Discontinued The Grasshopper

[moondog]

I may have another one to add for the resources, but it's so straightforward it may not be needed.

The other day, my gh started getting the flickering blue lights again. I thought it may be due to buildup on the battery or contact. But what I found was that the backend was not sufficiently tightened. I gave it the extra twist and the flickering stopped. I never even checked the battery or contact for buildup.

I would add it just so that the record shows every fix that has been successful. But that's easy for me to say since I'm not the one doing the work.

 

[JoeMama]

Very interesting all around.

I'm not overly worried about the small amount of air coming through the backend. I have marked my batteries with sharpies and plan on using the DeoxIT Gold and possibly D-Series as well. It's just that the thought had occurred to me that there was some level of risk.

I think D-Series is fine for occasional use. The original tip in the Fixes resource is for daily use of Gold. I think daily is overkill for Gold, but probably fine. I wouldn't want to use the D-Series daily, it just seems a little harsh.

I will probably get some D-Series in addition to Gold. I could see the D-Series being useful for more than just the Grasshopper.

It's very interesting that what you are finding in your threads is oxidation instead of mystery gunk. Is it possible you were removing tiny metal particles from the machining process instead? This would explain the smoother threading.

Not that I doubt your experience, just trying to throw extra ideas out there. I find this topic very interesting.

Perhaps I should clean the backend threads with iso, and then use the D-Series to see what additional gunk comes off. I would finish with the Gold.

Depending on my results with the DeoxIT products, I may use them right away on my new Ti preorder when I get it. It would be interesting to see what I could get from a D-Series cleaning after I've cleaned a brand new hopper with iso.

I hear ya....

To be clear, I wouldn't even think of cleaning it again with D or G for a while... for the meanwhile I'll just use ISO.

Unless someone can analyze the material that comes off after application of DetoxIT, I am going by what it says, that you're removing oxidation that's been "freed" of it's molecular attachment to the metal.

It very well can be that the original Mystery Gunk was somehow immigrated into a complete assembly, whether it's machining oil residue or ?, but it doesn't discount that it also could be some kind of "micro-arcing" - - I just don't know.

All I know is that the stuff that comes up after DetoxIT is applied, wouldn't come up with ISO. It was "created" by the DetoxIT.

Did I answer you? I'm stoned.

 

[moondog]

I just did a DetoxIT trial, and for those of you who don't want to read the details... GET SOME.

just using the D-solution here. This is all that's necessary for the threads. If the backend contact is plated, I'd be surprised, and I can't really tell what that inside contact is, but I'm pretty sure there's no gold plating on this device. So, I personally don't believe the G-solution is necessary. The D-solution is sufficient for the contacts. And to those that disagree, I admit you are probably adding some benefit to the contacts with the G-solution. But by the time the contacts degrade THAT much, we will be vaping with Grasshopper's third generation product... I just think it's overkill.

The Pen is great, because with the threads being milled so fine on the hopper, the firm point of the pen easily glides along the threads as you turn the body/backend while holding the tip gently but firmly against the threads. Like a phonograph needle moving along the record grooves (remember, kids?!).

Wiping the threads afterwards with a clean cloth (use white so you really see what this stuff does), you'll see a goodly amount of that green-black residue. Keep wiping, pressing into the threads (like you're screwing the cloth into/onto the threads. The directions say to repeat the application and wiping until there's no more residue. I didn't do that; I only applied once.

I gave a quick pen-rub on the backend contact, and get this - the Pen body fits perfectly into the hopper body and lands the pen tip right on the center contact inside! A litter jiggle of the pen to move the tip around just for a second, and then use a Q-Tip to rub the contact. Note here: there was virtually no residue on either contact in my case (I had previously kept them clean-looking, otherwise).

I had said that since I got my hopper, I hardly experience a warm backend but I have noticed that the clip would carry the tell-tell sign of inefficiiency because it gets relatively hotter than the backend due to its narrow form. I can say quite impressively that the clip was COOL on my first hit.

This stuff is a must have in my book.

RESOURCE THREAD!!

Edit: But of course, let's include the Gold vs. D info.

You guys are doing amazing work here.

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

I have just been speculating, not necessarily seeking answers. But you did an excellent job.

I have been speculating beyond my expertise so I will stop now. I have faith in the DeoxIT products and just ordered a D-Series and Gold pen from Amazon. I think I got the last Gold pen in stock actually.

When it comes in a couple days I will do a thorough cleaning with iso, d-series, and gold in that order.

 

[Mr. Me2]

Just finished my popcorn. Mmmmmmmm...

 

[JoeMama]

RESOURCE THREAD!!

