Discontinued The Grasshopper

[biohacker]

According to my Nitecore d4 manual, there is more to it than just mA? If there are 3 or 4 batteries installed, it defaults to 375mA, but if 1 or 2 are inserted, it's 750mA. HOWEVER, it states that for charging smaller capacity batteries, a low current is recommended and there is actually a "low mode". This is all greek to me, so I just keep them all at "low" from now on, and maybe will wait until I need to charge 3 or 4 at a time.

 

[MoltenTiger]

According to my Nitecore d4 manual, there is more to it than just mA? If there are 3 or 4 batteries installed, it defaults to 375mA, but if 1 or 2 are inserted, it's 750mA. HOWEVER, it states that for charging smaller capacity batteries, a low current is recommended and there is actually a "low mode". This is all greek to me, so I just keep them all at "low" from now on, and maybe will wait until I need to charge 3 or 4 at a time.

Yeah the D4 is the problem model. Well, it's not so much problematic than it is undesirable but deal-with-able. Charging <3 batts means you will have to select the charge rate (I've heard every time a battery is inserted, not sure if that's the case) charging 3 or 4 means the charger will select a slower than ideal rate. This will take longer to get a battery charged, however it will be marginally better for the batteries health. (500/750 = 67%, 375/750 = 50% so the health benefits aren't worth as much as the increase in charge operation time between the options of 375 or 500mA compared to 750mA, however the D4 is only good for 375

I'm pretty sure I'm spewing more greek at you haha, sorry mate

 

[m0sh]

The UM20 is an okay choice.

I think it's likely you'll have to manually select charge rate when you insert a battery.
The screen info is somewhat useless, you would want a multimeter to get any meaningful data. Some that show capacity are okay. The general size is already bigger than the Xtar MC2, plus with the screen it makes it a big chunka.

Up to you.

I've been using my Xtar for months and months, lost count. I wouldn't bother with anything else, unless extra info was something I was interested in.

I've never tried the Nitecore, but with the Xtar, the custom size of the GH battery is fine, they sit flush and have ample connection either side. Only fall out if the charger is dropped from a height.

Hi dude.
Let me start by saying, I am not for the US or Europe, therefore, I am limited to what I can find.
Add that, my friend is a medical patience and just stopped combusting 2 days ago as he got it.
In order to quite, he needs to be able to use it all day, and right now he can't really...therefore, I had to find a solution for today.
If UM20 is ok, then we are doing good.
I see it has either 1000MA or 500MA.
On the i4 I can see that there's a button to switch from 750 to 1500.

ANYWAY, my friend already bought the um20.


EDIT: I'm not seeing the 500ma option at all ... so the only way would be to use the PC , or it is still too much?

EDIT2 : LOL, I don't know why, but my friend connected it to a car charger and its not working anymore....................LOL

 

[MoltenTiger]

Hi dude.
Let me start by saying, I am not for the US or Europe, therefore, I am limited to what I can find.
Add that, my friend is a medical patience and just stopped combusting 2 days ago as he got it.
In order to quite, he needs to be able to use it all day, and right now he can't really...therefore, I had to find a solution for today.
If UM20 is ok, then we are doing good.
I see it has either 1000MA or 500MA.
On the i4 I can see that there's a button to switch from 750 to 1500.

ANYWAY, my friend already bought the um20.

That is understandable, I am from Australia, and so can relate.
All this stuff is out of China, so I'm not actually terribly situated. Shenzhen is where you want your stuff made, Xtar will always be my recommendation

With the UM20, it has automatic rate selection, I would avoid this product because it will more than likely degrade your batteries. If you are international, you won't want to be buying batteries more often than needed.

The UM20 might select 500mA, and then it would be a really nice charger for our usage. However, if the batteries are charging in 45mins not 1hr+ then it is an expensive decision to continue using the charger.

 

[moondog]

Yeah the D4 is the problem model. Well, it's not so much problematic than it is undesirable but deal-with-able. Charging <3 batts means you will have to select the charge rate (I've heard every time a battery is inserted, not sure if that's the case) charging 3 or 4 means the charger will select a slower than ideal rate. This will take longer to get a battery charged, however it will be marginally better for the batteries health. (500/750 = 67%, 375/500 = 75% so the health benefits aren't worth as much as the increase in charge operation time between the options of 375 or 500mA, however the D4 is only good for 375

I'm pretty sure I'm spewing more greek at you haha, sorry mate

My eyes start to glaze over if I try to read this stuff too closely. When you say "slower than ideal rate" are you saying that it's possible to charge at too slow a rate and that this will damage the batteries? Or just that the low charge rates with 3 or more batteries will take longer?

