Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by magicflight, May 16, 2009.
your project sounds promising. don't forget to post some pictures of the final setup
Spring is here im going to start tomorrow im guessing going to the uintas in about 2 weeks =)
Spring huh? It's going to be 7 degrees tomorrow morning here. I like to take the box out onto the deck for arctic fresh hits :~)
Hey guys, just wanted to show you all what you should and shouldn't do with the Concentrate Tray once you get them. I had to go renew my recommendation earlier, and picked up a gram of some Blue Dream honeycomb-lookin' blond goodness. And yes, I have a new mousepad on the way
This is how you do it wrong. Only the bottom decided to melt in a little bit, around the edges as well:
This is how you do it right. This is the same piece of concentrate as above, but broken up with the tweezers:
And this is how it should look after using it. I took a little hit (DELICIOUS) and I melted the rest in for later:
You have shown why I feel a lot of vaporizers don't work for people who use whole pieces of concentrates, they need to break it up as much as possible so the hot air can effect the concentrate. If they don't, the heat won't penetrate as it should causing you to need a higher temperature. Once people learn the right way to use concentrates with vaporizers, dabbing will probably die down.
Props to you for doing it right!.
It's only logical, the Launch Box itself works best with the most surface area as possible. Small pieces heat quicker and more uniformly, it doesn't make sense not to break it up. I can't say I agree with you re: the death of the dab, I'll always have the nail close-by. I puked my brains out earlier today out of nowhere (but probably from my medications) and I would have loved to have my rig with me to take a huge glob of oil in one hit. I had my DART with me but alas, the nausea beat me this time. Plus, a butane torch doesn't require electricity
I think you might have missed the point. It's not "so the hot air can effect the concentrate". This is not a convection deal, hot air is not the process, it's conduction. Breaking it up puts more in contact with the tray (the hot air was doing little if any good). This allowed melting it in, a vital step that convection doesn't use. Finally, once melted in, conduction could further heat it to vaporizing temperature.
That, I think, is the lesson here. It has nothing to do with hot air, everything to do with using the tray as intended to get good results. It's conduction, not convection, and calls for that kind of technique.
He's not talking in regards to the LB/CT, but vaporizers in general. He means the reason people don't get the best results with vaporizers and BHO is because they add one big glob, instead of breaking it up to increase surface area. Imagine the Solo for instance, with a fat pea of oil in between flower beds. Would that vape? Sure. Could it be much better if you broke the oil up and spread it more evenly? Yep.
Could well be the intent, and in general that is probably right, but when he starts out "You have shown" using this example I think he missed the point of the example. This is not an example of hot air working on the concentrate.
We grind fine to work well on convection vapes. But we also grind fine for MFLB, which is a conduction vape. Largely for the same reason (more contact with hot stuff). And not all convection vapes need this grinding, HA and Solo being examples. Both do intact buds just fine.
It is hot air, why do you think it didn't melt until he broke it in pieces?.
Hot air is in the trench based on how convection works. Not just vaporizers, but in general When ever you heat ANYTHING up, you will get some sort of convection of the air.
They might not need to grind, but you would get WAY BETTER results if you do. Air is very light, and goes where there is less restriction, so if you use one big piece of herb or concentrate, it will just go around it. When using a concentrate this effect is even stronger due to being more dense then bud. When you break these things in pieces they hold more heat, as well as have more heat come into contact with them, which is why you saw the results he got.
Actually I think so for the reason I just said. The only part in play makes physical contact.
Thermodynamics tells us there are (only) 3 ways to move heat. Conduction, convection and radiation. They are seldom unique, but almost always one dominates so much we ignore the others.
In the case of MFLB it is a conduction deal. There's just not enough energy there to heat enough air hot enough to get the mass working. Them's the rules.
For convection to work the screen would have to be hotter than the temperature we want to heat the air to ('heat flows from hot to cold') and we know the screen is basically limited (by radiation it turns out) to about 400F.
We can see another excellent example of this with the Flashvape. In conduction form (the original configuration) it's a barn burner, literally courting combustion a second or two away. Conversion to convection (S2 version) requires a huge jump in power to play, even though it was already perhaps the hottest portable in it's class?
MFLB is not convection, in fact air flow really slows it down, not speeds it up as in convection. It's conduction, with different rules.
