Mr. Gweilo 420
Dude
They are definitely different though. I like the GH through water and for the Z I use a 4 inch glass line roasting tube from Alan. I don't like using 510 style vapes though water. Too much fumbling about for me.
Discontinued The Grasshopper
- Thread starter midgetsanchez
- Start date
Hammahead
Well-Known Member
Yeah, like I said, I'm considering on of those programmable mods and use a proven firmware to make the experience more "civilized", but then, I'm impressed with what this thing can do on a no-name mod.
Cheesequake
Free Men Don't Ask
Hopper Labs has been in the wackiest of states since it was created.
Splinter Z was nowhere near a grasshopper replacement for me.
Edit: Received an email about a 20$ off Ti code...no word on my warranty request though of course.
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MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
I guess, but I'd consider it good or above average crowd funding project - most are really bad. Look at Loto Labs, that's a fair comparison. But yeah, crowd funding is by default kinda wacky, but kinda cool too.
And Sublimator has been a wacky ride for me. I remember first learning of them in 2011 and scoffing at the price.
If I hadn't somehow bought one for 30 AUD, I'd still be scoffing and wouldn't really understand what it was.
vapviking
Old & In the Way
They've been a hugely successful crowd funding project... the funding part, that is.
Today, I see one of the worst developments in the past few years for the 'Labs.
It's the batteries, folks. I fear the jig is up this time.
Originally $7 US each, over the past year they've gone to $12, then $14 recently. (I just saw an 18650, more than double the capacity, for $8).
Yesterday, HL website said batteries, "currently unavailable".
TODAY, site says,
Temporarily Out Of Stock will ship in 2-4 months.
Maybe no batteries available = peeps won't use Hoppers = Hoppers won't fail = NO MORE RMA's ?!?!?!
Genius!
MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
yeah they have been. They have been playing with millions of dollars.
And, to be quite honest, they've committed to this project, they're all in. So, I feel like it's all good. I mean, it's not great but for the consumer it is, eventually. That eventually has panned out into a long amount of time, but on the other end of the hopper is a tiny team working around the clock trying to service a ridiculous backlog.
They said they were buying batteries at $5USD a piece, and selling them for $7 was a gesture to the customer. I think they should have always had bigger margins. You need some control over the scale, making more off less would have been better for them.
They always have super slow shipping times from China, batteries have to travel by sea, they probably only ship large qty's at once to save on costs, and they'd owe so many for on-hold orders, like mine which is almost here.
On the other hand, they haven't made any statements recently apart from discount codes. It's definitely not their finest hour, out of a fairly patchy history too. But, they'll probably pull through, I mean, it's really annoying for the user because they're out of pocket without a vape, but on HL's end that doesn't actually affect them. So it is a pretty wacky situation, but eventually it should get better again. Unless their tech is totally fundamentally flawed, or the sales stop
vapviking
Old & In the Way
I didn't mind the increase to $12, , maybe not even the $14, though frankly I think they should have gone for the bigger margins elsewhere in their product line.
This is just looking like they either A. Planned it this way, a bait and switch gambit or, B. Have sold out on the 'righteously priced' batteries thing.
The part that puts this over the top for me is the (un-) availability. This is not a 'slow boat from China' shipping issue. It's obviously a cash-flow issue. Maybe they didn't bring in enough bucks yet on those pie-in-the-sky chargers to pay for a load of batteries...
Despite my recent cynicism I do still wish them eventual success with the product, since I own 5 of them and 4 are currently not working. ahem...
vapviking
Old & In the Way
Nice to see you.
Hope they got those good food trucks for ya at the new place!
MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I wouldn't have minded a simple notification before the price increase, or even before they started moving.. that's interesting. Seems like pretty unfortunate timing to be moving.
Best of luck to them
Hammahead
Well-Known Member
Soo... are they moving to a larger or smaller space?
MonkeyTime
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, I have always believed this to be the case. The choice to make this design without wires was the lynch pin. From a manufacturing standpoint, far too complicated with too little room for error.
They've had a lot of time to fix the fundamental problems, none of which they have. (IMO, what's actually different in v5 parts?) They may have improved their failure rate some, but it's still no where near acceptable.
Any day now they can give up this useless fight and start over with the same heater in a minimally larger form factor FTW!
MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
yeah you might be right.
But that said, I have had a number of different hoppers. Different coloured PCBs, heater shields, sensor placements, back end weldings, different switches. It's been incremental but they have made improvements, and the massive cloud I just exhaled with their recent tech is convincing me not to worry.
