Discontinued The Grasshopper

[klipsch]

I've also received refunds of cancelled orders, and relatively easily. Once was even for a SS case.
But I think @Shrike's was prolly an Indie go-go campaign item, and maybe HL draws a different line on those items, as far as refunds are concerned (not that I endorse their position, if that is their positon). He mentioned HL's attitude of not having to refund on an item never actually made.

I had inquired some years ago about a SS case refund and HL refused due to my order being part of the initial campaign.

 

[Hopper Labs]

Getting the charger up and running seems like it should be an easier task than a whole new Hopper....... @Hopper Labs what say you?

The charger is an entirely new product, which requires a while different assembly line and supply chain. We have had problems along the way. Delays both by the HBC and by the problems with the Grasshopper. It has not gone smoothly, and we are sorry it has not yet shipped.

Not as easy a friggin steel case! My buddy is still waiting for his - and now his only unit lost in the HL fire. Priorities, priorities! RMA backlog was improved to 85% yet they were only getting to Nov ‘18 which is over a year ago. I’ve no doubt the backlog has been reduced but I think getting ‘caught up’ within 5% (and that’s a generous tolerance compared to an exceptional 1-2% unit defect rate) was still a year or more away. I’m fairly certain I have the percentage and date correct and I think those don’t quite jive. That’s just me.

Nonetheless I appreciate @Hopper Labs presence and updates herein. I appreciated even more details on the efficiency gains, which makes sense (to me, a layman with this stuff). I hope they’re right which would be like my RMA’d Ti on steroids. I hope they can pull it off. I’ll be a vape spectator on this on though. My Hopper works fine as is as long as they get the (ahem) battery issues squared away. I don’t need more horsepower using it natively sans silicone tip 99% of the time. With my unit back from RMA, my regular temp is down a full setting so what would gen 2.0 do for me? Allow me to use it on yet another full lower setting (which would almost be 1.0)? Sigh.

Time will tell and I’m content with my lot, empathic with the recent positivity about the reliability and reduction in RMA backlog - until the fire and subsequent battery ‘recall’. I hope this next gen really pulls themselves up by the bootstraps but I’ll be a spactator, impartial observer, and cautiously indifferent (and a tad optimistic ).

The SS case and HBC are both still in the same state as they were pre-fire. Nothing has changed or progressed due to the fire. Here is my original message: "The HBC is fully complete and is "waiting" only on production equipment and 3rd party interfacing to finish. There are still a number of steps before it goes to full-scale production, to ensure everything will go smoothly and the QC is in place to not create a huge headache."

What I said before about the warranty is true. Nov '18 for the chamber assembly, yes. Caught up on every other problem including just a heater swap, yes. Most of the backlog is cleared and the rest only a short way out.

More power does not mean the device runs hotter. If you use setting 2 on your current hopper you would use setting 2 on the new one.

@Hopper Labs will the newly manufactured GHB2 batteries have a different color wrapper or some clear markings on them to make it easy to identify them in the future?

There will be a clear way to tell.

 

[Vaporific]

Either way, I think butane vapes are my new future. No electronics to worry about over time. No dealing with annoying batteries. Will still work from inside a cave during the end times.

I just bought my first Dynavap on Black Friday for the same reason. My Hopper however continues to work well upon its RMA return a few months ago. I do believe HL has nailed the heater and heating assembly to the point of consistency in RMA’d units - and also new ones from what I’ve gathered herein. So this is welcome progress.

The SS case and HBC are both still in the same state as they were pre-fire

This is NOT progress. 5-6 years to mass produce a steel case? Are there gold plated electronics inside? I think not. I’ve never order one nor the HBC but if someone wants a refund for something they’ve never received within a reasonable amount, I think that’s fair. Just my and advocating for those without anything to show for their monetary investment.

 

[Hopper Labs]

hahaha

@Hopper Labs - you really, really, really would be smart to address this to the community. Can you please explain how in the world its has been this long and you have not fulfilled these types of accessories orders.

Do you have any rational that would justify an owner in such a position as described by Shrike, above, giving you any more money?

