FlashVAPE

[Stu]

Why didn't you remove the S2 spacer? The 3.7V battery without spacer would work a lot faster.

We actually did remove the spacer initially to do this. However in doing so, I noticed that part of the spacer had broken off, and in removing it I managed to break the rest of the spacer in half.

My focus then became "can I get the thing back in again?" We managed to get it back in place at about the same time we remembered that we wanted it out to test the trays. Well, instead of going through the removal process again, I just said "screw it" and we tested it with the S2. It would've most certainly vaped a lot quicker without the spacer.

 

[pakalolo]

We actually did remove the spacer initially to do this. However in doing so, I noticed that part of the spacer had broken off, and in removing it I managed to break the rest of the spacer in half.

My focus then became "can I get the thing back in again?" We managed to get it back in place at about the same time we remembered that we wanted it out to test the trays. Well, instead of going through the removal process again, I just said "screw it" and we tested it with the S2. It would've most certainly vaped a lot quicker without the spacer.

Ouch, broken spacer. I sympathize because although I think the FV is a great vapourizer without it, the S2 spacer is a superb improvement. I feel pretty bad about the whole S2 spacer thing because as I mentioned before, I tested one of the earliest S2 kits. I'm surprised nobody has asked me about my experience yet, but I want to get it out there anyway.

Shortly before Christmas FlashVAPE invited me to test his solution for providing convection vapourizing in the FC, which I happily agreed to do. Once I got my kit I put it through extensive tests. FlashVAPE also sent me different batteries to try. All of this meant that I installed and removed the spacer literally dozens of times. The S2 spacer worked so well that I was urging FlashVAPE to announce it because I knew what an advance it was. During all eight weeks of my testing there was never a sign of failure. Then five days after FlashVAPE announced the S2 kit, I was dumping a load of ABV and pieces of the spacer fell out.

I immediately sent FlashVAPE a picture and we concluded that the weakness was where the spokes joined the spacer rim. Mine was one of the first spacers, and the spacers that FlashVAPE was shipping were reinforced in this area, so our hope was that the problem had already been solved. Unfortunately, we now know that wasn't the case.

It's not clear to me whether the reinforcement of the joins is inadequate, or the shipping packaging doesn't protect well enough, or perhaps the shipped spacers really are too delicate. If people are sending pictures to FlashVAPE, I'm sure he'll figure out what combination of these is at fault, or whether there is another cause entirely.

In the meantime, I'm confident a solution will be found and that FlashVAPE will look after anyone with a broken spacer. I also know that it's possible to use the S2 spacer a lot without breaking it, even if you remove it frequently. I see no need to do that, however. Once it's in place, most people should just leave it alone. It will get dirty but you don't need to clean it.

 

[JoeKickass]

I've only ever heard the "terrible snap sound" when heating and not drawing. I wonder if they break because when you're not drawing and heating the bottom side of the arms is flash heated and the side facing the load is still relatively cold so they bend. I haven't had a problem if I start inhaling slow before powering on

 

[Tweek]

I would imagine brushing out the bowl while still warm could cause the spacer to break as well. Mine was good for quite some time before it broke, and I didn't even touch it...but I figured perhaps just the act of putting down the unit when hot, could have caused cracks as well if I was not gentle enough.

 

[Buildozer]

i actually had a few more shots at the flash vape and the mobius... and they worked good.. haa.. the 2 that got filmed were on a weak battery and werent as good... but on a fresh battery its realy easy... that combustion vid was like my 2nd time trying the fv haa.. i needed more practice haa... cool vape though.. i like it a lot... it was fun messing w/ the trays in it... but ya a full battery for every bowl is the way to go i feel like.... especially through water... you notice from one bowl to the next the power lacking..

I was gonna say, if you guys are in Southern Calif.... I'm a stone's throw away in SD... but then I spotted the white lighter

I'm just kidding, didn't believe in it then either! Good job getting the concentrates going in there! Perhaps FV will take notice?

ha its funny because i almost never have a lighter when i need one.. that white one followed me from my friends house earlier that day haa.. that bho was made from sour og nug and had me waking up stoned ha...