All I know is, I have a D4 and it seems real simple to me. You put in a battery, you press and hold the lower button until you see the "Low" indicator, you walk away. Come back later, the battery is charged. I have 5 GHB2 batteries and my usage pattern is such that it doesn't matter to me if it takes a long time for batteries to charge.

 

[Baron23]

I haven't tried kief in the hopper and probably never will. Too paranoid about it falling through the screen into the heater. But I have sprinkled some on top of a load in my Vapor Brothers bowl and it does give a nice turbo boost to the effects. In particular, I have noticed a lot more body rushes after a mixed bowl.

I am REALLY careful with my herb vapes, particularly my GH, and tend to use concentrate and herb in separate devices (just too much chance of getting goo everywhere).

With that said, I have found that filling the GH chamber half full, putting a small layer of pollen in, then topping off with herb has worked wonderfully and not a bit of mess left behind. I don't think I want to put any shatter in there, but the pollen (keif) just seems to melt vape with the herb and melt into it. No issues with this at all.

If still concerned, a small layer of degummed hemp fiber in the bottom of the chamber works well as a filter.

Also, I use a D4 and yes, single GH battery in there it defaults to 750ma charge rate and yes, this can be manually selected to 375ma, I believe.

I have only used the "low" setting once as 750ma isn't really all that much current and hasn't seemed to impact my batteries at all.

Many wall warts have 1 and 2 amp outputs but we aren't using wall warts directly and our battery chargers are regulated to a great degree.

I'm not poo-pooing anyone's efforts to conserve their battery life, but for me the charge rate out of a D4 is not a concern.

 

[MoltenTiger]

My eyes start to glaze over if I try to read this stuff too closely. When you say "slower than ideal rate" are you saying that it's possible to charge at too slow a rate and that this will damage the batteries? Or just that the low charge rates with 3 or more batteries will take longer?

What I was trying to say, and I've gone back and changed the numbers in attempt to make some sense (what a dream!) was that the difference between 375 and 500mA is minimal, more so all things considered. And so given the choice, a 0.5A charge rate is relatively better because it's faster whilst still being relatively 'good' for the battery compared to exceeding the default charge rate.

 

[biohacker]

All I know is, I have a D4 and it seems real simple to me. You put in a battery, you press and hold the lower button until you see the "Low" indicator, you walk away. Come back later, the battery is charged. I have 5 GHB2 batteries and my usage pattern is such that it doesn't matter to me if it takes a long time for batteries to charge.

Yep, agreed! Pretty sure it just takes longer, and is not worse for your battery health, just not "much" better. I haven't been using "low" and my batteries all seem to still kick ass, and I have no idea what the charging habits were of the two previous owners, although I know that they didn't use the stock oem usb charger because they were brand spanking new.

 

[MoltenTiger]

Yep, agreed! Pretty sure it just takes longer, and is not worse for your battery health, just not "much" better. I haven't been using "low" and my batteries all seem to still kick ass, and I have no idea what the charging habits were of the two previous owners, although I know that they didn't use the stock oem usb charger because they were brand spanking new.

I think technically it is better for the battery, although it is marginally a longer wait
The only reason I rep the Xtar so much is because for a new customer, negating the button press and having batteries ready sooner are buying points worth considering.
I can see how it is such a minor inconvenience as to be entirely negligible - but I prefer no inconvenience over anything, even slight

Also, after looking over either companies websites, I much prefer Xtar because the info they have on their website is impressive compared to rehashed uninteresting spiels. I'm sure to a normal person it's all uninteresting though

It's interesting to consider a couple of info points via the Xtar site. The recommended operation temperature for batteries is from 0ºC to 60ºC (where I would imagine a lot of the US conditions fall below this atm) and the optimum state of charge for storage is 40% or lower. I think it's interesting that the GH is unable to produce a battery that is optimum for storage, and so all vacant batteries are degrading constantly.

