The Tempest by Mad Heaters & Phatpiggie

[Corvoed]

I'm one of those people you replied to then deleted your post.

????? You sure about that ?????? Interesting accusation

No disrespect, but you should keep better tabs on who you're talking to, because I don't think I've ever had any interaction with you in my life. Both on here or on Reddit. I rarely write comments on reddit in general these days.

 

[General Disaster]

@General Disaster thank you for the info! I know if I use too much temp i get a super flavorful benzenes! (No ). The most you get closed to the pyrolysis, the most shit you inhale. Anyway I still notice the difference of flavor when I use hash+cotton even at lower temps, and I try to avoid use too much temp.
Actually the most of the time I prefer to get 2/3 heat ups from a hash bowl.

I may have slightly over played the health risks. Where I would have more concern is with dabbing where silly temperatures can be applied.
I read an interesting paper on nih where the researchers set up a dab rig with carefully controlled temperatures, feeding into a gas liquid chromatograph to separate out the various compounds condensed from the vapour. These were then individually analysed to identify the compounds. Running at something like 800℉ (can't remember exactly) benzene was the most common product that wasn't an original terpenoid (fyi: cannabinoids are a class of terpene, so are included in the term terpenoid). Numerous other organic compounds were also created, some identified as also known to be bad for health. But with weed, compared to smoking, it's unlikely to ever be nearly as harmful as that.
Essentially you're right about pyrolysis, although technically speaking (correct me if I'm wrong) that occurs in an inert atmosphere such as nitrogen or a noble gas. Combustion involves oxidation into different compounds, but the effect here, I believe, is much more down to having enough energy in the form of heat to break the intra-molecular bonds that hold the molecule together.

 

[electrokho82]

Sharing the session video from my Tempest review. I don't understand why some people are complaining about the Tempest; the vaporizer is excellent, and like any device, it has a learning curve. It took me a couple of days of practice to understand it and achieve these results:

https://imgur.com/a/ISoBYUM

 

[Octavia]

I know it's reddit, and I'm letting myself get worked up...but why is vaporents pretty negative on the tempest? I keep seeing people trash on it and saying weird stuff like the anvil has better flavor, or that the tempest is just an overpriced dynavap, or that you'll get the same thing but cheaper with the dani. Just today I saw a post that said "Tempest sucks change my mind", and there were people actually agreeing in the comments, some calling it a finicky and frustrating device (and of course, it's never their "technique" that's the problem).

Am I misunderstanding, or is this not the easiest dyna-form factor styled device out there by far, with amazing flavor and potency to boot? I'd go as far as to call it a brain-dead device if you're using the wand. Even if I were to take out the VI/Disks, I feel all I'd have to do is just plop it in the wand and let it time out at my preferred temp.

Legit been soaring since day 1 with no issues on torch or IH. I thought vaporents liked good vapes, so what is all this negativity about? I've had nothing but love for my dynas, my old anvil, and my brother's fusion... But Tempest has it's own thing going for it

I agree with both sides here, the tempest for me is now super easy and consistent, but took several failures before I figured out how to avoid scorching/combusting, especially at the first draw. Compared to my dynavaps (my only comparable device), the tempest has so much more power that even small changes that would make a dynavap slightly toasty will burn some/all of the tempest bowl. I very much enjoy how many variables there are to play with in my tempest, but I probably would hesitate to share with friends since there are so many ways it can go wrong.

Also don’t forget that some folks here received a tempest with burrs in the stem/vi housing which caused them to not work properly, and others broke their spring while trying to fix that issue. I probably would have been frustrated if I got a device where the indicators didn’t work (my click discs took like 10-20 sessions to start clicking for instance), then due to either poor technique or a bad wand seating I burnt every load. It’s currently my favourite device, especially for concentrate, but it definitely needs a lot more dialling in to get right than most of my other devices.

