Discontinued The Grasshopper

[GreenHopper]

I realized the nitcore charger is not a perfect fit, it's normal? Using the nitcore intelligent i2 #2016 model.

Personally I use the xTar VC2 but I know a lot of people use the Nitecore's (i2 + i4) and are happy with them.

Actually I've stopped using my VC2 and now tend to just leave my hopper on the OEM charger.

 

[diandiandian]

Personally I use the xTar VC2 but I know a lot of people use the Nitecore's (i2 + i4) and are happy with them.

Actually I've stopped using my VC2 and now tend to just leave my hopper on the OEM charger.

So do I need to set the output voltage anything, or just insert the battery in and let it do its work. I see there is 3.7v 4.2 4.35v, if I use 4.2v what will happen? Sorry for weird question

 

[GreenHopper]

So do I need to set the output voltage anything, or just insert the battery in and let it do its work. I see there is 3.7v 4.2 4.35v, if I use 4.2v what will happen? Sorry for weird question

It's worth having a read from this post onwards as people were discussing their experiences with the Nitecore and other chargers.

Basically you need to charge the batteries up to 4.2v.

I believe the Nitecore (remember I have an xTar so I'm just going on what I've read about the Nitecore) will automatically detect and set the charge target (4.2v) for you.

I think the only thing you can change is the rate at which the Nitecore charges (I believe 300mah or 500mAh). I personally don't believe it makes any difference as to the longevity or health of the hoppers batteries which setting you go for, others disagree. All I can tell you is the OEM charger runs at 500mAh.


I believe it was @MoltenTiger or @biohacker that noted how topping the batteries off with the OEM charger for 5-10mins before hitting it gave them a better experience. I'm not 100% sure but I think this is because the OEM charger pushes for a charge target of 4.25v which gives just that little extra kick for a huge cloudy initial hit.

Me personally, I can't be bothered worrying about any of this stuff, I just leave my hopper on the OEM charger all the time so the battery (GHB1) is constantly topped off. When my friends come on over I break out the xTar VC2.

 

[voodoo_vape]

Personally I use the xTar VC2 but I know a lot of people use the Nitecore's (i2 + i4) and are happy with them.

Actually I've stopped using my VC2 and now tend to just leave my hopper on the OEM charger.

bare in mind that the usb charger "fully charges" the battety, whereas nitecore allows a small kinda buffer.. I've never seen 4.2V after a full charge with my nitecore D4.. I also haven't used my usb charger.. ever so far.. So in the long term, I'm not sure that charging your batteries to their limits is a good idea. Many people have complained for shorter battery life spans after some time. Maybe they were using the usb charger..

I'm sure that other fellow FCers will enlighten us once again with some battery juicy info!!

 

[GreenHopper]

bare in mind that the usb charger "fully charges" the battety, whereas nitecore allows a small kinda buffer.. I've never seen 4.2V after a full charge with my nitecore D4.. I also haven't used my usb charger.. ever so far.. So in the long term, I'm not sure that charging your batteries to their limits is a good idea. Many people have complained for shorter battery life spans after some time. Maybe they were using the usb charger..

I'm sure that other fellow FCers will enlighten us once again with some battery juicy info!!

That's why I opted for the xTar, people were reporting a more consistent result of 4.2V. However I hardly use it these days as the OEM charger works best for me.

Regarding overcharging, remember the batteries were made by HL, so was the OEM charger, in my mind following the manufacturer's exact recommended process seems to get me the best results.

Also if I have to replace a few $7 batteries once every 6-12month then that's what I'll do. These batteries are driven hard and regular replacement is kinda part of the deal really.

 

[voodoo_vape]

Regarding overcharging, remember the batteries were made by HL, so was the OEM charger, in my mind following the manufacturer's exact recommended process seems to get me the best results.

well.. I'm not sure that I can feel the same way like you do with HL.. although they have developed a really radical product, I don't think think that they've mastered all possible faults and errors.. they've definitely made some serious progress..
On the same context, don't forget that those batteries don't even have a CE certification, another fellow EU hopperhead had some issues on the german boarders. Also, don't forget that their 1st charger was faulty, hence I'm not using mine although it's the new version.

I must agree that they only cost $7 and you can have several rotating..