Why didn't you remove the S2 spacer? The 3.7V battery without spacer would work a lot faster.

its funny.... that's what we were thinking of doing at first but then stu noticed his s2 disc was broken in 3 pieces so we decided to put it back together careful and then went about the tray test.. and then realized that we left it in... so we said fuck it... and did it w/ the s2.. just didn't wanna take the broken disc apart again since i just put it back in..
i was being a little rough w/ the FV at first i didn't realize the disc was so delicate..

whats up w/ that FV tray??? haa

 

[Stu]

I snapped a pic of the broken spacer before re-inserting it.

The little piece in the lower right was what had initially broken off. I managed to do the rest of the damage when removing it.

I think it may have broken from tapping the unit to unload abv, but that's just a theory.

 

[kelper]

Does the spacer really make it that much more of a convection device? I need to try it without the spacer but with the 3.7v batteries to see if I can tell much of a difference. Seems like the bowl would have to be further removed from the heat source to make a big difference convection-wise. A much thicker spacer might do it, but even then it would still be largely conduction depending on how hot the side walls get. Just thinking out loud - not sure of the answers to these questions.

Edit: I do think the spacer would help keep it from combusting as easily though by removing the bud from right on top of the heating element - so in that sense it is probably good to use with the 3.7v batteries.

 

[vorrange]

Does the spacer really make it that much more of a convection device? I need to try it without the spacer but with the 3.7v batteries to see if I can tell much of a difference. Seems like the bowl would have to be further removed from the heat source to make a big difference convection-wise. A much thicker spacer might do it, but even then it would still be largely conduction depending on how hot the side walls get. Just thinking out loud - not sure of the answers to these questions.

Edit: I do think the spacer would help keep it from combusting as easily though by removing the bud from right on top of the heating element - so in that sense it is probably good to use with the 3.7v batteries.

Convection is achieved when hot air touches the herb, instead of a hot bowl heating the herb.. so, in theory, the spacer does all the difference when it comes to convection/conduction. If it was further removed, the air would need to be hotter for it to reach the same temps when it passes through the material.

I think that FV should either make a thicker spacer, or a more intricate mesh.. the pattern of the spacer as it is, makes it to prone to bend and that could explain the breakage too. (i don't own a FV so i'm speaking for just the pics i saw.)

 

[OF]

I think that FV should either make a thicker spacer, or a more intricate mesh.. the pattern of the spacer as it is, makes it to prone to bend and that could explain the breakage too. (i don't own a FV so i'm speaking for just the pics i saw.)

A fun topic of conjecture. Mine hasn't broken yet, but it seems like it will probably.

My guess is a ceramics guy will see right away what's the issue. I too think it's bending (or flex) that gets concentrated at the junction in the center or the end of an arm depending. Something as simple as not bringing it all together at one point might make it a lot stronger strange as that sounds. I bet, in the end, it's hexagonal, that is 'honeycomb'.......

I'm sure it will get sorted out, hopefully before mine breaks....it's just too neat not to have as an option.

OF

 

[kelper]

Convection is achieved when hot air touches the herb, instead of a hot bowl heating the herb.. so, in theory, the spacer does all the difference when it comes to convection/conduction. If it was further removed, the air would need to be hotter for it to reach the same temps when it passes through the material.

I think that FV should either make a thicker spacer, or a more intricate mesh.. the pattern of the spacer as it is, makes it to prone to bend and that could explain the breakage too. (i don't own a FV so i'm speaking for just the pics i saw.)

Only the weed at the bottom (and prob the sides somewhat through heat transference) touch the heating element, and even then the screens separate somewhat in the stock config - so just not sure the thin spacer increases the separation significantly especially since most of the herb doesn't touch anyway (especially if half full). There is already some convection even in the stock FV since most herb doesn't touch and air swirls around the bowl.

