Discontinued The Grasshopper

H

Hawk

Well-Known Member
JoeMama said:
@Icon13 and @Hawk , I do not know nearly as much as you guys about batteries and although I are an engineer, radio frequency is my thing.... Just as it's been said, via Ohm's Law, I just don't know how 12A can be packed into that little battery. So as you've bespoken about Discharge Rates, etc, I'm making the Divine Assumption that, "If it works, it works". :uhh:

It's difficult to imagine that they would choose a battery for the sake of propriety; but rather, that the battery was one of the top two "knowns" (the other being the 3D printed heater) of the design that made it all possible.

I wonder if it's possible that, because of the "aeronautic engineering" background of one of the founders, they came upon knowledge of obscure non-commercial-market batteries?

I can imagine that they came upon the concept of the hopper after having seen it in action in their previous field of engineering, albeit in a different form factor. I don't know, some miniature heating function on a portable device requiring temp control. One of 'em was a stoner, and, Voila!
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Your absolutely correct. I am in no way saying they don't know what they are doing and using the wrong battery or anything like that. Obviously it works or we would have batteries venting left and right. Its just I am trying to understand how they are doing it. I am almost 95% positive that there is no battery of that size that can handle 12-15A. And if there is its got to be right at its limit. And I am sure they are not fudging when they say its a 45W heater (at least we assume they are not). Its just I am baffled right now and I am trying to understand how they are pulling it off because I am very inquisitive about these things and its driving me a little crazy. :hmm:

But then again they do seem to be failing big time.
 
JoeMama

JoeMama

Well-Known Member
Hawk said:
Your absolutely correct. I am in no way saying they don't know what they are doing and using the wrong battery or anything like that. Obviously it works or we would have batteries venting left and right. Its just I am trying to understand how they are doing it. I am almost 95% positive that there is no battery of that size that can handle 12-15A. And if there is its got to be right at its limit. And I am sure they are not fudging when they say its a 45W heater (at least we assume they are not). Its just I am baffled right now and I am trying to understand how they are pulling it off because I am very inquisitive about these things and its driving me a little crazy. :hmm:

But then again they do seem to be failing big time.
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Agreed, Hawk... Between what must be a very special technology in that heater, along with the smallest battery that must have uniquely qualified for the purpose of the pen design, they're working some magic there.

I think the failures may be a combination of repeatability of the manufacture of the heater, and a battery with its own manufacturing repeatability. While they can aspire towards building a repeatable unit, they don't have control over the battery technology. Like everything these days, tech is ever the slave to the power source available to its needs.
 
945

945

Member
Hawk said:
Your absolutely correct. I am in no way saying they don't know what they are doing and using the wrong battery or anything like that. Obviously it works or we would have batteries venting left and right. Its just I am trying to understand how they are doing it. I am almost 95% positive that there is no battery of that size that can handle 12-15A. And if there is its got to be right at its limit. And I am sure they are not fudging when they say its a 45W heater (at least we assume they are not). Its just I am baffled right now and I am trying to understand how they are pulling it off because I am very inquisitive about these things and its driving me a little crazy. :hmm:

But then again they do seem to be failing big time.
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they say it's a 45watt heater but nowhere does it say it can use it's full 45 watts maybe its over rated to avoid failiure
does temp 5 draw 45 watts and in this a continues feed or is it pulsing
 
945,
Elac

Elac

Silly rabbit trips are for kids
For those wondering how an 18650 can discharge @ 15a or greater, check this page:
http://www.kritikalmass.net/battery-calculator
Scroll down to where it says "Chart of C ratings vs size" and read from there.

*edit: If @Joel W. could put a multimeter in series with his pack and take a reading of the amps drawn we could figure what maximum wattage the Grasshopper element uses.
 
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Mr. Me2

Mr. Me2

Well-Known Member
Since there is this gh battery discussion going on, can you experts confirm that all of these batteries have an "opening" on the positive side nipple? I just noticed it on (at least) 2 of mine. At first when I saw it on one of them, I thought the battery had blown. Then I saw it on a second one.

Is this a standard characteristic of li-on batteries? Is it part of the design for venting?

Curious minds want to know (even though, admittedly, a lot of your technical talk goes over my head...).
 
Mr. Me2,
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vapviking

vapviking

Old & In the Way
Mr. Me2 said:
Since there is this gh battery discussion going on, can you experts confirm that all of these batteries have an "opening" on the positive side nipple? I just noticed it on (at least) 2 of mine. At first when I saw it on one of them, I thought the battery had blown. Then I saw it on a second one.

Is this a standard characteristic of li-on batteries? Is it part of the design for venting?

Curious minds want to know (even though, admittedly, a lot of your technical talk goes over my head...).
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all 7 of my batteries have the little hole on the edge of the positive terminal.
 
vapviking,
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H

Hawk

Well-Known Member
Mr. Me2 said:
Since there is this gh battery discussion going on, can you experts confirm that all of these batteries have an "opening" on the positive side nipple? I just noticed it on (at least) 2 of mine. At first when I saw it on one of them, I thought the battery had blown. Then I saw it on a second one.

Is this a standard characteristic of li-on batteries? Is it part of the design for venting?

Curious minds want to know (even though, admittedly, a lot of your technical talk goes over my head...).
Click to expand...


