The Extreme-Q Vaporizer

[DevoTheStrange]

Ya that's what i'm thinking...definitely stronger hits with the E. With the Q, if I don't let it perculate for 5+ mins I get almost NO vapour at all...and i mean at 230C. Once it is perculated, it's fine and delivers good vapour but never enough to brown the herbs like my E did. In fact, the best i've been able to do is almost like a yellowish colour because there is still some green left.

I really regret selling my E so fast. Should of kept it for at least a backup in case I have to send this one back to Arizer (although i'm confident that it's working the way it is supposed to).

There is nothing I like better on the Ex compared to the Q except for one thing -- the screen! I really miss the timer! There are a few more things that I like better in the Ex screen than the Q, but in the end they are all minor.

With more use i'm definitely noticing a huge difference using the whip between the Ex and Q. Just can't seem to brown the herbs with the Q as well as the EX, but the vapour lasts longer. I find that I actually NEVER cough with the Q...although I sure did with the EX. I guess that's even consistent vapour!

Maybe you get stronger hits with the E? But yeah I never thought of the "Cyclone bowl" as a "Cyclone" lol. I always packed it down, my friend has a vapor bros, and it works like that too. So packing it down is really good. I usally pack the elbow if I have very little, and I get massive hits . Set at 190 and start it up!!

are you sure it isn't your strain? I have had some strains that wouldn't turn brown and still had bits of green in it. However, you could barely get a hit off it if you threw it in something like a Vaporgenie.

I've also noticed on really cold days when there is rain or snow, my ABV will always come out lighter, even if I am sitting in a nice an toasty room. I think it is because of the pressure difference from the weather instead of cold air.

 

[vape4life]

Possibly a malfunction but I just don't see how. I mean the temp sensors are reading the correct temp, so it must be getting hot enough. I'm not sure but i'm going to keep monitoring it and testing and see what happens. Pretty disheartening though considering how much I loved my V-tower and Extreme.

You guys have been around here alot longer than me... I was always under the impression that Arizer makes the best vaporizers in the world, but after reading some of the other thread and hearing about some of the problems i'm not so sure anymore.

Does anyone think there is a BETTER vape than what Arizer offers? I'm mostly interested from a quality/health stand point...meaning glass on glass, no teflon, etc.

Ya that's what i'm thinking...definitely stronger hits with the E. With the Q, if I don't let it perculate for 5+ mins I get almost NO vapour at all...and i mean at 230C. Once it is perculated, it's fine and delivers good vapour but never enough to brown the herbs like my E did. In fact, the best i've been able to do is almost like a yellowish colour because there is still some green left.

I really regret selling my E so fast. Should of kept it for at least a backup in case I have to send this one back to Arizer (although i'm confident that it's working the way it is supposed to).

Maybe you get stronger hits with the E? But yeah I never thought of the "Cyclone bowl" as a "Cyclone" lol. I always packed it down, my friend has a vapor bros, and it works like that too. So packing it down is really good. I usally pack the elbow if I have very little, and I get massive hits . Set at 190 and start it up!!

Idk man, I'm pretty sure this uses the same heating element or a better one. Maybe you have a malfunctioned unit?

 

[vape4life]

Yes i'm sure it's not the strain...I NEVER had this issue with the Extreme, ever. I think I just miss that "tonnes of initial vapour" and then nothing, instead of the consistent vapour that the Q offers, that never seems to extract everything from the herbs. It could just be a preference thing since i'm so used to the E.

Ya that's what i'm thinking...definitely stronger hits with the E. With the Q, if I don't let it perculate for 5+ mins I get almost NO vapour at all...and i mean at 230C. Once it is perculated, it's fine and delivers good vapour but never enough to brown the herbs like my E did. In fact, the best i've been able to do is almost like a yellowish colour because there is still some green left.

I really regret selling my E so fast. Should of kept it for at least a backup in case I have to send this one back to Arizer (although i'm confident that it's working the way it is supposed to).

Maybe you get stronger hits with the E? But yeah I never thought of the "Cyclone bowl" as a "Cyclone" lol. I always packed it down, my friend has a vapor bros, and it works like that too. So packing it down is really good. I usally pack the elbow if I have very little, and I get massive hits . Set at 190 and start it up!!

are you sure it isn't your strain? I have had some strains that wouldn't turn brown and still had bits of green in it. However, you could barely get a hit off it if you threw it in something like a Vaporgenie.

I've also noticed on really cold days when there is rain or snow, my ABV will always come out lighter, even if I am sitting in a nice an toasty room. I think it is because of the pressure difference from the weather instead of cold air.

 

[the electrician]

so why not rig up a system that will get the most out of it?

 

[vape4life]

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to...sorry i'm new here

so why not rig up a system that will get the most out of it?