 

[invertedisdead]

The Hopper’s battery is a custom designed lithium-ion cell. The size and shape are non-standard, which you might find annoying. We chose to go this route to maximize the size of the battery without making the device any bigger. The Hopper was designed to be small, and there wasn’t a standard size that fit our parameters.

I still think not basing the design around an 18650 is a huge oversight. I wish they would make a 510 atomizer with their 3D printed heater tech that would be a GAME CHANGER!

 

[MoltenTiger]

I think the only thing you can change is the rate at which the Nitecore charges (I believe 300mah or 500mAh). I personally don't believe it makes any difference as to the longevity or health of the hoppers batteries which setting you go for, others disagree. All I can tell you is the OEM charger runs at 500mAh.


I believe it was @MoltenTiger or @biohacker that noted how topping the batteries off with the OEM charger for 5-10mins before hitting it gave them a better experience. I'm not 100% sure but I think this is because the OEM charger pushes for a charge target of 4.25v which gives just that little extra kick for a huge cloudy initial hit.

It is a fact that increased charging rate causes more degradation to the battery chemicals potential. However the extent that it affects the life span is unmeasured for the hoppers batteries, but the rated charge cycle is already quite bad.
Whether or not that's important to the user is only relative to their own ideals and situations.
But in terms of spreading fact, it's a point worth considering.

It's also worth pointing out that the OEM charger doesn't charge at a constant current as previously assumed, but has been measured to fluctuate up to a 1.2A rate.
Constant current charging at this rate is worse than occasional peaks, but it's also worth being aware of this.

The OEM charger does seem to be better for longevity than external charging, though I can only compare with 1A CC (1.25C) charging which isn't recommendable anyway. Xtar seems to be the way to go if you don't already have a charger. (It matches the specs of the external charger HL recommended whilst being available to non-US customers/can be used via USB portably).

In terms of charging batteries in the hopper after inserting one taken from a wall charger, this isn't good practice.
It basically just uses up finite charge cycles.
The user who brought this up was using a Nitecore D4 and it took 15 minutes or something for the OEM charger to top up to full capacity, indicating that their external charger was undercharging. This means they'll see a performance boost from double charging, and that it might not be bad for batteries (Li-ion has no memory).
Batteries from my Xtar MC2 charge up on the OEM charger in a matter of seconds, perhaps a minute if it has been sitting (discharging). There might be performance benefit to doing this, but from what I have observed from subtle firmware changes I'd doubt it now.

I must agree that they only cost $7 and you can have several rotating..

Yeah that's it, $35 a year is my expected battery budget.

The batteries cost HL $5, so for $7 HL is being pretty kind - they hate proprietary cells too (Trevor, Reddit)
Might be some good insight for those wanting 18650s (Selectively avoided by the designers).
Yes a 510 mod would be very cool, but it would need to be entirely custom. To which so is the hopper. I think extra capacity would mean more expensive cells with similar life-span

 

[MountainManGuy]

It's also worth pointing out that the OEM charger doesn't charge at a constant current as previously assumed, but has been measured to fluctuate up to a 1.2A rate.
Constant current charging at this rate is worse than occasional peaks, but it's also worth being aware of this.

So I was the user who posted that video on reddit. I tried my hopper in another port that is capable of up to 3 amps output and found the my hoppers OEM charger will fluctuate up to 2 amps at times. Towards the end of the charging cycle the battery charges up to 1.65 ish amps. Point is, it's much high than the 500 mA rating I've seen people post.

 

[MoltenTiger]

So I was the user who posted that video on reddit. I tried my hopper in another port that is capable of up to 3 amps output and found the my hoppers OEM charger will fluctuate up to 2 amps at times. Towards the end of the charging cycle the battery charges up to 1.65 ish amps. Point is, it's much high than the 500 mA rating I've seen people post.

Thanks for testing, I should have referenced your reddit post.
So whatever the OEM charger does, it's either made to do a custom charging pattern specifically for the GH battery or it's an inferior option.
Given that we don't know the battery chemistry there's no way to know, but we do know for sure that CC charging at 0.8C is the most recommendable rate for general Li-ion, which is 0.6A for the GHBs.
It's unlikely that CC (constant current) charging is worse than variable rate charging for GHBs as HL's recommended external charger does a 0.5A CC rate.