I do really enjoy the form factor, so I'm happy for them to pursue it. I'm sorted in every other way, be it portable or at home. So the hopper can remain the hopper, I'm fine with that
Vaporific
All who wander are not lost...
...or a version 2 that's wider in diameter akin to a thick cigar with a bigger (and better!) battery. I'd be down for that. As long as it works well - and consistently! I'm not an electrical or mechanical engineer but their batteries were initially very inconsistent and I think some of the v2's (or whatever the second iteration is called) were also not consistent. And the wireless thing using the metal body parts as conductors of some type may be problematic and compounded with degraded threading not making optimal contact for an optimal circuit. But what do I know?
I still haven't heard back from them regarding status of my pre-order Ti RMA. Sigh. TGIF to all.
Cheesequake
Free Men Don't Ask
I don't believe for a second the average hopper is any more reliable today that it was in 2015.
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Yep, it just keeps on getting better and better....sigh.
You are far more gentle and understanding than I.
I personally don't care about their emotional state including feelings of "commitment". All I care about is their performance and it has been execrable, IMO.
The reason they have a tiny team after all of this time is that they fucked up by the numbers and still are.
The reason that they have ridiculous backlog is that they fucked up by the numbers and still are.
I don't think they deserve any sort of plea for understanding, quite frankly.
I absolutely agree...and its not just the wireless connections....the entire vape lacks fault detection/isolation, they clearly can't test this mofo as evidenced by all of the crappy performing RMA's that have been shipped back (incl my two), and they don't seem familiar with RMA (reliability/maintainability/availability) engineering.
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MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
They definitely are. 2015 was early days. I got 3 months out of a Jan ’16 Vapefiend unit, and 3 months from a August '16 arrival. One of the three from that order did work for over 2 years - but it was running hot for its last several months, which made it one heck of a hopper.
All units arrived since then have been cooler, but have worked consistently. One from late ’17 and two from early '18.
Totally anecdotal, but each arrival has been noticeably different by the things I listed above.
People having problems most typically have a mixed and matched device. It'll be interesting to see how my RMAs compare when they arrive with some new batteries next week.
Things aren't drastically different, but things were worse in 2015 save for the RMA turnover (which would just break in a shorter time frame, consistently).
Most people are claiming their RMA finally got back.. and then nothing. Maybe they've had no trouble? By late '17 RMAs were lasting weeks most commonly
Cheesequake
Free Men Don't Ask
It's all random. There's no consistency. This unit has been warrantied 6 times since 2018 and has never once worked absolutely perfectly for more than a day or so. Back in 2015 I had units that lasted until I sold them. There is no consistency whatsoever with hopper reliability and it doesn't matter what you do or how you treat them. Just go through the recent pages and pages of people STILL having the exact same problems they did when the hopper launched. I've been following HL since the kickstarter in ~2013. I had one of the first non kickstarter hoppers sold and never has there been a time where people weren't consistently complaining that their hoppers are dying over and over and over. If it seems to have died down very recently it's because people like me finally got tired of talking about the hopper and sending it in every other week for fixes. This thread is consistently on the 2nd+ page when I go hunting for it because people are fed up with HL and their shoddy products.
Mr. Gweilo 420
Dude
Yes I popped in and said hello a few days ago too. They told me things are so groovy that they are relocating to under a bridge.
vapviking
Old & In the Way
If I'm reading your recent posts correctly, these Hoppers had been sent to HL in late 2017 and are coming back to you now? So, that's about a 14 month tun around. And maybe some batteries in there that are currently out of stock?
At least we have a gauge for the RMA timing. And I may be waiting til fall '19 and beyond! My original "time capsule" analogy continues to apply.
My most recent RMA request, submitted 7 days ago, has brought no response other than the initial robo-acknowledgement.
add, edit,
btw, I'm still a bit miffed about the battery thing. It even irks me a little more when I see the spirit of the 'sales pitch'. This is from the product sales page,
"Spare batteries are on order from the manufacturer and it will be 2-4 months before they arrive. Please do not order unless you fully expect to wait that long." (emphsis added)
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voodoo_vape
Vapour RebeL
Not a single word from their side since 26th November.... Not even a happy new year or sth... Have you guys been talking with them lately? Are they still running their business?
MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
Well something is on board for delivery today. At least one RMA and I guess an order, it's been just shy of 13 months for the RMA turn around.
Definitely not a short amount of time. I don't know if I'm getting both RMAs or not as only one is marked as shipped too...
