JoeKickass

Well-Known Member
Oddly, I didn't have to adjust nearly as much when using it in conduction mode.
That makes sense because more voltage increases power exponentially, not linearly
With the very first release of the FV, we did not design the unit to have an user serviceable heating element screen as we were afraid of damage to this vital part if the unit was able to be disassembled.
Is serial # S11010020 part of this non-servicable group?

I think I have an original FV, and my s2 ran hot because I used aw imr's and not FV's s2 batteries, so hopefully some new batteries will offer that nice cool s2 experience.
Speaking of JKA? Where yat?
Still here :)
 
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YeeeBuddy

Well-Known Member
I got my new style S2 spacer today and realllly love it. I don't think my FV is running hot I can hit it with the power on for 10+ seconds without combustion. I would like to write more but my desktop broke and posting from my iPhone is annoying.
 
YeeeBuddy,

stickstones

Vapor concierge
so are the cooler running units earlier production units? I'm guessing a change was made at some point to make them hotter, otherwise we would have manufacturing discrepancies.
 
stickstones,

pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
so are the cooler running units earlier production units? I'm guessing a change was made at some point to make them hotter, otherwise we would have manufacturing discrepancies.

I assumed that the difference was unintentional but FlashVAPE told me that they've made some internal changes to improve current flow and as a result newer units run hotter. I don't know when this happened.

Is serial # S11010020 part of this non-servicable group?

I'm pretty sure you are. I once asked about the serial numbers and if I understood correctly, the first four digits distinguish various models, i.e. 1101 is a black model, 1201 means silver. The last four digits identify the unit, so 0020 would be one of the earliest.
 

FlashVAPE

...fast and efficient ! http://flashvape.com
Manufacturer
So I am confused.. Will I have to buy a new FV or can I convert mine to this?

If you can unscrew that top ceramic bowl retainer piece, you will be able to change the heating element screen exactly as outlined, with the photo illustrations.

In earlier models of the FV, this retainer piece is secured with loctite glue on the threads so it does not open easily once dried, also the wiring did not incorporate the APR concept, and was not designed to be replaceable. the unit was more of a SEALED unit. However, with the help of a good rubber strap wretch, it is likely to open with a bit of force.

Current production models do not have loctite applied, so this retainer piece can be easily unscrewed, and the heating element screen replaced. it must be mentioned that the current model is still not totally APR yet. we are still putting together the final pieces to make the APR version a reality soon. however, I think having the ability to change the heating element is a major step forward.

We really are always looking at ways to make the FV better and more reliable, as well as address user concerns and problems that may arise along the way. This means that changes will have to be implement once in a while to update the different design aspects of the FV, be it internal parts, or adding useful accessories. We hope for all current owners kind understanding in this regard. We don't want anyone to feel like we are leaving old customers behind in any way with design updates. It is simply our goal to always improve the FV to make it even better, where ever possible :)
 

FlashVAPE

...fast and efficient ! http://flashvape.com
Manufacturer
FV...would it be considered an improvement to adjust the current flow to make combustion impossible? Or is the current configuration what you consider optimal?

With the current design of the FV, without adding additional components, it is not possible to completely eliminate the possibility of combustion. We would have to implement more complicated electronic controls in place for that to happen.

Again, we are always looking at ways to make combustion less likely using different things like the additional second screen (the replaceable tabbed screen), the new S2 spacer, etc. However, the real key to avoiding combustion when using the FV lies in the techniques you can master with practice. The FV is an user controlled vape. How long you power-on for (continuously, or pulsing the power), and the speed at which you draw out vapor with power-on etc. determines the vaping temperature inside the bowl, and with practice and adjusting your technique, you can keep it below the combustion point and produce great pure vapor hits.
 

nopartofme

Over the falls, in a barrel
It really impresses me that the APR concept is being pursued. Nowadays I find all the hardware and software around me being sealed up at the edges. It's such a breath of fresh air to see the opposite here. Really, the good will shown here is astounding!

I've had one of these on my wishlist for a long time. I'm excited to make that wish a reality with an APR model! Looking forward to future announcements, as always you guys never stop surprising…
 

satyrday

Well-Known Member
I really impresses me that the APR concept is being pursued. Nowadays I find all the hardware and software around me being sealed up at the edges. It's such a breath of fresh air to see the opposite here. Really, the good will shown here is astounding!

