Are you saying the charger does not shut off when the battery is full? Sure sounds like that is your point.......
Discontinued The Grasshopper
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Vaporific
All who wander are not lost...
Interesting few posts on the merits of chargers. I like the ‘trickle’ feature and it makes sense. On a whim I went to the Nitecore site and this was offered for the D2 (which I have, and I have the I4 too):
Took a couple of nice low temp and very flavorful draws on the ride to the holiday meal - too bad traffic stunk! 
- Automatically stops charging when complete.
- Integrated LCD panel clearly displays charging mode, voltage, current and progress
- Reverse polarity protection
- Over-charge prevention to protect batteries
Took a couple of nice low temp and very flavorful draws on the ride to the holiday meal - too bad traffic stunk! Interesting few posts on the merits of chargers. I like the ‘trickle’ feature and it makes sense. On a whim I went to the Nitecore site and this was offered for the D2 (which I have, and I have the I4 too):
Not sure whether the first and last bullets preclude ‘trickle’ but it sounds like you can’t overcharge them. They’ve both served me well though. And speaking of served, I’m stuffed!
- Automatically stops charging when complete.
- Integrated LCD panel clearly displays charging mode, voltage, current and progress
- Reverse polarity protection
- Over-charge prevention to protect batteries
I use an efest luc v4 for all of my LI ion cells. I have always left the batteries in it until I remember to take them out with no problems. According to the specs it stops at 4.2v and restarts again if they drop below 4.1v. Seems to do the job quite well.
vapviking
Old & In the Way
Folks, re; battery chargers and among other things, trickle charge.
I've only been repeating what I think @MoltenTiger has tried to tell us a couple of times in recent history. Rather than 2nd hand from me yet again, I'll suggest you read his recent posts, one among which is only 1 page back, where he cites data he collected himself, and recommends the Xtar MC2. I have developed a lot of respect for and confidence in things he tells us here.
Peace.
Edit;
I've mentioned here already (so won't go into again) that I have had 2 l-ion batteries 'vent' in my bedroom in recent history, so I apologize for taking a hard line with the 'abundance of caution' approach lately. Something about the sight & smell of combustion in my dresser drawer just doesn't sit well...
I've only been repeating what I think @MoltenTiger has tried to tell us a couple of times in recent history. Rather than 2nd hand from me yet again, I'll suggest you read his recent posts, one among which is only 1 page back, where he cites data he collected himself, and recommends the Xtar MC2. I have developed a lot of respect for and confidence in things he tells us here.
Peace.
Edit;
I've mentioned here already (so won't go into again) that I have had 2 l-ion batteries 'vent' in my bedroom in recent history, so I apologize for taking a hard line with the 'abundance of caution' approach lately. Something about the sight & smell of combustion in my dresser drawer just doesn't sit well...
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triskelion
Member
D4 has a low charging function,long-press the bottom yellow button till the low indicator appears on the screen.
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Yes, it will reduce amperage automatically or you can select manually the lower charging.
When the battery is full, it goes to .2 milliamp....that's 2/10s of a milliamps. Tha's 0.0002 amps
Now, I'm not saying its better than the Xtar....but I do believe that they are both very similar chargers with very similar feature sets.
Get what makes you comfortable. I've been using my D4 for at least 3 years...maybe a bit longer. Still works gret.
MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
Slow charging will tend towards extra charge cycles as it's more forgiving on the cell, it's not a matter of safety rather one of longevity, though it depends on the specific chemistry and with the imminent fast charger, a lot more than 1A is getting piped in to achieve 15 min recharges
[in my further reading, I discovered @BuzzDanklin mention Matt told him 2A was too much, but about the limit]
As it is these batteries are rated for a high rate discharge... ~45W=battery voltage * ~11A, that's some juice. The capacity is ~750mAh and so proportionally it is worse to leave these cells in the charger once they are finished than say a 3000mAh LG HG2 - it is a bad practice and potentially dangerous either way.
But, if it takes 40x the time to reach the same overcharge level then it is much safer to leave the cells on one over the other. I never deliberately overcharge my cells, but being that these cells are used to get blasted, sometimes it happens, and when it does I have no qualms because science.
I'd recommend looking at 3rd party analysis over the marketeering bullet points provided by the profiteers.
Don't get me wrong, the Nitecores are renowned charges for a reason, and are great for 18650s. But the hopper cell is quite different and any random LiIon cylinder charger is going to work, but the performance will tend to be better from charges better suited to small size cells. There isn't a 3rd party charger that's officially recommended by the OEM for a reason. These GHBs are custom so using a charger that handles them well is best practice.
