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The Herbalizer

Discussion in 'Plug-in Vaporizers' started by nopartofme, Apr 7, 2013.

  1. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    i certainly agree -- and i have come to believe this is true for everything that i used to consider to be a binary process.

    i find every load is unique, and certainly every strain and cure. so adjusting the temp during a session is key. and then maintaining that temp.

    i'm pretty sure that's what the Cloud does ... just no digital setting or readout.

    Also, i hope they price it right ... say $750.

    looking around these days it looks to me like venture capital has discovered cannabis.
  2. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    Yup, and along with the influx of money comes the outflow of marketing to an unsuspecting public. We here are MUCH more inquisitive and knowledgeable about vaporizers and as such, we will pick apart, analyze and expose those things in marketing hype that just doesn't hold water. I would think that as engineers, they would do the same so I would have no doubt that they know these things but are making the assumption that 99% of their target audience does not, and in that...........they are correct.

    It seems that their exuberance in wanting to differentiate their product from those products that already exist may be causing them to get a bit ahead of themselves, eh?
    Vapor X, Enchantre and natural farmer like this.
  3. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    Exactly. I'm not trying to discredit the idea of precise temperature control. That's obviously a desirable feature for exactly the reason you stated.

    I am trying to correct the notion that somehow precise temperature control means you can go to 185°C (365°F) and get only CBN—or even just the components that have lower boiling points. You can't.
    kelper, natural farmer and vorrange like this.
  4. vorrange

    vorrange Well-Known Member

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    OO, i think you're right but i don't think you should judge them on a sentence in a video. And i also think it's unfair to the vaporizer itself to no get his due credit (at least judging on what we saw), because it does look promising.

    I prefer to focus on their approach when it comes to medicine and health and what they are doing to change the way the world sees this plant and using plants first before pills to treat your ilnesses.
    People with this mindset are what the world needs.

    I have always said that the Volcano guys, with all their expertise, should do way more than the Plenty as their newest model, and the proof is what these guys have done.
    Most vaporizers are made with people with a lot of good heart but less science than it could be used.

    I think it's positive that there is no need for a fancy unit to work well, like i said in another thread yesterday, log vapes are still my favorite type and the one i use the most.. but, it's time things start getting scientific as well and it should start from us and not from big companies with their eyes on the profit and not on changing the world for better.

    Vtac, thanks for all the info. :tup:

    Yeah, i think it's important to differentiate between precise temperature control and what you really extract at that precise temperature and in what concentration of each cannabinoid.

    And about the Herbalizer familiar sound.. to me its Herbalaire+Herborizer. :D
    Vapor X, lazylathe, Bvapst and 2 others like this.
  5. VaporEyes

    VaporEyes Vaporization Aficionado Accessory Maker

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    Very interesting, can't wait to see how it performs.
  6. vtac

    vtac vapor junkie Staff Member

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    I feel that the point has been pushed over and over in vape marketing. It never resonated with me because I was never convinced that any of the products available delivered it. Now that it appears that something does, it sort of feels like I can finally be excited. :D
    I don't disagree with this. One of the most exciting things to me about the idea of having precise and reliable temperature control is that it finally gives us an accurate tool to use an experiment with. Sort of like having access to a digital weigh scale that measures accurately to tenths of a gram when before you only had rough estimation tools. I think the studies that have been conducted around vaporizing would have benefited if such a vaporizer was available.
    To be clear, this is what I was referring to as "somewhat of a holy grail":

    the display giving an accurate reading of the temperature the herb is being exposed to, and the software accurately adjusting the heater to maintain the desired temperature, especially during use when the user alters it by drawing air.

    The Cloud does an incredible job at providing thick vapor even when being drawn through quickly, and I have no doubt that the software implementation they've been tweaking is near perfect for the application. The main difference is that the Cloud has a fairly large thermal mass in the glass bamboo to help maintain a steady heat. The Herbalizer is doing it the other way with a low thermal mass and a heater design that can change the airflow temperature as fast as possible.

    I'm really excited to get these in user's hands and see what the response is like. Forget that, get one in my hands first.
    weedemon, kelper, ShipDit and 10 others like this.
  7. EveryDayAmnesiac

    EveryDayAmnesiac Heaven can't wait.