 

[Icon13]

I believe Nitecores must be selected to charge at this rate, and not doing so kills batteries (which aren't covered under any warranty)

Charging at too high of a rate can decrease battery longevity. However charging at 1Ah (1000mAh) will not hurt the batteries. I used to work for a lithium battery manufacturer. It is not uncommon to charge lithium batteries at this rate. It would be far more Troublesome if the Chargers actually charged the batteries to 100% completely full. My Nitecore charger has a voltage cut off of 4.15V, so it actually never charges the battery to 4.2V, which is good for battery longevity. Also, it is most likely that these Chargers slow down the rate of charge as the battery approaches it's full state. This is also good for battery longevity.

 

[biohacker]

the optimum state of charge for storage is 40% or lower.

You should never store li-ion batteries too low, so one needs to be careful with the 40% (or lower).... I've seen references to 40% and 40%-60% for best storage, but definitely not low or high. If I was storing the GH batteries, i'd charge them up to full, then crush a bowl, check on the nitecore display, and if around 50% i'd store it like that. But if there is a better way, i'm all ears.

However charging at 1Ah (1000mAh) will not hurt the batteries. I used to work for a lithium battery manufacturer. It is not uncommon to charge lithium batteries at this rate. It would be far more Troublesome if the Chargers actually charged the batteries to 100% completely full. My Nitecore charger has a voltage cut off of 4.15V, so it actually never charges the battery to 4.2V, which is good for battery longevity.

So you're saying that there is really no real need for me to use the "low" mode on my Nitecore? 750 and giv'er? I'd like that, especially since i'm not too concerned about longevity since they are relatively inexpensive batteries. And i've seen 4.2v on my nitecore....is it still cutting off at 4.15v but shows 4.2?

I also very rarely, if ever see the blinking red low battery leds... I usually crush a bowl or two, sometimes 3 and charge.

 

[MoltenTiger]

Charging at too high of a rate can decrease battery longevity. However charging at 1Ah (1000mAh) will not hurt the batteries. I used to work for a lithium battery manufacturer. It is not uncommon to charge lithium batteries at this rate. It would be far more Troublesome if the Chargers actually charged the batteries to 100% completely full. My Nitecore charger has a voltage cut off of 4.15V, so it actually never charges the battery to 4.2V, which is good for battery longevity. Also, it is most likely that these Chargers slow down the rate of charge as the battery approaches it's full state. This is also good for battery longevity.

Would the GH cell size of 750mAh (though GHB1s measured average was closer to 600mAh) be more susceptible to degradation induced performance loss than the average battery? 750mAh seems quite small for a rechargeable Li-ion

I did say amongst my spiels that high-rate charging isn't problematic but more so an undesirable thing to do, especially given that HL have reported improper use with a third party charger prematurely killed an allotment of batteries

You should never store li-ion batteries too low, so one needs to be careful with the 40% (or lower).... I've seen references to 40% and 40%-60% for best storage, but definitely not low or high. If I was storing the GH batteries, i'd charge them up to full, then crush a bowl, check on the nitecore display, and if around 50% i'd store it like that. But if there is a better way, i'm all ears.


So you're saying that there is really no real need for me to use the "low" mode on my Nitecore? 750 and giv'er? I'd like that, especially since i'm not too concerned about longevity since they are relatively inexpensive batteries. And i've seen 4.2v on my nitecore....is it still cutting off at 4.15v but shows 4.2?

Well, Li-ion continues to discharge even when it's not in use. So very long term storage can induce deep cycles on batteries and extended storage can cause deep discharge which is very unhealthy for a battery.
60% (flashing red lights on the hopper) is an acceptable level for long term storage, though it will be using up finite charge cycles

http://www.xtar.cc/news_detail/newsId=112.html

I also very rarely, if ever see the blinking red low battery leds... I usually crush a bowl or two, sometimes 3 and charge.

I think this is the best way to go; guarantees the biggest and best hits, and reduces the charge cycle taken up in the charging process. It works out for the user and is good practice for memory free Li-ion

 

[tubasco]

I'd just like to add that I exclusively use a Nitecore d4, and when I charge more than 2 batteries at a time AND set it to "low," it charges at a rate of 150mAh. You can mix and match battery types, so if I only have two hopper batts that need to charge, I add one or two AA eneloops to have the ability to drop the charge rate to 150mAh. If I only charge the two hopper batts and set it to "low" then the rate is 300mAh.

It also came with a car lighter adapter for on the go charging.

 

[biohacker]

60% (flashing red lights on the hopper) is an acceptable level for long term storage, though it will be using up finite charge cycles

ok thanks, I didn't know this...I thought flashing red meant that they were DEAD...within safety. I suppose that safety margin is larger than I thought! Figured there would be maybe 5% power left. So if flashing is at 60% full....why? Isn't it overkill for safety? Why not get a another bowl out of it?