My old batteries (~2 years on*) are still pumping out clouds and for multiple chambers, so I am more confident in the Xtar than ever for this purpose. Plus, the cells fit snug, the size is very portable and it is USB Micro-B powered so it can be used on-the-go, which a portable vape that is this powerful requires or at least massively benefits from.
As long as you grab the cell off the charger as soon as it is done, there's only small differences in functionality regarding power metering tolerances and usability aspects that makes the Nitecores worse. But they are also more expensive as well as technically inferior, so beyond my logic, the Xtar is by far the better buy. But both brands are about as reputable as each other, and the GH charger is made to charge these custom cells, so it's not like anyone needs to do anything.
If you already have a Nitecore, well then, use it and don't abuse it. Is it worth 15 bucks to be able to easily have a better-for-GHBs portable charger?
VapViking will be better able to know than me. But I assume he will be happy to upgrade.
*My old cells, which are just about always charged with the MC2, are working well enough that I didn't feel the need to buy any of the new batch, or request that the 3 purchased with my HBC pre-order were sent out. I'm still getting fat clouds years later.
On a better topic, much more mysterious, I have a bubbler that causes darker ABV and bigger clouds. I have no idea why? But I'm loving it.
I've taken a T-break all week, time to mull up some chocolate poison and rip the custom bubbler and GH!
[in my further reading, I discovered @BuzzDanklin mention Matt told him 2A was too much, but about the limit]
As it is these batteries are rated for a high rate discharge... ~45W=battery voltage * ~11A, that's some juice. The capacity is ~750mAh and so proportionally it is worse to leave these cells in the charger once they are finished than say a 3000mAh LG HG2 - it is a bad practice and potentially dangerous either way.
But, if it takes 40x the time to reach the same overcharge level then it is much safer to leave the cells on one over the other. I never deliberately overcharge my cells, but being that these cells are used to get blasted, sometimes it happens, and when it does I have no qualms because science.
I'd recommend looking at 3rd party analysis over the marketeering bullet points provided by the profiteers.
Don't get me wrong, the Nitecores are renowned charges for a reason, and are great for 18650s. But the hopper cell is quite different and any random LiIon cylinder charger is going to work, but the performance will tend to be better from charges better suited to small size cells. There isn't a 3rd party charger that's officially recommended by the OEM for a reason. These GHBs are custom so using a charger that handles them well is best practice.
My old batteries (~2 years on*) are still pumping out clouds and for multiple chambers, so I am more confident in the Xtar than ever for this purpose. Plus, the cells fit snug, the size is very portable and it is USB Micro-B powered so it can be used on-the-go, which a portable vape that is this powerful requires or at least massively benefits from.
As long as you grab the cell off the charger as soon as it is done, there's only small differences in functionality regarding power metering tolerances and usability aspects that makes the Nitecores worse. But they are also more expensive as well as technically inferior, so beyond my logic, the Xtar is by far the better buy. But both brands are about as reputable as each other, and the GH charger is made to charge these custom cells, so it's not like anyone needs to do anything.
If you already have a Nitecore, well then, use it and don't abuse it. Is it worth 15 bucks to be able to easily have a better-for-GHBs portable charger?
VapViking will be better able to know than me. But I assume he will be happy to upgrade.
*My old cells, which are just about always charged with the MC2, are working well enough that I didn't feel the need to buy any of the new batch, or request that the 3 purchased with my HBC pre-order were sent out. I'm still getting fat clouds years later.
On a better topic, much more mysterious, I have a bubbler that causes darker ABV and bigger clouds. I have no idea why? But I'm loving it.
I've taken a T-break all week, time to mull up some chocolate poison and rip the custom bubbler and GH!
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Baron23
Well-Known Member
In what specific metric is the performance better, please?
MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
the tolerance of the voltmeter in the circuit. The Xtars are more accurate, the Nitecore I can see has an accuracy of ±0.03 (the readout also cannot exceed "4.20" so can't really be trusted). I have found the Xtars accuracy before, don't know if I can dig it up as quickly. But 0.03V isn't great, but good enough. The Xtars are very efficient and well regarded. The Nitecores are too, but specifically for the flashlight enthusiasts and nicotine fiends vaping on 18650s. And even still, the Xtar does do a better job.
Well, even the datasheet of the Xtar doesn't state accuracy, and I can't find a post where I mentioned it... looking back two years, maybe I'm wrong.
