coolbreeze
Well-Known Member
Where'd you get the WPA? Gorgeous set, btw! : )
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SCAM WARNING! See how this scam works in Classifieds.
The Tempest by Mad Heaters & Phatpiggie
- Thread starter oddjobold
- Start date
Fearless Disaster
Well-Known Member
thanks! both the pipe and wpa are high artisan. I've had the pipe for a while and happened to see a wpa that used some of the same colors on the site. With the tm2 handling portable and the desktop handling home, I thought to play with the more ritualistic, less practical setups and this is the first result
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borbjorbis
Well-Known Member
I had a beta Tempest around this time last year that I sold after just a couple weeks because I developed this really uncomfortable sore throat while using it.
Recently been feeling nostalgic for the thing and thinking of maybe hunting for one. Loved everything about it, but genuinely that sore throat was one of the worst and weirdest I've ever had – it kinda felt like there was a light layer of acid coating my throat. It really sucked feeling like my body just wasn't compatible with such an awesome device.
Curious if anyone else has ever experienced similar adverse effects from the Tempest. Back then I had much fewer vapes in my collection, so I was unable to do many comparative tests to confirm that the Tempest was in fact the problem. I could only really compare it to my DV, and to the memory of a TM2 I sold to get the Tempest.
I'd been using the same super terpy strain on my DV before the Tempest arrived with no issue, and after I stopped using the Tempest the irritation went away pretty quickly. I also remember having the impression that the Tempest vapor felt "wetter" than the DV vapor, and I thought maybe that could have been a part / a symptom of the same problem. But it definitely wasn't hard science.
Recently been feeling nostalgic for the thing and thinking of maybe hunting for one. Loved everything about it, but genuinely that sore throat was one of the worst and weirdest I've ever had – it kinda felt like there was a light layer of acid coating my throat. It really sucked feeling like my body just wasn't compatible with such an awesome device.
Curious if anyone else has ever experienced similar adverse effects from the Tempest. Back then I had much fewer vapes in my collection, so I was unable to do many comparative tests to confirm that the Tempest was in fact the problem. I could only really compare it to my DV, and to the memory of a TM2 I sold to get the Tempest.
I'd been using the same super terpy strain on my DV before the Tempest arrived with no issue, and after I stopped using the Tempest the irritation went away pretty quickly. I also remember having the impression that the Tempest vapor felt "wetter" than the DV vapor, and I thought maybe that could have been a part / a symptom of the same problem. But it definitely wasn't hard science.
Sounds like a Titanium allergy maybe. Do you have any other Ti devices you can try?
borbjorbis
Well-Known Member
I'd been using a Ti tip Dynavap on a Ti MVS for years prior to the Tempest, and continue to use it today. I use a Ti Convector sometimes, and I fire up my Woodscents pretty regularly, which has a Ti heater. I also use an Evolv Cricket sometimes which I believe has a Ti bucket.
I know the Tempest titanium is Grade 5 and therefore has some aluminum mixed in, but I also used a Crafty+ for years with those aluminum dosing caps, so I'm not sure that any of the materials are the problem. But it's always possible!
It all happened really quickly with the Tempest, I developed the irritation within days. Wish I'd held onto it longer to confirm that it was the problem but I got pretty freaked out at the time (and I was also a naive, relatively inexperienced hobbyist who shipped things off way too quickly if it didn't feel like a Goldilocks device, ostensibly to stave off VAS lol).
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That's a strange one. I find the Tempest to be as smooth as you want it to be, since there is such a controllable range of cooling and airflow. You can set the device up to have more cooling that required if you like. Most users do not use the maximum cooling on it, and instead dial down depending on bowl size and personnel taste.
Did you find the vapour harsh/hot? Do you know if you were using the Direct Flow Tube? Do you recall any of your stem settings, or tip airflow setting?
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
What an apt term!
So you never experienced this before with any previous vape you've used? A couple of weeks doesn't sound like very long, particularly if you've not had experience with ball-vape style devices which take some getting used to and beyond the most basic principles have quite different aspects and approaches to a DV (you may be a genius at sussing out new devices, don't this as a personal criticism) so maybe you'd not found the method that works well for you.
The most obvious things to me would be over heating or under heating of the weed so one question would be whether you tried working through the temperature range to see if it made any difference. I'd be really surprised if it behaved the same at low temp hits as it would for high temp one's.
Also, you seemed to imply the irritation didn't immediately disappear with another vape, but it's unclear what's it's nature was (i.e. was it only while vaping and just after, or did it persist for much longer, maybe even hours?).
It's not impossible that it also had something to do with the strain's profile and the adverse effects occurred more with the Tempest due to it's higher power - the temperature has a more complex effect than simply 'distilling' off the various terpene's and cannabinoids that boil at or near that temperature, and higher temps can even cause some terpene's to break up and reform into other compounds not otherwise present (i.e. I'm suggesting it's not impossible that the higher powered Tempest was creating a vapour containing something (or some mixture of things) your bronchial's find especially irritating (some people are extremely sensitive to certain terpenoids that others are not).