While I applaud the fact that Hopper is here and talking to us...some....there still are elephants in the living room that are not be discussed.....like the cases and the $40 people paid for them????

Like I said a few posts ago we knew and expected some pushback on the launch of our new product. I laid out reasons for moving forward in that post, a way for people to contribute, etc.

The SS/TI cases are way overdue but understand that they have been through a number of design revisions and delays on there own on top of the issues related to the Grasshopper and Hopper Labs as a whole. We have been struggling since the beginning to survive. Again, we are not a big operation with a lot resources to absorb setbacks. The problems over the last 6 years are well documented on here. Our focus has always been on solving those problems.

We have had times when it seemed to be going quite well and we pushed forward on both the case and the HBC but then were slammed with the 3rd party heater manufacturing issues, causing one of our biggest setbacks. We struggled through that, and now the fire. I am by no means trying to get any sympathy, only bringing the issues up in context. We have always offered refunds for those who pre-order through our website and store credit exchange for anyone who contributed on the indigogo campaign.

Many have criticized the decisions we have made and maybe they are right. To us, it seems to benefit everyone the most if we stay in business and continue to support device and communities. It is obvious that certain decisions will/do rub people the wrong way but sometimes they are the only options. Should we quit now because we have no devices to sell and the accessories are not done? Or should we open reservations for a product we have nearly complete, complete the new Hopper and get delivery of those accessories as soon as we can? People will be upset the warranty is not done and the accessories did not come out before, but we are surviving to complete those another day.

We will complete the accessories, deliver new batteries and the new hopper thanks to the many who have decided, that despite shortcomings, we are doing something worthwhile. We truly thank those who continue to show support for our mission. If it were not for those people we would not be able to continue on. So thanks again!

 

[slozukimc]

Like I said a few posts ago we knew and expected some pushback on the launch of our new product. I laid out reasons for moving forward in that post, a way for people to contribute, etc.

The SS/TI cases are way overdue but understand that they have been through a number of design revisions and delays on there own on top of the issues related to the Grasshopper and Hopper Labs as a whole. We have been struggling since the beginning to survive. Again, we are not a big operation with a lot resources to absorb setbacks. The problems over the last 6 years are well documented on here. Our focus has always been on solving those problems.

We have had times when it seemed to be going quite well and we pushed forward on both the case and the HBC but then were slammed with the 3rd party heater manufacturing issues, causing one of our biggest setbacks. We struggled through that, and now the fire. I am by no means trying to get any sympathy, only bringing the issues up in context. We have always offered refunds for those who pre-order through our website and store credit exchange for anyone who contributed on the indigogo campaign.

Many have criticized the decisions we have made and maybe they are right. To us, it seems to benefit everyone the most if we stay in business and continue to support device and communities. It is obvious that certain decisions will/do rub people the wrong way but sometimes they are the only options. Should we quit now because we have no devices to sell and the accessories are not done? Or should we open reservations for a product we have nearly complete, complete the new Hopper and get delivery of those accessories as soon as we can? People will be upset the warranty is not done and the accessories did not come out before, but we are surviving to complete those another day.

We will complete the accessories, deliver new batteries and the new hopper thanks to the many who have decided, that despite shortcomings, we are doing something worthwhile. We truly thank those who continue to show support for our mission. If it were not for those people we would not be able to continue on. So thanks again!

Thanks for the update! I, for one, am glad that you are pushing on with hand made in the USA products and doing the best you can to support them. It surely would have been easier to outsource to China and have 14 different copies of Hoppers out there giving them an even worse reputation or to just say fuck it altogether. I applaud your “I ain’t fuckin quittin” attitude and wish you luck.