 

[the electrician]

if the cyclone bowl isnt up to scratch then work on altering it until it is. or get rid of it all together and make your own. who says the guy at arizer knows everything there is to know about vaporising and has built the perfect machine?

 

[vape4life]

The cyclone bowl is fine...it's the heater that is different from the Ex. Everything else about the Q is fine, although I like the display on the Ex better. If it wasnt for the quieter fan and nice new colour/size, i'd definitely revert back to the Ex, but I still wanna give this Q a chance.

Steve at Arizer is a really smart guy especially when it comes to vapes. I'm saying that it's the best vaporizer on the market unless you can come up with one better?

if the cyclone bowl isnt up to scratch then work on altering it until it is. or get rid of it all together and make your own. who says the guy at arizer knows everything there is to know about vaporising and has built the perfect machine?

 

[the electrician]

you cant treat these people like gods. he may well be a smart guy, but who says hes any better learned than me? it is stupid to think that out of the box anything will be completely perfect

i have come up with a better design, it uses less weed and gives larger hits and ive posted endlessly about it

 

[vape4life]

Sorry i'm new here and havent read your posts about it, but i will try to find them.

That's nice that you have come up with a better design, but until it's put into production, or you can name a better vaporizer now, I still hold that arizer's vapes are the best on the market.

With that being said though, I do find that i'm going through herb like crazy since switching from bongs, even though vapes are supposed to be more efficient.

I thought that a vape is a vape is a vape...you have hot air moving over herbs...but I guess I was wrong.

you cant treat these people like gods. he may well be a smart guy, but who says hes any better learned than me? it is stupid to think that out of the box anything will be completely perfect

i have come up with a better design, it uses less weed and gives larger hits and ive posted endlessly about it

 

[DevoTheStrange]

IME the extreme uses more herb for a satisfying experience compared to all the others I use. Some vapes go through herb like there is no tomorrow, and others hardly use any. Just got to find the right one that suites you.

 

[the electrician]

That's nice that you have come up with a better design, but until it's put into production, or you can name a better vaporizer now, I still hold that arizer's vapes are the best on the market.

i used a gear bong and a roor adapter, theyre both in production. moreover, i didnt say arizers arent one of the best, i said you can always improve it just like anything really

my problem with the extreme is the bowl design, just like yours. were in the same boat here fella

 

[hereatlast]

I've found that for thick vapor in bags, the Extreme needs to be packed. The vapor you can get from a 1/4 full cyclone pack just can't compare to one packed all the way to the black (same strain or THC percentage); I can definitely see why people end up using more material with this vape (no smoke/chest pain to hold you back). OTOH, using the elbow pack can produce several vapor rich hits (or many wispy hits) with very little material. If nothing else, I've learned how to stretch my stash a lot longer when I'm running low; kief stretches out buds or weak strains out admirably on this unit, a nice transition from losing my precious concentrate to the air once the lighter touches it.


vape4life, my question regarding recycled vapor comes from some admittedly quick assumptions. The question comes mainly from some research (minimal at best) about the absorption rate of THC/canniboids into the lungs; I can post up some specific links later but the research works against the "longer you hold a hit the better" theory, stating that the goodies we want from the plant's smoke/vapor is distributed to our lungs very quickly, and continually absorbed for about an hour or so. I'm not sure if that ideology applies to the recycled vapor but I'll take your word that it gets you higher, just not sure I'm ready to start the practice



electrician, so your solution was to move the sample closer to the heating element? I remember reading about your Extreme tips/tricks but can't remember specifically. I'm a little apprehensive about using my unit's heating element to vaporize a bong's bowl though I've seen pictures of your set-up produce some serious milk

 

[lwien]

I can post up some specific links later but the research works against the "longer you hold a hit the better" theory, stating that the goodies we want from the plant's smoke/vapor is distributed to our lungs very quickly.....

I knew that this was true for smoke, but is it true for vapor also? If it is, I'd love to see the link that backs this up.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

I was under the assumption holding it longer only works with vapor, and that smoke is absorbed at a far quicker rate than vapor.
But as I said, only an assumption. Being that smoke and vapor are two different creatures. One may look like the other but each has different properties.
Smoke has all kinds of stuff in it. Vapor is primarily THC in comparison to smoke.

 

[the electrician]

electrician, so your solution was to move the sample closer to the heating element? I remember reading about your Extreme tips/tricks but can't remember specifically. I'm a little apprehensive about using my unit's heating element to vaporize a bong's bowl though I've seen pictures of your set-up produce some serious milk

ugh, those early ideas were total abortions of the mind and lead to a few thousand fuck ups, i try to pretend i never came up with them. ive now settled on matching the widths of bowl and airstream, the distance from the element was a red herring. i urge people with nothing else doing to try it out since i cant really make any claims with only my result to back them up.

it can always be improved but im sober as a fucking judge so the ideas are thin on the ground, come tomorrow ill be back to normal though

my guess in regards to ghosting hits is this; if the thc in smoke is absorbed so fast, surely the same is true of vapour? maybe theres much more thc in the vapour but can it really take that much longer?

