T-Bucket Banger System by NewVape

[RustyOldNail]

I'll be 'that guy' and say bah I've had the same enail (controller and coil) running min 18hrs/day every day for nearly 8yrs now.
I'd never claim it's better for the coil, it's simply better for the convenience of the multiple people in the house. And coils are cheap enough to accept the trade off in possible reduced life.
The fire risk is always there, of course, but must be put into perspective.
Unless something contacts the coil/nail (ie it being knocked over) the risk is likely no more than any other electrical device and probably less than things like the lithium-ion batteries in our phones and vapes.

Just my opinion though, I could be a bloody fool, wouldn't be the first time.

Well, you said it yourself, “The fire risk is always there”.

Try putting it in “perspective”, AFTER a fire, or loss of life!

There are NO other electrical devices in my home that are a hot coil potentially running at 100f-900f. I turn my toaster oven on when I want toast, then turn it off. Same with all my other “heaters”. Personally, I have no problem waiting for a 10 minute warmup. Now, if you have multiple people using it frequently over 18 hours a day, well that’s a more unique situation then most. I hope you go another 8 years without incident.

A simple old saying suits me many times when having to make a decision:

RISK versus REWARD

 

[EmDeemo]

The other thought I've just had, is the reverse of what we've talked about, which is just how quickly the temp on the controller drops when a carb cap is applied and an inhale is happening... I havent got much further than having the thought and a rather unscientific "The carb cap changes everything!"

 

[TheCheeseSmeller]

@RustyOldNail If you get a chance could you possibly repeat the heat change test you tried before and give the time it takes to get upto temp. And maybe another down temp test? I'm not sure what common temps are, 450—500?
I guess different inserts would heat and cool at different rates?

 

[RustyOldNail]

@RustyOldNail If you get a chance could you possibly repeat the heat change test you tried before and give the time it takes to get upto temp. And maybe another down temp test? I'm not sure what common temps are, 450—500?
I guess different inserts would heat and cool at different rates?

Not sure what test you want me to repeat, but for what you asked above. Auber 300a PID, set temp to 500f, in about 3 minutes, (in general, lower set temp shorter heat time and higher set temp longer wait) the PID should reflect temperature is stable. Of course that just means the very tip of the coil, where the sensor is located. So I’ve found, that if I wait a total of 10 minutes, my Sapphire dish is now at my desired set temp. (My numbers match because I changed the PID’s offset, PSL= 1.16), otherwise with NO offset in effect, a set temp of 500f was actually only showing 450f, because of the heat loss in the titanium dish holder and the dish itself. Now unfortunately the delta or offset is not truly linear, so the differences vary at different temperatures. After a lot of paper charting, I was able to establish an “offset” average that I was able to change in the PID controller, and gives me good accuracy in my most useful ranges of about 400f - 600f, I don’t feel temperatures above or below that range really need to be as accurate. Oh, and as far as Coil cooling down times, I only made casual notice of about 15 minutes, at about 550f, but up to 25 minutes at 700f, cool downs are much slower. One thing I do not like on the Auber, is the unit cools off and flashes “HOT”, that’s great, but when it reaches a preprogrammed temperature of 150f, it shuts the power off, screen is blank. I find that temperature is too high, my metal rigs are still fairly HOT! When I mentioned it to their technician, he put me on hold, then came back and said, if you ship it to us we will reprogram it, no charge. I thought that was nice, not that I’m going to bother, I just got it. But it does point out one of the strengths some of the more expensive models, the ability to update the firmware, at HOME.

 

[TheCheeseSmeller]

Hi @RustyOldNail
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I'm interested in how long it takes a heat soaked head to change temp. To see if it's worthwhile trying to alter temp during a dab, or whether it's too slow to have any effect.
For example, heat soaked at 450, change temp, start stopwatch, how long before it hits 500? Or how long before it drops to 400?
Sorry if you've said before, but you're on a dcup with sapphire dish, with newvape 100w coil & auber pid?

 

[canj00digit?]

Now, if you have multiple people using it frequently over 18 hours a day, well that’s a more unique situation then most. I hope you go another 8 years without incident.