Yes they do. This is most likely for venting reasons. Instead of a battery exploding when to much amps are drawn it will vent easily through those holes.
 
jabba

jabba

Well-Known Member
Does anyone remember what shipper and method Hopper Labs uses to return warranty repaired Grasshoppers? I'm trying to predict my delivery date.
 
Icon13

Icon13

Serial Vapist
Batteries tend to swell when under high and/or extensive stress. The vents are to prevent swelling which can cause the battery to explode if the gases had no way to exhaust.

Also, anybody with a charger that is tearing the PVC wrap on the battery should should consider buying a new charger. I have seen this issue on various models due to the specs being slightly wrong. Obviously the factory either doesn't care, or they just don't test their products in real world usage. I have seen Chargers get recalled for this. The batteries can swell and Catch Fire.

If you are too cheap or too negligent to buy a new charger, be very careful when putting the batteries in and taking them out of the charger. Make sure you avoid any damage to the PVC wrap because the entire shell around the battery cell is also a negative terminal.
 
F

fogbank

Well-Known Member
voodoo_vape said:
Have you checked the actual invoice in the system? My order was a Jan'16 one and they have put me down as March'16 as I found out today, probably this was done due to the fact that I added ONE! Ti unit, although they had guaranteed to me that I wouldn't be taken back..
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I think the "March 2016" on the invoice just represents the original estimated ship date. I also pre-ordered in Jan. 2016 and my invoice says "March 2016" on it, but that was the original estimated ship date on my pre-order.

JoeMama said:
Had an interesting observation tonite:

I just got a few more batteries from HL. I decided for some reason to check them in the hopper. But before doing so, checked the battery level in my UM20. They were all at least 97%. Fine.

So I screwed them in one at a time, and sonofabitch, one of the batteries (just one) wouldn't kick the hopper into any status. Dead. Take it out, check on the Nitecore, it says 97%. Put it back in, click it, and nothing!

Has this happened to anyone?!?
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I also observed that the one battery that I ordered which did not work in the Hopper initially has more of the negative terminal obscured by the wrapping, just like the picture @JoeMama posted.
 
MoltenTiger

MoltenTiger

Well-Known Member
https://www.reddit.com/r/GrassHoppe...er_ghb1_battery_750mah_bench_test_resultsan/?

Most informative post on r/GHV. Knowledgable eCig battery whiz Mooch tests a batch of GHB1 batteries.

In the comments he queries that the hopper is the only device using these batteries, which explains the variance in performance/specs.

You won't find a similar sized battery the same as the GHB1. That is why HL went the proprietary route.
 
J

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
Elac said:
For those wondering how an 18650 can discharge @ 15a or greater, check this page:
http://www.kritikalmass.net/battery-calculator
Scroll down to where it says "Chart of C ratings vs size" and read from there.

*edit: If @Joel W. could put a multimeter in series with his pack and take a reading of the amps drawn we could figure what maximum wattage the Grasshopper element uses.
Click to expand...

5.6 amps on startup (level 5 heat) was the highest number seen.. It ran much less amps, once it was warm.
 
J

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
J

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
Hippie Dickie said:
makes sense, it is a very fast heater ... mine takes about 7 seconds full power at startup
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I think it lends some evidence that temp stepping may be easier on the batteries/hopper, if anything. Starting out cold on level 5 may not be in my best interest?

I need to retest this more, before saying this, I guess

edit: It went to 5.6 amp even at at level 2, basically the same.
 
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herbivore21

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
I have definitely noticed different performance with different batteries in my hopper (some last much, much longer than others!) and this is consistent with the reddit guys conclusion that these batteries have not been tested and then binned according to their test results as most batteries are. This is not a battery used in other products which means that the batteries which were lower performers may not be up to par and would be difficult to sell if labelled and retailed as such.

This could be a decision taken to keep costs overall down.

IMHO, if this is the case, this is a very bad decision. Only the high/adequate quality batteries should be retailed at a cost that takes into account the expense of disposing of/recycling those batteries which do not make the cut. There is no sense in selling a ground-breaking product with inconsistent and in some cases, inadequate energy sources!
 
YaFreekin Right

YaFreekin Right

Well-Known Member
Hippie Dickie said:
are you sure? kind of depends on how soon they activate the PWM algorithm after start up ... full power for several seconds then start PWM to maintain the desire temp.

hey @Joel W. - how long did you see 5.6A?
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The reason I'm pretty sure is there is no way those batteries can sustain >10A. It's likely that they always PWM for control even from the cold start. This way they can account for changes in voltage & starting temp of the heater.

herbivore21 said:
I have definitely noticed different performance with different batteries in my hopper (some last much, much longer than others!) and this is consistent with the reddit guys conclusion that these batteries have not been tested and then binned according to their test results as most batteries are. This is not a battery used in other products which means that the batteries which were lower performers may not be up to par and would be difficult to sell if labelled and retailed as such.

This could be a decision taken to keep costs overall down.

IMHO, if this is the case, this is a very bad decision. Only the high/adequate quality batteries should be retailed at a cost that takes into account the expense of disposing of/recycling those batteries which do not make the cut. There is no sense in selling a ground-breaking product with inconsistent and in some cases, inadequate energy sources!
Click to expand...

For $7 I'm happy enough with the variability. I'd rather get 3 batteries for $21 with variable performance than 1 battery for $21 with performance that matches the best of the 3 batteries mentioned previously.

If you care enough , you could buy a battery analyzer and bin them yourself.
 
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