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    <----- User hands available right here! :D

    I may not know anything about the present, and I may confused about the past, but I think I can see the future: The Herbalizer!

    The other vapes on my long-term radar are going to be taking a backseat while I save for this baby!

    [​IMG]
    RUDE BOY and VaporEyes like this.
  8. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    i don't think thermal mass has much to do with it. For a log vape, sure, but not once you're crossed the line to dynamic control.

    The issue is how to transfer the heat from the thermal source (heater) to the air. i was very surprised to see that so little of the bamboo is actually inside the heater. From my testing, glass that is more than 2" from the edge of the heater is more or less at room temperature -- certainly not too hot to touch and not heating the air at all.

    pumping thermal watts into the air space is what it's all about. 300 watts is certainly enough.
    vorrange and mvapes like this.
  9. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

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    Im scared of the response on price. This looks like something that may re-surge my VAS. If that heat up time is accurate then this could very easily become one my go to vapes when I'm in a rush. I can't wait to get a peek at what's under the hood as far as the bowl, airpath, bulb, etc...

    Also a very hip design, they definitely played their cards right in that department. Very appealing to the eye, certainly will look good any where you put it. Is it just me or when you guys bring home a new vape do you feel obligated to clean up the whole area around your vape station? Damn my OCD is bad or Tstat is rubbing off on me.:lmao:
  10. VaporEyes

    VaporEyes Vaporization Aficionado Accessory Maker

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    My vape station is assembled and disassembled every day :cool:.
    Enchantre likes this.
  11. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

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    Im telling you, it's like going to crate and barrel or fucking pottery barn. I stand there looking around and always say to myslef - damn, my house is a piece of shit!
  12. vtac

    vtac vapor junkie Staff Member

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    Agreed. So if you have a heat source that can go from 0 to 1000F in a few seconds, and you minimize the reliance on thermal mass, it's not much of an issue. :D
    mvapes likes this.
  13. Nbajunkie

    Nbajunkie Someones always watching..

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    Herbie looks like a cross between a rumba and a heart monitor. I really dig the looks. Im not a fan of whips,kind of a hassle. I'm really interested:cool: but my wallet winces every time I open this thread. It cant take another 500 dollar hit..

    Hope the creators will be coming on the forum, that's always fun..
  14. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

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    EveryDayAmnesiac likes this.
  15. dormouse

    dormouse Well-Known Member

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    Exciting product, and I'd love to try one.

    But I'd be interested in knowing how the Herbalizer compares to the Aromed (which, btw, is in the photo), especially in terms of accuracy. The Aromed is 16 years old and Research&Experience has emphasized the same "holy grail" qualities in their marketing.

    The Herbalizer:
    Edit: I'm not sure if it's the temperature increments that are ±5⁰F or if this is the margin of error. Either way, I'm a bit puzzled as to how exactly this makes the Herbalizer revolutionary in terms of accuracy. Are they really saying other vapes can't match this?

    That being said, I would love to try it out. I'm sure it's a good product.




    I'm happy for him that he has put his talents to better use.
    ataxian likes this.
  16. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

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    He worked for NASA - I have no doubt that he was privy to almost none of the information regarding where his work was going to end up.

    But at the same time, I am sort of perplexed while really optimistic. This looks so cool, in a sector of vapes that has had little innovation over the past few years. And if it impressed VTac... well that says quite a bit. But at the same time, it does look like the marketing team never heard of the Aromed and really want to blind us with science. So there's that, too.
  17. Slightly Medicated

    Slightly Medicated (SliM) Iron Lungs

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    I am really digging the form factor of this thing the more I look at it.

    This was a real nice clam bake...

  18. Mynameismud

    Mynameismud But call me Alowishus Devadander Abercrombie.

    Im sure that there marketing team has heard of the aromed. Did u see the picture of the ceo's desk vtac posted on the previouse page. Theres an assortment of different vaporizers and i think there might even be an aromed under the magnifying glass/mirror thing on the left side. If their marketing team came out and said they were using the same concepts or principles as the aromed then that would also be promoting the aromed and may cause some loss of business and the marketing team wouldnt be doing their job
  19. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

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    Unfortunately that is worse than what is reported with the HA.