I've had one of these on my wishlist for a long time. I'm excited to make that wish a reality with an APR model! Looking forward to future announcements, as always you guys never stop surprising…
Not only "Replaceable," but easily accessible is welcome. Like a car from the 50s vs nowadays. Car makers conspiracy to make more money on service, or the necessary outcome of increased complexity? Either way, it takes a lot of the fun out of being a hands-on car owner.
 

nopartofme

Over the falls, in a barrel
Not only "Replaceable," but easily accessible is welcome. Like a car from the 50s vs nowadays. Car makers conspiracy to make more money on service, or the necessary outcome of increased complexity? Either way, it takes a lot of the fun out of being a hands-on car owner.
Yep, not to mention all that proprietary code running on CPU's in cars nowadays… The Toyota affair is just one example. I find it hard to get comfortable philosophically while riding in a car that has inscrutable "machinery" ticking away inside its computer.
 

Vitolo

Vaporist
FV...would it be considered an improvement to adjust the current flow to make combustion impossible? Or is the current configuration what you consider optimal?
If it were plugged in you would use a rheastat.(like a dimmer switch)
Battery powered devices dont traditionally use a rheastat.....
EXCEPT in the case of the "vibrating Dildo"....
whose bottom plate is the on/off switch and also the speed adjustment..
(done with a lighter duty expanding contact- like the dimmer switch).

Could one use a lower voltage battery for the result that stick speaks of?
 
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Pipes

Addicted DIY Enthusiast
Accessory Maker
I'm thinking with the different results I have read about combustion times and what not. Maybe the spacers could come in a kit with 2-3 depths to choose from?....We do like to see the glow. (in the bowl too)
Just an idea.

BTW, I am also fortunate enough to have a newer release of the FV. It's calming down a bit now but for the first couple days I dare not leave the switch on till you actually see the vapor as would be too late. Was pushing for 1-2 seconds and release while checking for the vapor with small puffs, would add a few button pulses and vapor would come fast and furious. Took a few bowls to harness the sucker. Now it is still getting hot quick but can at least keep the button on till I see vapor before immediately entering the pulse mode. Actually very much as in S1 mode.

The new double threading goes on with a lot less turns but starting can still be fiddly to get started. As is the nature of the beast though. Seems to give the hard time more when in a hurry of course. Not a surprise.

For those who have sore hands from trying to remove the top section, some are glued too tight and too much frustration will lead to bad cosmetic damage and still no joy. IMHO, the rubber strap is as far as you should try. Do not vise.....Been there and it's not pretty.

Love to see a product improve which is already close to perfection. Every little bit helps and hope for many more down the road. Go FV Go. At least FV listens, un-like our Leafs. Grrrr.
 

stickstones

Vapor concierge
as for the different results, I am satisfied that we had the following going on: paka has an early cooler unit, I have a newer hot unit, and jka was using different batteries. so I see enough there to account for the variances I have seen.

that doesn't address, however, the reports of units 'calming down' or 'cooling down'. if it's explainable and expected, then fine. but I can't explain it and I have never seen it before in other models.
 
stickstones,

pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
that doesn't address, however, the reports of units 'calming down' or 'cooling down'. if it's explainable and expected, then fine. but I can't explain it and I have never seen it before in other models.

There have been a few reports of hot MFLBs cooling off a little after a break-in, but it's not a universal effect. It's been suggested to me that the FV might also cool a little after a few uses, but I haven't used the new one enough to know whether this will happen to mine.

As far as I know, these changes affect all new units. They'll all run hotter than the early FVs. My biggest concern about this is that the tip sheet FlashVAPE provides needs re-working. If you follow those tips with a new unit, you run a high chance of combustion.
 