If this re-occurs I'd suggest trying changing one of the conditions while keeping everything else the same to see if you can find a common factor that effects this - e.g. the easiest to start with is probably trying the temperature range from one end of the range to the other. If you see no difference between the coolest hit and the hottest, then leave the temp at the same level and try varying another factor, such as quantity, or method of use (MTL, DTL, etc.) which can have a big impact on the Tempests behaviour, etc.
But try to only stick at changing one thing at a time, and then noting how the end result changes.
borbjorbis
Well-Known Member
No, I hadn't experienced anything like it before, and I haven't experienced anything like it since. Buying the Tempest and selling it prematurely was sort of like the breaking point of my interest in vapes turning into full on VAS, and I've since tried countless other vapes. While I do think I get a feel for devices pretty quickly, I definitely regret not experimenting more with the Tempest at the time.
I was low-temping it, possibly even exceptionally so. Never have been keen on OHE and I mainly wanted flavor, and I do recall setting the Wand temperature (timer) lower than recommended at times. Also, the main strain I had at the time was exceptionally terpy – I suspect it may have even been artificially terpy, I got it off the grey market and there was a lot of talk about sprayed bud at the time. But I didn't run into irritation while using the strain in my DV or Crafty, and after a couple days not using the Tempest (I don't remember if I vaped with other devices or if I stopped vaping altogether) it went away.
Looking back on it now, I do remember being quite neurotic about finding the perfect setting to set and forget, like to the point that I felt physical pressure and anxiety in my body. In my naiveté, I was really obsessed with the idea of a perfect Goldilocks vape at the time, and that compulsion definitely extended to the Tempest settings. I was constantly taking dry pulls on it while changing back and forth between different airflow settings / stem configurations. Maybe I just did that so much that it dried out my throat – that actually seems to me a plausible explanation.
I appreciate both of you for your thoughtful responses! Since the Tempest was in beta at the time, not too many people had the device and as a result it wasn't that surprising to me that no one else reported a similar issue. But now that it's been out in full release for sometime now and the sample size is much larger, the fact that no one else seems to have run into the same problem definitely makes me keen on giving it another shot.
If you were doing really low temp hits, that can be aggravating to lungs. As the terps are kept completely intact. Terps can be really irritating. I found it depends on the strain.
The only time I developed a persistent cough was from valing a certain strain in a TM2 on very low temps for a while.
I find that I have the opposite affect with dv vs tempest.
I eventually found DV to be “harsh” isn’t the right word but I can’t help but cough a lung out anytime I use a DV. Now granted I almost exclusively used SS as I could never dial in a good roast with their TI tips. The hydrovong tho as an oldie was simple with no mental lining but love that stem.
The “wetter” comment I can understand as I also have that feeling with the first hit but for me it’s very flavorful and smooth.
As a daily anvil and tempest user. Unless I’m including the Dv in with the after work rotation (I call it the holy Trinity anvil + tempest + DV) I actually reach for my lowly v max3 (kinda regret buying but it comes in handy when I don’t necessarily want to get stoned before I jump into the car and want something to puff on while I drive mostly for longer trips) for when I want a prolonged session in bed while I watch tv and fall asleep.
Dustin McKief
Well-Known Member
I think everyone is different when it comes to vapor. If you have a reaction, you must experiment to figure out the cause.
Even though I do enjoy the flavor of convective vapor, I find that it is more irritating to my throat. In my case, I think it's due to the longer inhale and drier air vs conductive vapor options. Conduction heavy vapes like the Dynavap do not cause the same level of irritation for me. I have adapted my technique with the Tempest to insert it deeper into the Wand and/or use a medium width flame to increase conduction. Still, I can't do as many daily Tempest puffs vs. Dynavap puffs before I feel irritation.
Another major throat irritation factor for me that applies to any vape is flower debris. If I don't use the screen or some kind of intercooler, no matter how coarsely I grind, small bits of flower and fine kief particles get deposited on the back of my throat. I have read that many don't use the debris screen in the Tempest, but I use it every time. It's very easy to spot clean after a few uses with a q-tip, or you can switch it out for the extra clean one and throw the dirty one in your solvent, etc.
Even though I do enjoy the flavor of convective vapor, I find that it is more irritating to my throat. In my case, I think it's due to the longer inhale and drier air vs conductive vapor options. Conduction heavy vapes like the Dynavap do not cause the same level of irritation for me. I have adapted my technique with the Tempest to insert it deeper into the Wand and/or use a medium width flame to increase conduction. Still, I can't do as many daily Tempest puffs vs. Dynavap puffs before I feel irritation.
Another major throat irritation factor for me that applies to any vape is flower debris. If I don't use the screen or some kind of intercooler, no matter how coarsely I grind, small bits of flower and fine kief particles get deposited on the back of my throat. I have read that many don't use the debris screen in the Tempest, but I use it every time. It's very easy to spot clean after a few uses with a q-tip, or you can switch it out for the extra clean one and throw the dirty one in your solvent, etc.