Whoa whoa! hahaha... I can understand the concerns, and we all know everyone needs to come to their own conclusions. Though having the topic referenced in the Fix Resource is probably just good to have!

I have just been speculating, not necessarily seeking answers. But you did an excellent job.

I have been speculating beyond my expertise so I will stop now. I have faith in the DeoxIT products and just ordered a D-Series and Gold pen from Amazon. I think I got the last Gold pen in stock actually.

When it comes in a couple days I will do a thorough cleaning with iso, d-series, and gold in that order.

You know, I just don't think you can go wrong with even a sparing application frequency of this stuff.

I just killed the battery, and it has performed like a battery should. THIS IS IMPORTANT:

When I first got the hopper, the first couple of battery-usages there was no "flickering blue" light. There was a flashing blue light that came on fairly soon before the RED came on. Then after that, I noticed a fast blue "flickering". I even asked Caroline, and she said, it's normal, it means the battery is dying.

OK.

I can't help it, I'm a Dilbert.

Why did I get flickering blues now and not at first? So I cleaned it (no DetoxIT) with ISO, blablabal, and OK, maybe it was better, I dunno, they said it was normal. Fucked up to me that it wasn't CONSISTENT.

DetoxIT Days---- The blue does NOT FLICKER. It now flashes appropriately before the RED comes on. NO MORE FLICKERING for 2 solid hits before it flashes and THEN goes to RED.

@Mr. Me2 you mentioned tightening the back end and gettling a fast flicker... THIS is the same thing! It is an identical response to an identical condition of energy being inefficiently directed.

This is big to me. It means that this stuff works because the battery is fully "there" in the circuit and not struggling to provide all this energy inefficiently.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a wrap.

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

I've updated the Fixes resource with a DeoxIT section.

 

[greenextinguisher]

To be clear, I wouldn't even think of cleaning it again with D or G for a while... for the meanwhile I'll just use ISO.

I think that's a great approach/bit of advice and worth noting. I'm happy you aren't advising daily/weekly cleanings with deoxit. Does it have any guidance for reapplication in its instructions?

 

[JoeMama]

I think that's a great approach/bit of advice and worth noting. I'm happy you aren't advising daily/weekly cleanings with deoxit. Does it have any guidance for reapplication in its instructions?

Actually, you know, I don't think that the stuff is meant for very regular use. It's a restorative process. And then only to be maintained.

So as I have stood corrected that, because these are "new" devices, there is no need to "restore" the contacts with the D solution. However, perhaps the very first time you use this, The D solution would be OK. But thereafter, I don't see any reason ever to use that again, and opt instead for the G solution, maybe once a week? I think it's going to come down to trial and error, and I'm happy to keep everyone posted because I certainly will be undertaking this for my own edification.

I think it's important to note that, since removing the first battery use since cleaning, I have taken a Q-tip to the threads and still been able to remove oxidation. Not so much as before, but perhaps the solution continues to work for a significant period of time allowing the easy removal of the inevitable oxidation. I don't know, I'm speculating here but, there definitely is more to be wiped from the threads as you continue using the device.

EDIT: And I should add that it's not that I believe that it's possible that the body is disintegrating before my eyes. I'm not troubled by the concern of seeing the oxidation. And frankly, I don't even think Hopper labs has even thought of this. Because their aeronautical engineers, not electrical ones

I think that's a great approach/bit of advice and worth noting. I'm happy you aren't advising daily/weekly cleanings with deoxit. Does it have any guidance for reapplication in its instructions?

Sorry if I missed your question, @greenextinguisher ... I haven't found specific instruction for when to repeat any application.
But, if it counts for anything... when I repaired TV's in my younger days, and we applied that cleaner to contacts (it was a blue spray), it lasted for a long time - enough to not see that TV back for that problem again! That's much lower voltage and current for those rotary switches, granted, but I'm hoping I don't even have to think about reapplying that for at least a week. If I had the Gold (gotta order it), I'd have applied that right after the D. Still, a week at least, but that's just my OCD. Tell you what, in a week I'll do a review of how this has fared.

 

[Chose]

I find if you follow gh best practice instructions most user problems just fade away
I believe most users expect to mutch from this vape
Sorry but this vape is not an end to your vas and won't cure you but it is an incredible vape for sure
And will slow your vas down but at the end of the day there is no cure
Sorry ime totally hopped

 

[vapognak]

OK you've got me! DeoxIT is ordered! I will keep you updated if hot back end issue is a bit cured by it, in addition I've found that just slightly unscrew the back end while using the GH helps a lot: with this fix the back end is just warm and not very hot.

Also, could anyone told me if when you are looking at the inside of the hopper you can see something like this:

?

