Discontinued The Grasshopper

[Pjake]

I ordered my GH in September 2015. I have had it for a few days now. Initial impressions are still good not great. Stealth factor and speed get top marks. Clouds are really pretty decent but damn is the vapor hot coming out. Negatively affects flavor imo. For portable clouds and flavor I'd probably say my crafty has the leg up. However the on demand hits and stealth of the hopper have made it my go to portable. I use an e-nano at home. The hopper doesn't quite reach those cloud levels and even through the same glass the e-nano crushes it in the flavor category. Bottom line: For actual portable use the GH is pretty damn cool. For home use I'll stick with my nano.

 

[Skywalker OG]

I ordered my GH in September 2015. I have had it for a few days now. Initial impressions are still good not great. Stealth factor and speed get top marks. Clouds are really pretty decent but damn is the vapor hot coming out. Negatively affects flavor imo. For portable clouds and flavor I'd probably say my crafty has the leg up. However the on demand hits and stealth of the hopper have made it my go to portable. I use an e-nano at home. The hopper doesn't quite reach those cloud levels and even through the same glass the e-nano crushes it in the flavor category. Bottom line: For actual portable use the GH is pretty damn cool. For home use I'll stick with my nano.

Have you tried the Hopper on 2-2.5? Never got anything nearly as tasty from my Crafty when I had one.

 

[Pjake]

Have you tried the Hopper on 2-2.5? Never got anything nearly as tasty from my Crafty when I had one.

I must be honest I have not. I never really vape at low temps. I'm more after the sedative effects achieved at high temps.

 

[Skywalker OG]

I must be honest I have not. I never really vape at low temps. I'm more after the sedative effects achieved at high temps.

Give it a try on 2.5 and rip it for as long as you can. Still get some really nice stony effects but the flavor isn't bad like it is up on 4.5-5. Anywhere over 4 for me and I don't really enjoy the flavor. I do my first rip or two on 2, move on to 3.5 and usually finish on 4-4.1. Flavor is absolutely incredible below 3, and even at 3 it's pretty good with some super dense vapor.

 

[ZC]

I don't know what the max current output of USB is, nor do I understand how 45 Watts is generated from a 4 Volt battery (12 Amps!?!), but if it's possible to drive the hopper with a USB source, then imagine a Dummy Battery that has a mini-USB socket at the top (in place of where the clicker is on a real backend).

Who knows, a little mechanical engineering with conductive metals and teflon cylinders and some 3D printing magic, and you can have a screw-in mini-USB battery adapter. Just plug it in with a USB cord to a good-duty USB charger-pack.

The short answer is it won't work. USB 2.0 is only rated for a few watts. USB 3.1 has the spec to carry up to 100w, but only at 20v 5A. Not only will you not find a port with that power around your house, but it won't work with the hopper without some sort of buck module between it bringing it back down to 3.7v.

Or, can someone explain how a 3.7V battery delivers 45 watts of heat?

Watts are easily found as volts x amps. So 3.7Volts x 12.16~Amps = 45watts.

This means that the hoppers battery is high-drain, likely rated for 15A continuous or above. Any power supply you plug into it needs to match these specs. If you go over the max 4.2v spec of the hopper you could damage it, as it will try to draw more than 45w. If your power supply has less than the required amps it could shut down or possibly damage itself. So you need a power supply that pretty much exactly matches the specs of the battery.

Something like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C9UUFHC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Paired with @Joel W. 's adaptor and a suitable power supply will give you a wall wart for the hopper.

 

[JoeMama]

The short answer is it won't work. USB 2.0 is only rated for a few watts. USB 3.1 has the spec to carry up to 100w, but only at 20v 5A. Not only will you not find a port with that power around your house, but it won't work with the hopper without some sort of buck module between it bringing it back down to 3.7v.



Watts are easily found as volts x amps. So 3.7Volts x 12.16~Amps = 45watts.