 

[stickstones]

I disagree with your understanding of the conduction/convection here, kelper. The spacer keeps the herb from directly touching the screen, thus creating convection. The batteries need to be stronger to account for the heat loss between the two screens. Whatever convection someone may heve been getting using this as an S1 was nominal, I'm sure.

 

[Vapzilla]

A fun topic of conjecture. Mine hasn't broken yet, but it seems like it will probably.

I'm sure it will get sorted out, hopefully before mine breaks....it's just too neat not to have as an option.

OF

I've been using mine broken, in four pieces, for almost a week now. Still works like new.
The only problem is between bowls I have to remove the screen and adjust the pieces back into their proper place. I'm sure shaking it up isn't helping it out either. Maybe better off stirring till the replacement arrives? I'll try that and we'll see if it stays put.

 

[Chill Dude]

I snapped a pic of the broken spacer before re-inserting it.

The little piece in the lower right was what had initially broken off. I managed to do the rest of the damage when removing it.

I think it may have broken from tapping the unit to unload abv, but that's just a theory.

That's exactly what I think happened to my spacer. I tapped the loose abv material out of the bowl,mthat's when I noticed the spacer was broken into several pieces. Could it be that the heat itself is a contributing factor to the breakage? Maybe when heated the ceramic spacer becomes brittle and more prone to breakage. Anyway, I think its safe to say that the spacer has to be much thicker and maybe a design tweak in order to have greater longevity. Perhaps the ceramic is not a high enough grade to be durable IDK... I'm sure FV is working hard to solve the problem....

As the FVS2 itself, I have mixed feelings. Kind of a love hate relationship so far. My quick assessment of the pros and cons of the Flashvape S2 are as follows:

Pros:
1)Being convection with a clean vapor path the taste is very good, on par with the Solo IMO.
2)Very efficient, with the Flashvape I've found that I can get very medicated with just a small amount of herb. OTOH, the bowl is very large and can accommodate a huge load if desired.
3) A huge benefit is the 5 second heat up time. For users that want quick sessions the Flashvape is a no brainier. In 2 minutes time I can get very medicated with the Flashvape.
4) overall very solid build.
5) Very reasonable price.

Cons:
1) 3.7 batteries take quite a long time to charge. Could be a problem for heavy users, but not a big deal to me.
2) a little on the big size, hard to be inconspicuous with a Flasvape in your pocket. Again, not a problem for me as I mainly use mine at home.
3) Even with the S2 spacer, I don't find the Flashvape to be all that user friendly. As you all know timing is crucial with the Flashvape. However, I have combusted 3 times, 2 of those instances occurred while only holding the button for 8 to 9 seconds ( 4 to heat up then draw for 4 more seconds with the button pressed). Very touchy to say the least. Maybe mine runs hotter than others IDK.
4) lack of digital temperature control. I know the idea behind the Flashvape is that you can control temperature by draw speed and technique. IMO, easier said than done. I guess I've determined I'm the type of vaporist that likes to know what temperature I'm vaping at without guessing. Margin for error is very small with the FV.
5) the spacer as well as the screens are very fragile, so you must be gentle with them.

All in all, I think the Flashvape is a solid unit with many excellent features. However, as I stated above, it does have its shortcomings. For me, the Flashvape will be my go to vape for quick sessions, due to the excellent heat up time. However, my main vape will continue to be the Solo. I will continue to work on my technique with the Flashvape, but at this point I have found it to be a little too hard to control....

 

[kelper]

I disagree with your understanding of the conduction/convection here, kelper. The spacer keeps the herb from directly touching the screen, thus creating convection. The batteries need to be stronger to account for the heat loss between the two screens. Whatever convection someone may heve been getting using this as an S1 was nominal, I'm sure.

I agree somewhat as far as the herb at the bottom, but if filled half full then even with a stock FV most of it would be cooked by convection anyway it seems. Good debate. Maybe FlashVape will weigh in. Seems to me that the main benefit of the spacer is reduced combustion due to the bottom herb being separated.

 

[stickstones]

I don't think it works that way. Paka has stated that herb is a shitty conductor, so the conduction is limited to the surface area touching the heating surface. This is why we have to continually shake the FV and mflb...to circulate the load for an even cook.