Pipes

Addicted DIY Enthusiast
Accessory Maker
It's a tough one to explain all right. Another tough one which falls in the same mystery is....
Been biting my tongue on if I should mention this or not, but might help to explain this so, I have also found that reversing the battery brings the temp back up significantly but also calms down after a few bowls. Also this seems to even out the screen's hot spot (discolouration).
Any theories? OF, I know you must have one. Maybe the same idea as to why the positive post on a car battery is larger than the negative. I use to know why...lol, getting too old. (and I'm asking OF? the man knows it all AND retains it)

On a cool different topic (don't want to double post) about this unit is that I can use my AVB from my Bulli and fill the bowl to get 2-3 more good pulls. My co-worker who also owns a FV does the same with his AVB from his PAX.
 

stickstones

Vapor concierge
it's got to be the batteries, so that may be something to it, pipes. nothing else in the unit is changing.

this is the only unit/only batts that it didn't matter which way they went in the unit. it does matter on the charger, though.
 
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satyrday

Well-Known Member
it's got to be the batteries, so that may be something to it, pipes. nothing else in the unit is changing.

this is the only unit/only batts that it didn't matter which way they went in the unit. it does matter on the charger, though.
I wondered about that so always put them in pos side up. Definitely never one down and one up - seems like that might get real strange! But you're right, the instructions seemed pretty loose on the matter.
 
satyrday,

Pipes

Addicted DIY Enthusiast
Accessory Maker
it's got to be the batteries, so that may be something to it, pipes. nothing else in the unit is changing.

this is the only unit/only batts that it didn't matter which way they went in the unit. it does matter on the charger, though.
It can be explained much better from I can explain, but IIRC.
It has to do with heavy current and the electrons passing the barrier of a connection. The positive side (the electron receiver) gets hot do to the electron bombardment where the negative side stays cooler.
At least that's my understanding. Now how it fits here??? Just kind of guessing.
 
Pipes,

OF

Well-Known Member
Any theories? OF, I know you must have one. Maybe the same idea as to why the positive post on a car battery is larger than the negative. I use to know why...lol, getting too old. (and I'm asking OF? the man knows it all AND retains it)

Beats me. Maybe the the electrons find it easier running downhill through the body, with gravity rather than against it? I mean don't we all hold them window up?

AFIAK auto battery terminals are different size to keep fools in gas stations from putting them in wrong way 'round. The post and clamp are both the same material (nearly pure lead) so it really doesn't matter from an electrical POV, it's a mechanical thing. BTW, some serious current goes through there sometimes. 500 Amps is not uncommon for compacts. Big Ford and Chevy V8s can run a thousand. Chrysler went to the compound starter just to try to get this back in line. In electrical terms car battery cables (and ground straps) are woefully undersize (copper is expensive...).

OF
 
OF,
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Pipes

Addicted DIY Enthusiast
Accessory Maker
Beats me. Maybe the the electrons find it easier running downhill through the body, with gravity rather than against it? I mean don't we all hold them window up?

AFIAK auto battery terminals are different size to keep fools in gas stations from putting them in wrong way 'round.

OF
OK, car battery a bad example? Like your logic though. :D A better example might be in arc welding. Positive goes to rod for a larger bead (hotter side). I read they reverse the polarity for a lesser bead. AC is in between. Found some info on this here in a different forum.
Anyway was just a theory. Maybe Flash can explain more or I'm just loosen it.
 
Pipes,

FlashVAPE

...fast and efficient ! http://flashvape.com
Manufacturer
actually, the best way I can explain how the circuitry works in the FV is to look at internal resistance (mΩ). The electron flows from + to - in a DC circuit (as found in the FV). So if we look at it like a highway, the part with the highest internal resistance is like the bottleneck where there is going to be a traffic jam. As the electrons flow through the heating element screen (the part of the circuit with the highest resistance), heat is produced as the huge flow of electrons try to squeeze through against the higher internal resistance of screen. it will always be slightly hotter on the side where there are more electrons waiting to pass through, so we sometimes see a slightly different burn pattern on the screen. please note this does not impact performance as regardless where and how the heat is being produced on the screen, it has very little differentiating effect on the vapor being produced.


Now if we were to reverse the polarity, the positive electron's traffic jam starts on the other side of the screen, so the hot spots which leaves the burn pattern/carbon spotting behind gets reversed, or what appears to be "evened out" afterwards. does that make sense?
 

OF

Well-Known Member
it will always be slightly hotter on the side where there are more electrons waiting to pass through, so we sometimes see a slightly different burn pattern on the screen. please note this does not impact performance as regardless where and how the heat is being produced on the screen, it has very little differentiating effect on the vapor being produced.


