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Thermovape Cera (Original thread, closed because of chaos)

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by SameOldTim, Nov 1, 2012.

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  1. J.D.420

    J.D.420 420th Dragoons

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    Location:
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    I'm so tempted to cancel my order right now but the truth is there's no other portable vape on the market right now with the feature set the cera offers, especially one with convection technology. I could cancel my order and get a pax (the only other portable vape I was seriously considering) but I know deep down I'd always wish it was a cera. Hopefully TET throws in a freebie for the pre-orders (other than a free battery for those who didn't order any). I'm thinking a thermal sleeve or perhaps a complimentary titanium upgrade (hehe I kid ;) ). I know the ship date wasn't guaranteed but... come on throw us a bone here we paid full price up front for this thing.
     
  2. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    I like the configuration I've got as well, but I've never tried the other button. I suspect it'll be useful sometimes but I'll want latching others. Then again, the round one (momentary) is a stop gap, TV will be providing both as soon as they can. Folks can choose.

    I started out standing mine up like I do similar units (some like VB won't of course) but after a couple of falls from the table I took to laying it on it's side (I only have two feet, and use both nearly every day). When outside, it goes in a pocket of course.

    I don't know for sure, but my guess is other testers reported accidental turn ons (should that be 'turns on' like 'Mothers in Law'.....the scariest 3 words in the English language?) on the slide switch. I got several (didn't report them as yet) so I try to remember to click the bottom switch back off. Just guessing here, I'm not even sure they're going to end up changing it. They could even give you spare parts and let you choose? I'm all for seeing where they go with this? For all I know there may be lawyers in the game somewhere, and you know what that can do to otherwise logical and reasonable ideas........

    Lucky you. You should consider what Doctors in San Francisco do......

    Congrats on the birthday, FWIW you don't look anywhere near that old.

    OF
     
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  3. JoeKickass

    JoeKickass Well-Known Member

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    2,792
    I'm pretty sure that Cera in the videos was one of very few, maybe even the only assembled Cera in the world. I think that qualifies as a prototype doesn't it?

    Also all the debate about switches, except by OF maybe, is just speculation. People have different shape and size hands and will adopt different usage techniques and until you actuallly live with one switch or the other you can't be sure how you'll like it. I suggest TV produce a single body with a standard hole and then have many switch options fully stocked with a system so that people can exchange and try them out until they decide which ones they want permenantly.
     
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  4. AirDru

    AirDru Well-Known Member

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    219
    OF:

    Did you get any impression or inside info on how long the standard switches would take to produce?

    I ask because if the unit is going to produce vapor on a momentary basis (needing the bottom botton to be held down) I will pursue a refund on the LL core. but only if its gonna take more than a few months to get the new switch. once the original switch is ready i would be inclined to repurchase the LL core and ask that TET include the core when shipping me the new switch.

    For the EO core the momentary switch is still not my favorite choice but i think it will function fine. . Noah was rocking the switch with his pinky in all the videos.
     
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  5. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Well, I'm positive that's not the case (it's not the only one)....I had another (I understand it the first?) in my hand 25 miles away when that happened. I have the first working oil core (in the first video), what you saw was the second (at least) of them. I know there is other Beta testing going on, I'm not sure how much they're sharing in that, who they are or most of what they report (the usual rules for Beta testing). By the definitions I was taught this is not a prototype. There were, I understand, four 'generations' of prototypes (I recall Noah saying as much, FWIW), this being the first using the final design, would be part of a Pilot Run. A 'practice batch' made to the (soon to be released usually) final drawings and specifications. A test to see if you can schedule production, that is a test of the design that will be used.

    There are some parts around the shop, for instance Tim swapped out the whole body on my Beta unit for one of the others that already had the latest 'ground strap'. I've seen trays with a dozen or two bowls and small ceramic parts (the body and larger parts came out of boxes). As a guess the pilot run was set up for maybe 10 or 15 units? And not necessarily 'complete units', there might be more bowls than covers for instance. Those parts would most likely have been made in a 'model shop' at the vendor's facility, small production equipment (presses, furnaces, etc) and 'hand machined' (or at least getting special treatment) by the best guy available. Production would be done differently usually.