I disagree completely with this. I've been using an HA for years and it works just as well with whole buds, or even compressed whole buds, as it does with ground herb, ime. The unique flow design allows for maximum penetration, and amazingly even cooking every time. Yes, ground bud gives milkier hits, but that doesn't necessarily mean more potent vapour, just that there's more particulates in the stream, giving more surface area for condensation to occur.
You are going back into the other subject we was discussing in previous posts, which I don't feel like getting into. I'm talking about MELTING concentrate. His pictures are showing you, why are you going into other stuff, IDK.
BTW, your inhale, like I stated previously, changes the outcome of things when dealing with the mflb or any vaporizer. When you inhale at the proper rate, you take away the cool air, allowing NOTHING but hot air to engulf the bowl. This changes the results, and is why so many people get different effects with manual vaporizers, especially the mflb.
Anyway, I'm glad Quetzalcoatl did what I was trying to explain to others in my previous post about breaking up the concentrate for a better effect. In time, I will try to show how inhale effect's everything also. Peace out.
I understand how the HA works. It basically pushes air to go into the bud, by pulsating it, which is why you don't HAVE to grind your bud, but for the quickest effect, with less air diluting your bud, grinding is better. As well as slow long, inhales which is why I don't recommend using the pump if you want a quick extraction of your actives. The pump dilutes with too much air for me.
This is another subject, but basically, when you use whole bud the temperature inside the bowl will not be the temperature you want due to being so dense. Plant fibers absorb the heat. You are right about the milkier hits, but when I refer to better hit's I'm talking about more accurate temperature, giving a more concentrated hit due to less air diluting the vapor. The ground bud will give a faster effect then the dense bowl of bud, whether packed tightly or one whole bud. In other words, you can extract the actives much faster then you would if you use a densely packed bowl. There is more discussion on this in this thread:
Go to Hippie Dickie's post to see what I mean. Also, read all his post in that thread to see how things worked for him
mod note: Please avoid back-to-back posts, use Edit instead. Two posts merged.
FWIW I haven't found breaking up my concentrate to be necessary at all. One dab on the tray melts fully away in just a few seconds. Think a dab of butter on a hot skillet: you can break it up if you want, but it's gonna be liquid in a few seconds anyway, so why bother?
Of course all concentrates are slightly different so maybe that is what is at play here?
It would have taken longer for it to melt in, as opposed to little crumbs all at the same time.
what if you leave it as one piece and make a worm out of it instead of a ball... that would help give it more of a chance too.. seems easier than breaking down and putting in multiple pieces.. if your hash can handle being rolled w/o crumbling
If the goal is to melt it in (IMO it is....) why not just smash such hash flat into the tray? As long as it's 'clay like' a pancake has better contact than a worm's belly......
Once it's melted, it doesn't matter really.
that's what i like about the box, you can use it in cold enviroments in gloves or use it as a hand warmer. even smoking complex with cold hands
So why is it recommended to fill the trench to the top rather than cooking up smaller loads? I think I would rather load in less for the sake of flavor. The trench seems to last forever when I fill it and I can't get myself to toss it because it will still produce vapor even when its dark brown. A better question is why am I complaining that my trenches last forever?
The recommendation to fill the trench is a matter of efficient battery use. The LB uses the same energy to heat half a trench as it does to heat a full one. If that isn't an issue for you, ignore it. I usually fill the trench about two-thirds full.
If the flavour towards the end of a trench bothers you but it's still producing vapour, you might want to hook up a water tool of some kind for those last couple of hits.
Battery life isn't an issue at all for me. It isn't so much that it bothers me, I just like the ritual of grinding and loading :~) Thanks for chiming in.
I used to save my abv at that point for edibles, but nowadays more often than not I choke the last couple of hits down and dump it.
Why don't you save it for edibles anymore? Just curious.
First outing w/ the MFLB and it combusted
Filled a small-ish trench and followed the three seconds, then sip tea, sip a bit more, little more, longest yet and then pull battery. I was on the 5-6 hit and at the end when I take the biggest inhale I saw some black 'tar' hit the cover and the trench was in smoke.
Hopefully this didn't do any damage and I'll change my technique up a bit.
It was the best vap I've tried yet.
Wow !It was heating up AS you were pulling ? How long
was that pause before you did your last pull? Yah
the effect is that quick.
Hope the box is OK... it should be.
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