Now if we were to reverse the polarity, the positive electron's traffic jam starts on the other side of the screen, so the hot spots which leaves the burn pattern/carbon spotting behind gets reversed, or what appears to be "evened out" afterwards. does that make sense?

Yes, but while it might make sense to some of us, it doesn't to the electrons. And it's what they think and do that matters.

Current is the more or less orderly flow in one direction. In reality, the 'free electrons flow randomly around atom to atom (or they wouldn't conduct), much like individual water molecules in a pipe. Put some pressure on that water (voltage is electrical pressure) and you get a net flow in one direction who's magnitude is set by the pressure (voltage) and opposition to flow (resistance) and some 'magic factor' to do with water that relates those two to flow rates (Ohm's Law in our case).

As in the water pipe analogy there's no difference between those entering one point or leaving another really, an electron goes into the wire on one end and a different one comes out the other. But it's one for one and they are interchangeable. A light bulb filament is heated the same in either direction, the heating happens atom by atom.

This is not true when you cheat conduction like in a vacuum tube where the electrons leave metal conductors and venture into free space. Lighting is similar. Here the mass of the electrons (tiny as it is) combines with the square of their speed such that the power (heat) is developed on impact not in the free flight. The positive plate (anode) glows where the beam hits. But that's not us......at least as I understand it. Weld heat works this way. As do say carbon arc electrodes.

Bad wiring burns out where the weak connection is without regard to which way it flows.

As an interesting point, we had it wrong from the start. Current is actually defined as plus to minus, go look it up. Conventional Current (the way we believed it to happen initially) is not the same as Electron Flow (what we now know to be true). Text books are written 'both ways', the instructor picks. The arrows and such go the other way in the other book. I learned Conventional Current (so called because it was the convention.....) even though we knew it was 'backwards' (it doesn't matter, of course, really) but taught Electron Flow later on. From time to time I'd screw up and slip back.....the more blank than normal look on the student's face was always a good clue there.... Same Ohm's Law. Same heat.

When I went to school initially it was easy 'current goes from top to bottom and signal from left to right' was the rule for schematic circuit drawings. Not so any more.

I joke about electrons going uphill and all, but that's not how it works. Resistance causes friction (superconductors, no resistance, don't heat) at the local level. Think if it as a room full of people. Push one in one door, and another (different) one leaves by another door. Inside the room, people still mill about randomly, but 'the average guy' moves a little bit toward the out door?

OF
 

RUDE BOY

Space is the Place
It's a tough one to explain all right. Another tough one which falls in the same mystery is....
Been biting my tongue on if I should mention this or not, but might help to explain this so, I have also found that reversing the battery brings the temp back up significantly but also calms down after a few bowls.
Thanx Pipes . OK , now after reversing the battery I can see using my Flashvape with the spacer . My unit definitely runs cool . I have a theology Kinda mind i'm lost dealing with the physical sciences , OF love reading yours and others posts about batteries , electron flow etc . Just wish I could keep it all straight but for now I'll ask questions .
If I reverse the battery every few bowls will I keep having better results ?
will I damage the unit or batteries if I do this often ?

I've been using my FV in conduction mode with the 3.7V batteries since recieving the S2 kit in february and love it that way but would like to be able to take full advantage of the S2 mode also .
I quess I'm asking ,
Will reversing the batteries be the fix to use it once in a while with the spacer or will the effects of doing so diminish enough in time to warrant seeking a replacement unit ?

Thanx All , Hope I made sense .
 
RUDE BOY,

Pipes

Addicted DIY Enthusiast
Accessory Maker
You have good questions there RB. I think we're hitting some hard to explain territory here and best answered with feedback here and advise from Flash.
My case was more severe as in the temp was dropping to an unusable state. I found reversing the battery brought it up to usable temperature again but was short lived.
My co-worker verified the temperature increase with his unit as well and he was the one who noticed it evened out the colouration in the heater screen. He now routinely alternates his battery polarity. At least the last we talked about it. His temp change also evened out between the polarity changeover as well. Note he never had performance problems but had a couple hotter bowls when first changed the polarity.
A good mystery indeed.
 
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