It seems it's damaged and it makes me anxious that it could get worst, until no metal left :/

 

[JoeMama]

OK you've got me! DeoxIT is ordered! I will keep you updated if hot back end issue is a bit cured by it, in addition I've found that just slightly unscrew the back end while using the GH helps a lot: with this fix the back end is just warm and not very hot.

Also, could anyone told me if when you are looking at the inside of the hopper you can see something like this:

?

It seems it's damaged and it makes me anxious that it could get worst, until no metal left :/

That definitely looks like mystery gunk in the center of the contact... Are those "crescent" shapes at approximately at the 7 and 9 O'Clock positions actually chunks of contact missing, or is it just more gunk?

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

I have not used any DeoxIT products so don't listen to a word I say.

As far as frequency of application, i plan on using the D-Series first followed by Gold, then repeating with Gold when I feel my back end starting to get warm. Then I would just use Gold until it isn't effective, at which point I would use the D-Series followed by Gold.

I hope that makes sense, do a good thorough cleaning, and after that use the cleaner that is more mild as needed until it no longer works. Then repeat the cycle, thorough cleaning and then maintenance as needed.

 

[MoltenTiger]

OK you've got me! DeoxIT is ordered! I will keep you updated if hot back end issue is a bit cured by it, in addition I've found that just slightly unscrew the back end while using the GH helps a lot: with this fix the back end is just warm and not very hot.

Also, could anyone told me if when you are looking at the inside of the hopper you can see something like this:

?

It seems it's damaged and it makes me anxious that it could get worst, until no metal left :/

Pretty sure, every time the temp dial is turned, the battery turns too, scuffing the stationary contact on the PCB.

In this instance DeoxIT D-series may be good for maintenance as it could leave a slight oil residue preventing some damage. However if this oil is conductive, I don't think it should be used on the PCB, from what I can tell it's primary use would be for cleaning oxidised copper, and it doesn't do the greatest job of all chemical cleaners, although it does work to a decent extent, it leaves an oil film on what it was in contact with.
For the back end threads, I imagine it would clean better than ISO and make it easier to screw on/off due to leaving chemicals behind. ISO evaporates away fairly rapidly which is why it's been my choice cleaning agent for the hopper. I might try some electrical cleaning agent on the threads, but from my experience these products require a lot of mechanical energy scrubbing to work effectively

 

[vapognak]

That definitely looks like mystery gunk in the center of the contact... Are those "crescent" shapes at approximately at the 7 and 9 O'Clock positions actually chunks of contact missing, or is it just more gunk?

I was thinking about gunk too at the beginning but it's no! not at all. what you can see (I admit it's blurry on the picture but take my word for it) is missing metal, forming the shape of a crescent-moon, and it let's appearing the grid behind it.

I'd wish it was some gunk :/

edit : after some photoshop:

 

[vapviking]

I was thinking about gunk too at the beginning but it's no! not at all. what you can see (I admit it's blurry on the picture but take my word for it) is missing metal, forming the shape of a crescent-moon, and it let's appearing the grid behind it.

I'd wish it was some gunk :/

edit : after some photoshop:

This is really disturbing, and I see your hopper is only a couple of months old. Glad it is not near the airway/vapor path, but still, I hope you contact HL right away about this! and stay in touch here about the status!
We can only hope that this is a 'one off' problem; maybe some defect in the manufacture?
Thanks for showing this. I don't believe any amount or type of cleaners/solvents will Fix in this case!

 

[JoeMama]

I was thinking about gunk too at the beginning but it's no! not at all. what you can see (I admit it's blurry on the picture but take my word for it) is missing metal, forming the shape of a crescent-moon, and it let's appearing the grid behind it.

I'd wish it was some gunk :/

edit : after some photoshop:

Definitely Warranty time. I also hope and suspect this is a one- off problem.

 

[JoeMama]

Pretty sure, every time the temp dial is turned, the battery turns too, scuffing the stationary contact on the PCB.

The battery does not turn when you turn the dial. If you take the backend off and turn the dial while looking at the backend contact, it does not turn.

But some wise person on this forum a while ago mentioned that when he/she loads the battery, it is done "upside down" or at least sideways, to avoid having the battery smack against that fragile looking contact in there. It really does look fragile, doesn't it....

 

[IAmKrazy2]

I have been using my two GH's a lot. Not the best bong vape, and not the best direct draw, but its size speed and easy to use nature make it one of the first vapes i reach for.

Cleaning is very easy, and we know it is portable. Does the unit and vapor get a little hot? Yes. But my primary complains are minor besides that. I would like to be able to turn off the LED light, the little clip is too weak, and pressing the pen button can be a little awkaward. Over all, really great vape, and downright groundbreaking when considering its size.

