pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
Question about the batteries…

Have always understood that on rechargeable batteries on a cellphone, laptop, etc. that maximum battery life achieved by running battery completely dead before recharging. From what I read earlier in this thread, that is not the case with this type of battery? Or did I understand that wrong?

Being that the price is very fair for the batteries, I'm not that worried about totally maximizing the battey life, I've been switching to fresh battery prior to totally discharging the one I'm using…More just trying to understand fully what y'all discussed.

You have misunderstood. Discharging completely is not good for li-ion batteries. It shortens their life and if you discharge too deeply, it will shut down and possibly kill the battery. The best way to use li-ion batteries is shallow discharges and frequent charges.

The way li-ion batteries are used in a vapourizer already compromises their lifespan. Running them flat is just asking for trouble.
 

JoeKickass

Well-Known Member
Question about the batteries…

Have always understood that on rechargeable batteries on a cellphone, laptop, etc. that maximum battery life achieved by running battery completely dead before recharging.
Theres_Your_Problem368.jpg

(They're frogs!!) So much gold in that search: Well, There's Your Problem

But yes, you should notice better life with phones and laptops too, if you plug them in when you can and try to keep at least 50% charged, I leave my laptop in 24/7 and the five year old battery still lasts for hours! (Well, 2 or 3 :D)
 
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SEAttown206

Well-Known Member
^^^ Thanks for the replies :)

All this time I have always thought when I plugged them in without fully draining them first that that was detrimental.

Ya learn something new everyday ;)

Now I'm off to go search WELL, THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM
 

Lizard King

Well-Known Member
Oddly enough, for me not much. I still press for five seconds then start pulling. I like low temperature tasty vapour so I still release the button after about 3 seconds most of the time. The difference is that without the S2 kit, if I kept the button down I'd have be really careful not to combust. With the S2, I can keep pulling as long as I like and the combustion risk is almost non-existent. I have on occasion held it down so I could pull a big cloud. You can get clouds out of the conduction version too but it's a lot trickier.

pakalolo- thank you for taking the time to answer my question and also for the info / photos that you (and others) have provided on this thread in general. It's much appreciated by me, and no doubt, by countless other people too.

I ordered two black FV S-2's today (one for a friend's birthday), plus some extra S-2 batteries, extra glass straws and a filter screen/O-ring replacement pack. Along with the extra screens already included for free for FC members, I figure we will be all set for a while.

I ended up choosing this particular for many reasons, including:

- materials and build quality
- speed / on demand usage only
- conduction (original) and convection (S-2) capabilities
- cost
- direct flow intake
- replaceable batteries

It also just happens to be about the size that I wanted for home usage. I have to say that the real deal-clinchers for me though were the quick and thorough responses to various questions that I have received from FlashVAPE over the last few days, plus the free international delivery to the other side of the world. Oh...and the good initial reviews along with Vitolo's video of huge clouds didn't exactly push me away either.
 

Chill Dude

Well-Known Member
You have misunderstood. Discharging completely is not good for li-ion batteries. It shortens their life and if you discharge too deeply, it will shut down and possibly kill the battery. The best way to use li-ion batteries is shallow discharges and frequent charges.

The way li-ion batteries are used in a vapourizer already compromises their lifespan. Running them flat is just asking for trouble.

Paka, good info on charging the batteries.... I was also wondering once the batteries are fully charged, approximately how long will they stay charged w/o losing power? The reason I ask this is that I would prefer to charge 5 or 6 batteries in advance for camping trips and other outings. I'm just not sure if the Flashvape batteries would lose their charge quickly or not. Thanks
 
Chill Dude,

pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
Paka, good info on charging the batteries.... I was also wondering once the batteries are fully charged, approximately how long will they stay charged w/o losing power? The reason I ask this is that I would prefer to charge 5 or 6 batteries in advance for camping trips and other outings. I'm just not sure if the Flashvape batteries would lose their charge quickly or not. Thanks

Unless you're talking weeks, you'll be fine. Li-ion batteries have a low self-discharge rate.
 

JoeKickass

Well-Known Member
I plan to try a kief bowl in the FV, just like the Pax in my avatar :o
Turns out I need to get more kief, I have no idea how that keeps happening...