But, in terms of charging small cells, slow rates by default and a lack of overcharging potential is the metric in question. Higher measuring tolerances (the Xtar can detect 4.12V and 4.20V so it should have greater than ±0.03V tolerance, but alas I can't be bothered to further search to find a concrete figure). It is time to clean some glass and bring out the BCG.
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ChooChooCharlie
Well-Known Member
MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
I don't think I ever started using it. I had the original design, which ended up being redesigned to lessen the prying force when removing it, the back-end is ... variably assembled, and vulnerable.Remind me, please
Why did folks stop using mag charger?
I prefer tapping 15 min button
follows advice from BU and @OF
still rockin, good results
I really like the new charger, but I am in the habbit of a gun slinger, having a heap of rounds ready to go and rapid firing. I have it down to a fine art.
This has been cached online since 2016
Sad that TinyPic is no more.
I find if I use the magnetic charger I forget about it, and I don't like leaving it charging unattended. I kind of thought with multiple units, I'd always have one plugged in, and would just opt for the blue blinking unit. But I find I like to deplete bowls, and then it takes long enough to charge in the unit, I prefer to hot swap a fresh cell. Plus I am more comfortable with accidentally leaving cells on the Xtar, it's just easier. And it's been a staple part of my portable kit for years now.
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Vaporific
All who wander are not lost...
I’ve hardly started using it too, just recently have I used it a bit. Primarily in my car (I only have one mag charger cord). At home I use the Nitecores. With the dwindling older battery supply I started using the mag charger a bit but relatively seldom. It does work but how well I’m unsure. I try to remove the batts from the Nitecores when they’re done charging, occasionally leaving them in longer. It is what it is.I don't think I ever started using it. I had the original design, which ended up being redesigned to lessen the prying force when removing it, the back-end is ... variably assembled, and vulnerable.
I really like the new charger, but I am in the habbit of a gun slinger, having a heap of rounds ready to go and rapid firing. I have it down to a fine art.
This has been cached online since 2016
Sad that TinyPic is no more.
I find if I use the magnetic charger I forget about it, and I don't like leaving it charging unattended. I kind of thought with multiple units, I'd always have one plugged in, and would just opt for the blue blinking unit. But I find I like to deplete bowls, and then it takes long enough to charge in the unit, I prefer to hot swap a fresh cell. Plus I am more comfortable with accidental leaving cells on the Xtar, it's just easier. And it's a staple part of my portable kit.
The biggest thing I’ve noticed with the batteries, not the chargers, is that they’re not all the same. I’ve had a few duds in the few batches I’ve purchased. The new ones seem to be pretty consistent but I may have one that’s not quite like the others. This to me indicates there’s still quality control issues with the battery supplier. While I wish the fire on no one, there’s just a bit of uncertainty about the batteries from my experience and if HL can right this going forward I think they’ve covered all the bases with everything as of late. My RMA’d unit still rocks and I’ve been enjoying it since it’s been back though the fire and battery scare still resonates a bit. But the new ones worked well for me until I stopped using them (per HL) and I’ve just begun to introduce a couple of them into my battery rotation.
My Nitecore SC4 is great as it tells you the health(internal resistance) of each cell. It can also pump in up to 3amp for a fast charge and you can tell it to stop charging at 3.7v to make batteries last longer (like Mil Spec do). My Nitecore also has not blown up like my Xtar VC4, maybe their newer VP4 is built better.
MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
Yeah, being a custom size and chem, these cells will vary for the end user to a greater degree than ordinarily off-the-shelf batteries. It's a caveat with trying to get this much power out of something this small.I’ve hardly started using it too, just recently have I used it a bit. Primarily in my car (I only have one mag charger cord). At home I use the Nitecores. With the dwindling older battery supply I started using the mag charger a bit but relatively seldom. It does work but how well I’m unsure. I try to remove the batts from the Nitecores when they’re done charging, occasionally leaving them in longer. It is what it is.
The biggest thing I’ve noticed with the batteries, not the chargers, is that they’re not all the same. I’ve had a few duds in the few batches I’ve purchased. The new ones seem to be pretty consistent but I may have one that’s not quite like the others. This to me indicates there’s still quality control issues with the battery supplier. While I wish the fire on no one, there’s just a bit of uncertainty about the batteries from my experience and if HL can right this going forward I think they’ve covered all the bases with everything as of late. My RMA’d unit still rocks and I’ve been enjoying it since it’s been back though the fire and battery scare still resonates a bit. But the new ones worked well for me until I stopped using them (per HL) and I’ve just begun to introduce a couple of them into my battery rotation.
It's largely why no one else will manage this, and with the state of obtaining commercial qty batteries right now and the pinch on production, no one will muster something as small and as powerful for some time.