 

[mephisto]

I gotta say that this is the first I have heard about store credit for the oils front-end, and SS case from the
indie go-go days. I was also told " tough shit" basically about a refund for those items. Now it seems impossible to expedite a refund for the HBC and 3 batteries. I have submitted 3 requests and gotten the
auto response. I really don't want to go back to raging dick mode in order to elicit a refund for products that are not available. Tell you what, @Hopper Labs, how about you take the indie gogo backer money, and my
refund from the unavailable batteries and quick charger and send me a brand new Ti unit with 1 factory issued battery? Seems fair enough for the amount of time and support us backers have hung around.
I even donated $100 toward your future in the form of a pre-order for the "new" hopper. You would think that I would know better, but I am just a stoner after all.

 

[ChooChooCharlie]

Overcast today
Saw slice of blue
Must vape within the lines

Started thinking about Hopper red/blue scheme, better for color blind folks than red/green. Intentional?

 

[Vaporific]

Overcast today
Saw slice of blue
Must vape within the lines

Friggin 5 inches of snow today. Stepped out for mail. Hoppered on the way Wish I could post a pic of first snowfall...

Here’s a thought: the new Gen 2 Hopper will (possibly) launch in April ‘20. I wonder if the new battery shipment will arrive in time for the launch? Or will or does HL have enough pre-fire batteries to ship with the new units? I assume they must but I’d be curious if the new batts - for the rest of us - would be ready by then too.

Now where did I put my Hopper?

 

[Raf]

That's interesting. I'm not at the point of wanting to purchase a back end, have just enough to cover us out atm, but I have had a recurring back-end theme with one particular purchase. A Green Ti purchased in '18 has blown through 5 back-ends (plus 1x body repair) in 16 month's time. All have been in relatively close proximity, s/n-wise and I guess part of a rather large bad batch or something. Each one has gone to a dodgey/untrustworthy state wherein it is random whether it will power on/off or not, including powering on at random, which is where I draw the line and take it out of service. That Green Ti currently has an OG, pre-order SS back-end on it and can look even fancier when I put a SS mp or pfe on the green body.
Someday it will all get worked out, I'm sure.

This is f***** up dude, that means that green body has some kind of problem with it there's no way you can have that many faulty back ends when I've never had any faulty back ends it's always the body that's the problem

Edit: technically i had one faulty back end when I dropped an entire bong with the unit inserted that landed on tile directly on the f****** clicky unit. I suspect this one may have been due to user error

Dec 15th it will be 6 fucking years since I ordered a Ti Case. Six Years!!

WtF? There was a Ti case option?! I would probably still not have ordered it since I remember the website said something like this will ship out a really long time from now, after other issues are resolved, can't remember the exact wording. But I remember thinking I would rather buy an extra unit than pre-order a case

Yeah it makes my pocket look weird but I prefer to use a pelican 1020 (diagonal fit, silicone cover for clicky end to seat snugly) because I don't want everyone to wonder why I smell so nice from all the ground up lavender. You would think why would he even care about smell? it's just lavender. Well I'll tell you, people might be enjoying saturating in my lavender smell, but what if they dont like it? Thats consumerism or something if i force my smells on them

Many have criticized the decisions we have made and maybe they are right. To us, it seems to benefit everyone the most if we stay in business and continue to support device and communities.

Good call to choose the obvious correct move of deprioritizing accessories over function and now scary battery concerns. I believe the stories about supply chain issues that were unavoidable and it's obvious that limited resources were available in order to purchase fixes to the whack a mole of problems that occurred. thanks for making the choice to survive and not just saying f*** it there's too much problems popping up lets quit like a bunch of quitters

...yet still they persisted and tracked down sad batteryless bastards and gave them batteries

 

[Baron23]

Like I said a few posts ago we knew and expected some pushback on the launch of our new product. I laid out reasons for moving forward in that post, a way for people to contribute, etc.

The SS/TI cases are way overdue but understand that they have been through a number of design revisions and delays on there own on top of the issues related to the Grasshopper and Hopper Labs as a whole. We have been struggling since the beginning to survive. Again, we are not a big operation with a lot resources to absorb setbacks. The problems over the last 6 years are well documented on here. Our focus has always been on solving those problems.

