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Loto Labs Lux (formerly Evoke)

Discussion in 'Upcoming and Unreleased Portable Vaporizers' started by SameOldTim, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

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    Salutations PPN,
    Salutations everybody,

    This comment inspired another question of mine lately... Though lets have some multi-media 1st!

    :D

    It's about some ready-made flux concentrator that gets "cured" (hardened) in an oven once being given a desired shape. IMO only the Loto Labs manufacturer can provide suitable explanations relatively to this important subject.

    Any reasons not to? After all, the product is already patented, right?... :2c:

    Good day, have fun!! :peace:
     
    PPN likes this.
  2. Razor

    Razor Well-Known Member

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    If they change the design, they have to start the process all over. Patents are for the specific shape as well as the makeup. I'm not sure this is any longer the correct time to be re designing their products.

    I think currently, we should stay on target by reviewing what they have put out and how we can with what we have now can improve its use.

    How do you like your unit overall there Egzoset?
     
    Egzoset likes this.
  3. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

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    Salutations Razor,

    So it must feel like being on the edge?... The razor-edge!... :science:

    How is it being a pioneer?! :cool: Enjoy the fun, personally i was never tempted to trust such "happy" ending could even actually occur. That was some gamble, you won the day!!

    :clap:

    Great optimism! :tup: Please consider expressing more in picture(s)! :sherlock:

    Congratulations for the bargain, exception made of its associated delays!...

    :doh:

    The "septer thing" is a susceptor, right? :D Or briefly put: a wireless heater element...

    Go back to when i wrote about:

    Perhaps Loto labs kept a few doors opened for future easy-upgrades, try asking the "team"! All i can suggest is a possibility their firmware will account for a significant change of inductance in case of flux concentrating applications, with the modular coil assembly made of some corresponding magnetic material. Given the large difference in relative masses it should still remain an option to pre-heat the IH core while leaving the rest relatively neutral. I for one would be most curious to see what side the trade-off balance goes between battery-charge longevity vs workload energy requirements.

    :hmm:

    There again, i suppose the company explored such scenarios if they ever felt these considerations did need to be addressed seriously after all. Sorry but you'll have to ask whoever wants to answer for Loto labs! I'm simply suggesting a few questions for the curious mind...

    :2c:

    Good day, have fun!! :peace:
     
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  4. Gardenerjeff

    Gardenerjeff Author, Teaming Series of Organic Grow Books

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    Wow! It is here!! Mine arrived. Holy shit!

    Build is solid. It feels good in the hand. Mouth piece not sitting fully flush but all else very well done to be fair!

    Tried with flower. Learning curve to fill and pack. Not bad. No resistance. Learning curve on intake speed and strength of draw. Good taste! Combusted after a session so set temp with app.

    I can see this being a beast with wax. I would not pay 399 for a flower vape.

    Teaming

    Gardenerjeff

    More testing
     
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  5. Razor

    Razor Well-Known Member

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    321





    I'm not sure all of this needed to be said again..

    That would more likely be questions you should be sending the people that make this vape. They do answer questions by mail. They dont answer here so these speculations would help them better if they were to hear them themselves.

    "How is it being a pioneer?! :cool: Enjoy the fun, personally i was never tempted to trust such "happy" ending could even actually occur. That was some gamble, you won the day!!"

    Thats exactly what kick starter like websites are. A gamble. I knew that going in.

    Anyways, I've been playing with the dry herb attachment. If you go into the app and set it down to 70% and use a pulsing action, the herb chamber works much better. It needs a lower temp to heat up with and then a build up of vapor before you get going. A pretty large learning curve for sure to get the pulsing right.

    The battery seems be conditioning itself maybe? I seem to be getting a longer session before recharge now on the one batt. I still havent used another one with it yet. It's not going to replace anything else I have but it remains a fun device to use and an excellent conversation piece.
     
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  6. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

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    Hi again Razor,

    Oh yes, indeed. I, for one, find that most appropriate, on the contrary. Anyway just a few posts back i noticed that more feedback was announced, is it not?

    Or is that a bad mood day? I'd find capitulation somewhat premature, don't we agree?