Instead I thought I'd try something else:
oQr4ZnJ.jpg


This stuff has a great smell for bubble hash, this should give you an idea of how big the bowl was:
TqfjYxE.jpg

bie9tAr.jpg


I tried this hash before and knew it doesn't melt, you don't want to use something that would melt through to your heater! This is after 4-5 hits:
S57fvYb.jpg


The taste is great if you keep the preheat under 7 seconds, but the hash does take more heat. The vapor isn't as thick as flower but man oh man is it effective!

Also, stirring can be messy:
51iEdfv.jpg



And by the end my clean FV needed cleaning again!
BaXYizV.jpg


But a few minutes with q-tips and iso and it was back to normal:
4lc3Mik.jpg


So even though it is a bit messy, I heartily recommend hash in the FV simply because it is so potent!
:mmmm:
 

JoeKickass

Well-Known Member
Yeah my 3.2v batteries are definitely on the way out, I only measure 8.5 amps with a freshly charged battery...

On the plus side I tried out a 1600mah aw imr and it was epic to say the least! I wait less than a second, then draw fast to catch up with the insane heat, and got some massive hits with no charring!
 
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Egzoset

Banned
Salutations everyone,

I'll risk asking: what's the operating current and/or heater resistance please?

39.gif


I'm also curious about the specific side markings on each battery, in picture form if possible...

For example:


:peace:
 
Egzoset,

JoeKickass

Well-Known Member
Salutations everyone,

I'll risk asking: what's the operating current and/or heater resistance please?

heater is 0.3 ohms, I measured over 9 amps with a brand new one of these:
lifepo4_battery_cell_valence_18650_1350mah_3.jpg


And my meter only goes to 10 amps so it'll die if I test the 3.7v aw:
aw-IMR-18650-1600mAh-3.7v-500x500.JPG


But this is the best very high drain battery, your cera doesn't take so much power so the hybrid battery you posted is probably the best one for that device
 
JoeKickass,

Egzoset

Banned
Salutations JoeKickass,

...what's the operating current and/or heater resistance please?

...0.3 ohms... ...9 amps...

Oh my! Isn't that similar to a short-circuit? I would have imagined maybe 3.0 Ω or so instead, as in the e-cigs if i recall correctly.

...cera doesn't take so much power...

Thank you for sharing all of this in formation, including the pair of illustrating pictures which lead me to this web site: http://victpower.en.alibaba.com/

:tup:

Hummm... So, i guess V = R x I:

ohmswattslaw.jpg

Now we can start searching for documentation on Li-Mn 3.7 Volts batteries marked "AW IMR 18650"!

Lets see...


General advice
Use safer-chemistry batteries such as Li-Mn or protected Li-ion
Note: we no longer recommend Li-FePo4 batteries because of two important factors:

They require a special charger, or the switch on a dual-voltage charger to be correctly positioned - which means mistakes will be made.
They now appear to be the most commonly counterfeited battery, and could be re-covered reject unprotected Li-ion cells instead of Li-FePo4 - it may be impossible to verify the supply chain or what the battery really is.

...and...

Nominal Voltage : 3.7V​
Capacity : 1600mAH​
Lowest Discharge Voltage : 2.50V​
Standard Charge : CC/CV ( max. charging rate 4.5A )​
Cycle Life : > 500 cycles​
Max. continuous discharge rate : 15C​
Operating Discharge Temperature : -10 - 60 Degree Celsius​

:science:

...and at the end it wouldn't hurt having some demonstration showing that unfortunate incidents won't risk happening...


« ...what can happen when you use an unprotected battery... »

40.gif


Please someone tell me how the manufacturer has made certain we never see posts like that around here! I don't care if they swear, whatever, i just simply want to read about these things here, since that's where i'd expect to find related subjects. In this thread but also elsewhere on FuckCombustion.

Etc., etc... Etcetara!

You see, this is the sort of basic information i seek.