 

[MoltenTiger]

ok thanks, I didn't know this...I thought flashing red meant that they were DEAD...within safety. I suppose that safety margin is larger than I thought! Figured there would be maybe 5% power left. So if flashing is at 60% full....why? Isn't it overkill for safety? Why not get a another bowl out of it?

to be true, I've never actually tested to arrive at a 60% figure that is totally hearsay.
My knowledge of electronics is useless, but I think it has a lot to do with sustaining a ~12A draw to achieve the 45W heater peak. V x A = W. So with the max capacity 4.20V and the operating 3.7V rating some crazy juju goes down and vapour is made.
Once the battery operating voltage drops to 3.6V the hopper flashes red lights (I think). Other appliances might run the batteries lower than 3.6, say 3.4 or 3.5 and then the capacity percentage is lower and short term storage is better (perhaps the discharge rate is lowest at the 40% capacity mark).
I'm really not too sure, it is confusing

 

[Icon13]

You should never store li-ion batteries too low, so one needs to be careful with the 40% (or lower).... I've seen references to 40% and 40%-60% for best storage, but definitely not low or high. If I was storing the GH batteries, i'd charge them up to full, then crush a bowl, check on the nitecore display, and if around 50% i'd store it like that. But if there is a better way, i'm all ears.



So you're saying that there is really no real need for me to use the "low" mode on my Nitecore? 750 and giv'er? I'd like that, especially since i'm not too concerned about longevity since they are relatively inexpensive batteries. And i've seen 4.2v on my nitecore....is it still cutting off at 4.15v but shows 4.2?

I also very rarely, if ever see the blinking red low battery leds... I usually crush a bowl or two, sometimes 3 and charge.

That's interesting. We probably have different models of Nitecore Chargers. Mine always come off the charger at 4.15V. Mine is a UM20. No, I am not absolutely positive that it slows down to a trickle charge at the end, however I do know that it doesn't go to 4.2 V. I noticed when charging they stay around 97% a bit longer until they reach 100% which is 4.15 V.

I think that not charging to the absolute fullest voltage, and trickle charging towards the end of a full charge is more important than 1 Ah vs 500 mAh as neither one is really considered that high of a charge rate anyways. Would you notice a difference in longevity? I'm not completely sure but I'd say it wouldn't make too big of a difference.

Also, one of our cars is a Nissan Leaf. I'm pretty sure they are equipped with battery packs that are made entirely out of 18650 lithium ion magnesium of some sort. My home charger has a maximum charge rate of 240 volts at 30 amps. So yeah, I'm pretty sure one amp hour is just fine.

 

[moondog]

That's interesting. We probably have different models of Nitecore Chargers. Mine always come off the charger at 4.15V. Mine is a UM20. No, I am not absolutely positive that it slows down to a trickle charge at the end, however I do know that it doesn't go to 4.2 V. I noticed when charging they stay around 97% a bit longer until they reach 100% which is 4.15 V.

I think that not charging to the absolute fullest voltage, and trickle charging towards the end of a full charge is more important than 1 Ah vs 500 mAh as neither one is really considered that high of a charge rate anyways. Would you notice a difference in longevity? I'm not completely sure but I'd say it wouldn't make too big of a difference.

Also, one of our cars is a Nissan Leaf. I'm pretty sure they are equipped with battery packs that are made entirely out of 18650 lithium ion magnesium of some sort. My home charger has a maximum charge rate of 240 volts at 30 amps. So yeah, I'm pretty sure one amp hour is just fine.

I'm pretty sure that I noticed today that the rate of charging on my D4 did slow down as the batteries reached full.

 

[shaolinmilk]

After a year of waiting (nowhere near as long as the early adopters), my grasshopper has finally shipped! I can't wait to test this bad boy out and see what all the fuss is about.