A simple old saying suits me many times when having to make a decision:

RISK versus REWARD

This I definitely agree with.
If there's no need to leave it on it's best not to, clearly.

Lots of folks use room/space heaters than run all day or all night while they sleep that are far more dangerous.
These PIDs and coil heaters are just re-purposed from industry where they are used in thousands of different applications all around the world and generally, in industry, running 24/7.

The only real danger (that isn't there with other electrical components) is something contacting the coil.
That's a risk I can control and have with zero issue for many years and there are plenty who do the same.
I can't control the risk on the lith-ion battery in my phone exploding, however, short of not having a phone.
https://www.wired.com/2017/03/lithium-ion-batteries-turn-skin-searing-firebombs/

Risk is relative, everyone decides for themselves as we clearly each have.

Thanks for the thought, I hope I go another 8 without burning to a crisp as well.

 

[RustyOldNail]

The other thought I've just had, is the reverse of what we've talked about, which is just how quickly the temp on the controller drops when a carb cap is applied and an inhale is happening... I havent got much further than having the thought and a rather unscientific "The carb cap changes everything!"

I think that theory is more plausible. I know temperature ramping is done on larger ECig mods. Temperature control is very accurate, I’m using a Mirage DNA75c with a 21700 battery to power the DT Quartz Crucible V4 atomizer (a little concentrate Atty for box mods, with both quartz and titanium cups). Just like a mini DCup on a battery mod, you QTip out the same way, NO horrible hot wire vaping for me.

Anyways, I digress as always. I never bothered getting into custom preheats etc. on my mods, though many swear by the difference some subtle changes can make. But remember, the coils in ecig atomizers as well as the wax ones are TINY, and the battery has enough power to ramp up the tiny coils almost instantly.

Now think about the size of the coils below your TCup. The power supply to ramp those babies up would be the issue. There may be ways of doing such a thing, and I’d love to see the technology.

Hi @RustyOldNail
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I'm interested in how long it takes a heat soaked head to change temp. To see if it's worthwhile trying to alter temp during a dab, or whether it's too slow to have any effect.
For example, heat soaked at 450, change temp, start stopwatch, how long before it hits 500? Or how long before it drops to 400?
Sorry if you've said before, but you're on a dcup with sapphire dish, with newvape 100w coil & auber pid?

I’m not going to repeat that test, as doing it once proved with my gear, exactly as you noted, does not work unless you can inhale for 2-3 minutes. See my followup above with Emmdeemo

 

[EmDeemo]

Hi @RustyOldNail
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I'm interested in how long it takes a heat soaked head to change temp. To see if it's worthwhile trying to alter temp during a dab, or whether it's too slow to have any effect.
For example, heat soaked at 450, change temp, start stopwatch, how long before it hits 500? Or how long before it drops to 400?
Sorry if you've said before, but you're on a dcup with sapphire dish, with newvape 100w coil & auber pid?

The results will be fairly inconclusive because all bets are off once you pop on the carb cap, add inhale and inhale speed, type of glass being used... Too many variables.

IMHO, you'd get more results just trying it, like I just did. And yes, its worth it, IMHO, if you wanna get a dab down a bit quicker, and to make up for all those variables literally sucking some of the heat out of the dish

My controller has been on 415f for at least 8 hours. I've just done a slight bigger dab than usual. I set the controller to 500f, and lazily put the dab in the dish. Inhaled as long as I could, watching the vapour get thicker. I think I did two inhales like that, and then dropped the controller back down to 415f and finished the dab.

The dab def went down quicker, but didnt finish as harshly as if I'd just let the controller sit at 500f.

Anecdotal, I know, but I do feel its making a difference.

EDIT TO ADD: I know its making a difference, the changes that occur in dish once the cap goes on and inhale starts are well documented.

 

[TheCheeseSmeller]

2-3 minutes is what I was interested in, you didn't mention it in your previous reply. Although I suppose once you get past those first couple of inhales whether it's 2 mins or 10 doesn't make a difference

 

[EmDeemo]

2-3 minutes is what I was interested in, you didn't mention it in your previous reply. Although I suppose once you get past those first couple of inhales whether it's 2 mins or 10 doesn't make a difference

2 to 3 minutes is not relevant, carb cap and inhale changes everything.