    :shrug:

    More questions keep popping up on my side, as for my private correspondance with Loto Labs it was interrupted years ago for reasons i have no right to reveal in public since it's private mail, exactly. My only concern is inherited from topics which were hardly debated in 2010 when i wrote about induction heat for the 1st time on FC, weeks if not days after i registered, as i recall.

    Now, i'm getting worried! :hmm:

    How would one ever assume i'm here for Loto Labs given the written context?? Or is this intended as censorship?... Or just basically getting personal?? After "briefing" via PM in the background i guess?...

    Don't worry as those are only questions. :)

    Indeed, that's what i'm here for. To receive this valuable input from a 1st-person perspective - and it's clear i do have more thoughts of my own to express, if you don't mind.

    :2c:

    It's a feat to find we agree at least on the last point about the importance of sharing the fun, though i can't seem to feel your enthousiams. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day, do not despair...

    ;)

    While i'm around i'd like to add some perspective of my own, the workload to begin with:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    This is shreaded dry-flower material and here's what's the vaporist challenge alike, as far as i'm concerned. It's about how are we supposed to maximize energy transfer to trichome glands while minimizing dispersion to surrounding vegetal substrate... Motivation to do so is potential access to the most "bio" cannabic workload that pro-cannabic consumers can possibly dream of: the shortest path of least transformation!

    Imagine your favourite dry cannabis being sorted on a molecular basis, at a scale where some vesicles located at the base of each trichome gland take an active part to their genesis, in situ! That's way beyond ape-age "filltration" and all its unnecessary manipulations. Consider how pure the "sugar" shall prove to be when perfectly cured, using true "bio". YMMV but that should be quite a treat IMHO.

    :leaf:

    In any case that's a mission requiring an energy source with some more puch and yet not necessarily an energy budget to waste as futile heat losses, vegetal substrate baking for example, etc.

    Too bad but i don't need or feel like contacting Loto Labs in hope this may help to understand the severe trade-offs endorsed by that particularily mute manufacturer, starting with conduction mode - and that's no "speculation". Loto Labs proved it could talk for itself.

    :ko:

    About a "pumping" action i suppose it's worth a try, but when it comes to "pulse" mode i've got something radically different in mind which i've tagged "Packetized" and "Micro-Bursting", among other aspects... Packetized in the sense of "quanta", which means the overall heat charge is divided in smaller packets (or bursts) that can be handled within all heat-tolerance ranges by taking advantage of delay barriers preventing instantaneous heat diffusion (e.g. relatively slow thermalization). As for "Bursting" it's about doing more with less, or « Divide to Conquer »...

    :science:

    Take note how large the shreaded vegetal tissue happens to be compared to a single crystalized trichome gland... Is that not an opportunity hardly compatible with slow conduction heat?...

    Alternately, does the Loto Labs handy IH generator absolutely exclude future conversions to a mix of radiative/convective heat, eventually? Sorry to bring it back, 'cause i'm afraid if the manufacturer failed to explore such stimulating matters successfully in a matter of years then what's the point hoping for a change of attitude after a few months?... Sounds like "wishful thinking" to me, YMMV.

    :doh:

    Nothing personal, those are questions i could have asked in 2010, when i wondered myself. No review to expect from me, or is it mandatory to post in this pioneer IH-dedicated thread??

    One way or another i still got to ask if energy bursts can be generated that match workload requirements as illustrated above. E. G. melt the goodies starting with their contact-surface 1st, no need to bake everything.

    I'm convinced Electro-Magnetic Induction Heat supports these options, it's a matter of trade-offs as you've demonstrated yourself.

    :cool:

    Good day, have fun!! :peace:
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  7. Gardenerjeff

    Gardenerjeff Author, Teaming Series of Organic Grow Books

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    After a full day. Junk. No good. Too complicated to load for such poor results...sorry
    Loto labs. Does not meet my standards for even weekly use.

    Teaming

    Gardenerjeff
     
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  8. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

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    Is somebody can post a pic of the dry herb attachment, please? My units didn't came with it...
     