:peace:
 
Egzoset,

momofthegoons

vapor accessory addict
Egzoset, this seems to be the same kind of irresponsible fear mongering that you were trying to start in the Cera thread. From the same link that you gave for the picture:

Please Note:
1. Shorting out a safer-chemistry battery in the pocket or purse can create a fire.
These batteries can supply tens of amps when short-circuited - there is one that can deliver 70 amps.
YOU MUST SWITCH OFF YOUR ECIG USING A MASTER SWITCH OR REMOVE THE CARTO, when putting it away in a purse or pocket.

2. Loose batteries must be placed inside a safe, non-conducting container where nothing can touch the terminals. A metal case is not ideal.

3. All well-known batteries are extensively counterfeited now, and this applies especially to AW and Tenergy. All AW batteries sold on Alibaba are counterfeit. Fake batteries are dangerous.

So..... the woman put her batteries in a metal container (which isn't advised per the above), chances are she did not switch off her ecig using the master switch or remove the carto and put it in her pocket, and all well known batteries are known to be counterfeited now and should be purchased from a reputable vendor.

And you are willing to believe that none of this will happen if the manufacturer swears it's so? Seriously? Enough of this. I think this has been explained to you here adequately. If you need further explanation, take it up with the manufacturer by pm.
 

Egzoset

Banned
Public discussion of a mod decision is not permitted. Infraction issued.
Salutations MomOfTheGoons,

Please don't feel like you need to justify your decision, i'll just abide and you should have known better.

:peace:
 
Egzoset,

Vitolo

Vaporist
They sell a simple ring to slide over all ecigs, that prevent the button from being pushed.
They sell them locally for 50¢
HERE it is 1.50, but well worth it. It fits ALL ecigs and most pen vapes
 

JoeKickass

Well-Known Member
Just in case anyone is interested, the orange aw imr batteries are fine in the FV, the spec is "Max. continuous discharge rate : 15C" which means 15x the capcity. 15 * 1.6 is 24 amps :o

Even fully charged 4.2v / 0.3ohms is only 14 amps so the FV isn't even pushing it..


Thank you for sharing all of this in formation, including the pair of illustrating pictures which lead me to this web site: http://victpower.en.alibaba.com/
:tup:
Sorry that's where google image search found it, that's a source from china
 

FlashVAPE

...fast and efficient ! http://flashvape.com
Manufacturer
The FV battery has been discussed in previous postings on this thread already, but I'm going to post the information again here for everyone's convenient reference.

==========================================​

The battery we have chosen to power the FlashVAPE is a Valence LiFeMgPo4 (lithium iron magnesium phosphate) cell, which is among the safest, most stable of any Li-ion batteries on the market today. This can be confirmed with a little research into li-ion battery varieties. What this means is that this cell is chemically very stable at high discharge rates (2+C stable discharge and up to 3+C pulse discharge rate), without the risk of exploding or giving any gaseous discharge. You can explore the safety aspects of this type of cell on Valence's website: http://valence.com. You can literally short the battery with a copper wire, and the wire will burn red hot, but the battery will be fine... and kids, please don't try this at home... you'll likely burn down the house, but the battery will probably still be ok :)

Secondly, this particular cell is rated at 3.2V operating voltage, as opposed to 3.7V for regular Li-ion 18650 cells. Our chargers are specially made to matched to this voltage, with cut-off at 3.65V. Please don't use any other battery in the FlashVAPE, or charge our batteries with any other chargers. The battery itself is self-regulated with cut-off below 2V. This battery has a rated life cycle of >2000 (100% DOD) to 80% capacity. Which means that you can recharge it over 2000 times before it will drop to below 80% of its rated full capacity (you can probably still use it a whole lot longer after 2000 charges!).

Valence LiFeMgPo4 cells power electric vehicles all over the world, its the cell powering the SEGWAY, and it is the only cell we find good enough for the FlashVAPE.

When selecting the cell for the FlashVAPE, we tested over 20 different li-ion batteries. With safety first and foremost on our minds, second only to performance and longevity of use, we went with this Valence cell. Although there are lower priced options available, we feel that the Valence cell is the right choice when you combine all these factors.