EDIT: what I mean is, that 2 to 3 minutes ramps up severely with carb cap use/pressure drop/inhale speed/boiling point lowering blah blah blah

 

[TheCheeseSmeller]

But the carb cap and inhale changes everything regardless of changing the pid temp. The carb cap reduces pressure, as does the inhale. It's difficult to say its the temp change making the difference if its all about the pressure change?

 

[EmDeemo]

But the carb cap and inhale changes everything regardless of changing the pid temp. The carb cap reduces pressure, as does the inhale. It's difficult to say its the temp change making the difference if its all about the pressure change?

Its not all about one thing or the other, its about combined. At the same time as the pressure drop etc is going on, the PID is DROPPING in temp, so making up for that drop is another variable, then having re-set the controller at a much higher value than that temp drop is another variable.

I've been dabbing all day at 415f, but the dab I just did with the above temp change method went down very differently and has punched me round the face like a higher temp dab would.

EDIT: Basically, I'd just like this controller to have a user set boost button

EDIT 2: And then once the carb cap is hot, you've got another big chunk of hot metal adding its funky shit to the equation, which is why/how @FlyingLow up temps with a hot carb cap. Variables.

"Levels, Jerry, LEVELS."

 

[RustyOldNail]

Without a lab accurate way to get inside the cup and measure temps while vaping, I’d say to just follow emmdeemo’s advice and try it. If one feels or believes it works, then that’s all that really counts. My dabs are so short, due to the coughing fits I get at at any temperature, I wouldn’t even have time to reach for the PID controller!

 

[EmDeemo]

Without a lab accurate way to get inside the cup and measure temps while vaping, I’d say to just follow emmdeemo’s advice and try it. If one feels or believes it works, then that’s all that really counts. My dabs are so short, due to the coughing fits I get at ant temperature, I wouldn’t even have time to reach for the PID controller!

Need a boost button!

One thing I did notice just now is that the hit was very much NOT the harshness of a higher temp hit, despite the increase of vapour and speed up of having done the whole dab. It left me without a cough, like a usual 415f hit

I'd have to do days of this test tho to see if the same accumulated lung fuckery I get happened, and like you say, its too short a time (and therefore having to increase the dab to have the time) to keep on going thru this fiddly controller shit

Need a boost button!

EDIT: Just did it again, very effective. Turn up to 520f, add dab, inhale twice, turn temp down, one last inhale, clean up. It was a bit much (as in a fuck load of vapour) but it wasnt lung searing like a high temp dab.

Again, dab went down in less inhales, and its a massive punch round the face

 

[Dubmonkey]

Check in update: tried a ChadBro Terp Trunk v2 cap with the Tbucket last night and compared it against the other caps I have (Dnail channel cap, Coojo cap, NV two hole insulated cap). Have to say the chadbro is the best cap out of the bunch. The v2 can move the pearls if you point the snout again it’s the Tbucket wall and get it real close. It will move the pearls at a not bad rotation speed meaning slow to medium speed.

With the v2 I felt I got more vapor and denser almost when compared to the others.

all testing was done at 421 and with no glob modes.
Thinking of ordering a v3 but not sure the snout will fit a Tbucket as it looks kinda long or to deep for the Tbucket.

back to more 3 day weekend testing...

 

[EmDeemo]

Check in update: tried a ChadBro Terp Trunk v2 cap with the Tbucket last night and compared it against the other caps I have (Dnail channel cap, Coojo cap, NV two hole insulated cap). Have to say the chadbro is the best cap out of the bunch. The v2 can move the pearls if you point the snout again it’s the Tbucket wall and get it real close. It will move the pearls at a not bad rotation speed meaning slow to medium speed.

With the v2 I felt I got more vapor and denser almost when compared to the others.

all testing was done at 421 and with no glob modes.
Thinking of ordering a v3 but not sure the snout will fit a Tbucket as it looks kinda long or to deep for the Tbucket.

back to more 3 day weekend testing...

Thanks for the caps knowledge, very useful.