 

[MoltenTiger]

Definitely Warranty time. I also hope and suspect this is a one- off problem.

I don't think it's worth worrying about, surely your device is performing better than ever?

That's my PCB pic from earlier, when I discovered the same thing with my unit.
It's scuffed brass from battery rotation, caused by turning the temp dial* and un/screwing the backend whilst the battery is under tension from the springs in the contact. As you can see I churn through batteries.
I think the contact is fairly substantial, it is a raised solid metal block.
There is barely any difference between my new unit and my OGh, performance wise or ABV wise. The newer one does seem to run with a cooler backend, but it feels more rigid than the original too. I couldn't pick the difference with a blind vape test, I doubt. And using them simultaneously, there's not much difference in heat up times and it seems random which one will heat up first - mostly it's battery level that affects this.

*not this

 

[JoeMama]

I don't think it's worth worrying about, surely your device is performing better than ever?

That's my PCB pic from earlier, when I discovered the same thing with my unit.
It's scuffed brass from battery rotation, caused by turning the temp dial* and un/screwing the backend whilst the battery is under tension from the springs in the contact. As you can see I churn through batteries.

*not this

Not sure I'm getting the subtext there, but I am turning the temp dial and the contact doesn't turn. Maybe yours does, but mine does not. PERHAPS it is turning when you screw on the backend, but it isn't turning once it's tightened down.

And yes, my device is performing better than ever.

 

[greenextinguisher]

I was thinking about gunk too at the beginning but it's no! not at all. what you can see (I admit it's blurry on the picture but take my word for it) is missing metal, forming the shape of a crescent-moon, and it let's appearing the grid behind it.

I'd wish it was some gunk :/

edit : after some photoshop:

Both of mine have warn away plating on that contact as well. It's basically an identical dotted grid pattern on both of mine. Here is a pic of the SS:

edit, here is a pic of the TI:

I know it looks black there, but its silver-colored. Shooting down a metal barrel is hard!

I'm not too concerned about it at this point. Both of my backend contacts are pristine. Both of my internal contacts have looked like this from the moment I opened them.

 

[MoltenTiger]

I edited my post after reading your more recent reply concerning the turning.
My apologies I'm super baked, I am travelling around and just blasted 3 chambers

I found the ultimate travel solution for big rips to be a length (~12"/30cm) of silicone with a drip tip

Courtesy of @Ratchett for the pic and idea.
The downside of using a small/opaque mouthpiece is that you can't easily get a sense of how much vapour you're inhaling. Which adds a fun twist compared to bong hits.
I've been using Arizer EQ silicone hose which fits fairly easily. It's also good to use small (2-5cm) sections to connect to glass, handy stuff to have around.

I nearly forgot why I brought this up again.. Any chance of a FLIR shot @Ratchett of a silicone hose to a.) find ideal length and b.) see how much heat this thing casts up the tube.

 

[Baron23]

The battery does not turn when you turn the dial. If you take the backend off and turn the dial while looking at the backend contact, it does not turn.

But some wise person on this forum a while ago mentioned that when he/she loads the battery, it is done "upside down" or at least sideways, to avoid having the battery smack against that fragile looking contact in there. It really does look fragile, doesn't it....

Hi fellas....I think we may be entering the realm of clinical paranoia here. The gold plating on the positive contact in my GH is also not smoothly drawn or symmetrical. And it also shows some wear of the contact or wearing of of silver alloy from the battery side onto the contact). Also, it works perfectly now and has for a few months with no back end heat issues whatsoever (and may the gods grant that this continues).

Somebody said its brass..I don't claim to have any real info...just looks like thin gold film to me but could be brass. Doesn't change my view of it which is that this is a non-problem so far.

I really think:
1. All we are looking at is crappy gold film application job done in Chinese factory somewhere
2. One can argue about any real efficacy of this little bit of gold (or brass) so who cares if it doesn't look like it was etched by Michelangelo.

I'm not telling anyone what to do and, if you wish to contact Hopper, I would be as interested as anyone in their reply. But I don't think this is making it to my 'worry list'.

By the by, I just couldn't get as good of a pic as the Green man did above. He did GREAT pics of the contact/PCB.

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

There's some great info in these recent posts , but you guys are killing me with these broken images.

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/how-to-post-pictures.155/

If you are using Imgur, and you want to use the image button on FC, choose the direct link, this is probably where most are going wrong. You will know if you did it right if after you press insert the image appears in your post. It should appear right away without having to post reply.

If you want to copy and paste the code directly in your post, use the linked bb code.

My inner contact has a grid-like pattern of dots on it:

No Flash

With Flash