@Corvoed …it’s reddit maybe the hating posts get more attention but if you search “tempest” you will find a lot of love too

Think you hit it dead on here, this forum tries (emphasis on tries, sometimes things spiral quickly) to prevent the negativity circle jerk that thrives on (and arguably drives) Reddit and most other socials.

 

[shadymilkman]

Probably be positive to adjust for having a first run, bespoke device.. with a long learning curve. It's not a storz n bickell where you set a temp and go. It's an mini analog ball vape..

 

[jbm]

Think you hit it dead on here, this forum tries (emphasis on tries, sometimes things spiral quickly) to prevent the negativity circle jerk that thrives on (and arguably drives) Reddit and most other socials.

I find both useful, they have complementary strengths and weaknesses.

 

[imor jones]

I may have slightly over played the health risks. Where I would have more concern is with dabbing where silly temperatures can be applied.
I read an interesting paper on nih where the researchers set up a dab rig with carefully controlled temperatures, feeding into a gas liquid chromatograph to separate out the various compounds condensed from the vapour. These were then individually analysed to identify the compounds. Running at something like 800℉ (can't remember exactly) benzene was the most common product that wasn't an original terpenoid (fyi: cannabinoids are a class of terpene, so are included in the term terpenoid). Numerous other organic compounds were also created, some identified as also known to be bad for health. But with weed, compared to smoking, it's unlikely to ever be nearly as harmful as that.
Essentially you're right about pyrolysis, although technically speaking (correct me if I'm wrong) that occurs in an inert atmosphere such as nitrogen or a noble gas. Combustion involves oxidation into different compounds, but the effect here, I believe, is much more down to having enough energy in the form of heat to break the intra-molecular bonds that hold the molecule together.

Interesting with the paper about the compounds, that arise while dabbing. Do you maybe could provide a link to that paper?
Thank you

 

[Musikchen]

is this not the easiest dyna-form factor styled device out there by far

I see lots of people who never even used a dynavap, buy the tempest.
People who bought it as their first ever vape and dont even read the instructions.
I can understand some frustration from them expecting the machine does everything perfect for em like their battery vape.
You have to be into the manual drive vapes somewhat.

 

[cybrguy]

I truly love my Tempests, but I would not recommend them as a first vape for any one unless they understood that there will be a learning period and were willing to deal with it. And there's a much better chance of success if you can be physically in the same room with them while they are learning. Even Vapcaps took a little bit of learning to avoid combustion.
I think it's fairly safe to say that it's really only the electrics that automatically work for nearly everyone right away. But even they take some time to learn to use them well in most cases. I am nearly a year into using the Tempest and it remains one of the three vapes I use the most. And you have to go to the 4th vape to get to another flame fired vape, which for me is the Lotus.

 

[Octavia]

I see lots of people who never even used a dynavap, buy the tempest.
People who bought it as their first ever vape and dont even read the instructions.
I can understand some frustration from them expecting the machine does everything perfect for em like their battery vape.
You have to be into the manual drive vapes somewhat.

Yeah, the pre release hype wave really didn’t do this device any favours. Once you dial it in it’s effortless, but there’s very little safety margin so even slight variations can cause combustion. Never used another ball vape but sounds like it’s a similar balancing act where you really need to be mindful of how much heat you have at your disposal and releasing too much heat at once can be disastrous.

 

[coolbreeze]

I see lots of people who never even used a dynavap, buy the tempest.
People who bought it as their first ever vape and dont even read the instructions.
I can understand some frustration from them expecting the machine does everything perfect for em like their battery vape.
You have to be into the manual drive vapes somewhat.

I think you're right. The skills are transferable and once you learn the indicators (mine seem perfect) the Tempest is dead easy to use. I've found it reasonably forgiving, etc. If you are not a regular torcher, I can see why it would be more frustrating to have to search out and find the specifics of how it works with whatever IH you have, etc.