==========================================​
It should be again noted that FV smart chargers are SPECIFICALLY MANUFACTURED TO MATCH the 3.2v LiFePo4 cell, with cut off at 3.65v as opposed to regular 4.2v chargers for 3.7v cells. You should only use the included FV smart charger to charge the FV 3.2v cell. This is an important safety matter that needs to be mentioned.​
Below you will find a picture of the 3.2V VALENCE LiFePo4 cells that power the FV, current FV owners can confirm this..... You will notice that there are 2 slightly different types of branding labels on these cells, one which labels the cell as: VALENCE SAPHION 3.2V, and one that labels as: LISHEN VALENCE PROVEN 3.2V. They are the exact same cell, model: IFR-18650EC. These cells are made by a Chinese mega-factory: LISHEN, for VALENCE. We receive about the same number of each style (mixed) when we receive our battery shipment, which means these cells are not separated even ex-factory. We've also been told that the packaging of this IFR-18650EC cell may be updated again in the near future, so we'll have to wait to see what they look like when released. There will be no change in manufacturing specs regardless of the outer packaging.

valence 3.2v.jpg

We are working on re-badging the FV cells with our own custom slip-on covers for some added coolness, so you will soon see FV cells look like this:

FlashVAPE-batteriesx600.new.png


-----------------------------------------------------------------------​
FV STAGE-2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------​
For FV STAGE-2 fans, I am also happy to provide further details on your 3.7v high drain cell for those interested to know:​
panasonic samsung.jpg
Above you will find the Panasonic CGR18650CH 3.7v high drain cell (top), which we were originally planning to use in the S-2. However, this cell is said to be discontinued soon, and is in the process of being phased out by the manufacturer. That being the case, we have chosen the SAMSUNG ICR18650-22PM high drain 3.7v cell (bottom) as the replacement. Both these cells are rated 2200 mah, and both are safe, high-drain cells (rated over 10A) which supports the kind of extreme power the S-2 calls for. We have done extensive testing on both, with the exact same performance when used in the S-2.​
The SAMSUNG ICR18650CH is a top-quality LiNiMnCoO2 cell, made in Korea by Samsung Electronics. Our FV STAGE-2 chargers are designed to match the specs of this cell, with cut-off at 4.2v.​
The original FV chargers and the FV-S2 chargers are each clearly labelled on the front and on the back, so its will be easy to distinguish between the two. However, please do pay particular attention when you are charging the FV cells, to use the right charger with each different cell.​
We are re-badging FV-S2 cells with our own custom slip-on covers to look like this:​
S2-batteriesx600.png
Needless to say, we source all our cells through large, reputable dealers only. Actually, counterfit cells are not all that difficult to spot if you know what you are looking for. A simple comparison of the physical aspects of the cell (especially the weight of the cell, and the "+" and "-" ends) will usually give the fake away, and a further simple performance test will definitely let you know if you are buying fake batteries.​

 

JoeKickass

Well-Known Member
...We are working on re-badging the FV cells with our own custom slip-on covers for some added coolness... so its will be easy to distinguish between the two. However, please do pay particular attention when you are charging the FV cells, to use the right charger with each different cell...We are re-badging FV-S2 cells with our own custom slip-on covers
I do like your design but I think you might want to consider keeping the 3.2v batteries green.

You want them to be as obviously different as possible to avoid mishaps imo
 

vorrange

Vapor.wise
I was wondering that the FV is the perfect vaporizer to understand the differences between conduction and convection while minimizing the conduction that happens due to contact to the chamber walls since it won't get as hot as other vaporizers.

Can someone please relate the main differences in taste intensity and pureness, taste duration, even roasting and vapor temperature and harshness?

According to my experience, convection will be superior in every category except vapor temperature and harshness since convection needs the air to be hot and a small vapor path will mean hot air into the lungs along with flying bits as well.
 
vorrange,

pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
I was wondering that the FV is the perfect vaporizer to understand the differences between conduction and convection while minimizing the conduction that happens due to contact to the chamber walls since it won't get as hot as other vaporizers.

Can someone please relate the main differences in taste intensity and pureness, taste duration, even roasting and vapor temperature and harshness?