    That, I think, is at the core of the delays. It's one thing to get a few samples of a switch that looks attractive and meets your specs, but often quite another to actually get them in bulk on schedule. You can't even go by 'promises' from vendors. They might say 'we have a few, we can probably get more from XXX or YYY, and by then the factory can do another run' and not put much thought into it since they get lots of 'price and availability requests' that never pan out (sometimes folks are late wanting the parts they said they'd want in the time frame we rushed to fill....go figure). I don't know this is the case here, I'm giving a made up example from my experiences over the years (I've been on both siides of this one...).

    The suggestion is I think a very good one. And I believe they're working that way. Like adding other carts to the basic herb Cera, I think in the future we'll see different batteries, skins, mouthpieces, switches, other powers, who knows what all. They have a history of catering to individual modifications on the theme. For now they seem to be following the classic model for small outfits with limited resources on high tech releases. They're 'putting all their money on one horse'. It looks like fate has forced their hand some and a different battery and switch have moved up in time, in both cases we'll end up with the same options but 'best foot forward' takes a hit in favor of schedule.....not at all uncommon.

    Fun stuff. Sometimes.

    OF
     
  6. Medical Mark

    Medical Mark Well-Known Member

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    423
    prototypes dont get sold to the public, anyway what ever it doesnt really matter does it cause we cant change it but we can voice our opionions right.
    I would cancel my order but again like j.d.420 said there isnt any other portable herb vaporizer on the market right now, and its bought and paid for so i ll roll with it.
    now regarding that switch i like the idea of TET keeping the safety switch but having a few different options to remove or use the safety switch in different ways or application would be nice. having options to use the safety switch or remove it would be the best option gives us the choice to opereate the unit with one handusing our thumb and index finger to toggle the switch on and off or remove it totally and use momentary switch to control the unit. maybe the safety switch could be used to lock the cera by rremving the pin when not wanting the unit to run and then when in use pin is inserted aand on it goes.
    original design is the best in my opinion.
    i preorderd a cloud and it came as advertised and no changes were made from what they beta tested and what they were advertising what you see us using is what you will recieve they didnt change anything they sold what they were promoting so people new what they were getting when they preodered.
    I need the cera for medical reasons herb chamber, portability, which is the only reason i dont cancel mt order out of nessesity not want. I sound upset cause im sick very sick and use meds daily from am to pm and need products that help me and work for me and my problems and situations so as i purchsed the Cera this was the reasoning behind my purchase.
    im all about practical applications, and easy use typt products but when im following a product for weeks and am being told this is what it is how it works what you get ect, and purchase one because of what has been shown via the web and then as im waiting for the product to be sent out im told its going to be changed from what was told and sold to me to something different. now maybe there changes are minor but when youve allready paid for something you like and want and are told it were changing this and that after paying for what it is bad cutomer service IMO but again if there nothing on the market similiar.
    Sorry but communication concerning this Cera would have been a asset before people bought a product you are changing from what was advertised maybe minor maybe a so called prototype but regardless it is being changed and altered from the oroiginal advertised unit which they show on there




    [​IMG]


    The Cera is comprised of a stabilized, structural ceramic that is as clean as glass, as strong as steel, and nearly as hard as diamond. Coupled with titanium or stainless steel parts, the ceramic vaporizer represents a huge technological achievement, producing incredible vapor and flavor never before realized by any other.
    View
    this what they advertise on there website this is whatere selling promoting to sell to customers not a cera without a switch or momentary switch or 2250 batteries but being sold as this unit i customers want what there being sold and promoted you cant change a product after showing it and promoting it the way it is in this picture this is what people are buying whats in this picture.
    they want the product described here with the features displayed here.
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    11,934
    Location:
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    They didn't seem to know for sure, my guess is in the few months time frame. I think the outside bound is the cost/delays in redesigning the end cap to use an alternate switch. They picked two switches (latching and momentary) that use the same mounting. The 'next best' switch might call for a different end cap? Just speculation, of course, but that's the sort of processes that take place at times like this. If the delay gets too long, you go to plan B.