 

[cybrguy]

I have no problem saying that once you get it down, the Tempest is one of the best vapes on the market. I think if people are willing to give themselves a little while to get comfortable with it, they will love it. I am quite certain that long before the next wave of Tempest are available the extremely positive views of the product will dramatically overwhelm the criticism.

 

[Shorner]

Yeah, the pre release hype wave really didn’t do this device any favours.

I think a lot of us who had pre release versions were experienced users of similar devices so took to it like a duck to water i know i did...it has got a bit of a learning curve though.

 

[ZC]

One thing that I think would help new users, would be to include a spacing jig for the wand adapter. Myself and others here have put the jig too deep and had issues, it is hard to tell exact position from the pictures alone.

But since there is already a 3d printed wand stand included, including a little printed depth setting jig would eliminate that variable at least.

 

[coolbreeze]

One thing that I think would help new users, would be to include a spacing jig for the wand adapter. Myself and others here have put the jig too deep and had issues, it is hard to tell exact position from the pictures alone.

But since there is already a 3d printed wand stand included, including a little printed depth setting jig would eliminate that variable at least.

And to take it one step further, a list of suggested timings/voltages with various leading IHs would really help. Big ask but would certainly smooth the release of inductables.

 

[cybrguy]

And to take it one step further, a list of suggested timings/voltages with various leading IHs would really help. Big ask but would certainly smooth the release of inductables.

As long as people see them as estimates and not hard and fast numbers.

 

[General Disaster]

Interesting with the paper about the compounds, that arise while dabbing. Do you maybe could provide a link to that paper?
Thank you

Just done a quick google and this one comes up top, I'm fairly sure it's the same one though it was a while ago I read it, but a quick scan looks familiar.

Toxicant Formation in Dabbing: The Terpene Story

Inhalable, noncombustible cannabis products are playing a central role in the expansion of the medical and recreational use of cannabis. In particular, the practice of “dabbing” with butane hash oil has emerged with great popularity in ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It's actually a surprisingly readable paper and pretty interesting generally, though a bit older than I recalled.

Yeah I mostly do this method with my ruby twist with micro dose bowl which it's perfect for but it does work well in the tempest or any analogue but I find the bowl size of the dynavap makes it tricky.

I've only just recently changed my ball config and that's completely changed how I'm using my tempest, so because I don't currently have any hash I can't say how good this method is now I'm getting the best (so far) from the tempest. But I was getting good results before so should be much better now. With bud I'm now finishing the bowl in 1 heat cycle which is what I imagined I wanted from the tempest before I got it. So if I get that same result with hash next month when I restock I'll update here.

The way I'm thinking about the stirring step is it allows you to vape as much of the bowl as possible on the 1st big lung full, kinda similar to the difference between a diffuser finishing a bowl in 1 compared to stirring an injector for a 2nd or 3rd


You can see what I'm talking about quite clearly in this video. Sorry for posting a non tempest video here but it's just to show what I'm talking about

That seemed like a lot of trouble to go through (though I am a lazy b'stard, it must be said!). I found putting a small bed of vaping cotton/rayon at the bottom of the bowl, then heating the hash on a pin/knife until it's hot enough to crumble finely, or if too oily or otherwise won't crumble well with modest heat, then breaking it up with finger nails, or scraping with a knife blade when cold and hard, whatever, as long as it's nice and small particles. Then I just gentle hoover it up with the straw method, I tamp it ever so slightly and only with a finger tip, not a hard tamper, so it's still very loose, but not spilling out the bowl.

Then heat the 'pest up to near combustion levels (for weed, that is) and hack away at it. Usually cleans almost everything out of it with a few tokes, rarely even need to reheat it. AVH always comes out as dry and turns to dust between fingers. Little or nothing left in it.
Also, less is more sometimes, putting too much in blocks the airflow and makes it harder to extract the volatiles.