Their front of house staff are basically non-existant at this point. They need to put out an update instead of petty discounts.
The battery price increase isn't that welcome either, but it seems like they should put that 2-4 month statement on everything they're selling. I bought batteries and the battery charger 10 months back, and the set I'm receiving 3 months ago when I sorted some engraving for RMAs. Both RMA units were supposedly in the final testing stages back then in Oct, 10 months since arrival. Getting complex engraving dragged it out a bit longer, I also told them to take their time as I already had a working unit and didn't need to rush. Ultimately my HT unit is still going strong so I have no real need for 3 units, but I should be covered for a long time of hopping from here on out.
I guess that's all helped my patience, having a hopper, and knowing that this day would come when I would have too many because of the extra I bought during the madness.
I only ever had two because the pre-order wait time was also 13 months for me, which is just too long and there have always been easy ways to obtain
grokit
well-worn member
So a bit of good news from my end of things. My old green ti pre-order, that I waited years for and only got a few good months out of, actually still works. I had no idea! I remember that ~15 months ago it wasn't producing vapor anymore so I initiated an rma. They replied not so fast we need you to blow out the sensors with compressed air or something. My entire life has been in upheaval since before then and I didn't have my cool little compressor handy, so I went from ready to ship it to leaving it in a box for over a year.
But I missed it, so when they reached out with the $20 coupon I bought a plain ti version 5 so I would have a working unit whenever my other unit was being serviced, you guys know that drill very well. Well I finally got my little air compressor together with my green hopper, and whaddaya know it works! Damn if I didn't think it was a stalling tactic at the time, but I got it humming really well. So now I have bluetak and deoxit on the way to hopefully help keep it that way. I hope hopper labs eventually makes us all happy.
It works very well actually, wispy on 3.5 but vapor as thick as I want it at setting 4. The front end still gets hot as hell and clogs too easily. I will get another front end so I always have one soaking, and would pay extra for a slightly longer version with some cooling baffles or something inside. Not a quibble.
So that made my week. Who wants to bet that my new unit ships this week or not? When I ordered it said 2-10 days for the plain ti, working days that means it should start moving this week. I really hope it doesn't turn into another stupid situation like all the broken promises of my og unit, but I suppose the smart $ says that it will. So how long will 2-10 days take lol? I get the impression that they were really trying to move the ht units with this sale, but of course that's the most expensive version with the least discount %.
But I missed it, so when they reached out with the $20 coupon I bought a plain ti version 5 so I would have a working unit whenever my other unit was being serviced, you guys know that drill very well. Well I finally got my little air compressor together with my green hopper, and whaddaya know it works! Damn if I didn't think it was a stalling tactic at the time, but I got it humming really well. So now I have bluetak and deoxit on the way to hopefully help keep it that way. I hope hopper labs eventually makes us all happy.
It works very well actually, wispy on 3.5 but vapor as thick as I want it at setting 4. The front end still gets hot as hell and clogs too easily. I will get another front end so I always have one soaking, and would pay extra for a slightly longer version with some cooling baffles or something inside. Not a quibble.
So that made my week. Who wants to bet that my new unit ships this week or not? When I ordered it said 2-10 days for the plain ti, working days that means it should start moving this week. I really hope it doesn't turn into another stupid situation like all the broken promises of my og unit, but I suppose the smart $ says that it will. So how long will 2-10 days take lol? I get the impression that they were really trying to move the ht units with this sale, but of course that's the most expensive version with the least discount %.
MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
My 2x Ti RMA's have landed home. Lodged Nov 21st 2017, arrived @HL Dec 28th 2017, received Jan 21st 2019
They neglected to engrave my units, which might be because I never ended up paying the correct amount for it (their error with free postage/custom code to subsidise for a postage fee I didn't end up spending).
It could be that the designs I sent through were too complex so they just noped out of it.
Or it could be they simply forgot. I did request them to be sent back ASAP 3 days before they were posted.
What's most annoying about that is that they basically told me they were ready to ship back in Oct/Nov after receiving this message in August
Despite that, another down side to be aware of for those waiting on RMA, they came back quite filthy. The front ends were fine, and there was no off-gassing from the herb chamber (tested with a few dry and empty tokes. No off flavour, plenty of heat). But, the back end threads and brass terminal were caked in some gross looking dirt.
The PCBs are not the latest revision, and the back-ends still require the double click once they've timed out to power them back up.