I think I need glob mode in my life

 

[Dubmonkey]

Ok Terp balls I believe splashed some of the concentrate on to sides and then under the dish. Any tips on how to unstuck a dish from the Tbucket? Got it soaking in everclear. Tried boiling the Ti and dish in boiling water but no movement. Thinking I may have to reassemble and put it on the PID. Then remove and let sapphire cool on glass or ceramic dish. Concerned about thermal shock.

 

[nspatient]

Ok Terp balls I believe splashed some of the concentrate on to sides and then under the dish. Any tips on how to unstuck a dish from the Tbucket? Got it soaking in everclear. Tried boiling the Ti and dish in boiling water but no movement. Thinking I may have to reassemble and put it on the PID. Then remove and let sapphire cool on glass or ceramic dish. Concerned about thermal shock.

I haven't been using terp balls and still seem to get some reclaim under the dish after every session. I ended up having the dish get stuck. I turned the Tbucket upside down over a towel with the coil removed and heated it with a blowdryer. I then used a wooden skewer through the coil cover screw hole to gently unstick it.

I've found soaking the sapphire insert in Krud Kutter for a few hours removes most of the solid reclaim, and then isopropyl and salt takes care of the rest.

Now, I've taken to removing the insert and giving everything a quick clean at the end of a session, because it seems like less work overall.

As far as thermal shock, is concerned. I currently have my Auber set to 570F and I measured the insert at just under 450F with a Thermoworks heavy duty surface probe. Haven't had any issues with dry swabbing hot or gently touching a dabbing tool to it.

 

[RustyOldNail]

I haven't been using terp balls and still seem to get some reclaim under the dish after every session. I ended up having the dish get stuck. I turned the Tbucket upside down over a towel with the coil removed and heated it with a blowdryer. I then used a wooden skewer through the coil cover screw hole to gently unstick it.

I've found soaking the sapphire insert in Krud Kutter for a few hours removes most of the solid reclaim, and then isopropyl and salt takes care of the rest.

Now, I've taken to removing the insert and giving everything a quick clean at the end of a session, because it seems like less work overall.

As far as thermal shock, is concerned. I currently have my Auber set to 570F and I measured the insert at just under 450F with a Thermoworks heavy duty surface probe. Haven't had any issues with dry swabbing hot or gently touching a dabbing tool to it.

GOOD choice on the “ribbon type” probe, I use that as one of my three probes. I prefer the “bell” type probe. On my DCup, I did not do a measurement at 575f, but my measurement at 550f on PID, surface temperature was 490f, (delta of -60f). How long are you holding the probe down for. After a 10 minute warmup, you should get a stable reading in 30 seconds or less. The metal probe head itself can at first placement on Sapphire dish surface can suck a little heat and temporarily drop the PID down a few degrees, it will then begin to quickly recover. There is even a bit more heat sucking with the “bell” tip sensor as it’s a larger, metal head. I find with my “ribbon” type probe, the one you have, needs to have a bit of consistent downward pressure to get the most accurate reading. We seem to have a 40f difference, which is fairly close. You might find a bit more heat temp, if you not already waiting 30 seconds for stable readout. Nice work!

 

[Dubmonkey]

Thanks @nspatient

Just did something similar.

I turned the coil on and placed TBucket upside down on to a ceramic plate. Waited for s few mins and wiped with wtip as much oil seeming from the side.

Getting ready for another great night

 

[EmDeemo]

DCup stuck sapphire dish, I released a few times by turning the unit upside down and gently torching the bottom of the DCup. Turning the PID on and turning it up a little also works, a gentle tap on the body of the DCup released the dish. I also used to do this after any dab where the dish had a little reclaim escaping, give the DCup a gentle wobble and tap to make sure the dish was still lose (helped by the dcup lid obviously not allowing the dish to fall out). I usually let the dish fall out on to a pad of paper I have on my vape station, and leave it too cool.

Pushing a dish out from underneath, using the coil cover hole, was one way I cracked a dish, so I'm not quite down with that method, but I did force it a little too much, thats for sure (my own fault, not necessarily the methods fault).

I stopped using terp pearls with the DCup as they were the cause of the dish over spill. They kick up oil behind them if they move slightly too fast and then you may as well be using a Ti nail.