The three factors I hit on, were how fine it's broken up, how loosely it's packed in the bowl, and how much heat is applied.
Done this with 'pollen' types (leb etc), and some indian charas (that worked really well, crumbles very fine with little heating), the only one I had a little trouble with was some top grade cream from Goa, which was so oily and solid it wouldn't crumble so had to be pulled into small bits which is a little tedious and in the end didn't vape as well despite being stronger. The softer hashes would crumble finer if left to cool and harden after an initial crumble.

 

[I_like_logs]

One thing that I think would help new users, would be to include a spacing jig for the wand adapter. Myself and others here have put the jig too deep and had issues, it is hard to tell exact position from the pictures alone.

But since there is already a 3d printed wand stand included, including a little printed depth setting jig would eliminate that variable at least.

Don’t even need a spacing jig, just a mark on the silicone insert for a suggested starting position would help. With instructions on what to expect if adjust it down or up a mm or two.

 

[kokolokokolokon]

Essentially you're right about pyrolysis, although technically speaking (correct me if I'm wrong) that occurs in an inert atmosphere such as nitrogen or a noble gas. Combustion involves oxidation into different compounds, but the effect here, I believe, is much more down to having enough energy in the form of heat to break the intra-molecular bonds that hold the molecule together.

Yeah it would be the oxygen absence (I think). I think the main point is: it is not good

I didnt read the whole article you shared but, at least what I did read it talk about bho and old dabbing methods (?). It compares it with the dab pens too but I dont know the exact kind of pens.
(maybe this is a little offtopic )

@larfy

Not the best shot (unnecessary slow motion ). I did it with cbd since i had to do more things

 

[larfy]

Just done a quick google and this one comes up top, I'm fairly sure it's the same one though it was a while ago I read it, but a quick scan looks familiar.

Toxicant Formation in Dabbing: The Terpene Story

Inhalable, noncombustible cannabis products are playing a central role in the expansion of the medical and recreational use of cannabis. In particular, the practice of “dabbing” with butane hash oil has emerged with great popularity in ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It's actually a surprisingly readable paper and pretty interesting generally, though a bit older than I recalled.

That seemed like a lot of trouble to go through (though I am a lazy b'stard, it must be said!). I found putting a small bed of vaping cotton/rayon at the bottom of the bowl, then heating the hash on a pin/knife until it's hot enough to crumble finely, or if too oily or otherwise won't crumble well with modest heat, then breaking it up with finger nails, or scraping with a knife blade when cold and hard, whatever, as long as it's nice and small particles. Then I just gentle hoover it up with the straw method, I tamp it ever so slightly and only with a finger tip, not a hard tamper, so it's still very loose, but not spilling out the bowl.

Then heat the 'pest up to near combustion levels (for weed, that is) and hack away at it. Usually cleans almost everything out of it with a few tokes, rarely even need to reheat it. AVH always comes out as dry and turns to dust between fingers. Little or nothing left in it.
Also, less is more sometimes, putting too much in blocks the airflow and makes it harder to extract the volatiles.

The three factors I hit on, were how fine it's broken up, how loosely it's packed in the bowl, and how much heat is applied.
Done this with 'pollen' types (leb etc), and some indian charas (that worked really well, crumbles very fine with little heating), the only one I had a little trouble with was some top grade cream from Goa, which was so oily and solid it wouldn't crumble so had to be pulled into small bits which is a little tedious and in the end didn't vape as well despite being stronger. The softer hashes would crumble finer if left to cool and harden after an initial crumble.

I love a bit of Indian charas but it's been so long since I've seen it. In my mind the flavour stands up to any of the good modern hash I've had. But maybe I remember it tasting so good compared to anything I'd had at the time and now things are different.

Tbh I think I consider crumbling and transferring the hash to the bowl to be to much trouble for me, each to then own way I guess but your right about break the hash up as much as possible. Personally I'm not keen on using vaping cotton because the temp it combusts is a bit too close to the temps we're using especially at the high end of the range. Actually I'm not even sure what the temp it, I thought it was 240°C but Google just told me its 215. Either way far too close for me.