I sent them off without batteries or front ends, and I got back a couple of GHB1s in both units, plus my additional 3 GHB2s from my order. One GHB1 has the word "good" written on it, the other is missing large amounts of print from the wrapper. Not too sure how good either batt will be, both were drained on arrival. I'll give them a charge and see how they perform in due time.
The blue unit seems like it's going to rip. Loads of heat, good heat up time.
The Ti unit (note, I self anodised the PFE with a gas torch, super easy) is more iffy. But, a fresher battery and a blue-tack on the filthy back-end has halved the heat up time from 13s to 6s. I don't have high expectations from this unit long term.
It seems very similar to the last time I got them back in 2017, when Ti ended up outlasting the blue (not what I expected).
The RMA experience remains to be sub par, but I'm happy to have them back even in this state.
Both units have vaporised residue in the PFEs (empty chamber, heat on max) so there's at least that. I know I've got some very enjoyable multi-hopping sessions on the horizon.
Will be testing with packed chambers a bit later on.
edit: can confirm, the blue is back to it's classic self. Just had a fairly epic round of T4 hits, which got evidently warmer than my HT unit at T5. I feel like I just got a solid 225 hit at T4 so I'll just leave the dial there for a bit I think. 10/10, the kinda hit that makes me happy to be a hopper owner even through all the bullshit.
on to the Ti, well, this one is showing a symptom from years back where it takes a long time to heat up, the heat comes fast and proper, then it just dwindles and the cloud turns to a whisp
It's interesting witnessing the algorithms and logic at work - but the ones in this Ti aren't crash hot.
Still, two nice hits so far at T5 and the effects are great. But, without the same components as my new unit, it just isn't too similar. The Blue is at least similar in function to the new one (besides the switch), but it's hotter. So, that at least is a jackpot for me, for the time being
They neglected to engrave my units, which might be because I never ended up paying the correct amount for it (their error with free postage/custom code to subsidise for a postage fee I didn't end up spending).
It could be that the designs I sent through were too complex so they just noped out of it.
Or it could be they simply forgot. I did request them to be sent back ASAP 3 days before they were posted.
What's most annoying about that is that they basically told me they were ready to ship back in Oct/Nov after receiving this message in August
Despite that, another down side to be aware of for those waiting on RMA, they came back quite filthy. The front ends were fine, and there was no off-gassing from the herb chamber (tested with a few dry and empty tokes. No off flavour, plenty of heat). But, the back end threads and brass terminal were caked in some gross looking dirt.
The PCBs are not the latest revision, and the back-ends still require the double click once they've timed out to power them back up.
I sent them off without batteries or front ends, and I got back a couple of GHB1s in both units, plus my additional 3 GHB2s from my order. One GHB1 has the word "good" written on it, the other is missing large amounts of print from the wrapper. Not too sure how good either batt will be, both were drained on arrival. I'll give them a charge and see how they perform in due time.
The blue unit seems like it's going to rip. Loads of heat, good heat up time.
The Ti unit (note, I self anodised the PFE with a gas torch, super easy) is more iffy. But, a fresher battery and a blue-tack on the filthy back-end has halved the heat up time from 13s to 6s. I don't have high expectations from this unit long term.
It seems very similar to the last time I got them back in 2017, when Ti ended up outlasting the blue (not what I expected).
The RMA experience remains to be sub par, but I'm happy to have them back even in this state.
Both units have vaporised residue in the PFEs (empty chamber, heat on max) so there's at least that. I know I've got some very enjoyable multi-hopping sessions on the horizon.
Will be testing with packed chambers a bit later on.
edit: can confirm, the blue is back to it's classic self. Just had a fairly epic round of T4 hits, which got evidently warmer than my HT unit at T5. I feel like I just got a solid 225 hit at T4 so I'll just leave the dial there for a bit I think. 10/10, the kinda hit that makes me happy to be a hopper owner even through all the bullshit.
on to the Ti, well, this one is showing a symptom from years back where it takes a long time to heat up, the heat comes fast and proper, then it just dwindles and the cloud turns to a whisp
It's interesting witnessing the algorithms and logic at work - but the ones in this Ti aren't crash hot.
Still, two nice hits so far at T5 and the effects are great. But, without the same components as my new unit, it just isn't too similar. The Blue is at least similar in function to the new one (besides the switch), but it's hotter. So, that at least is a jackpot for me, for the time being
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Cheesequake
Free Men Don't Ask
Received this last night. Guess I'll send it in since it's just a paperweight at this point anyway. 