We have had times when it seemed to be going quite well and we pushed forward on both the case and the HBC but then were slammed with the 3rd party heater manufacturing issues, causing one of our biggest setbacks. We struggled through that, and now the fire. I am by no means trying to get any sympathy, only bringing the issues up in context. We have always offered refunds for those who pre-order through our website and store credit exchange for anyone who contributed on the indigogo campaign.

Many have criticized the decisions we have made and maybe they are right. To us, it seems to benefit everyone the most if we stay in business and continue to support device and communities. It is obvious that certain decisions will/do rub people the wrong way but sometimes they are the only options. Should we quit now because we have no devices to sell and the accessories are not done? Or should we open reservations for a product we have nearly complete, complete the new Hopper and get delivery of those accessories as soon as we can? People will be upset the warranty is not done and the accessories did not come out before, but we are surviving to complete those another day.

We will complete the accessories, deliver new batteries and the new hopper thanks to the many who have decided, that despite shortcomings, we are doing something worthwhile. We truly thank those who continue to show support for our mission. If it were not for those people we would not be able to continue on. So thanks again!

Thank you for your thorough reply.

While I have expressed some sympathy for your situation, lauded my now working one of two GHs performance, and certainly have expressed hope and best wishes for new design changes to be effective and for your production plant to get back quickly to operation, I just have to throw the BS flag on the SS cases....which you STILL have on your site for sale.

I'm just not buying it. You are not a machine shop and I speculate that you couldn't possibly produce these yourself even though its really just a fairly simple case based on pics shown. So, a CAD design and send it out to contract manf for bid and then production. Heck, even NewVape may have been a potential source as they are indeed a machine shop.

If you couldn't design a case and deliver it in six years, you never should have taken money for it. And you should not still have it for sale on your site to this day, IMO.

Sorry, but the case situation....that's hard to accept.

And, store credit after six years of non-delivery? And some folks above are saying that they were told no on a refund. That's just money for nothing at this point.

I still wish Hopper the best of luck, I still plan on buying a new GH when you are back in production, but I can't find any justification for Hopper's failure to deliver on am empty case for such a long period of time.

 

[Mr Mellish]

I believe it took 16 months for me to get my first two (Indiegogo) Hoppers. It was very soon after that that I decided to cancel my order for the case. In hindsight, it was a brilliant decision.

Here's where I may be crazy...I just got a new Ti hopper and I'm so pleased with it that today I pre-ordered the 65W. Would love it if it were matte black...

That will mean I will own 4 hoppers as of April 2020 (although my son will not let me pry my OG Ti from his hands...I'll have to find some other poor sucker who needs to learn about vaping to donate my OG SS to).

Am I confident I'll see this new version in April? Hell.Fucking.No. Guess what, I gots more vapes.

If they were to go tits up, I'd be much less worried about the $99 reservation than I am about the lack of an ongoing source of batteries.

As far as butane vapes, I have a Vapman (R.I.P.) and a Vapcap. I found the Vapman relatively easy to manage. I didn't like the Vapcap at all, because it was too easy to combust. Plus, you can't just throw a hot Vapcap in your pocket if things get real. If you live in a household where stealth is essential (e.g. spouse who should work for the feds to stamp this shit out), the butane vapes are scary. They make more sound and (I know some people will argue), they leave a residual smell. And if you fuck up and combust? That residual smell is a death sentence. I have long claimed that the Vapman would be my post-zombie apocalypse vape but, at this point, I'm reserving it for that day.

 

[slozukimc]

@Hopper Labs will the new Hopper be black like in the image you posted?

 

[Cheesequake]

@Hopper Labs will the new Hopper be black like in the image you posted?

The image posted is literally just a regular grasshopper with the brightness lowered:

 

[slozukimc]

The image posted is literally just a regular grasshopper with the brightness lowered:

Well that is just plain shady....

 

[Raf]

The image posted is literally just a regular grasshopper with the brightness lowered:

I think and Hope @slozukimc knows that but he just wants it to be a color option LOL

Edit: well anyway it may use the same cylinder with different Hardware inside /shrug. But I just assumed there was no picture of the new unit available yet while I was busy placing my reservation

If it uses the same battery, maybe the same body makes sense

 

[Mr Mellish]

The image posted is literally just a regular grasshopper with the brightness lowered:

Thank you, Captain Buzzkill...
I have to admit, I thought about them powder coating it or something and I'm not sure it would go well.