According to my experience, convection will be superior in every category except vapor temperature and harshness since convection needs the air to be hot and a small vapor path will mean hot air into the lungs along with flying bits as well.

I load my FV with .1 g at a time, so there is minimal (almost no) contact with the walls of the bowl. I think you are right that the FV can be a good tool to explore the differences between conduction and convection, but for me at least, those differences aren't as great as I would have thought. I'd say the S2 delivers smoother vapour but the flavour in conduction mode is already excellent so S2 doesn't improve it that much. It's pretty pure and lasts a long time in both modes. The vapour path is long enough to provide a little cooling, and the top screen is quite fine and catches particulates really well. It is easier for novices to get clouds out of the S2, but see below.

I went back to conduction over the last week and I was quite happy with it. As I wrote earlier in the thread, at some point I passed a boundary with the FV and conduction mode became instinctive. From that point on I felt that I could do whatever I want with it and the chance of combustion just simply wasn't an issue. I can just sense from the taste and temperature when to stop heating. I can get vapour just as thick as I can with the S2 kit without a problem. That's because for me there is no longer any difference in operation, since I can use the same timings and techniques and get similar results with both conduction and convection. Of course others might have a different experience.
 

JoeKickass

Well-Known Member
Yeah tbh I think the standard FV is more than 50% convection as long as you draw while you hold the power on. If you power off, then hit I think it's probably more conduction but it also tastes like crap for me.

With the Pax you really compress the bowl to get fast conduction heat transfer, but since you load the FV loosely the amount of heat transferred by conduction must be really small (only the very edges of the bud particles that physically touch the heater) as soon as you start drawing the hot convection currents are pulled evenly through the rest of the bud
 
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pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
Yeah tbh I think the standard FV is more than 50% convection as long as you draw while you hold the power on. If you power off, then hit I think it's probably more conduction but it also tastes like crap for me.

With the Pax you really compress the bowl to get fast conduction heat transfer, but since you load the FV loosely the amount of heat transferred by conduction must be really small (only the very edges of the bud particles that physically touch the heater) as soon as you start drawing the hot convection currents are pulled evenly through the rest of the bud

That's a good point. The most common way I hit the FV in conduction mode is press for 5 seconds, then draw for ~3 seconds with the power still on. That does add a lot of convection, although I have no idea how much. The Pax wants you to compress the load because it needs to get all the contact it can with the oven walls. The FV has a large screen area that can get a lot hotter than the Pax oven, so again it's impossible for me to guess how much difference there is. I wouldn't call the conduction heat transfer in the FV small though. I seen to recall some people reaching combustion pretty easily. ;)
 

Willeh

Well-Known Member
Just got my S2 in the mail today. First impression is a little bad; the ceramic spacer is a bit large and didn't seat flat on my screen, it's slightly up on an angle (though only a bit maybe 2-3 degrees) and now wont come out easily. Hopefully it does not affect performance in S2 mode because it might be hard to put back to s1 without breaking the spacer. I never got my two free screens, even though I mentioned being an FC member in an email and got told I would get them. My Batteries are charging now.

Did anyone else have a ton of metal shavings in the bottom of their battery compartment? Mine had all the metal shavings from machining left in and while Ive been wiping them up there's a lot of flakes deep inside the compartment and when I screw it on the threads make a grinding sound from all the flakes. I tend to get the flakes on my fingers too when changing batteries then have to wash my hands before handling the herbs. I'm planning on blowing some canned air in there when I get some.

Aside from those two details, so far my flashvape experience has been great. I like it better than the mflb or solo. I feel like it's a happy halfway between the two with nice big on demand hits, external cheap batteries, and a very clean air-path. I get no 'woody' flavor like the mflb or robot fart like my original solos had, just sweet vapor. It's fun to watch the vapor flow through the viewing window and it looks like a flashlight at a glance without the stem in it. This is a top notch portable and it is the one I would recommend for herbal on the go vaporization for most people. I'll see what I have to say about the S2 if it works with the spacer on an angle.
 
Willeh,

VAPORIZER22

Well-Known Member
From Vitolo's vid, the spacer has a flat and a recessed side. Not sure if this is causing your problem if it was put in backwards.
 
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