhaust on top), which is why there's no CO2/Hydro-Carbons but hence no water vapour neither... Since i'm doubtful those contents can be seprated conveniently in the present case i concluded water would have to come from elsewhere, from some hot evaporating pad for example.

...VG and HV are entirely different in the way they transfer heat.

My guess is that perhaps you didn't see my previous illustration.

...seems to work somewhat...

Thank you for considering that issue.

 

[satyrday]

Can anyone recommend a travel cap for the standard Hammer straw? This would be a good thing for Head Tools to include in their accessory bundle.

FYI - like this for the Solo:
http://www.planetvape.ca/solo-vaporizer-travel-caps-2.html

 

[OF]

Can anyone recommend a travel cap for the standard Hammer straw? This would be a good thing for Head Tools to include in their accessory bundle.

FYI - like this for the Solo:
http://www.planetvape.ca/solo-vaporizer-travel-caps-2.html

Sure, the next size down should do nicely:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#9753K39

However, I use Doob Tubes (which you can also get from PV):
http://www.planetvape.ca/doob-tubes.html

I put a small piece of cloth in the bottom to hold it up against the cap so it doesn't spill (no big deal if it does, it's easy to reload.....). This not only seals the tube completely (no smell) but protects it in your pocket (or elsewhere) from breakage.

Filing or trimming the lip off the bottom of the tube lets you store it inside the red box with the unit as well.

OF

 

[Tweek]

I just realized that I called it the pure flow...I have the smooth flow, the one which is for cooling not filtering. Anyhow, I prefer it attached to the draw side, as I originally had it. Nothing earth shattering, but the vapor is a bit cooler and smoother.

 

[Head Tools]

Oh, it's "HV" instead of "TH". I'm taking note of this too!

Actually, we abbreviate it THV (why does that sound so familiar to me?)

NO MORE wispy HITS

 

[OO]

This explains a lot in the post above this one, there's no extra water vapor or CO2 in the vapor path here, unlike VG. Very different in that respect.

I thought about this yesterday, and it is not quite the case. Evidence can be seen if one holds down the button about halfway for a couple seconds before igniting the hammer. Watch as flames pour out the sides. This indicates that exhaust is likely making it's way into the intake. I will try to modify the hammer soon to route the flame exhaust away from the intake port.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Head Tools,

Actually, we abbreviate it THV (why does that sound so familiar to me?)

Euh... Lets see: "T" as in Terminator or Tchernobil, "H" as in Herb (most evidently!!) or maybe Helluvia, etc., and "V", well... since this is a Vaporizer web site that must be it, at least that i'm sure of it!! So... How does a Tchernobil Helluvia Vaporizer fit with a scene as that shown below?

 

[Head Tools]

I thought about this yesterday, and it is not quite the case. Evidence can be seen if one holds down the button about halfway for a couple seconds before igniting the hammer. Watch as flames pour out the sides. This indicates that exhaust is likely making it's way into the intake. I will try to modify the hammer soon to route the flame exhaust away from the intake port.

This is only true at the moment of ignition... Once the burst of pressure has past and the flame is running smoothly, the exhaust gasses only come out of the top vent. The airpaths are completely separate, and the convection of the flame also helps reinforce the upward path of the exhaust.

In your scenario, you would have to be drawing on the stem during ignition to inhale any exhaust... (and that would not be a safe thing to do anyway)

NO MORE wispy HITS

 

[OO]

This is only true at the moment of ignition... Once the burst of pressure has past and the flame is running smoothly, the exhaust gasses only come out of the top vent. The airpaths are completely separate, and the convection of the flame also helps reinforce the upward path of the exhaust.

In your scenario, you would have to be drawing on the stem during ignition to inhale any exhaust... (and that would not be a safe thing to do anyway)

NO MORE wispy HITS

They are separate, but the exhaust port still doesn't reach the top of the housing. I would feel much more comfortable with the vape if it was this way. I'm planning on fitting a cone to the top of it to direct the exhaust out the top.

Btw, I don't always use the Hammer in the instructed fashion, I often hold it sideways or at angles to assist in using water filtration.

I feel that there is a large potential for exhaust gases to be pulled to the intake if the intake does not extend past the housing (the easy way), or if the flame exhaust isn't guided to the top (the hard way).