I'm confident it's the same body; I just hoped they would do something to differentiate it. Doing the math to distinguish the SS from the Ti is hard enough...

 

[slozukimc]

I think and Hope @slozukimc knows that but he just wants it to be a color option LOL

Edit: well anyway it may use the same cylinder with different Hardware inside /shrug. But I just assumed there was no picture of the new unit available yet while I was busy placing my reservation

If it uses the same battery, maybe the same body makes sense

I did know that.....I was just hopeful for a “stealth” model that is all black without the stainless back end band.

 

[Vapetrees]

It’s been a while since I’ve been on here. Just wanted to hop in and say my OG grasshopper is still alive and well. I use it every once in a while, not that heavy anymore but it still works the same as when I got it. The backend gets a bit warm but it produces great tasting vapor starting on the second temperature setting. Needless to say I’m going to gamble again since I just preordered the new one. Hope all is well in hopper land.

 

[Raf]

Thank you, Captain Buzzkill...
I have to admit, I thought about them powder coating it or something and I'm not sure it would go well.

I'm confident it's the same body; I just hoped they would do something to differentiate it. Doing the math to distinguish the SS from the Ti is hard enough...

It will be stamped "Made in Wakanda"

Edit: a badass/ ironic flame icon engraved on the clip would be cool if they're hard to tell apart otherwise. I don't want mine to be colored unless it's some new powder coating technology that honestly let's not even f*** with that right now. If the original color Ti gradually rubs off on glass but I can't see the color on the glass, then where is the color going? this is a question I don't want to think about

 

[vapviking]

This is f***** up dude, that means that green body has some kind of problem with it there's no way you can have that many faulty back ends when I've never had any faulty back ends it's always the body that's the problem

I don't think this is the case.
Having multiple hoppers has allowed me to try different combinations and before I even make warranty claims I can typically narrow it down to a back end or a body-related issue. Most times I've waited for a replacement back-end for the Green Ti, I'm still able to use its' body with a different back end on it. When a replacement comes, it has typically worked for a few weeks before getting weird and unreliable. This is the only one of 5 hoppers (for me) that has had serious back-end issues, and I have to assume a bunch of green back ends (maybe others...) had some amount of bad parts go into them.

 

[btka]

@Hopper Labs labs I like that you are the one and only innovative company regarding vaporizers especially your heater...

besides warranty problem...

I would like to see a new cooling solution for the grasshopper especially when on the go... because temps past 4 the vapor is too harsh... so I only use my grasshopper with glass at home which kills the purpose of portablility...
I think this is a big problem with the grasshopper... do you plan a better cooling solution (a discreet one)?
I think this is what is holding the hopper back to be the best portable vaporizer...

 

[kilo]

I would like to see a new cooling solution for the grasshopper especially when on the go... because temps past 4 the vapor is too harsh...

When I see people reporting that the vapor is too harsh I always wonder why they don't let the unit cool down between draws. It doesn't take long if you roll it between your palms or just close your hand around it. With a PFE I find that a silicone drip tip which extends past the mouthpiece end does a pretty good job since your lips aren't closing around the metal. Honestly, letting the unit cool down and using a silicone extension, I find hits at 4½ - 5 don't scorch at all.

 

[btka]

When I see people reporting that the vapor is too harsh I always wonder why they don't let the unit cool down between draws. It doesn't take long if you roll it between your palms or just close your hand around it. With a PFE I find that a silicone drip tip which extends past the mouthpiece end does a pretty good job since your lips aren't closing around the metal. Honestly, letting the unit cool down and using a silicone extension, I find hits at 4½ - 5 don't scorch at all.

you have to read what I write... the vapor is harsh (on throat) ... I am not complaining that the mouthpiece gets too hot..

cooling down the unit only helps cooling down mouthpiece not against harsh vapor...

the matter why the vapor is harsh is because heating element herb and mouthpiece are very near... no cooling path for vapor...