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  9. Gardenerjeff

    Gardenerjeff Author, Teaming Series of Organic Grow Books

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    Mine was wrapped in bubble wrap with no label. thought it was packing....looks like the other only it has a small dome screen and hour glass like inside with open new. very weird that they though folks would fiddle with it.

    Phone app does not stay working on my iphone. has to be reloaded.

    Mouthpiece not fitting securely and snuggly. Magnets loose. Oh man, what were they vaping when they did this one?

    teaming

    gardenerjeff
     
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  10. Razor

    Razor Well-Known Member

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    All of what you wrote would have been better sent to loto labs because we cant answer the quetions you have any better than they can. If you have a ton of ideas for the device, theres no better way to go about it then talking to them about it. Its not like any of us can do what youre talking about. I would love loto labs to respond about it here themselves like other manufactuerers do, but im sure we can expect them NOT to do that here. All of your speculation doesnt help us much.
     
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  11. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

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    Salutations again, Razor,

    M'well, what on earth can help you anyway?! Why do you think did i risk such further "socializing" frustration coming back here after so many years of total absence, while i just couldn't but notice that all this time the one lasting contribution (if any) has been from Loto Labs supporting quite a sad impression themselves - about IH technology remaining little else than a bad joke forever (which is in vain besides the never-ending flow of "speculations", exactly)!...

    This relative failure belongs to Loto Labs and perhaps those who tolerated it for too long as well, sorry but *i* do NOT deserve any part of it as i wasn't even around to influence discussions, how about you?!

    :2c:

    Please try to forget Egzoset as a topic, instead lets keep in mind that while the lame went on there's been a quest that was pursued until satisfactory conclusions could be reached, isolated from fanboyism interference.

    Lucky me i was never tempted to waste my modest resources on seeking anonymous affectionate support on-line. Believe it or not my personal source of motivation ain't mainstream, as if anyone cares.

    So... As far as i'm concerned a basic "Bi-Energy" strategy sufficed to acquire some radically different hands-on background. Reflexions eventually emerged from all those years, fueled by "the power of fire" instead of awaiting for a "Lux" prototype that can serve few other purposes than to tie hands ad nauseam.

    Sometimes it pays to invest into observations with roots in trial & error. Feel free to reject it as a bloc if that's not "sexy" enough to follow; i'm still convinced early supporters and silent lurkers altogether may appreciate my initial invitation to welcome a novel niche which does indeed call for additional transposition work, hopefully leading to duplication then relevant peer-reviews someday.

    Pulse-mode operation as i experience it actually relies on real power which a single battery can hardly pretend to emulate, nonetheless "impossible" sounds premature until whatever IH drive emanating from a Lux has been properly evaluated relatively to practical dry flowers amounts (and associated considerations)!

    :science:

    ...

    Most clearly, i'd be genuinely surprized to hear from any other individuals also in a position to comment from a 1st-person perspective on the simili "catapult" effect i routinely exploit for the approximative "packetization" of temporarily-stored heat charges powering my modest prototyping platform.

    Butane or IH, a Joule is a Joule is a Joule. So, how many Joules contained in a "Hybrid" SiC/Metal (sandwich) structure would prove necessary to vape 1 single trichome gland inserted in a Lux vial? M'well, for starters...

    Good day, have fun!! :peace:
     
  12. HD Springer

    HD Springer Well-Known Member

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    This vaporizer and thread is just mind boggling. Has been since the very beginning. Still a joy to read and follow though.
     
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  13. Unisonruss

    Unisonruss Well-Known Member

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    I'm not very impressed with this vape. I have others I much prefer. My tastes have changed a lot since the many years that passed, after I contributed.

    I don't care about bluetooth. Vapes should be simple, not smart... in my humble opinion. It does produce pretty good taste, heat up is great. Clouds pretty thin with dry herb. I like the look, but wish it was smaller, and that it was all wood on the outside. The mouthpiece stays on, but the fit isn't flush with the capsule inserted. Nor a big deal, but wit worth mentioning. Definitely needs a better battery. I think it would function better.

    I'll probably post it in the classifieds soon.
     
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  14. Razor

    Razor Well-Known Member

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    I was inspecting the unit and the mouthpiece is like that on design from the looks of it. The air intake is where the mouthpiece is on the bottom.