And we will be waiting a while for the next batch from HL, it'll be months on months.
2A is the quoted limited rate for the GHB.My Nitecore SC4 is great as it tells you the health(internal resistance) of each sell. It can also pump in up to 3amp for a fast charge and you can tell it to stop charging at 3.7v to make batteries last longer (like Mil Spec do). My Nitecore also has not blown up like my Xtar VC$, maybe their newer VP4 is built better.
You would be able to measure the variable resistance these mixed binned cells will have. I was going to say that to Vaporific, if he has a multimeter, you'll get a much, much more accurate readout than any charger offers. Even a cheap multimeter.
I don't think the VC Xtar models are that comparable with the MC2, more akin to the Nitecore D4. I am specifically talking about the MC2 with GHBs. The Nitecores are really good for whatever else you may have, and they will do a much better job than my shitty Jaycar special. Digitech is all shit. Killed my GHBs in 7 months with it, which is mostly why I think it pays to get a good spec. Nitecore is so close to ideal anyway, I really shouldn't carry my disdain to their brand. But the Xtar MC2 specifically matches the specs of the US mains powered eFest (top tier) charger that HL linked to at one very early point. The SS Cylinder HBC is going to be an awesome thing to eventually receive. But still, the Xtar is more portable and works so well. I'll still be using it I'm sure.
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It is good to hear you mention the efest as “top tier”. I have been using mine for years.
So, what makes the efest better?
MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
the schematics.
All these chargers "do the same thing". They take power from a source and transform it out in measured amounts until it calculates the cell has reached a desired level. It then does what it can to keep monitoring the cell and trickle charges.
When you buy top tier, you get better designed and selected componentry which enables more accurate measuring and better precision, shielding and isolation.
If something equates 4.23V as = 4.20V and reports as such, and then continues to charge at some rate (or if it measures 4.20V as 4.17V and keeps charging at a high rate [relative to 0.2mA]), and it's left for many more hours than it normally takes to charge a cell...
4.30V is typically when things go bang. But it also affects the integrity of the cell. It's like a spring, over stretching a spring will kill its elasticity.
I have definitively breached the rated charge cycle with a few cells charging via the MC2, and they are still going strong.
The MC1 and MC2 are known to typically report the cells are completely charged just before they are at 100%, and so basically it prevents ever exceeding 4.20V, and it measures this quite accurately. So does the Efest. It means you can safely charge these low capacity cells without fear of bulging them up, even if you leave them on accidentally, overnight or even longer. Common cause of fires, especially when using unregulated bottom tier ebay crap with bigger cells that are far more volatile and explosive. Most bigger cells are protected internally, I doubt the GHB at 63mm is.
Anway, more importantly, I've just had half a chamber and I'm ripped
Gave my plain Ti RMA'd hopper a complete clean. Threads, battery contact/pcb, battery barrel, whole body+upper chamber light iso papertowling, compressed air, bluetack over the internal back-end threads and on the back end itself, plus bluetacked the intake holes. Stopped short of sanding the back-end battery terminal. Deoxit gold finish I think has been negligible, I've still had to clean at about the same rate. Looks clean, so maybe it helps. Probably mostly on the back end brass negative terminal.
Far out, a new chamber and straight to 5 on the torus. A little technique, try toking at a varied rate instead of at a constant rate. Imagine like a vacuum cleaner with a variable airflow dial, intake as if that dial is being adjusted smoothly from min to max repetitively. Absolutely hoppered. It's so damn good. Really minimal tolerance and the hopper is beyond top tier. Just incredible.
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RUDE BOY
Space is the Place
Remind me, please
Why did folks stop using mag charger?
I prefer tapping 15 min button
follows advice from BU and @OF
still rockin, good results
@ChooChooCharlie what timer / wall charger is this? TIA.
vapviking
Old & In the Way
Really enjoyed catching a buzz with you this morning (morning here, anyway).the schematics.
All these chargers "do the same thing". They take power from a source and transform it out in measured amounts until it calculates the cell has reached a desired level. It then does what it can to keep monitoring the cell and trickle charges.
When you buy top tier, you get better designed and selected componentry which enables more accurate measuring and better precision, shielding and isolation.
If something equates 4.23V as = 4.20V and reports as such, and then continues to charge at some rate (or if it measures 4.20V as 4.17V and keeps charging at a high rate [relative to 0.2mA]), and it's left for many more hours than it normally takes to charge a cell...
4.30V is typically when things go bang. But it also affects the integrity of the cell. It's like a spring, over stretching a spring will kill its elasticity.