This info gets blurred over all the time, so to put it in laymen's terms - my annual battery budget of $35 won't hold up with rapid rate charging (So far I've spent over double this on batteries in 12 months and spent a long while charging at 1A).
It's possible GHB2s are that much superior that the performance benefit I'm currently seeing charging at half that rate over half that time is solely due to their increased quality, but I doubt it. If anything the revision would yield better capacity averages from these mixed bin batts, and at least half of my 8 dead batteries were comparable to the GHB2 experience.

Battery cost alone negates any real benefit to babying the GHBs, but for those who must pay an international premium (Cost+exchange rate/shipping) it's worth attempting to save a bit of money without doing anything other than using cheap and quality goods. Relying on a charger that has gone through multiple revisions and still shows the same problematic symptoms that I have experienced first hand and caused a warranty replacement is also an option.

Every charging option works and is viable, some methods will simply cost more.
It's going to be less than $100 difference so who cares?
Some might, so they may as well see the facts.
I prefer bud in my jars to wasting money on shitty charges and shitty batteries, so far it's been over $100 for me on both those things. That's about all I'd change in my hopper life, pocket that money and rock the Xtar from the get go

 

[Hogni]

Short advice for european customers:

'Verdampftnochmal' actually seems not to have any Hoppers in stock. But the days I saw some ss ones at "Klaus der Gärtner" Still not listed online but in stock for 238 €!

 

[almost there]

I'm sorry for posting so many questions but I just noticed my hopper makes buzzing clicking noises. Perhaps this was always the case and finally caught my attention but is this normal? I haven't come across any postings of this on this thread, maybe I missed it? It's pretty loud now that I hear it, much more so than the buzzing of the IQ or Pax

 

[MoltenTiger]

I'm sorry for posting so many questions but I just noticed my hopper makes buzzing clicking noises. Perhaps this was always the case and finally caught my attention but is this normal? I haven't come across any postings of this on this thread, maybe I missed it? It's pretty loud now that I hear it, much more so than the buzzing of the IQ or Pax

Yeah that's totally normal, it's caused by the PWM (pulse width modulation) in the circuitry and is apparently one meaning/reason behind the name change from Zen Pen to Grasshopper

The hopper lab said don't vape below 32 and above 90.

This is just a standard temp spectrum for normal/safe operation of Li-ion batteries.
HL recommend keeping the unit warm (mainly the batteries) and promote using it in cold conditions.

Worth pointing out that if it is seriously below freezing, you could use chemical hand warmers to keep the batteries and/or device at a usable temp

 

[vapviking]

I'm sorry for posting so many questions but I just noticed my hopper makes buzzing clicking noises. Perhaps this was always the case and finally caught my attention but is this normal? I haven't come across any postings of this on this thread, maybe I missed it? It's pretty loud now that I hear it, much more so than the buzzing of the IQ or Pax

Clicking is normal though it will be louder and softer at different times.

 

[biohacker]

I've never seen 4.2V after a full charge with my nitecore D4

That's weird, i've never NOT seen 4.2v after a full charge with my D4, and that goes for both GHB1 and GHB2 batteries. I usually throw them on there around 3.8v give or take.

The batteries cost HL $5, so for $7 HL is being pretty kind

Yeah, for now!

 

[voodoo_vape]

That's weird, i've never NOT seen 4.2v after a full charge with my D4, and that goes for both GHB1 and GHB2 batteries. I usually throw them on there around 3.8v give or take.

My bad.. Probably I didn't put it correctly.

What I meant to say was that I've never seen a 4.2V charged battery since whenever I've put it back right after being charged, it shows 4.16-4.18 and it always looks like it needs a bit more charging. I take this one as the "small buffer" needed for its battery. There must be a reason that the D4 doesn't fill them up to the top. Like tyres more or less I assume.. If you over pump'em, they may as well explode

 

[MountainManGuy]

Every charging option works and is viable, some methods will simply cost more.
It's going to be less than $100 difference so who cares?
Some might, so they may as well see the facts.
I prefer bud in my jars to wasting money on shitty charges and shitty batteries, so far it's been over $100 for me on both those things. That's about all I'd change in my hopper life, pocket that money and rock the Xtar from the get go

This. I second this. My XTAR MC1 is fantastic and charges the batteries at a safe speed (just under .5 amps). I do not think variable charging up to 2 amps is good for the life of these batteries.