    I'm pretty surprised it doesnt have a charging port. This vape is pretty much just a conversation piece. The dry herb has a huge learning curve. Still love it for the concentrates though.
     
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  15. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

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    Salutations Razor,

    That's too vague for me, can you state clearly that there's no coupling via partial/juxtaposed containment with air surrounding electronic components. In other words, should it catch fire, where do the fumes go? Is there a direct path to that "Fresh-Air" inlet port, for example?...

    Just asking since you've got it in your hands. IMO future consumers are entitled to know if they must ventilate it onwith their own lungs too.

    :sherlock:

    Good day, have fun!! :peace:
     
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  16. Razor

    Razor Well-Known Member

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    The vape is not air tight. If you cover the air intake on the mp, air comes in from the seems of the unit. . The internal components are encased in their own shell when the evoke is taken apart. The only thing youre able to touch without an inner casing on it is the battery unless you start taking screws out. Any smoke looks like it would be dispelled through the seems that dont make an air tight seal.

    As for fires, the fumes would have to be expelled by the seems of the metal casing as well as through the mp intake on the bottom of the device. It is not an air tight case. The battery is seperated from your mouth by a wall of delrin as well.

    If you open the unit, the air intake placement makes more sense as there is no air intake pipe to keep the airpatch un touched by electronics.

    Anything that can catch fire is blocked by the wall of delrin as well. None of this forms an air tight seal though.

    To get an air tight seal on the body, a rubber seal would be needed.
     
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  17. butts

    butts Member

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    13
    I've been using mine occasionally over the last two weeks.

    For concentrates, it does provide some good vapor, but at the end of each session I see plenty wasted on the bottom of the glass that has melted down the metal rod during use. When I say good vapor, I'm judging it for the $79 that I paid, not the price that they are charging now. I don't see this working well with shatter or crumble, but more sticky concentrates.

    I walked around with it for a day and it has terrible pocket-ability. Aside from the size, the weak magnets that they used in the mouthpiece caused my mouth piece to keep coming off all day. When I was hitting it and moved my hand, the mouthpiece stuck in my mouth from my draw suction and the vape broke away. Terrible, terrible magnets. They're almost as bad as putting a single 18650 to power the induction coil.

    The app is extremely basic on iOS but I have had no issues whatsoever, even on the initial pair. Still playing around with what idle temp I want, but I turned the main temp up to 100 when I used concentrates

    When I take the capsule out, I have to take the battery door off and pinch it out because it sticks in. Not sure why they didn't put an edge to grab with your fingernail.

    The dry herb capsule, like others have said, is pretty useless. I won't go into detail because I can sum it up with one word: combustion. I experimented with all different power settings, it eventually combusted at the base every time it began to produce a light vapor for maybe 2-3 draws.


    I can try to answer any questions, but I see this as more of a conversation piece unless someone figures out a mod or aftermarket solution.

    Anyways, here's some pictures for the curious.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I added some pictures, hope they can give you a clearer idea of the airpath. The gaps where the metal doesn't meet the mouthpiece is where the air comes through to my understanding
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2018
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  18. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

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    Thanks a lot for your feedback, since I didn't received flowers capsule I was close to pay shipping to get one but will stick with concentrâtes. @butts did you get a huge loss in the bottom of the capsule even using the 100% heating level? that's my actual issue but I'm on stock settings (no smartphone!), it's like a poolling issue with dabbing, you get all the terps first and after the potency. The Pipes induction heater seems to provide a lot more heat in regards to the vapour amount I can see if I put a capsule in Pipes IH.... maybe too much !

    Since the heater is the susceptor the vaporpath/airpath is pretty short but fresh air is pulled from the unit itself (which is not air tight like @Razor mentionned) and going in the capsule from the small holes on the walls where it catch the "fumes" from the heated susceptor soaked by goodies and go out the capsule by the top operture directly in the mp (here there is a black rubber seal you can see on the @butts pictures).