    Dropping the LL cart until they send out the latching switches would work, you'd save postage and time getting it now if your confidence they would make good was high enough.

    Yeah, I noticed Noah doing that too. That (his using the bottom switch) might be a factor in their overall plan? I have to wonder if one of the prototypes might have had one? For sure if you stated with T1 that's the place you start from. FWIW, I'm looking forward to trying it, but am not sure I'll like it.....which is I guess why you try?

    OF
     
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  8. 2clicker

    2clicker up to my ears in clams Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    3,591
    i gotta say this kinda sucks about the switch. i only say that because the LL was going to be my main purpose for the Cera. so i guess i wait until the latch switch is ready before i order i suppose.

    ive got a feeling it will be worth it in the long run.
     
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  9. Medical Mark

    Medical Mark Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    423
    so the switch effects the Cera LL cart?
    i dont understand i guess what does this have to do withe LL cart? why would the switch delay the LL cart?
    im getting this product because of this LL cart the EO cart is just a bonus for me but primarily my medicine consists of dry herb and the Cera LL wet my desire for a good portable herb vape so i reseached and watched all the hype and seculation about this Cera and then when preorders were being accepted for the Cera LL and EO thats was being advertised and demos being shown of the Cera there selling and taking our money for( IE:website description of the product there selling and taking preoders for)
    I dont understand next week will my cera be completed or will i have to wait due to the switch and LL cart im confused how they affect each other the switch and the LL cart?
    so i guess the cera wlll have a different on/off momentary switch that will be swpped out later on right and the no safety switch? (maybe) and what the deal im reading concerning the LL cart? please clarify for me ok.
     
  10. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    11,934
    Location:
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    No, it does not. It might effect someone's decision to buy the LL cart today or in a few weeks (hopefully, I don't want guys going 'you promised......') when the switch they'd rather have is shipped to them.

    Everyone's order is delayed because the ceramic body pieces are not ready yet. Has nothing to do with switches or LL carts.

    OF
     
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  11. jambandphan03

    jambandphan03 Vapor Goddess

    Messages:
    5,450
    The reason I think it is effecting the LL cart use, in theory anyway, is that it will be a "hold on" switch. We were kind of hoping to get away from having to hold the button on while in use, because of longer heat up times with using the LL cart. The EO cart heats so fast, it probably needs the momentary switch. So I can see why both would be good to have. At this point, it looks like a temporary delay in the final switch, and that pre-orders will be getting the momentary switch to start. This is my understanding so far. I am not sure how to feel about the way this is unfolding, but I don't think I am ready to throw in the towel.

    What I would like to see is a bit more CLEAR information from TET about what we are dealing with with changes etc. before they ship out, so we can make educated decisions.
     
  12. BLAZING OG

    BLAZING OG Vaping is a way of life!

    Messages:
    1,479
    Location:
    Sherman Oaks, CA
    Well it might be 3 to 4 weeks before they get shipped, so maybe most parts will be ready, if not rest assure you all will have a working cera and possibly some extra parts!!!!! Iam sure half the people pre ordering have some other units to get them by, really!!!!!
    Remember OF said some of the ceramics are being finished and cured/hardened, if all goes well it could be 2 weeks, if issues arise then it might delay another week or two,:2c:
     
  13. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    11,934
    Location:
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    I believe that's exactly the intention. Once they know what that is of course. The scheme is probably to go down the order list and send out confirmation emails (no doubt opt in?) with a firm ship date subject to whatever the final configuration and details are. I've been though this drill before, it works well if you can stay on top of it and issue 'shippers' against the stock as it builds.