This means that the hoppers battery is high-drain, likely rated for 15A continuous or above. Any power supply you plug into it needs to match these specs. If you go over the max 4.2v spec of the hopper you could damage it, as it will try to draw more than 45w. If your power supply has less than the required amps it could shut down or possibly damage itself. So you need a power supply that pretty much exactly matches the specs of the battery.

Something like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C9UUFHC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Paired with @Joel W. 's adaptor and a suitable power supply will give you a wall wart for the hopper.

Ok great info, thank you, ZC.

I still enjoy the idea of an entire insert that only needs to be plugged in at the top - so not USB, but more appropriate connector (like a 5.5 mm barrel connector). The buck can be downstream at the plug, and the variable pot inline to dial in the current draw.

 

[demonscars]

I've had my plain Ti Hopper for a couple of days. So far I'm enjoying it. It + the Magic Flight orbiter is pretty magical. Love how stealthy it is. I don't have a lot of experience using portables, especially outside (live in a non-mmj state). I had a Pax (not v2) that I didn't like and sold. And I've used a MFLB a lot. Mostly I stick with my e-nano. But the past couple of days I've been real happy with the hopper. Even took it for a walk because it's so scentless.

 

[syrupy]

Early in the month, we met with our manufacturers to overcome issues with part shortages and implemented a new throughput management system to better meet the Grasshopper’s demand. With a record number of trained assembly technicians, we look forward to turning the flow of components into Grasshoppers. Below is the new building where Hoppers will be machined.

So did they switch manufacturers? Or did the existing one move? Either way, that... building*cough* shed... doesn't look like it's going to be producing much for a while...

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

The weirdest thing happened today. I got a package from Hopper Labs. I didn't even check the mail because it's Labor Day. I just noticed it in front of my door, who knows how long it was there. It was supposed to be delivered tomorrow.

Maybe the postal gods know what's up.

I didn't get the leather sleeve I ordered 50 weeks ago. No note or anything in the box to let me know it's out of stock. No packing slip or invoice of any kind.

First impressions of the titanium:

The lighter weight is immediately noticeable coming from the stainless steel model. It feels more like an actual pen, and more high tech at the same time.

The threading is not nearly as smooth as my SS model, on both the backend and mouthpiece.

The mouthpiece looks slightly scuffed or at least unpolished.

The temperature dial is noticeably smoother than my SS model.

The grid pattern is already present on the inside battery contact:

No flash

With flash

Sparkling clean and new with a grid pattern. I'm not worried about the grid pattern at all, but I will now have this photo for reference to see if it gets worse.

It should be a brand new batch but it doesn't have the two extra resistors or capacitors or whatever those components are. I'm not worried about that either, my SS doesn't have them and has been fine, but it seemed like a recent revision to the design.

 

[Hawk]

The short answer is it won't work. USB 2.0 is only rated for a few watts. USB 3.1 has the spec to carry up to 100w, but only at 20v 5A. Not only will you not find a port with that power around your house, but it won't work with the hopper without some sort of buck module between it bringing it back down to 3.7v.



Watts are easily found as volts x amps. So 3.7Volts x 12.16~Amps = 45watts.

This means that the hoppers battery is high-drain, likely rated for 15A continuous or above. Any power supply you plug into it needs to match these specs. If you go over the max 4.2v spec of the hopper you could damage it, as it will try to draw more than 45w. If your power supply has less than the required amps it could shut down or possibly damage itself. So you need a power supply that pretty much exactly matches the specs of the battery.

Something like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C9UUFHC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Paired with @Joel W. 's adaptor and a suitable power supply will give you a wall wart for the hopper.

I've said it before and I'll say it again there is no way these batteries can handle that many Amps. I have been e-cig/vaping for a very long time so have extensive knowledge when it comes to batteries and their specs. These batteries are just too small to be able to handle that amount of amps. You need to go to at least a 18500 just to get near 10A. Anything 10A and above needs at least a 18650.

I would love to be proven wrong and someone show me specs of another battery in similar size that can handle up to 15A but I am pretty sure they are not out there.