    Seems like it may be a step backwards.

    I thought the herbalaire was the HERBIE? We have two Herbies now?

    mod note: Please avoid back-to-back posts, use Edit instead. Two posts merged.
  20. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

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    I hope they use quiet bags. I remember the inital bags for the Ion were loud as hell and then a few months later they released some nicer ones that you could barely hear.

    Are the Volcano or HA bags loud? I thought the E bags were loud as well.
    ShipDit likes this.
  21. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    Did your Ion bag sound like THIS !!!

  22. oldiebutgoodie

    oldiebutgoodie Apostle, Church of Vaporization

    At the moment what intrigues me most is Herbalizer's value proposition and market positioning.

    Judging from the web site and promotional materials, the value proposition appears to be primarily targeted to medical users. Rather than botanicals being a fig-leaf to keep away the legal wolves, the company emphasizes the value of the full spectrum of herbal remedies (complete with shaman) akin to aromatherapy and a unique high-value capability to tap into those via precision temperature control and speed.

    Or, is the primary target market (in terms of size) still the health-conscious recreational user, and the positioning above is for differentiation and preparation for expected growth in an anticipated, more sophisticated MMJ/herbal remedy market?

    If the former, the product can bear a higher price point, especially if Herbalizer can in fact demonstrate that "you can control what is extracted from the plant, consistently.. even remove that which you don't want, and get just what you do want . . . ". I have no knowledge of herbal remedies; perhaps the composition of some herbs work well with a precisely set temperature, and Herbalizer is in effect opening up a new market (which the literature implies it is doing). However, as far as MJ specifically, I'm with pakalolo; given the wide spectrum of compounds, the overlapping of evaporation/boiling temps across this spectrum, and that some may be desired which vaporize at a lower temp than others (i.e., what if you want CBD's but not THC?), I'm waiting to see the evidence (as I expect those with serious medical conditions will demand). In this context, the Herbie is in-effect an unregulated medical device. It also has the advantage of being genuinely unique (notwithstanding Aromed), which not only supports a higher price but also effectively differentiates from any competitors. But if it is priced higher, as one would expect for such "medical" advantage, it must deliver or MMJ users will not be kind to say the least.

    If on the other hand the primary buyer (at least initially) is recreational or a medical user w/o the need (or belief in) such precise control, the price point becomes especially critical. Then the Herbie will invariably be compared against similar bag/whip forced-air products such as the Q and ViVape. At a comparable price point (say, $200-300) the Herbie probably cleans up easily; why not, it (presumably) does all the same but better, plus more. But if priced at, say, $500, will these users see twice the value? I.e., if the precision control isn't a top requirement for these buyers will the Herbie's other features and characteristics be sufficiently compelling to justify a much higher price, and how will it fare against other high-end vapes in that price class which do different things better?

    Price means everything. Especially with this product.

    :2c:
    UpUpandAway, OO, t-dub and 1 other person like this.
  23. Nbajunkie

    Nbajunkie Someones always watching..

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    yes but also the cost of materials . Like the lcd screen would dictate the price. i cant see it costing less than 500
  24. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

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    You can get LCD's like that for less than 10 dollars when your buying them in large numbers, and that's with driver circuitry. Where most of the cost will comes from is the halogen bulbs, and the capacitor/power bank system which will supply the several hundreds of watts at the specific control levels they need during vaporization. When your dealing with that kind of power you need to buy very well made, expensive power control components.
  25. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

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    They have a new vid up on their fb page that is funny. they used it to pop one popcorn kernel.

    i get the feeling this could be the next market giant like a volcano. if they have enough funding they could really develop the legitimacy of the herbal vapor market and position themselves at the front door. The Ion used it's temperature accuracy (accurate to within 2.5C) to market to medical users. Even after getting my lhs to only carry quality vapes, he still sells more Volcano's and Pax's than anything else. The former due to reputation and the latter due to fantastic marketing.
    ShipDit and marduk like this.

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