    And soon, we hope.

    OF
     
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  14. terpsfan726

    terpsfan726 Active Member

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    97
    why is the titanium version so much more expensive?
     
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  15. Medical Mark

    Medical Mark Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    423
    i agree with that too if changes are made that change what theve been advertising on there site if we have preordered i think TET should communicate those changes small or big so ya informed decission can be made by those who allready paid for this product regardless of if this was aprototype or not right. im not ready cancel yet either the momentary switch for oils make sense so one might zap the oil as needed to control the amount of vapor released and the latching switch for herb but i think but i still think that when usng the LL cart that if the unit is on and reaches the right temp to start vaping, a other control like the original saffety switch would be ideal to just activate the heater as needed in a more relaxed more eragonomic eastetic placement as shown on there website.
    now being able to remove this switch (pin) if desired would be the best way to go about making all consumers happy this gives us versatility and choice for what ever application or technique we want and need according to what cart we are using and even what type of medicine we are using would be affected by the way the heating and on/off action will work together.
    i have a friend with one arm and deformed fingers arthritis he could use the original toggle switch to work a cera but the othe way having to toggle the from the bottom with one deformed hand would not work so he is out if this would be the case.
    its a medical issue for me and many others not a how it looks but how it functions and its ease to use and versatile compact portable powerful application for meds.
    thats all.
    its all about feeling better and about quality and efectiveness.
     
  16. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    As a material it's very expensive, and given the 'made in USA' policy most of the world's suppliers are out (China has a lot of it.....), I think it comes down to one or two for that reason, you're competing with (established) medical uses for what's available and on top of all that the stuff is just about impossible to machine. Most shops balk at the job, and many of those who take it on shouldn't. TV needs tiny tapped holes and stuff. Tall order over all.

    Low volume doesn't help much, either, of course.

    OF
     
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  17. BLAZING OG

    BLAZING OG Vaping is a way of life!

    Messages:
    1,479
    Location:
    Sherman Oaks, CA
    Its expensive, it has one of the highest weight to strength ratio, its beautiful, corrosion proof, thats a few reasons, but mainly i hear its very hard & time consuming to machine Ti parts!!!:drool:

    Commercial (99.2% pure) grades of titanium have ultimate tensile strength of about 63,000 psi (434 MPa), equal to that of common, low-grade steel alloys, but are 45% lighter. Titanium is 60% more dense than aluminium, but more than twice as strong[6] as the most commonly used 6061-T6 aluminium alloy. Certain titanium alloys (e.g., Beta C) achieve tensile strengths of over 200,000 psi (1,400 MPa).[10] However, titanium loses strength when heated above 430 °C (806 °F).[11]
    Titanium is fairly hard (although not as hard as some grades of heat-treated steel), non-magnetic and a poor conductor of heat and electricity. Machining requires precautions, as the material will soften and gall if sharp tools and proper cooling methods are not used. Like those made from steel, titanium structures have a fatigue limit which guarantees longevity in some applications.[9] Titanium alloys have lower specific stiffnesses than in many other structural materials such as aluminium alloys and carbon fiber.
    The metal is a dimorphic allotrope whose hexagonal alpha form changes into a body-centered cubic (lattice) β form at882 °C (1,620 °F).[11] The specific heat of the alpha form increases dramatically as it is heated to this transition temperature but then falls and remains fairly constant for the β form regardless of temperature.[11] Similar to zirconium and hafnium, an additional omega phase exists, which is thermodynamically stable at high pressures, but is metastable at ambient pressures. This phase is usually hexagonal (ideal) or trigonal (distorted) and can be viewed as being due to a soft longitudinal acoustic phonon of the β phase causing collapse of (111) planes of atoms.[12]
    Chemical properties


    [​IMG]
    The Pourbaix diagram for titanium in pure water, perchloric acid or sodium hydroxide[13]