If you can take comfortably a huge draw from mouthpiece of hopper without feeling a bite in your throat then you have an iron throat or your hopper is running cold... otherwise I want tosee a video... you taking 15 sec. draw on hopper temp 5 native wihtout glass...

 

[slozukimc]

you have to read what I write... the vapor is harsh (on throat) ... I am not complaining that the mouthpiece gets too hot..

cooling down the unit only helps cooling down mouthpiece not against harsh vapor...

the matter why the vapor is harsh is because heating element herb and mouthpiece are very near... no cooling path for vapor...

If you can take comfortably a huge draw from mouthpiece of hopper without feeling a bite in your throat then you have an iron throat or your hopper is running cold... otherwise I want tosee a video... you taking 15 sec. draw on hopper temp 5 native wihtout glass...

If you have to draw for 15 seconds with the power on high your Hopper is not working right. Power on, blue lights, draw 6 seconds, power off, draw 6 more. Vapor is warm but not ridiculously harsh.

 

[Hopper Labs]

Thank you for your thorough reply.

While I have expressed some sympathy for your situation, lauded my now working one of two GHs performance, and certainly have expressed hope and best wishes for new design changes to be effective and for your production plant to get back quickly to operation, I just have to throw the BS flag on the SS cases....which you STILL have on your site for sale.

I'm just not buying it. You are not a machine shop and I speculate that you couldn't possibly produce these yourself even though its really just a fairly simple case based on pics shown. So, a CAD design and send it out to contract manf for bid and then production. Heck, even NewVape may have been a potential source as they are indeed a machine shop.

If you couldn't design a case and deliver it in six years, you never should have taken money for it. And you should not still have it for sale on your site to this day, IMO.

Sorry, but the case situation....that's hard to accept.

And, store credit after six years of non-delivery? And some folks above are saying that they were told no on a refund. That's just money for nothing at this point.

I still wish Hopper the best of luck, I still plan on buying a new GH when you are back in production, but I can't find any justification for Hopper's failure to deliver on am empty case for such a long period of time.

I am glad you have brought up this perspective as it illustrates a disconnect between the development of products and the perception of users.

1. The case is stainless steel on the outside yes, the inside must have a plastic overmold so your device is not scratched by the case itself. It is not just drilling some holes in a piece of bar stock. The deep cavities required for the vape to fit into are a challenge. An overmold of that size might cost 30-50k to setup. We need to design the mold, have it made, tested, tweaked, and so on. All this is made harder by the fact that the tolerances on the case need to be very tight, so the mold seals well. During the production of the case exterior, we need to monitor that this is indeed being done correctly, or the mold will be ruined. All of this takes way more time and effort than you imagen.

2. CAD design for a consumer product that accounts for all of the above, not even including the mold design, might take weeks for a first revision. None of it is trivial; each decision affects the next and needs to be thought out to the end. This is not a model that is going into a 3d printer, but something that will cost over 30k, excluding labor, to even see the first production unit and then will have many many produced.

3. The end caps need solid retention that will last for many years of removal without becoming loose. This is a difficult challenge just by itself and has undergone many design revisions to get to the point where we thought it was good. Lessons were learned from the Grasshopper, and we don't plan or repeating some of our obvious mistakes.

4. All of this is further compounded by per unit cost requirements. Machining metal to tight tolerances is expensive, even overseas. Some of the original designs cost more to produce that we charged.

5. It is a misrepresentation to say we couldn't design and build it in 6 years. As I stated in my original message, most of the delays came from fixing Grasshopper problems, which were deemed a priority. As much as we would have liked to spend our time working on new products, this could not be with our small staff.

6. Anyone who is saying they could not get a refund has not contacted support@grasshoppervape.com, or there was some mixup. It has been a well-known policy that if you have a pre-order, you can get a refund.


I don't like to harp on the difficulties but only wish to point out that there is a little more to it. There is a high bar, which is great for consumers.