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Loto Labs Lux (formerly Evoke)

Discussion in 'Upcoming and Unreleased Portable Vaporizers' started by SameOldTim, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

    Messages:
    3,042
    Location:
    Qc/Can
    Salutations SameOldTim,

    This is at least what i'd reply myself when that comes to its basic founding principles:

    [​IMG]

    As i recall using only *1* single battery felt like a joke to me, kind of early (...) - and perhaps also to other readers as well. Then the Loto Labs strategy was to push the cork even deeper by announcing inclusion of electrical contacts in their wireless design!! Which inspired me this next comment below...

    :cool:

    Under those given circumstances that's not even surprizing, hence my question about susceptor weight.

    :sherlock:

    Enjoying exhales under a few diagonal sunrays ain't necessarily a bad thing, i do exactly that everytime there's an opportunity because i need to be more careful than average, plus it feels so comforting somehow! Sometimes eye-contact ain't what's best in visual feedback, especially if dancing clouds became a large part of one's favourite ritual. Hard to explain without sharing the fun. Could be an ex-smoker thing, go figure.

    :D

    The reason i suggested a Hybrid Core as in my VG, previously, is because it would allow to compensate for the weak aspects somewhat (which i believe to have been avoided by this particular manufacturer right from the start).

    But adversity still may prove creative if that eventually helps to deal with such frugal energy budget so that vaporizers can compete e-Cigs someday.

    This product was conceived starting with a focussed intention to seduce visually, while the primary goal with any such portable project should be to determine what's a realistic/suitable bowl size 1st - then the heat source can be determined accordingly. Instead it's like a shell was created as a function of available battery sizes, then the bowl came sort of late in that process.

    E. G. fulfilling the needs of a startup company came long before the needs of their customers IMO.

    Yet it's here now - at least for a few owners. I'd have expected a beefier IH driver but i suspect it's possible to get the most of it by completing the work where Loto Labs left it nearly unfinished: re-design this primitive bowl into one exploiting a proper combination of all heat types exactly!

    Good day, have fun!! :peace:
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
    dingus likes this.
  2. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,447
    Yes this is exactly my experience using stock settings, did you tried higher t° with the App too?

    Agree about loading too. And the battery last only 12-15 hits before to start to get poorer performances... still get some hopes the App will make it better, it's not a cloud machine and it's not very effective but , at least, it's pretty tasty.
     
    t-dub likes this.
  3. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

    Messages:
    3,042
    Location:
    Qc/Can
    Salutations everybody,

    My question stands:

    Or at least please provide exact dimmensions to extrapolate some crude approximation of WEIGHT. The susceptor's metal weight, that is. ... Just in case i might sound, euh... "Confusing"!

    :evil:

    Correction, i've got reasons to seriously suspect that the workload and its corresponding energy source are just poorly matched. That's all.

    Using 1 single battery i wouldn't expect the performances of a table unit, which doesn't mean i can't do great visuals vaporizing only 20 ~ 25 mg per toke, routinely. That's why i asked the WEIGHT question exactly, because mass combined to specific heat capacity (of a susceptor metal), temperature (and heat-transfer processes included) shall determine what amount of vegetal substrate covered with trichomes, hopefully (...), that can be reasonably expected to vaporize. Most unfortunately, the choice of a conductive heat source proves piss-poor at best judging from what we can all read. Doesn't it??

    :sherlock:

    Now imagine if the load ain't perfectly dry...

    Hence my comment on a "thermal bottle" again. To the very least, stop wasting the precious energy as it gets generated, for starters. Next convert to convection, pre-heating time will stretch but your tokes will gain in multiples features simultaneously. Yet this still requires sand-dry cannabic bowls i'd say, otherwise too much energy is eventually lost for too little useful purpose, etc., etc.

    Instead build a "Heat Charge" that stays relatively contained until inhalation begins, the process is essentially dynamic: it's a time-compressed experience, so just don't bother too much about thermostatic temperature except the Curie temperature - provided Loto Labs ever felt necessary/convenient (or even ju$tified...) to have a Curie alloy implementing their susceptor function at all...

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    IMO 2 slices of SiC foam around a permeable stainless-steel core laid out to provide both a "shielding" and a "radiator" component would work great in a "Micro-Bursting" situation where no material is allowed sufficient time to over-heat. Correct me if i'm wrong but NASA boys would likely agree such consumption method actually relies on "adiabatic approximation" to accomplish its wonders... Which is about heat traveling at some finite speed in solid matter - that's like when i torch-clean my screens on the back of my Bronze Sherlock and never fear to endure skin burns.