    Like aluminium and magnesium metal surfaces, titanium metal and alloy surfaces oxidize immediately when they are exposed to air. Titanium readily reacts with oxygen at 1,200 °C (2,190 °F) in air, and at 610 °C (1,130 °F) in pure oxygen, forming titanium dioxide.[7] However, it is slow to react with water and air, because it forms a passive and protective oxide coating that protects it from further reaction.[2] When it first forms, this protective layer is only 1–2 nmthick but continues to slowly grow; reaching a thickness of 25 nm in four years.[14]
    When exposed to nitrogen clean titanium metal is covered with a titanium nitridelayer. The thin titanium dioxide and nitride layers on titanium surfaces are veryhard and inert.
    The most noted chemical property of titanium is its excellent resistance to corrosion; it is almost as resistant as platinum, capable of withstanding attack by dilute sulfuric acid and hydrochloric acid as well as chlorine gas, chloride solutions, and most organic acids.[3] However, it is soluble in concentrated acids.[15] The Pourbaix diagram in the image shows that titanium is actually thermodynamically a very reactive metal.

    You beat me to it lol OF your the fastest gunslinger on the west!! lol
     
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  18. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,663
    Location:
    Southeast of Disorder
    My very first job was in a machine shop. At the time, our biggest project was building the new motor mounts for DC-10s out of pure titanium (I'm sure some of you remember the DC-10 that had lost it's motor right off of it's wing...this made them decide to build the motor mounts out of Ti). I don't remember how much the drill bits cost, but I do remember that they were extremely expensive, and we were breaking them at a very high rate even though we were using state of the art machining equipment.

    We also saved all the scrap and sold it back to our supplier (we called it 'gold dust' because it was so expensive). So not only is Ti extremely hard, but it's extremely hard to machine, and very expensive to source.

    :peace:
     
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  19. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Hey, it's easy being fast if you don't care where the bullet holes end up......

    OF
     
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  20. escierdanyc

    escierdanyc Active Member

    Messages:
    80
    Is the switch that we will have to hold onto be on the bottom? Can someone explain how it's going to be used? Seems like a really awkward place to put a switch that you have to hold onto-- especially when this is supposed to be geared towards medical users.

    Overall, I'm pretty patient so the wait doesn't bother me. However, I'm concerned about paying double for shipping for the switch this product was advertised with.

    I don't mind waiting another month for a product that's made in the USA and that is built to last. I think it would help if they sent e-mails out to the customers that preordered with updates regarding the delays. It just seems like the polite thing to do. I have a buddy who also ordered one but is significantly older and doesn't check the forum. He relies on the meds way more than I do (I do it for recreation) so I think it's important to take people like that into consideration.

    We're both really patient but I really appreciate updates regarding a project that I'm essentially funding since the product has no release date as of yet.

    Just an e-mail is all.

    Since it will ship with this new switch, perhaps uploading a video of the new switch being used so I can forward it to anyone who isn't as technologically savvy.

    I like supporting US companies that don't send their business to sweatshops in China and the wait is definitely worth it if it means my money isn't going into slave labor.

    Again, all I suggest is that we get e-mails as this thread gets cluttered with fanboys and haters alike.

    Thanks

    E

    Edit: Sorry for the rumbling. I'm pretty baked off the MFLB :-)
     
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  21. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,934
    Location:
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    First off, not to worry about shipping. It's my understanding they'll be shipping owners a second (latching) switch cap assembly 'free' when they become available. Unlike the battery change where you'd have to return the two 2250 mAh units to get the one 2900 mAh unit when they become available (I suspect most will like the 2250s anyway, my initial uses with the I got a few days ago are awfully impressive....).