 

[mio4me]

Would the GH cell size of 750mAh (though GHB1s measured average was closer to 600mAh) be more susceptible to degradation induced performance loss than the average battery? 750mAh seems quite small for a rechargeable Li-ion

I did say amongst my spiels that high-rate charging isn't problematic but more so an undesirable thing to do, especially given that HL have reported improper use with a third party charger prematurely killed an allotment of batteries

Well, Li-ion continues to discharge even when it's not in use. So very long term storage can induce deep cycles on batteries and extended storage can cause deep discharge which is very unhealthy for a battery.
60% (flashing red lights on the hopper) is an acceptable level for long term storage, though it will be using up finite charge cycles

http://www.xtar.cc/news_detail/newsId=112.html


I think this is the best way to go; guarantees the biggest and best hits, and reduces the charge cycle taken up in the charging process. It works out for the user and is good practice for memory free Li-ion

On my GH, when I get the red LEDs flashing, the device turns off very soon. No 60% left, I am sure.
Together with my problems with the flashing blue LED's and the limited capacity/range, is this a symptom of malfunction or battery damage? What do you think?

 

[Mr. Me2]

On my GH, when I get the red LEDs flashing, the device turns off very soon. No 60% left, I am sure.
Together with my problems with the flashing blue LED's and the limited capacity/range, is this a symptom of malfunction or battery damage? What do you think?

I don't think so. Just a weak battery, I think. Mine behaves pretty much the same. I have new batteries on the way. We'll see if that changes anything.

Plus, thanks to whoever posted recently about cleaning threads. I think I'm due...

 

[MoltenTiger]

On my GH, when I get the red LEDs flashing, the device turns off very soon. No 60% left, I am sure.
Together with my problems with the flashing blue LED's and the limited capacity/range, is this a symptom of malfunction or battery damage? What do you think?

The device turns off, but the power cell isn't fully deplete, eg. you can click it back on and send power to the LEDs. It's the same with any device safely incorporating Li-ion cells.
60% is seemingly a large capacity to call it spent at, however due to the amperage going up as the voltage decreases it's best to call it quits at a 12.5A, perhaps.

60% might be a wrong figure. Who knows? My charger doesn't tell me.

I've just found out that my previous charger had a charge rate of 1A. All of my dead batteries had many cycles at 1000mA in their short lived heyday. So far, 2.5 months in, my GHB2s are still running the same as ever always charged at 0.25 or 0.5A. Too early to say for certain if a fast rate is really that bad but it seems worthwhile keeping it default to me, though 45 min charge times were great.

 

[huk_huk]

all this battery talk made me order more batteries. Someone of you happen to know if it's still necessary to write a Email to let them know that it's a battery only order? They used to handle it like that.


Don't the original charger can charge with up to 2A depending on the walladapter? My walladapter is 5V/2A not sure if it uses the whole current. But the official charger is faster than my external Nitecore for sure

 

[Icon13]

all this battery talk made me order more batteries. Someone of you happen to know if it's still necessary to write a Email to let them know that it's a battery only order? They used to handle it like that.


Don't the original charger can charge with up to 2A depending on the walladapter? My walladapter is 5V/2A not sure if it uses the whole current. But the official charger is faster than my external Nitecore for sure

As far as I can tell it does not matter what the power supply output is, recharge rate is limited. I have a small device that has USB pass-through and lets you know how much power is being drawn. My Hopper is in for a warranty and I don't remember what the exact number was but it was under 1 amp and seem to be trickle charging because the display on the LCD kept going down and up, down and up over and over again. I tried it on a 1 amp, a 2 amp, and into a Qualcomm 2.0 fast charger as well. They were all the same.

Also, I never wanted to mention this before because I never wanted anybody to feel like I was throwing their eBay business under the bus. However, as it has been stated in this thread there are no more Grasshoppers on eBay. Hopper Labs Dirty Little Secret was that they would sell you a slightly cosmetically damaged, and I mean small, unit and you would not get a price break, but they would ship it to you immediately. I paid the extra $50 for a cosmetically blemished unit that I bought on eBay. Hopefully if you have been waiting a while and you don't want to wait anymore you can contact Hopper labs and they will still have some of these units available. The odds are you will need a warranty request and receive a new body in the future anyways. It was totally worth the $50 since I pre-ordered in September of 2016.

 

[slick]

I've got about 3 grams of kief from a few years of sitting at the bottom of my grinder.

Don't let it go too too long, it's got a finite shelf life.

Did I read someone mention a magnetic lock for the front end? It was that just a wish list item?

 

[beiberhole69]

Not sure if everyone saying that "having to pay for return parts should be on Hopper's bill" is a newb to vaping or what but no company that I can think of offers this. Otherwise they'd become a cleaning service for us lazy folk.

when you file an rma with Epic Vape for an enano they send you a postage sticker to print out. And it should 100 percent be on every company to pay for return shipping. The reason is because it is totally tax deductible as a business expense for them.