 

[btka]

I ordered my GH in September 2015. I have had it for a few days now. Initial impressions are still good not great. Stealth factor and speed get top marks. Clouds are really pretty decent but damn is the vapor hot coming out. Negatively affects flavor imo. For portable clouds and flavor I'd probably say my crafty has the leg up. However the on demand hits and stealth of the hopper have made it my go to portable. I use an e-nano at home. The hopper doesn't quite reach those cloud levels and even through the same glass the e-nano crushes it in the flavor category. Bottom line: For actual portable use the GH is pretty damn cool. For home use I'll stick with my nano.

My nano is collecting dust... and I really loved it... I am using my gh with a bubbler without water (did this also with my nano) and the clouds of the gh are bigger... tastewise I find the gh similar to the nano and I am using my gh mostly on 5, but as with all vapes I used after the first hit taste is more or less gone... I never liked the crafty to much plastic and taste is not better then gh in my opinion, you have to use more herb in the crafty (it is a session vape) and taste is gone after the first hit anyway (as in all other vapes I used) on the other hand as the gh works great with less herb... you have more tasty
first hits of the same amount of herb compared to the crafty also I find the taste of gh better (which is subjective of course... some like popcorn taste of their vape for example (pax)...)

 

[Icon13]

I've said it before and I'll say it again there is no way these batteries can handle that many Amps. I have been e-cig/vaping for a very long time so have extensive knowledge when it comes to batteries and their specs. These batteries are just too small to be able to handle that amount of amps. You need to go to at least a 18500 just to get near 10A. Anything 10A and above needs at least a 18650.

I would love to be proven wrong and someone show me specs of another battery in similar size that can handle up to 15A but I am pretty sure they are not out there.

There is better battery chemistry than lithium ion. Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide for example, can provide up to 30 amps of power, is much more stable and safer, and does not require protection circuit board.

Traditional High drain lithium ion batteries have a very small capacity. Much smaller than a regular 18650. Based on the wattage of the heater, and the fact that the capacity of the small battery is 700 milliamp hours I believe, I do not think they are using traditional lithium-ion or traditional High drain lithium ion. That is how they get the amperage so high, and still have decent capacity.

 

[Hawk]

There is better battery chemistry than lithium ion. Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide for example, can provide up to 30 amps of power, is much more stable and safer, and does not require protection circuit board.

Traditional High drain lithium ion batteries have a very small capacity. Much smaller than a regular 18650. Based on the wattage of the heater, and the fact that the capacity of the small battery is 700 milliamp hours I believe, I do not think they are using traditional lithium-ion or traditional High drain lithium ion. That is how they get the amperage so high, and still have decent capacity.

Yes these are most likely IMR "Safe Chemistry" batteries. IMR are the only batteries used in the e-cig/vaping world, especially when vapers use mechanical mods that have no circuitry. But once again there are no batteries on the market right now that are as small as the GH batteries that can handle high Amps. Ever since the the GH came out with its 45W spec and I did the calculations I was wondering how they are getting that power out of the battery.

Now because of the clicking sound we hear they could be pulsing. If that is the case then the Maximum Pulse Discharge Rate is higher than the Continuous Discharge Rate on IMR batteries. So the battery may have 5-7A Continuous Discharge Rate but a 12-15A Pulse Rate. I do know after less than a month two of my batteries are already significantly deteriorating. This could mean they are pulsing at the upper limit of the battery which is not good. You should always have a couple Amps to spare to be safe.

Either way I cannot find any battery similar sized with specs good enough for the GH. The closest I can find is a 14500 with 5.6A Continuous and 7A Pulse.

I am not saying for sure there isn't one out there but if there were the e-cig world would have been using them. And I also over the last 4-5 years have done tons of research on batteries and haven't come across a small battery like that with the specs needed.

Once one of my battery dies I'll rip off the wrapper and find out if there is anything stamped on the battery itself.