 

[kelper]

I don't think it works that way. Paka has stated that herb is a shitty conductor, so the conduction is limited to the surface area touching the heating surface. This is why we have to continually shake the FV and mflb...to circulate the load for an even cook.

Right - herb is definitely a shitty conductor, but the air passing through the herb would be convection. Shaking the load is a way to even it out because the herb that does touch the bottom cooks faster (or combusts faster sometimes!).

Edit: The spacer may help the thin bottom layer to cook via convection, but I still think the majority of the herb in a half full bowl is cooking via convection anyway.

 

[OF]

Right - herb is definitely a shitty conductor, but the air passing through the herb would be convection. Shaking the load is a way to even it out because the herb that does touch the bottom cooks faster (or combusts faster sometimes!).

Edit: The spacer may help the thin bottom layer to cook via convection, but I still think the majority of the herb in a half full bowl is cooking via convection anyway.

I too don't agree with the idea that the original was a convection vape or even did a significant amount of work that way. The physics is all against the idea.

In order to heat the air hot enough to get material above the screen (heated only by air) to 400F you'd need a surface hotter than 400F to produce that hot air. Herb in contact with a surface over 400F by more than a few degrees is going to overvape immediately and is in real danger of combustion. If it worked as you propose before the bulk of the material would vape, the bottom surface would be burned.

Which is why you need to mix it up. Convection does not require that.

The only way to make it work is to remove the physical contact so the hot surface of the lower screen can exceed 400F without combustion. The second screen and ceramic grid do that, changing the game.

Thermodynamics (heat flows from hot to cold being the prime rule here) won't allow it otherwise.

IMO it was conduction, with the S2 upgrade it's convection.

OF

 

[optiato]

...Which is why you need to mix it up. Convection does not require that...
OF

A bit off-topic I know, but are you saying that with the S2 the screen doesn't get hot enough to char the herb at the bottom and does not need stirring/shaking? (Within reasonable usage, not pushing the limits). I don't have my S2 yet, mine arrived with the outer ring broken (FV took immediate action to replace it!) but should have it in a day or two, so I'm curious. Not having to stir would really improve my already very high satisfaction of this device.

 

[OF]

A bit off-topic I know, but are you saying that with the S2 the screen doesn't get hot enough to char the herb at the bottom and does not need stirring/shaking? (Within reasonable usage, not pushing the limits). I don't have my S2 yet, mine arrived with the outer ring broken (FV took immediate action to replace it!) but should have it in a day or two, so I'm curious. Not having to stir would really improve my already very high satisfaction of this device.

Yes, to varying degrees that's a hallmark feature of convection. Hot air does the work. All that has to happen is uniform airflow through the load (grind size, packing and so on).

For instance, with Herbal Aire (a true convection vape) it's not even necessary to grind your buds, you can put them in intact (green) and they come out intact but brown and vaped.

In practice I find shaking the S2 between every few hits (a quick shake, no big deal) helps prevent it from packing in and having the air flow through in unevenly. I think you'll like the option.

OF

 

[optiato]

OF -
Thanks for the reply! The HA has always interested me for just that reason. Was always curious how well it really worked...

I've been using the FV in conduction mode for the last few days and have really been enjoying it, but I still leave in fear of combustion and as such shake/stir compulsively after every hit and is really only an issue when I can't see the window (which I've mostly remedied by using a short whip and a T1 mouthpiece (I really want a moisturizing MP, wish I knew about them while they were still around)). But the need for shaking and/or stirring means I can't use it all that well at night, so I still use my Solo when I don't want to disturb my SO. This is unfortunately because I really do prefer the FV. Long story short, I'm glad that the need for shaking really is reduced through the use of the convection spacer. I understand the theory, but I'm well aware of the power the FV has and have a hard time accepting that that tiny amount of air space that the spacer creates is making enough difference to prevent conduction.