    Draining a single battery in vain just ain't the solution: think improved energy conversion instead!!

    :science:

    A Susceptor's weight combined to its Curie point, if any, will set the maximum cannabis load a Heat Charge can handle. It's essentially transitional in ritual terms, heat injection must be followed by inhalation without wasting time. While air remains static the pockets inclosed in SiC foam matrixes will behave more like a heat insulator than a radiator, then in presence of a dynamic airflow a contrasted transition occurs: the temporarily-stored heat shall be transfered as efficiently/quickly as practically possible, from the Hybrid Core to its target work-load almost directly, except for a Brass Screen preventing excessive hot-spotting. That's all that i'd want in between because it's meant to be the:

    Shortest Path of Least Transformation

    :cool:

    Consequently, a somewhat reduced energy budget i believe. But that's me.

    :D

    In conclusion, this Loto Labs IH generator ain't sexy in terms of energy output but now that it's there in the real world i'd advise its proud owners to consider exploring enhanced alternatives to this unfinished capsule of theirs. For all i can tell it was hand-drawn on a pizza box (...) in a moment of intense illumination under the sky of Italy anyway!...

    :rofl:

    Good day, have fun!! :peace:
     
    dingus and SameOldTim like this.
  4. grokit

    grokit well-worn member

    Messages:
    11,996
    Location:
    the north
    Mine's supposedly on the way, via fedex.
    They did confirm that I desire dry herb compatibility.
    Trying to stay positive but idk :wave:
     
  5. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,447
    I can't say exactly.... cause my scale is limited to 0.1 minimum, when I put the susceptor alone the scale shows 0, when I add the sleeve the total weight 0.4 but susceptor might to weight a bit less than 0.1 alone.

    Tried again to add more metal mass using a mini elb bottom part from the Imag3 vaporizer (+sleeve&susceptor), seems to produce a bit more vapor but increase heating time too. Still not tried several susceptors or mesh screen sandwich or...

    The unit flash red (low battery) when there is still a lot of power in the battery, up of 50% but not enough for the Lux. I tried a search for the battery and found the manufacturer is Howell Energy (china), although the provided battery is not mentionned in the website.... what the R12 written on the battery means? Is it Something special?

    I tried a Samsung 25R.... not totally sure but doesn't seems to work as well as the provided ones. Is there an battery expert around? I get some used LGHE2, Samsung 25R, Sony VTC4 and 2 brand news VTC6, which is the best for the Lux
     
    Egzoset and Unisonruss like this.
  6. Unisonruss

    Unisonruss Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    198
    Received mine yesterday.

    Initial impression:
    Pretty. Heavy. Weird. Well thought out box and instructions. Fun to unpack. Lack of clear directions for dry herb. Wispy lame clouds, but tasty. Battery died before I got medicated fully.

    More when it's charged up!
     
  7. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    591
    Location:
    up on a mountain
    Are you guys getting shipping info or do they just show up?
     
  8. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,447
    I don't get any shipping confirmation email.... until customs contact me!

    Lux morning session, mini-elb, 1 sleeve and 2 susceptors in a capsule, loaded with moroccan kief rosin. It seems the add of metal increased clouds production.... after a slightly longer initial heat up. Nothing crazy although... but I'm still on stock settings.
    About flowers... I'm thinking to use a inhalater glass capsule with a small load and a diy susceptor in order to get the air heated by susceptor before to hit the flowers, I'll try to keep some distance between susceptor and load in order to minimize conduction... sounds good but I'll bet it will not work in real life but I have to try it (was thinking to use a mesh pad as a susceptor or some ss316 wire or ...).
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
    Egzoset and Mike-Topbond like this.
  9. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

    Messages:
    3,042
    Location:
    Qc/Can
    Hi there PPN!

    Using 0.75 g i felt i had reached a practical limit; it would be bad enough at just half the weight, but you're in conduction mode...

    Maybe you can hope to raise both battery-charge longevity and bowl capacity but i wonder if the gained margin would be worth such efforts while i keep thinking it's the delivery site that needs to be matched more efficiently.

    At least it didn't cancel the show... Got to wonder with 3 susceptors!