I can't prove it either way, it is just my suspicion based upon the aforementioned evidence.

 

[satyrday]

They are separate, but the exhaust port still doesn't reach the top of the housing. I would feel much more comfortable with the vape if it was this way. I'm planning on fitting a cone to the top of it to direct the exhaust out the top.

Btw, I don't always use the Hammer in the instructed fashion, I often hold it sideways or at angles to assist in using water filtration.

I feel that there is a large potential for exhaust gases to be pulled to the intake if the intake does not extend past the housing (the easy way), or if the flame exhaust isn't guided to the top (the hard way).

I can't prove it either way, it is just my suspicion based upon the aforementioned evidence.

I have to say that I only use the standard non-locking straws because I like to keep the exhaust completely away from the herb and the straw until I'm ready to hit. I sense an exhaust cloud around the device while it's firing and so I keep it at arm's length until it reaches temperature, and then bring it towards me quickly to disperse the fumes. I do love the Hammer, so I'm fine with this minor ritual.

 

[Head Tools]

They are separate, but the exhaust port still doesn't reach the top of the housing. I would feel much more comfortable with the vape if it was this way. I'm planning on fitting a cone to the top of it to direct the exhaust out the top.

Btw, I don't always use the Hammer in the instructed fashion, I often hold it sideways or at angles to assist in using water filtration.

I feel that there is a large potential for exhaust gases to be pulled to the intake if the intake does not extend past the housing (the easy way), or if the flame exhaust isn't guided to the top (the hard way).

I can't prove it either way, it is just my suspicion based upon the aforementioned evidence.

I can see your solution being beneficial when the Hammer is used in a horizontal orientation.

When the Hammer is used in an upright position, it should not be an issue

 

[OO]

I have to say that I only use the standard non-locking straws because I like to keep the exhaust completely away from the herb and the straw until I'm ready to hit. I sense an exhaust cloud around the device while it's firing and so I keep it at arm's length until it reaches temperature, and then bring it towards me quickly to disperse the fumes. I do love the Hammer, so I'm fine with this minor ritual.

I'm confident that the seal in the lock-on style is plenty enough to keep any air from around the seal from getting in.

The heat exchanger expands noticeably when the proper temperature has been reached, it holds the lock on stem quite well.

In my previous post I meant to say "moisture conditioning" rather than the misnomer "water filtration".

I can see your solution being beneficial when the Hammer is used in a horizontal orientation.

When the Hammer is used in an upright position, it should not be an issue

It might be something worth adding to a future model.

 

[satyrday]

I'm confident that the seal in the lock-on style is plenty enough to keep any air from around the seal from getting in.

You may be right about the seal - I just play it safe. I envision the fumes drafting in from the other side of the Hammer, but then I can have a dark imagination.

Keeping it at arm's length while firing is a definite for me though.

 

[OF]

This is only true at the moment of ignition... Once the burst of pressure has past and the flame is running smoothly, the exhaust gasses only come out of the top vent.

I think this is exactly the point. The combustion exhaust is HOT, very hot. It goes up with a vengeance. Butane fums, OTOH, are quite dense and sink in still air (their chief dangers to us, most likely, suffocation). More over, they come out colder than the air around the Hammer, so they tend to sink all the faster.

While an interesting experiment, not a valid one I think?

If you want to watch this in action, try 'shadow graphs', notice bright sunlight on say smooth concrete after it passes through the gasses around your Hammer. The 'refractive index' of either the exhaust or the butane vapors can be easily seen under good conditions.

OF

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations OF,

...exhaust... ...very hot. ...The 'refractive index' of either the exhaust or the butane vapors can be easily seen...

Perhaps you may have a hint about this pair of questions (who to ask about them, etc. Also i'm sure Heat Tools would have a reply). At least i'm hoping it's no trade secret:

Is there contact with the flame (soot)?​

​

What's the vest way to use butane in a radiative heat source? What about the THV for that matter? Etc.​

Would it be exagerated to imagine a heat-pipe filled with some oil, transporting heat while leaving behind all potential contaminants simply because those can't pass the barrier in between. It would most likely require careful insulation... I'm not sure i'd want wood in the air/vapour path at such temperatures though!