 

[TheWhisper]

Yes these are most likely IMR "Safe Chemistry" batteries. IMR are the only batteries used in the e-cig/vaping world, especially when vapers use mechanical mods that have no circuitry. But once again there are no batteries on the market right now that are as small as the GH batteries that can handle high Amps. Ever since the the GH came out with its 45W spec and I did the calculations I was wondering how they are getting that power out of the battery.

Now because of the clicking sound we hear they could be pulsing. If that is the case then the Maximum Pulse Discharge Rate is higher than the Continuous Discharge Rate on IMR batteries. So the battery may have 5-7A Continuous Discharge Rate but a 12-15A Pulse Rate. I do know after less than a month two of my batteries are already significantly deteriorating. This could mean they are pulsing at the upper limit of the battery which is not good. You should always have a couple Amps to spare to be safe.

Either way I cannot find any battery similar sized with specs good enough for the GH. The closest I can find is a 14500 with 5.6A Continuous and 7A Pulse.

I am not saying for sure there isn't one out there but if there were the e-cig world would have been using them. And I also over the last 4-5 years have done tons of research on batteries and haven't come across a small battery like that with the specs needed.

Once one of my battery dies I'll rip off the wrapper and find out if there is anything stamped on the battery itself.

I'm incredibly surprised no one has done so yet. Ditto for a full Hopper teardown.

 

[Hawk]

BY the way it seem these batteries, 12630 are possibly used in battery packs for notebooks and wheelchairs. Although I can find them referenced for those battery packs I cannot find specs on the individual batteries.

 

[945]

I have found some cells that could be used to make a battery for the grasshopper they are
LIR1025
10mm diameter
2.5 mm thick
and 6 Mah
I need do do some calculations with a fresh mind but maybe they can be wired in parallel then wrapped to make a battery

just worked out 25 of these comes close to right length but too low mah there are some 12.5 mm diameter.but not sure if this is too large fore the grasshopper bore will do some more calcs

 

[newVaper420]

I guess the question is, no one discovered the root battery? Someone said that they weren't custom made as it was too expensive. I guess that turned out not true?

 

[Icon13]

I have found some cells that could be used to make a battery for the grasshopper they are
LIR1025
10mm diameter
2.5 mm thick
and 6 Mah
I need do do some calculations with a fresh mind but maybe they can be wired in parallel then wrapped to make a battery

just worked out 25 of these comes close to right length but too low mah there are some 12.5 mm diameter.but not sure if this is too large fore the grasshopper bore will do some more calcs

Those would definitely not work. Why would you wire them in parallel to begin with? That would increase the capacity by combining the cells into a pack. So, 25 of those makes zero sense when you could just make one large sell to begin with.

Only wiring in serial will you make any difference since that would increase the voltage by 3.7V for each cell you add. But that pack would still only have a 6mAh capacity and would die immediately.

You wire in serial to increase voltage. You wire in parallel to increase capacity. Neither makes sense in this case unless their battery is made of two cells wired in serial (for 7.4V total). The voltage would be higher, but the capacity cut in half. We know this is not the case because the battery is clearly labeled 3.7V. This means it is a single cell not a pack. However, @ 7.4V only half the Amps is required.

I guess the question is, no one discovered the root battery? Someone said that they weren't custom made as it was too expensive. I guess that turned out not true?

I am not saying it is zero possibility that they are custom. It is just that the company is too small to even charge pre-orders upon shipping; they want the money up front. I do not see how such a small company would allocate the expensive tooling fee each time they want to do a production batch of batteries. It is very expensive. I used to work in the battery industry.

I do not have a unit yet, but anybody with a micrometer could take exact measurements. The model number, ie 18650, is the dimensions of the cell.

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

More thoughts on Ti vs. SS:

From the beginning the flavor is better in the Ti. I'm not getting the same metallic taste that the SS has, which was worse when it was new. The Ti flavor is more "pure".

The Ti unit seems to stay cooler at the mouthpiece, maybe it's just taking longer to heat up, but at the end of my hits the mouthpiece is slightly less warm.