    :tup:

    But then what if the vial gets filled with too much metal and too little noble molecules, eventually!? :doh:

    :science:

    Dry like sugar sounds great for preliminaries... :brow:

    Large bowls ain't an option as melted material gradually causes airflow restriction, forming a cake layer that will require frequent stirring as i imagine.

    Or perhaps consider distributing conduction heat until it no longer bakes single spots anymore. How about rings, or the bottom of a metal capsule inside a glass vial. To radiate and conduct heat towards the center instead of the other way around. Or who knows, Loto Labs verified that it was a dead end already. Fingers crossed, they've been on it for so long, after all!...

    Actually i still fear the energy budget just doesn't allow much creativity. Lets wish that's nothing insoluble!

    :worms:

    How about a short wire section rolled into a planar spiral? With a tiny slice of "Health Stone" to provide a barrier delaying burns long enough for the intended urpose...

    Good day, have fun!! :peace:
     
    PPN likes this.
  10. butts

    butts Member

    Messages:
    13
    I was sent a Google form to confirm my shipping address and then got an email from Loto with my FedEx tracking number. Didnt get mine yet, but they shipped it Monday
     
    PPN likes this.
  11. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,447
    Do you mean a new battery technology could offer the missing power? in 18650?
    Since the very small room it will be a very difficult task .... or maybe Something like the Nomad heater, a sort of thin sheet of stainless steel rolled.... I'm thinking the "susceptor" have to be long enough to catch all induction effect , my last tests using a mesh pad placed in the bottom end without the long susceptor doesn't seems to work. I think the provided susceptor catch most of induction in some tiny place and redistribute the heat by conduction , so susceptor have to get some mass but some height too.

    Still not put my hands on a smartphone for the App....
     
  12. grokit

    grokit well-worn member

    Messages:
    11,996
    Location:
    the north
    Fucking fedex. My evoke moved from state to state along the west coast (seriously like four stops in four days), then they mailed it from washington to alaska. At least their tracking has improved so I know. Their estimate is for week after next but I expect it sooner. Because they turned it over to the post office.

    Honestly. They could've mailed it from the start right?
    It would probably be here by now...

    :whip:
     
  13. Razor

    Razor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    321
    Happy to say I finally got mine. I received the loose leaf receptor and capsule as well but im not sure how to use it yet. I'm happy to say that concentrates work really well. I havent used the app yet and I can get pretty good clouds without issue. Great clean flavor too. Would I pay 400 dollars for it? No. Will I be keeping mine? Oh hell yeah.
     
    StormyPinkness, PPN and Jill NYC like this.
  14. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

    Messages:
    3,042
    Location:
    Qc/Can
    Hi again PPN,

    It's little more that a simple intuition but i wouldn't expect improved power-density to offer any significant gains except battery-charge longevity, not to mention the odds against finding a satisfying solution that solves it all. Sorry for having to rely on my instincts but i won't be surprized should the "safety" features actually happen to interfere with such e-Cig size kind of modding anyway.

    In any case i'd strongly advise contacting the manufacturer directly over such issue:


    Last seen February 12, 2018. YMMV. ;)

    Lets see if any guy in their team is ready to face a bidirectional dialog. No doubt their early supporters would appreciate some related input being contributed right here where Loto Labs solicitated crowd-funding - and got it!

    :sherlock:

    Perhaps a micro-punctured metal band emulating what i envision as the ultimate contact-surface in 3D:

    [​IMG]
    Unfortunately that's "foamed aluminium" and its cells would be quite too large, but my point is that i'd favour a 3D material which is permeable in *ALL* directions, while providing more heat-exchange sites for less mass... Ideally (because there's a paradox trying to heat best while minimizing contact with metal surfaces, taste-wise).

    Lets assume that is correct, then i'd advise rolling your SS316 screen in order to create a tubular cavity from where the inner conduit can supply somewhat pre-heated fresh-air. But the vial is tiny and brittle, while experimentation may require it's fair share of trial & error... On top of that i believed 3 batteries and a 3-Phase IH driver would be more appropriate - and i still do!

    :doh:

    By chance there appear to be alternatives to dry flower bowls. e-Cig style i guess... :2c:

    Software emulation is the only option that i can imagine besides the real thing, Androïd is just another OS after all.:

    Google Search: Androïd LiveCD

    Good day, have fun!! :peace:
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018
  15. Razor

    Razor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    321
    Been playin with it. The battery seems to charge pretty quickly. I havent used a stronger one with it yet. I just used the bluetooth app to change the top temp setting to 100% (i believe the default was 68%) and I'm getting nice thick clouds now. Syncing the two was very simple and the controls consist of two dials. I really like how it is solid metal. It is very well built. I think I've definitely found a very good concentrate device. I still wouldnt buy it for the current price point, but it is very good and I'm glad that I got it for 80 bucks.
     