With any luck a hash bowl will be made for us. Maybe something like a steel dosing cap that's perforated all over and has a stack of perforated disks inside, maybe even with a perforated lid.

The way I do it for hash like this is heat it in the bowl until it's hot enough to break up with a stir tool, I spend a bit of time twirling my stir tool around the bowl until it's all broken up (this is a bit like the tempest easy once you've learnt how). The stirring actually helps stop the restricted airflow problem somewhat but even if you can 100% break up the hash what you will be left with is a fine powder far finer than the finest erb grinders can do so that's going to affect airflow. I find if I load too much hash into the bowl it just goes on vaping forever and for some reason that makes the vapor harsher for me so I agree small bowls is best for hash.

When I'm vaping traditional hash with my ruby twist I actually run it about 20f cooler than I do with flower. I still get performance good enough to extract to dry dust but it's a little less harsh for me. With the tempest I haven't tried hash like this yet but with the fusion I was running it pretty much identical as I did for flower.

Yeah it would be the oxygen absence (I think). I think the main point is: it is not good

I didnt read the whole article you shared but, at least what I did read it talk about bho and old dabbing methods (?). It compares it with the dab pens too but I dont know the exact kind of pens.
(maybe this is a little offtopic )

@larfy

Not the best shot (unnecessary slow motion ). I did it with cbd since i had to do more things

Very nice that definitely works well. So what did you put in before the hash I guess it must be cotton or something similar? I'm on my phone and couldn't really see it clearly.

 

[kokolokokolokon]

Very nice that definitely works well. So what did you put in before the hash I guess it must be cotton or something similar? I'm on my phone and couldn't really see it clearly.

A thin strip of cotton. But it is the same with a single adapted screen

 

[Cannabiker]

I like to take bubble hash, roll it out flat, and place it on top of the load. I leave enough space around the edges of the flattened disc for air flow, and I use a heating profile which would normally scorch the top of the load. I also leave enough head space above the hash to avoid contact with the ball screen, and I keep the Tempest vertical through the whole process.

For proof of concept, this is the same technique with a larger ball vape. Volume low; sound is harsh. Sorry if you've seen it before; I have posted it in other contexts:

https://flic.kr/p/2nicAGS

 

[oddjobold]

Let me tell you where i am with the Tempest.

The beta was my first portable ball vape, and the performance was unique. It got some use. I was using a torch while waiting for the Flare to release.

Then the Stunner came along, and this just kinda worked better for me. Easier to use, better performance, cooler. TA3 the same. Maybe i needed a IH to get the best from the Tempest?

My Flare arrived, as we all know that does not work great with the Tempest. Maybe i need a wand? Then i got the 5DT, that does not work with the Flare either, so i bit the bullet and brought a wand. Still i prefer my Fusion, Stunner and TA3.

Maybe its because i still got beta? Well i am now fully upgraded. I pretty much feel the same.

But i am hearing the reviews, i am hearing the hype, and because of this i am giving the Tempest the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps i dont have my technique right? Perhaps one of the many setting is not quite correct? Perhaps the moons and planets are not aligned and i am not getting a good hit. Maybe its just me.

Any useful tips on this thread are not easy to catch. There are too many posts here for me to have time to read all, and to be honest a lot of rubbish to wade through. Anyone got any golden nuggets for me?

I really want to love this vape as much as some of you. Customer service has been amazing. The manuals and videos on the website are at a level of detail i have never seen before. The reload is a stroke of genius. Its a UK vape! From my own country. There is so much to like here. I really want this vape to be the best portable ball vape out there (because for this price point thats where it should sit).

So because of this, i resist giving my final review. I resist pinning my colours to the flag. Now i have the optimal IH, the upgraded unit and i think i need to spend some quality time and get to know the tempest.

At the moment i have plenty of patience, but its not limitless.

 

[kokolokokolokon]

just my experience.