The texture is slightly more grippy, it's hard to describe. I prefer the texture of the SS model. The Ti also seems to pick up fingerprints and smudges easier, I thought it would be the other way around.

The lighter weight of the Ti makes a bigger difference to me than I expected. My titanium weighs 35.97 grams empty, with no battery. My stainless steel weighs 45.08. That's a difference of only 9.11 grams, but it makes a huge difference to the feel of the device in my opinion. I really prefer the lighter weight.

Performance wise they seem to be neck and neck. The Ti might produce vapor slightly faster than the SS, at least it looked that way when using them with my D020-D.

 

[Hawk]

Those would definitely not work. Why would you wire them in parallel to begin with? That would increase the capacity by combining the cells into a pack. So, 25 of those makes zero sense when you could just make one large sell to begin with. Only wiring in serial will you make any difference since that would increase the voltage by 3.7V for each cell you add. But that pack would still only have a 6mAh capacity.



I am not saying it is zero possibility that they are custom. It is just that the company is too small to even charge pre-orders upon shipping; they want the money up front. I do not see how such a small company would allocate the expensive tooling fee each time they want to do a production batch of batteries. It is very expensive. I used to work in the battery industry.

I do not have a unit yet, but anybody with a micrometer could take exact measurements. The model number, ie 18650, is the dimensions of the cell.

The size is on the GH site, also another member measured much earlier in this thread. They are 12630's or 12.4mmx63mm to be exact.

I guess the question is, no one discovered the root battery? Someone said that they weren't custom made as it was too expensive. I guess that turned out not true?

In order to custom make their own battery would cost a hell of a lot more R+D and production costs then the GH itself. There is only about 4-5 major battery makers. Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Sony, etc. Companioes like eFest buy from them and put their own wrapping on it. Also you have to be very careful when buying batteries from Trustfire and other Chinese companies because they tend to buy C and D bin batteries from the big companies which are not within spec and can't be trusted. A bin batteries are to exact spec, B bin are the batteries that don't make exact spec but are pretty close. C and D bin batteries are way more out of spec and these are what some Chinese companies buy and resell. Not to be trusted. It is almost common knowledge that any battery sold under a name with Fire in it, like Trustfire, are not to be trusted that they are in spec. eFest batteries were pretty bad for being within spec but they have seem to got there act together as more were being used for vaping.

This is why I would really like to know where GH gets their batteries from. We have known members who have either gotten batteries that are DOA or deteriorate very fast. Also one instance, that I know of, where the battery vented in the GH. If GH are getting batteries from these third party companies then who knows how reliable these batteries are.

 

[Icon13]

The size is on the GH site, also another member measured much earlier in this thread. They are 12630's or 12.4mmx63mm to be exact.

That is interesting, but could they actually be 14650's?

 

[945]

Those would definitely not work. Why would you wire them in parallel to begin with? That would increase the capacity by combining the cells into a pack. So, 25 of those makes zero sense when you could just make one large sell to begin with.
Only wiring in serial will you make any difference since that would increase the voltage by 3.7V for each cell you add. But that pack would still only have a 6mAh capacity and would die immediately.

You wire in serial to increase voltage. You wire in parallel to increase capacity. Neither makes sense in this case unless their battery is made of two cells wired in serial (for 7.4V total). The voltage would be higher, but the capacity cut in half. We know this is not the case because the battery is clearly labeled 3.7V. This means it is a single cell not a pack. However, @ 7.4V only half the Amps is required.



I am not saying it is zero possibility that they are custom. It is just that the company is too small to even charge pre-orders upon shipping; they want the money up front. I do not see how such a small company would allocate the expensive tooling fee each time they want to do a production batch of batteries. It is very expensive. I used to work in the battery industry.