 

[marduk]

An option that allows you to check your vapor production and ABV color easily through the window without removing the top:

There's a lip on the hole where the stem goes that prevents it from entering the chamber. I used a paper hole puncher to punch out an old screen. The resulting 1/4 inch screen drops into the hole perfectly and is held between the lip and the stem. This allows you to remove the big screen above the bowl that blocks direct view of the herb. I think this might be useful as "training wheels" for people using the FV in conduction mode, since you can see exactly when vapor starts to come off.

 

[OF]

You're welcome.

Remember, conduction stops once a gap bigger than an atom or two opens up. In conduction the vibrations (heat) has to be physically transferred unlike convection where a fluid (air in our case) moves the heat by making contact at each end as it were. In Radiation (the third and last way to spread heat) Infrared Radiation moves the energy through space as photons (light waves). To make this work, however, things have to get hotter generally and the temperature difference is greater than with the other two schemes as we'd use it. Radiation is quite useful where the surfaces are trading heat back and forth like in the Thermovape heat cores.

IMO the HA is a top choice for a desk top unit. Excellent performance, great taste, fits common water pipes directly and it blow bags when you're in that sort of mood. Tough as nails and rock simple to boot. IMO well worth considering if you're in that market.

Best wishes.

OF

 

[ehakim]

IMO the HA is a top choice for a desk top unit. Excellent performance, great taste, fits common water pipes directly and it blow bags when you're in that sort of mood. Tough as nails and rock simple to boot. IMO well worth considering if you're in that market.

Best wishes.

OF

I know this isn't the place to ask, but, in your expert opinion do you prefer the HA to the EQ? (If you've used both)

 

[OF]

I know this isn't the place to ask, but, in your expert opinion do you prefer the HA to the EQ? (If you've used both)

Sorry, never seen or tried the EQ. Needlessly complex IMO, at least against what I need. Not only do I like simple but this way there's less to break down.

I have no reason to think it's not a neat machine, lots of sharp guys swear by them. But IMO the single knob does the job just fine.

OF

 

[FlashVAPE]

I agree somewhat as far as the herb at the bottom, but if filled half full then even with a stock FV most of it would be cooked by convection anyway it seems. Good debate. Maybe FlashVape will weigh in. Seems to me that the main benefit of the spacer is reduced combustion due to the bottom herb being separated.

The main purpose of the S2 spacer, as Pak, Sticks, and others have mentioned, is to elevate the herbs above the heating element for the convection effects to take place. The design of the spacer is the result of extensive testing, to determine the best and most efficient height for the spacer. With the spacer installed and the second tabbed screen raised above the heating element screen, the vapor is drawn out through radiant heat and heated air passing through the material, as opposed to the herbs actually touching the heating surface. Thus, we have a 100% convection device with the S2 setup. Higher power is needed as more heat needs to be produced at the source (heating element screen) in order to carry out the convection vaporization process quickly and effectively, so the S2 uses a high-drain 3.7V cell that is perfectly matched for the desired performance in the FVS2.

We will be re-designing the spacer without the center cross members connecting at the middle, and using a slightly different formulation for the ceramic material, that has a higher tolerance to the rapid heating/cooling that take place inside the FVS2.

On a separate note, the original FV setup also has substantial convection effect, once the heat starts to build after few seconds on power on. Also, for those using the LB method of drawing while power-on, this effect is further amplified as the hot air passes through the herbs above the 2 screens (the tabbed screen also acts as a buffer between the herbs and the heating element screen), which vaporizes the active ingredients.

I should mention that the FV's heating method is not exactly the same as the mostly conduction based design found on the MFLB, although at first glance the two appear to be similar (both using a stainless steel mesh screen as heating element). The FV is a top draw vape, which means that 100% of the air passes through the heating element (and gets heated first) before coming into contact with the materials being vaped, in either the original FV or the FVS2 setup. The MFLB, however, is a bottom draw system, which means that as you draw, the main air path goes through the herbs first, then the heating element, which also acts as a filter screen. This minimizes the convection effects while you are drawing, as opposed to maximizing the same in a top draw system such as the FV.