    I didn't played a lot with my Lux's lately...
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  19. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

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    Salutations Butts,
    Salutations PPN,


    [​IMG]
    Thank you all for posting pictures as i could finally gain some clear view on a capsule's inlet holes. Looking at the overall layout it's like that was planned kind of late, like a late-minute addition (...), which IMO explains why it fails its primary purpose indeed.

    SHAME. :ugh:

    M'yeah, all it's good for now is provide dimensions for eventual alternatives, if possible at all.

    :shrug:

    Pipes is relying on a realistic supply voltage to begin with, long ago i figured transistor channel resistance would be some serious handicap hurting single-battery scenarios badly. Too bad there's still probably so much power wasted in excess mass besides that of a DynaVap cap, for example.

    That was to be expected and i'm finally starting to see confirmation of an old concern, it was a long wait just to reach this level of details while reviews are about to pile up. Thanks again, i can appreciate efforts to satisfy my own curiosity.

    :tup:

    I can only imagine, it gets increasing harder to think of a convenient exit...

    Good day, have fun!! :peace:
     
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  20. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

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    I can't say specifically for the dry herb caps but the concentrates capsule is 3.7cm heigth and OD is a bit up of 1cm and ID is just above the cm.

    Finally I got the pleasure to share a dinner with a good friend owning a smartphone, after dinner we downloaded the app but it wasn't easy to connect the App and the unit, it was finally done after a few tries but, none of both, me and my friend, was able to tell how it was done!

    Just Something I don't understand, draw power is it the t°/power level? and what is the idle power, got through a translator and answer was not explicit.... for me! Any helps appreciated!

    Set the draw power at 100 and the idle power at 48 (?) and got bigger clouds for sure but still far of an Hercule's cloud, although I just took some hits not more and since my friend is gone back I'm with a device at 100% and another one on stock setting.

    Testing is not over....
     
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  21. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

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    Hi there PPN!

    Ouch! That's so tight, i was hoping for at least 14 mm (dia.), but i still thank you very much for providing something solid to chew on!!

    :nod:

    Any thermostatic closed-loop requires some "input" for the purpose of dynamic self-correction, that could be a cheap thermally-coupled diode junction acting as a temperature-dependant sensor, or if the susceptor's alloy has a Curie effect then i figure perhaps a pickup-coil will do. Or maybe back-EMF sampled from the power driving stage, but quite frankly i'd assume it's not this "smart" after all...

    :|

    That sounds like "pre-heating" to me but i can be real creative when guessing this much i'm afraid!

    :ko:

    It's a good thing you won't give up just yet, keep thinking positive! For example are there any reasons why a "live" CD/USB Androïd OS won't boot on your system or even via emulation?

    For example, using the "YUMMi v2.0.5.4" (Flash-USB) tool i could verify just minutes ago that it does offer an "Android x86" item, after all.

    Other probable sources of interest:

    [ www.android-x86.org/ ]
    Android-x86 Open Source Project

    [ www.frandroid.com/android/mises-a-jour-android/429782_android-o-la-liste-des-smartphones-et-tablettes-compatibles-mise-a-jour ]
    Mise à jour Android 8.0 Oreo: la liste des smartphones et tablettes compatibles​

    ...

    Good day, have fun!! :peace:
     
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  22. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

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    The issue is I'm totally not fine with computers and, habitually, I'm crying when I realize all the time I spent with this f** machines... but i have a solution now, 2 in fact:
    - a geek friend which is a wizard of the net will be able to do that emulation on my computer
    - I was thinking to get a tablet as a gift for my wife birthday.... and borrow it to her to upload the App:D!

    The dry herb caps looks more engineered than expected (from the @butts pictures) but if this doesn't work I'm afraid all my diy efforts to vape a flowers bowl will be loss of time and good flowers waste.

    But I'm happy to be able to blow some biggers clouds of tasty concentrates.... at least!
     
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  23. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

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    Hi again PPN,

    Well, with such low-energy budget even perfect manufacturing could still happen to correspond to broken (dry flower) engineering and the picture wouldn't appear to give a clue. I wish at least a customized Vaponic (VapBong) could fit inside!