I do not have a unit yet, but anybody with a micrometer could take exact measurements. The model number, ie 18650, is the dimensions of the cell.

before you tell people it won't work research a bit.
why would I want wire in series to increase the voltage this would damage the unit and wiring in parallel will as you say increase the capacity which is what is needed for a longer life not higher voltage I think your mis understanding me or electricity

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

I've been testing SS vs Ti with the following methodology:

They both had a brand new, fresh from Hopper Labs, fully charged battery. I've packed the same amount of material in each of them, and alternated hits. I did all my testing at temp 5.

First chamber was dry, no mouthpiece. I started with the SS, switched to Ti, etc. I started with SS each chamber. The second chamber was through water, my D020-D.

Third chamber was very interesting. I used what I like to call "the devil's horns":

The vapor was incredibly dense and potent. In the middle of the second hit both hoppers started flickering blue very fast at the exact same time. In the middle of the third hit both batteries died, one of them died about 1-2 seconds before the other. I think the Ti died first but everything got a little hazy at this point.

I was surprised how similarly the batteries performed. As I've said before vapor production is neck and neck with the two units.

I put in fresh batteries and tried a hit but both chambers were finished. So I got exactly 3 chambers from new batteries.

I've used both solo with my recycler for the fourth chamber. I'm still waiting on a 14mm y-adapter. They performed almost identically in the recycler as well.

 

[Icon13]

The size is on the GH site, also another member measured much earlier in this thread. They are 12630's or 12.4mmx63mm to be exact.




In order to custom make their own battery would cost a hell of a lot more R+D and production costs then the GH itself. There is only about 4-5 major battery makers. Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Sony, etc. Companioes like eFest buy from them and put their own wrapping on it. Also you have to be very careful when buying batteries from Trustfire and other Chinese companies because they tend to buy C and D bin batteries from the big companies which are not within spec and can't be trusted. A bin batteries are to exact spec, B bin are the batteries that don't make exact spec but are pretty close. C and D bin batteries are way more out of spec and these are what some Chinese companies buy and resell. Not to be trusted. It is almost common knowledge that any battery sold under a name with Fire in it, like Trustfire, are not to be trusted that they are in spec. eFest batteries were pretty bad for being within spec but they have seem to got there act together as more were being used for vaping.

This is why I would really like to know where GH gets their batteries from. We have known members who have either gotten batteries that are DOA or deteriorate very fast. Also one instance, that I know of, where the battery vented in the GH. If GH are getting batteries from these third party companies then who knows how reliable these batteries are.

Mostly true, except Chinese companies don't buy all their batteries from the major companies. There are a few big Chinese manufacturers who actually do make them. High quality cells too. There are more battery manufacturer's than just the major Korean/Japanese companies that you mentioned. It is true there are different grade cells, but the good ones will go to their bigger customers, while their smaller customers will get a better deal for lesser quality cells.

The battery companies order OEM batteries in a custom sleeve. They meet the specs on the spec sheet. However, the company who brands them for resell will flat out lie to you about the specs after the fact; even though they have the spec sheet. That same cell is branded under a dozen different brands, each one claiming different specs. The only real specs are the ones on the spec sheet directly from the factory.

I too would like to know where they get their batteries from. I will find out in good time. I have a guy who sources batteries from China for a living. If he cannot find them, then nobody can.

 

[JoeMama]

@Icon13 and @Hawk , I do not know nearly as much as you guys about batteries and although I are an engineer, radio frequency is my thing.... Just as it's been said, via Ohm's Law, I just don't know how 12A can be packed into that little battery. So as you've bespoken about Discharge Rates, etc, I'm making the Divine Assumption that, "If it works, it works".

It's difficult to imagine that they would choose a battery for the sake of propriety; but rather, that the battery was one of the top two "knowns" (the other being the 3D printed heater) of the design that made it all possible.

I wonder if it's possible that, because of the "aeronautic engineering" background of one of the founders, they came upon knowledge of obscure non-commercial-market batteries?

I can imagine that they came upon the concept of the hopper after having seen it in action in their previous field of engineering, albeit in a different form factor. I don't know, some miniature heating function on a portable device requiring temp control. One of 'em was a stoner, and, Voila!