Got a XTAR MC2 on the way as well and that charger will prolly be my daily driver.

Also, I reached out to hopper labs via email about this a couple weeks ago, and Caroline told me to keep an eye out on an upcoming blog post regarding the charger, so maybe we'll get a little more insight on this soon.

Edit: Lastly, if you're reading this DO NOT BUY the olight UC magnetic charger!! I've been trying to use that charger for my hopper batts and I've had 2 of those chargers fail on me now. They don't even last a week. DO NOT BUY Olight UC for Hopper batteries!!

 

[biohacker]

There must be a reason that the D4 doesn't fill them up to the top.

I don't know man, are you sure your charger isn't defective? Mine charge to 4.2v every single time, and if I take them off and put them back on they say 4.2v as well. They only drop .1v or .2v after they have been sitting for a while.

 

[JCat]

That's weird, i've never NOT seen 4.2v after a full charge with my D4, and that goes for both GHB1 and GHB2 batteries. I usually throw them on there around 3.8v give or take.



Yeah, for now!

What are you testing the 4.2V with? A separate meter or the charger's built-in meter? My Nitecore D2 always says 4.20 too, but haven't checked them yet on a separate meter ... maybe I'll do that today ...

 

[biohacker]

What the charger is displaying...as @voodoo_vape was doing.

 

[JCat]

I think perhaps to eliminate all variables one would have to use an external meter (or maybe not ... if the meter has a guaranteed accuracy ... ie. +/- .01V ... then that would give you a good idea)

Eg. If the meter accuracy is +/-.01V and it shows 4.20 then you could say it is charged between 4.19-4.21V

 

[JCat]

Ok ... so after having 2 different hoppers (one SS brand new, and one Ti from @biohacker) ... and used them for combined a few weeks anyways, I feel I can give a proper review.

First of all, they are fantastic devices when they work (as has been said by many). They are also very versatile and work well as an out-and-about portable as well as a heavy hitting home vaporizer (and also the in-between as a hard-hitting portable if using something like a small 14mm hydratube or even something more simple for cooling).

As a home vape, when used through water or even waterless through a water tool, it can easily finish a chamber in 1-5 hits depending on the size of chamber, lungs, etc. It can hit hard and fast. Very efficient and instantaneous. Flavor in my opinion is on-par with that of other high quality vapes such as the EVO. Can produce very dense clouds.

As a portable, I used starting at 3 and moving to 4 and it works wonderfully. You have to be careful as it can get quite hot on the mouthpiece and the vapor coming out, but it's quite ok if you manage it through length and strength of your draw. I do find the Ti has a bit of an edge here as well with the mouthpiece not being as hot. The ability for it to be pretty much instantly ready, and then pocketable after a hit is great. I was in Toronto this past week, and it was nice to take a few hits sometimes between locations such as leaving the museum and the 2 minute walk to the bus w/ my kids. It's very discrete, and since the bus was there pretty much immediately, I was able to put it back in my pocket to finish after (which I did after the bus and subway between the subway terminal and walking into the restaurant). So as a portable, it hits quite hard, and is very convenient in a lot of ways.

Now on to the not so good stuff ....

1. Loading and emptying is a bit of a pain. I miss the convenience of the Mighty/Crafty capsules! ... I don't know what I would do without @Ratchett 's awesome funnel. Thanks @Ratchett! I also love the leather case and the spiral stand