    StormyPinkness and Sonicboom1991 like this.
  16. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    591
    Location:
    up on a mountain
    I'v had that happen before with FedX. Back in the days of SilkRoad my imaginary evil twin sister had something ship from Canada to the US. Between Canada post and FedX it went coast to coast and back up north before finally getting to the desert SW.
     
    grokit likes this.
  17. Razor

    Razor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    321
    I like it more and more every time I use it. Feels very heavy in the hand and I've had about 400 compliments about it already.
     
  18. dingus

    dingus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    kanto
    Wonder when I'll receive mine? I'm one of the first supporters too. After months of no updates and frustration, I posted Neeraj's information from the whois database (his address and phone number that he made public domain) on the indiegogo comments section as well as information from their former partner on them running out of money and jumping ship, and he banned me from posting and wouldn't return my 2 e-mails.

    My degeneracy cost me 70 dollars :doh: . And I suppose stupidity too for even investing in this vaporware of a talking piece.
     
  19. butts

    butts Member

    Messages:
    13
    What number were you in line? I was order 226. If you go on IndieGoGo you can check yours out. Mine shipped last Monday, if yours is higher I wouldn't worry just yet. Then again, he got extremely ignorant with me when I asked him why there were no longer water piper adapters included (an early perk) and pretty much called me stupid for not understanding how the design and manufacturing process sometimes has changes. Seems like a man with a temper

    I can't wait to get my hands on mine. How much are you loading in the bowl? I saw someone say a rice sized amount? Do you think there would be any issue with shatter and crumble versus wax because of how it will cover the metal?
     
    Sonicboom1991 likes this.
  20. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,447
    Really that's not nice!

    In my experience it's better to load a bit more but it will work.

    edit: I get better clouds and medication after each new session still using stock settings, maybe it will get its place in my rotation. And I want to add it's a very good device for rosin with some impurities cause you can clean everything toroughly, more I use it more I like it!
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
    Egzoset, grokit and Sonicboom1991 like this.
  21. SameOldTim

    SameOldTim Previously Known as 'ThermoCoreTim' Manufacturer

    Messages:
    570
    Location:
    Redwood City
    Sounds on par.
     
    Sonicboom1991 likes this.
  22. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    591
    Location:
    up on a mountain
    Anyone tried it with Rosin?
     
    grokit and Sonicboom1991 like this.
  23. Razor

    Razor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    321
    Ive tried it with just about every type of concentrate. I'm actually thinking I would like this to get a bit hotter. I have it on 100% through the app and although it does get me pretty good and toasty, I'm getting quite a bit left over still. Has anyone used a stronger battery with it yet? What were your results?

    Wouldnt the septer thing be better if it were flat and more on the bottom as well as coming up through the middle? Llike a flat plunger.. for concentrate at least I mean. It seems it would make sense to have it in contact with it as much as possible. I wonder if it would be possile to flattin one a little..
     
  24. cbdprospector

    cbdprospector Member

    Messages:
    3
    Got mine in yesterday, order number 248. I am impressed that they actually sent it, I thought for sure I was out $78. ....not very impressed with the device. The dry herb attachment is a fail, I have been able to get a rosin hit by cranking the device up all the way up with a long preheat.
     
    Jill NYC likes this.
  25. Razor

    Razor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    321
    I tried the herb today. I hope they have a temperature setting in the future for it because I combusted pretty quick. I do have it set to 100% though. I got one hit of vapor and then I got taste like it was burning. It wasnt overpowering or harsh though. Just tasted like a joint. I'm not sure if there is something there or not but i definitely did get a nice hit of vapor on the first go. I packed the shit out of it because i figured its going to be somewhat like a conduction vape. I packed it tight so the heat wouldnt escape which seemed to work on the first puff but the second was combustion.

    I'm still very happy with the concentrate side. I went through some rosin last night. so is it possible to get vapor out of it? Yes... is it worth loading the little cartridge over and over? noooooooooo. The learning curve on it is pretty high too. Pulsing the button would probably be the way to go. The glass capsule for herb does stay hot for a long time after use too so there is a good deal of heat retention in there.
     
    Jill NYC likes this.

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