    Also not to worry about email contact. Again, it's my understanding (always subject to error of course) that the plan calls for an email confirming the order and shipping address (which does change for some) as well as explaining all the details (like battery type substitutions, switch delays and such) and giving folks the option to add skins (if they can be finalized in time) and so on. But to do this you need to resolve all the issues so you can give a firm date and accurate description. Sending out that email before all the facts are know is sure to start another firestorm of confusion and flames aimed at TV. I think we all see why most makers just keep delays to themselves. I celebrate their Business Model, but it has down sides for sure.

    So, stand by. I think in the next few weeks the ceramic pieces will be here, the momentary switch assembly built up and tested, batteries, chargers and other bits should be in house and they'll be ready to send out individual emails to customers giving the details (including shipping estimates based on stock) and giving customers a last minute chance to confirm or modify their orders. The latching caps will be sent out 'for free' when they are ready I'm told, we'll all get a free upgrade there.

    OF
     
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  22. ogcook

    ogcook Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    592
    Location:
    East Coast
    Oh man, a few weeks. Here's to hoping it's sooner! But I have my faith in TET.
     
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  23. numero

    numero Member

    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    North Hollywood, CA
    Probably on Feb. 10 th?
     
  24. Medical Mark

    Medical Mark Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    423
    Well I hope they keep us up to date with there progree there's been a lot of changes through it this whole preorder, I realize that it is not my business what decisions they make or the things they decide to change but I hope that they'll pay attention to the negative or proactive voices here if they are at all but anyway my hope I that this safety toggle switch will be a option to have or not that the pin would be removable and nterchangeble depending on what cart your using.
    A toggle would be ideal for both the Cera LL/EO carts but the wa they'll be used will definitely vary with technique and product being used with each particular cart but both needing attention especially the EO cart since it can run away on you by producing in most cases too much vapor for a average user and intern need some more control fast control easy access control.
    The Cera LL cart well it needs a different type of control and a different skill set to use this cart properly and efficiently.
    Longer heat up time for the product in the herb chamber to effectively release vapor, now this means continual air being drawn throught the chamber at a constant rate and temperature so that the vapor will be released. Being able to toggle the heater on during a inhale while the herb is cooling without stopping your draw would increase the heat of the herb area and intern not allowing the herb to cool to much even though the Cera retains heat well herb doesn't in needs a constant heat source through it well youtube ale a draws at a low temp less is release so control to turn it on during. Inhale or off is a must but having ti use your pinky or having to hold it with one hane and press the momentary or latch switch with your other hand so you can turn it off or on isn't very user friendly.
    I'd love theideaof holding the Cera with one hand, loading it then turning it on with the bottom latched switch and then sliding the pin safety switch with my thumb to the on position leering it heat up with my herb in the chamber then start to take low draws from the unit until vapor is produced then using my index finder to push the pin back to the off position as needed when needed and then when chamber is empty and I'm done press the bottom latching switch to shut off the Cera so no power is used in anyway.
    This to me is the ideal use of the Cera and the safety switch now if you. Don't like that's et up pull the pin out and insert a other toe pin so ther is a contact for power and then just the bottom switch if that's what you prefer. Perfect set up perfect solution to make everyone happy.
     
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  25. vapelvr

    vapelvr Active Member

    Messages:
    46
    Ditto!

    Many of us are following updates on multiple threads and actually have lives so we need an FAQ page like many other forums so we can "quickly" refer to features and tips that people discover in addition to basic technical specs and details that usually would be included. REading all this moaning and whining and complaining is just a waste of time. People need to chill out more and keep to relevant info here. Seems to be straining and stressful now to read this thread and that it didn't used to be.

    As for an FAQ, is this somewhere that I don't know about? Seems like it would save on a lot of redundant questions and allow people to sift through al the crap and get to the nuts and bolts plus if we have an "ongoing tips" or some section where good ideas that people figure out can be easily added and referenced, as well as review links on youtube and others perhaps if that's allowed.

    Just my opinion, but I feel too much unnecessary info is in this thread now and feel for people that have to wade through it. There are more important things to be doing.
     
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