    [​IMG]
    IH-friendly Glass Paths (2010-Nov-8)
    Basically this would garanty no customers ever need to ventilate electronics even partially as they inhale. But then there's the matter of finding a viable trade-off for the metallic contact-surface, keeping in mind that the maximum permissible susceptor mass remains unknown so far... E.G. how hot it can get and for how long.

    That's the spirit. Looking at it i'd say it always was an over-sized e-Cig inside, maybe it's better just stick to that perspective when satisfied.

    Good day, have fun!! :peace:
     
    PPN likes this.
  24. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,447
    Hi, did you saw the new Switch from DrDabber? It's a induction heated unit too but seems to work well with flowers in a different maner Lotobabs do it, the induction heated part is not a susceptor but the bowl itself and there is no airflow at all through the load, it seems you only catch the fumes coming froim the top of the bowl.... I can't see how this design might works well but, from the first testers report (Switch is not avalaible yet), this is works very well!

    This is gave me some ideas but I'm afraid the problem will be the same: not enough power to do that and maybe the Lux can't heat properly something bigger than a susceptor... I'll try to find a way to test that.

    Just to say, I'm now using one device at max t° with concentrâtes, yes slightly bigger clouds but harsher, too much diluted with air and taste suffers. It medicates me a lot more efficiently at 100% but there is still a good amount of unvaped goodies on the bottom. I'm thinking to try to block most air inlets on the side of the glass capsule in order to get a sort of carb-cap effect and more concentrated hits.

    No' @Egzoset I can't say I'm satisfied at all, I try to find the positives but there so much negatives....
     
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  25. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

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    Salutations PPN,

    It's only meant to happen, more and more; the problem comes with implementation.

    Well, honestly i'm not sure i can visualize this correctly.

    As you may have noticed i'm all in favour of these exchanges, which is no "Lux" in this dedicated thread, if i may say so...

    :tup:

    Actually are we absolutely sure about this?? Maybe it's insufficient only because there's none to waste and yet once looking at their IH driver cavity i realized there's plenty of space for a Hybrid Core to light up a big cigar. The more fundamental problem is how this limited power is being used, so lets have a closer look at those pictures posted previously:
    M'yeap, plenty of space to implement my initial 2-in-1 sotution where path purity is garanteed while lack of power turns into a bad dream. I'm surprized no reader felt appropriate to intervein in order to point out that in some "Micro-Bursting" mode relying on temporarily-stored heat-charges there's effectively no requirement to keep the wand inside its associated portable IH driver, Lux or else...

    So, how deep is that coil cavity? :sherlock:

    M'well, the reason i'm this optimistic is because, you see, it's about "The Power of Fire":

    :cool:

    Here's how i see it. Distribute your maximum allowable/viable susceptor weight into thin punctured foils meant for a multi-layer Hybrid Core as i suggested previously, except many stages may be necessary. Ideally each foil needs to be laser-etched i'd say, as for the SiC slices they shouldn't be made any thiner than ~2 mm as this material may prove too fragile.

    Briefly put, stop wasting power, store it and build up a "Heat Charge" until there's enough to support a "Micro-Bursting" consumption mode instead... The "Packetization" effect associated to temporary heat storage should help avoid hot-spotting which otherwise would lead to combustion faster, eventually. By the time it gets to roast, some fair number of satisfactory tokes have been extracted already. Hence, the one other problem i foresee is pre-heat time vs battery-charge lifetime, to be honest.

    In any case think of the "catapult" effect, or just how piling up cells of alternating materials caused an inventor's name to designate an electric dimmension, now known as "Voltage" (e.g. thanks to mister Volta). Space rockets relied on stages too, or sandwich structures if you will.

    Separate the Pre-Heat phase from the Inhalation one!

    :science:

    If Loto Labs were as sport as they sounded 4 years ago then i'd suggest them to evaluate this Curie-based scenario, to offer a way to "tweak" the output while providing additional protection against combustion:

    Is it OKay to wonder how many 1 cm (dia.) punctured foils equal the maximum susceptor weight of a Lux?

    Unfortunately we can only guess how much more contact-surface that would be in comparison to my customized VG pipe...

    :2c:

    Good day, have fun!! :peace:
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018

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