I have definitively breached the rated charge cycle with a few cells charging via the MC2, and they are still going strong.
The MC1 and MC2 are known to typically report the cells are completely charged just before they are at 100%, and so basically it prevents ever exceeding 4.20V, and it measures this quite accurately. So does the Efest. It means you can safely charge these low capacity cells without fear of bulging them up, even if you leave them on accidentally, overnight or even longer. Common cause of fires, especially when using unregulated bottom tier ebay crap with bigger cells that are far more volatile and explosive. Most bigger cells are protected internally, I doubt the GHB at 63mm is.
Anway, more importantly, I've just had half a chamber and I'm ripped
Gave my plain Ti RMA'd hopper a complete clean. Threads, battery contact/pcb, battery barrel, whole body+upper chamber light iso papertowling, compressed air, bluetack over the internal back-end threads and on the back end itself, plus bluetacked the intake holes. Stopped short of sanding the back-end battery terminal. Deoxit gold finish I think has been negligible, I've still had to clean at about the same rate. Looks clean, so maybe it helps. Probably mostly on the back end brass negative terminal.
Far out, a new chamber and straight to 5 on the torus. A little technique, try toking at a varied rate instead of at a constant rate. Imagine like a vacuum cleaner with a variable airflow dial, intake as if that dial is being adjusted smoothly from min to max repetitively. Absolutely hoppered. It's so damn good. Really minimal tolerance and the hopper is beyond top tier. Just incredible.
I love the depth represented in the FC forum, as well as all the interchange. And these discussions that literally are span the globe...
Small world, unlimited potential.
ChooChooCharlie
Well-Known Member
@RUDE BOY - Here's a link, or via The Specials, a message to you Rudee
https://amazon.com/dp/B01BV34WSK
If I notice extra flickering during draw, tap 30 min button. Glance at it charging, if I see blue full light, I curse and tap the off button. Prefer not fully charging
https://amazon.com/dp/B01BV34WSK
If I notice extra flickering during draw, tap 30 min button. Glance at it charging, if I see blue full light, I curse and tap the off button. Prefer not fully charging
I have a little teaser of what is to come above. You can find the reservation page here. I have posted this on FC first, the wider public will not know until tonight. We appreciate the support you have given us and know you will love what we have built. This device is going to change everything, even for those who own Grasshoppers already!
p.s. - New batteries will be starting to be made at the factory in the next week or two. It will still take awhile.
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MonkeyTime
Well-Known Member
Consider me reserved! Why does that look like an 18650 unit to me?
I am almost ready to reserve one.....FC needs more details please. Will it take GHB’s or ??????
I have a little teaser of what is to come above. You can find the reservation page here. I have posted this on FC first, the wider public will not know until tonight. We appreciate the support you have given us and know you will love what we have built. This device is going to change everything, even for those who own Grasshoppers already!
p.s. - New batteries will be starting at the factory in the next week or two.
Copacetic
Somewhere North of The Wall
WOW, 65 Watt?
I have a little teaser of what is to come above. You can find the reservation page here. I have posted this on FC first, the wider public will not know until tonight. We appreciate the support you have given us and know you will love what we have built. This device is going to change everything, even for those who own Grasshoppers already!
p.s. - New batteries will be starting at the factory in the next week or two.
Regular GH is 45 if I'm not mistaken?
20 WATT INCREASE OVER OG HOPPER!
This is going to be fascinating.
I mean, I rarely ever go to max on my GH, and then it's only ever through water.
I don't think I've ever thought "I wish this was more powerful".
Vaporific
All who wander are not lost...
Happy Hoppergiving, HL! Thanks for the advance ‘tease’. We (and I) have lots of questions:
I have a little teaser of what is to come above. You can find the reservation page here. I have posted this on FC first, the wider public will not know until tonight. We appreciate the support you have given us and know you will love what we have built. This device is going to change everything, even for those who own Grasshoppers already!
p.s. - New batteries will be starting at the factory in the next week or two.
1. Formal name?
2. Same size factor as existing Hopper?
3. What about battery - same size or bigger, comparable to 16850? If the unit is same size, and then presumably the battery too, wouldn’t extra wattage in the heater not keep up with the current proprietary batts?
I’m no electrical engineer or expert but if the form factor is the same using the same batts, I’d be wary of this. But I don’t want to speculate too soon until some details are provided.
Looking forward to getting back from my brother’s gym while away and using my pre-order Ti. Happy holidays and Hopperdays to all...
@Hopper Labs for those of us that lost a Hopper in the fire can we get a credit toward one of these new Hoppers?