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
It seems, from an unscientific view (i.e. I've not read anything definitive), the terpene's with the lower boiling points are more likely to be an irritant for those people who are more sensitive to this. The strains that tend to having higher levels of these terpene's are those generally known as 'terpy' and often are those known for being more uplifting (all generalisations of course) and are often best enjoyed by many at lower temperatures in the vape. Unfortunately this accentuates the presence of those terpene's in the vapour's profile verses the heavier higher boiling point terpene's.
But running the vape at lower temperatures with these 'terpy' strains also helps preserve those lighter terpene's from heat degradation, and this is something the Tempest excels at, giving it very good flavours, but may well promote this problem if you come across a terpene that you're particularly sensitive to. I would expect the TM2 and DV to be less prone to this because you tend to have to run them hotter to get a good extraction without having to reheat. Maybe practice running the line and getting close to combustion so as to degrade the lighter terp's as much as possible to see if it makes any difference? Or just avoid using the Tempest with those strains if push comes to shove, as the 'pest is a fine bit of kit.
BTW, the above is my belief based on known behaviour (there has been research published on studies of high temperatures on cannabinoids and terpene's in cannabis and how some of them break down into other substances). This may have nothing to do with your problem, or it may only be a part of the problem, I couldn't say, but maybe try higher temps and see if that helps?
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Because of a recent discussion: How many people do you think miss that the open airflow setting with the direct tube leads to the bypass setting if you use the helix tube/ the bypass setting with the direct tube leads to the open setting with the direct tube?
I think many people will have a problem wrapping their head around that.
I think many people will have a problem wrapping their head around that.
I've read this 5 times and I still gave no idea what you just said
I had given up after three times, your post motivated me to take a few more shots at it.
I have NO IDEA what everybody might be missing.
With the direct tube, this setting leads to the bypass vapor path. With the helix tube this exact same setting is the open vapor path though.
My guess is that people assume one symbol is for it being the open vapor path, and the other symbol is for it being the bypass vapor path. But in reality, the same setting leads to the opposite vapor path when you switch out the direct tubes
I get it, it is quite clear on the manual, Direct Bypass airflow is quite different to the Helix Bypass airflow description. I did read that ages ago and had quite forgotten, cheers!
This took me a while to wrap my head around then I looked at the airflow diagrams. The tube names are confusing
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
If the manual on MH's website for the Tempest isn't clear enough, the manual page for the Revolve shows it even clearer.
.d
Wubba Lubba dub-dub
Direct bypass tempest - best tempest
direct open revolve - best revolve
edited after finding out that direct bypass tempest is direct open revolve
(DIRECT) OPEN
Fresh air is drawn around the Helix to cool the Sleeve and the Cooling Unit
before mixing with the vapor which then travels through the center.
DIRECT BYPASS Fresh air is drawn through the air hole (1) and routed around the helix (3), where it mixes with the vapor. The combined mixture then proceeds through the center (2) of the device and the mouthpiece (4).
direct open revolve - best revolve
edited after finding out that direct bypass tempest is direct open revolve
(DIRECT) OPEN
Fresh air is drawn around the Helix to cool the Sleeve and the Cooling Unit
before mixing with the vapor which then travels through the center.
DIRECT BYPASS Fresh air is drawn through the air hole (1) and routed around the helix (3), where it mixes with the vapor. The combined mixture then proceeds through the center (2) of the device and the mouthpiece (4).
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These are actually doing the exact opposite.
In the manual for the revolve "bypass" and "open" refer to the vapor path. "Bypass" always means that the fresh air takes a direct path to your mouth, "bypassing" the condenser or helix.
In the tempest manual online, "bypass" and "open" refer to the indicator though.
That is why the same vapor path is called direct bypass in the tempest manual, but is called direct open in the revolve manual.
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
Jeez, I shouldn't have had that wake n' bake - but I think you may well be right! The two tubes appear to work differently between the Tempest and Revolve. I tend to run my Tempest and Revolve with closed air intake and never noticed any difference unsurprisingly (though I run a TA on the Revolve).
Could be interesting to hear what @Brenyo says in explanation?
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All you really have to remember is that the vapor goes around the outside of the helix with the DRC / Helix tube and it goes down the center with the Direct Tube.
*Edited to remove misleading info*
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Nope. That is exactly the point. What you say is what bypass mode refers to in the revolve gen 2 manual. But in the tempest manual it does not. Here is what they call the bypass mode in the tempest manual
"DIRECT BYPASS Fresh air is drawn through the air hole (1) and routed around the helix (3), where it mixes with the vapor. The combined mixture then proceeds through the center (2) of the device and the mouthpiece (4)."
As a comparison the description for the open direct mode
"DIRECT OPEN The air intake at the air hole (1) is directed towards the mouthpiece (4), providing a refreshing burst of fresh air. Meanwhile, the vapor follows the central pathway (2) and combines with the air at the air hole (1)."
Oh no, they work exactly the same. It's about naming. In the revolve gen 2 manual the terms *bypass" and "open" refer to the vapor path. In the tempest manual the terms "bypass" and "open", do not refer to the vapor path but to the indicator positioning near the mouthpiece.
If the indents are '==' in the closed then logically '-=' should mean the airflow from the carb goes in the direction of the '-'
But that's not the case for both tubes?