2. Questionable reliability and erratic behavior leading to high maintenance is a big problem. I sent my SS after about 1 week of use ... it always had a hot back-end. When I got the Ti, I realized that it was also under-performing a little so sent it in. My Ti, worked wonderfully for about a week+, and then started to have some issues. Sometimes not seeming to get hot enough, rough power button on back ... just not smooth. Sometimes the back-end would get hot, or the whole thing a bit. This deteriorated to where I'd say it was performing at about 40% over my vacation. It would at this point have the rapid flashing blue lights and going to flashing red before even finishing a bowl on a fresh battery. The irony is, that at 40% performance, using at 4-5 as portable and at 5 at home w/ single session per battery, it was still what I primarily used over my Mighty and Crafty that I also had with me. The convenience is outstanding, and the performance at 40% even is still quite good ... not what it can be though! Wasn't able to milk my little bubbler up but still gave nice clouds and had quite acceptable, but could be better, performance as portable. It was maybe at 60+% at the start of the week and down to 40% by the end. I tried all kinds of things, rotating knob, rotating switch, cleaning everything, cleaning everything again, nothing worked. Yesterday when I got home used some Cdn Tire version of blu-tac and rotated my back clicker switch, and it seems to be working about 80-90% now!!! ... the switch seems to have smoothed out though ... maybe it fell into the correct "groove"? Who knows. Anyway ... like I was saying ... questionable reliability and erratic behavior leading to high maintenance!


Now about warranty ... good and bad ... overall a pretty decent experience, but they messed one critical thing up which kinda' soured the whole experience. I sent my hopper in, and it took 2 business days to get there. $25 CAD approximately. Pretty good! Would have expected 5 days, but 2 is bonus! (I'm really in the middle of nowhere so things take 2 days just to get to Toronto) They had it for 3 days for replacement of back-end and testing before it was shipped. So far at this point they are 1 week + a day from my door to on my way back to me. Since I indicated the problem with the lengthy untrackable shipping, and I had only had a week or so use of my hopper and it was already back for repair, Caroline had graciously offered to ship it back UPS instead of USPS. Unfortunately I guess they made a mistake and sent @biohacker 's back to him UPS and mine back USPS; so .... I guess this means that the first part took 6 business days and now I can expect to wait 10 business days or more to get it back. Should have been gone <2 weeks, now it will be gone likely 3 or more

So ... that's a lot of good and a lot of bad ... I do feel that they can get these erratic performance and reliability issues sorted out eventually; I truly hope so anyways. I think a lot of the problems are with maintaining solid conductivity in the back end and making that back-end robust. Would be interesting to test the performance of a degraded one without a back end (ie. short the negative battery terminal to the case). I do think that instructions and support for removing the oven screen will be required in order to minimize warranty claims which when too frequent will lose you customers (lifetime warranty or not ... it's the inconvenience). Light users might not need to remove this screen, but even if I only use as a portable and when out of Town, I can see the need to remove and clean under there at least a couple times a year (although a week out of town equals 1/2oz of cannabis vaped through it or so .... so .... even used as a portable/travel vape for me it will see quite a bit of usage)

I could go on more ... but I think that about covers it!

 

[MonkeyTime]

As far as the batteries go, they're all over the place right out of the box.

I tested 5 of my 6 batteries (couldn't resist throwing one in immediately) and ran them thru a discharge/charge/test cycle on my Opus C3400 (current at the time V3.1) and got drastically different results. All ended up charging between 4.10 and 4.19V, and those numbers from the charger matched my meter.

I've tried different chargers, but none of them exceed what I found new. They were all GHB2's and to this day degrade slowly and pretty consistently within the group.

My problem has always been that my unit seems to run cooler than most and around 3.85V I have to switch them out if I want to fully extract. For the first time since I've had it, I've used it for my daily driver at home (still don't trust or have the patience for it mobile) over the last two weeks, and it's dying slowly, but very clearly.

For me, the only benefit it has is it's size. The batteries don't work for my usage, I can't stomach having to bring all 4-6 with me for a long evening out. The back end gets silly hot and is getting hotter day by day as it breaks down and the vapor is hot enough that I prefer it thru a small piece of glass like the @DDave Mi V2 cooler.

To me, this thing is the hottest girl in the room that after a while, isn't worth putting up with

Depending on what Vapexhale is working on and the forthcoming Haze Square, I'll be ready and willing to try the GH v2!

 

[voodoo_vape]

@biohacker from what you're telling me man I'm probably having an ineffective nitecore, but then again it's charging the batteries just fine. I think that there were some other users having the same situation like mine. I didn't think of it as a flaw or sth.. I'm able to pull 2 max 3 bowls with my batteries.. if I finish my bowls off with a T5 a rip, then I'll probably get two proper bowls, otherwise if I finish them at T4 I will get 3 of them..

 

[biohacker]

All good bro, I was just reporting my own personal findings that my D4 charges (or at least displays) 4.2v. Every time.