I dont see problems on use it without IH. Maybe Im just lucky (2 times because i have 2 tempest) but i didnt find any problem with my units. The beta worked very well for me since minute 0…with wand and with the torch (Except hte clicks of course). I knew it doesnt work on the yllih cause the limitation it has. And i don ´t like to use giant torches (I saw a lot of friends with the stunner or DIY ballvapes with this kind of torches), i use triple/dual flame if I want more power (And i see friends using a cooking torch without problems too). Maybe this is a big factor in my experience with the tempest, i used the same little triple torch with the fusion.
I have the flare too, and inmediately I realize it has a limitation as the yllih. So I removed pieces to see what happen. If you quit the calibration module you get up to 90W. But, even with that, the wattage can be different depending on how you insert the device...but you can use it like that, its fine and you dont heat the calibration module (on the other hand, 70W is a big meh).

Another big pro for me is the calibration and the balance between the amount of material and design. It doesnt take ages to heat up without giant torch and it cools down faster too. In other devices i see a lot of mass and balls for a normal amount of material or big amounts (which i dont like in this kind of devices). And i can ride fast unregulated devices…but long heating unregulated devices…nope I can´t stay counting 40 seconds (because i dont like giant flames) without paying attention to other things im doing or i like… (i mean, i can, i can get good results, but for me, it is a pain in the ass). Or use that devices on IH with long af heat ups and overheat the IH.

It can be improved, but right now i see a big different between the tempest and other portable ball vapes.
And i find the manual very clear and informative, I wish i had something like that with others vapes when i started vaping instead searching for tips on reddit…

But this is just my experience. A field of roses i guess

 

[Minsc_NBoo]

Let me tell you where i am with the Tempest.

The beta was my first portable ball vape, and the performance was unique. It got some use. I was using a torch while waiting for the Flare to release.

Then the Stunner came along, and this just kinda worked better for me. Easier to use, better performance, cooler. TA3 the same. Maybe i needed a IH to get the best from the Tempest?

My Flare arrived, as we all know that does not work great with the Tempest. Maybe i need a wand? Then i got the 5DT, that does not work with the Flare either, so i bit the bullet and brought a wand. Still i prefer my Fusion, Stunner and TA3.

Maybe its because i still got beta? Well i am now fully upgraded. I pretty much feel the same.

But i am hearing the reviews, i am hearing the hype, and because of this i am giving the Tempest the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps i dont have my technique right? Perhaps one of the many setting is not quite correct? Perhaps the moons and planets are not aligned and i am not getting a good hit. Maybe its just me.

Any useful tips on this thread are not easy to catch. There are too many posts here for me to have time to read all, and to be honest a lot of rubbish to wade through. Anyone got any golden nuggets for me?

I really want to love this vape as much as some of you. Customer service has been amazing. The manuals and videos on the website are at a level of detail i have never seen before. The reload is a stroke of genius. Its a UK vape! From my own country. There is so much to like here. I really want this vape to be the best portable ball vape out there (because for this price point thats where it should sit).

So because of this, i resist giving my final review. I resist pinning my colours to the flag. Now i have the optimal IH, the upgraded unit and i think i need to spend some quality time and get to know the tempest.

At the moment i have plenty of patience, but its not limitless.

Are you using a wand now? If so try setting the airflow on the cap open, and stem on closed setting

I'm now using the wand at 320c, on auto mode, waiting till it times out.

With the standard zirc balls it rakes a few seconds to ramp up. Gently give a few little mouth to lung draws. I like to DTL pull once I feel vapour. Fluttering the airport on the stem, and leave it fully open at times if the vapour feels too hot

I think breath control / draw speed is key to getting big clouds. Play around a bit. Fully open air port, bypass, mouth to lung draws

I ran mine on a bong last night. It fully extracts in 2 cycles with really big clouds
If you do try a bong fully close the stem and leave the airflow on the head open a tiny crack