A too big a dab, combined with a strong inhale WILL pull oil over the edge of the dish around where the air path tube meets the bucket. Reduce inhale speed to stop this, change to a less gluggy water piece, reduce dab size, or turn up the heat or all of the variables to compensate

The only time I've had a tbucket dish stick is by sucking oil over the edge of the dish, which I've only done once or twice knowingly (see above as to why), or by dribbling oil down the side of the tbucket wall off the dabber.

Basically, a stuck dish with the TBucket can be avoided completely (I think I'm giving a disclaimer that this is all just off the top of my head and I reserve the right to disagree with myself in an instant ).

 

[RustyOldNail]

I have had oil spill over a few times now. No longer bother with Terp balls, that’s one potential cause as well as larger dabs, and of course how hot you dab at. Once it migrates down the sides of the dish and eventually getting underneath, it can be hard to deal with. I can tell if the dish might be stuck, because I’m constantly swabbing after every dab, and if my sapphire disk moves/slides just a bit when I’m moving the QTip around, I know it’s not stuck.

If it is stuck, BUMMER... When the oil dries, it’s like GLUE! Since I don’t really want to disconnect my cover and coil every time this may happen, to attempt a ISO soak, I tried to find another, easier way. Besides, the other issue is the two surfaces, the bottom of the titanium cup and bottom of sapphire dish are manufactured extremely smooth, so even a tiny bit of oil, creates a kind of vacuum effect mating the two together, even after I warmed up my DCup to approximately 200f. I could move and slide the sapphire dish, it was loose do to my warming of the metal cup holder. Do to the “vacuum” effect even turning it upside down and light tapping, it would not release. I then had some success by finding a very small “suction cup”, the type in dollar stores that are usually part of some kind of note holder, etc. Found a small one that fits on the top of the sapphire dish (dish has to be ISO clean for suction cup to work). I had to do it a few times, while the cup was slightly warm, but it pulled out, and was far easier then taking the coil apart.

I’ve mentioned this in earlier posts, and I don’t usually hawk cleaning products, but after seeing folks recommended “Simply Green - CRYSTAL” formula for rig cleaning, and a gallon was cheap on Amazon, I gave it a try on the sapphire dish. It needs to sit submerged OVERNIGHT, next day you’ll see a bunch of brown crap floating in your cleaning container, I use a wide glass tiny dish. The sapphire will look like new, and no scrubbing. This is stuff that ISO doesn’t clean at all, which is really odd.

@nspatient
Curious, what is the highest temp you QTip dry swab your Sapphire dish at. When I’m done with a dab, I usually turn the temp down to 250f, to idle it till my next dab, as it reaches 400f, I go in with two QTips. I only ISO swab when surface is at or near room temperature. Thanks.

 

[EmDeemo]

I then had some success by finding a very small “suction cup”, the type in dollar stores that are usually part of some kind of note holder, etc. Found a small one that fits on the top of the sapphire dish (dish has to be ISO clean for suction cup to work). I had to do it a few times, while the cup was slightly warm, but it pulled out, and was far easier then taking the coil apart.

I fucking love that you have a suction cup especially for stuck dishes

EDIT: @Dubmonkey I asked Augusthaus if they'd consider supporting the NV line, they basically said 'we dont have plans, but with enough interest, we'll look into it'. I think I might be adding the kubeone to my shopping list...

 

[RustyOldNail]

I fucking love that you have a suction cup especially for stuck dishes

EDIT: @Dubmonkey I asked Augusthaus if they'd consider supporting the NV line, they basically said 'we dont have plans, but with enough interest, we'll look into it'. I think I might be adding the kubeone to my shopping list...

Ha, you know I’m SICK, not SIC, though I did buy one as a backup, on my 2nd Sapphire dish now, and as you know, they ain’t cheap, but nothing like a super clean surface, our lungs thank us. Dam, you were the one that sold me on these GEMS!!!!

 

[EmDeemo]

Ha, you know I’m SICK, not SIC, though I did buy one as a backup, on my 2nd Sapphire dish now, and as you know, they ain’t cheap, but nothing like a super clean surface, our lungs thank us. Dam, you were the one that sold me on these GEMS!!!!

How did the first sapphire break? Share your shame