 

[hereatlast]

so electrician your final basic adaptation is making the airpath match the bowl size, through a larger elbow/stem? just curious.




As for the absorption issue. I'll post the couple that I bookmarked but I'd have to backtrack and find the others. This first one is fairly general and actually was testing vapor vs. spray ingestion of MJ...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/humannature/archive/2009/05/28/marijuana-spray-or-vapor.aspx

The consensus is vapor beats all (duh ) but this is the paragraph that has any bearings on the absorption rate...

"on the absorption of THC from marijuana inhaled via the Volcanos vaporizer system compared to smoking marijuana cigarettes. We found that THC levels were generally similar over 6 h for the two types of delivery. The vaporizer was associated with higher plasma THC concentrations at 30 min and 1 hour compared to smoking at each THC strength, suggesting that absorption was faster with the vaporizer."

I found a similar claim here regarding the higher plasma levels, not specifically relevant but support a faster absorption rate theory...
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7240

Researchers reported that vaporization resulted in higher plasma concentrations of THC compared to smoked cannabis for up to 60 minutes following inhalation.


This next little blurb from what seems to be the source for the prior facts kind of argues against the prior points.

http://www.maps.org/media/vaporizor_epub.html
The two modalitieswere not significantly different from one another at... or for the peak THCplasma concentrations measured at 2 min.



So these things basically say that a vaporizer (also according to these texts I believe the vaporizer delivered 54% of the available THC vs. somewhere in the 20s for smoke) results in higher THC plasma at 30 and 60 minutes but not as soon as 2 minutes.

This later text also would support your recycled vapor being much safer than recycled smoke (obviously) in the data it provides for CO exhalation:
The levels of exhaled CO increased very little after vaporization...whereas there was a substantial increase after smoking marijuana.


This last text was a cursory study of vaporizing but a good read in terms of the initial scientific benefits, the conclusion is more research needs to be done on vaporizing!

I'm sorry I thought I had some more relevant facts but I'll keep digging, unfortunately, doing admittedly elementary research on a subject of this sort yields mostly message boards/forums with completely unreliable data and posters (its funny to hear people claim 15% of THC is absorbed in 5.5 seconds or whatever with no scientific backing) and less real data. I'll edit this post with more links/facts if I can find what I was looking for.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

but, wouldn't the levels at 30 minutes and 1 hour also be high because there is more THC contained within vapor than there would be smoke.
It would make sense the levels are higher, because you are consuming higher amounts of THC. If it were absorbed faster there would be higher levels at two minutes, not thirty minutes.
Levels would be higher at two minutes as well if it were absorbed faster. The results at 30 minutes and 1 hour only tell me that you just consumed a massive amount of THC.
When you smoke a lot of the THC is lost in wasted un-inhaled smoke. Some of the THC is even destroyed when it is burned. So not all the THC makes it to the lungs. But with smoke your body absorbs a good amount of the THC contained within it in a matter of mere moments. Vapor is not smoke and behaves differently.... it is closer to steam than it is smoke. Smoke is a cocktail of different chemicals, hundreds of them.
Vapor on the other hand is mostly THC. So if one were to consume a large quantity of THC, one would expect there to be much higher levels in the blood.
With smoke you are pulling THC out of a substrate. The substrate being the smoke itself. With vapor the substrate is the THC, so unlike smoke your not inhaling something else to obtain THC.
As vapor cools it condenses. This condensation is THC oil. So it would make sense that if you hold Vapor in your lungs longer it would coat it in a tiny amount of oil. That oil, unlike tars and resin, is further absorbed by your body.
I would say the results show that the body doesn't absorb vapor faster. But rather say the body absorbs THC better with Vapor than it does with Smoke. Our bodies might take longer to absorb vapor, but, they might absorb it more efficiently.


I think to properly compare smoke and vapor in a test they need to figure out how much THC is contained within each so they can administer similar sized doses.
Just because you vape a set amount of herb does not mean you will get just as much THC out of it if you smoke it instead. I am sure most here can agree on that.

 

[the electrician]

so electrician your final basic adaptation is making the airpath match the bowl size, through a larger elbow/stem? just curious.

smaller bowl my friend, the diameter of the air stream is tiny. 5mm maybe

 

[Konrad_Zuse]

I've found that for thick vapor in bags, the Extreme needs to be packed. The vapor you can get from a 1/4 full cyclone pack just can't compare to one packed all the way to the black (same strain or THC percentage); I can definitely see why people end up using more material with this vape (no smoke/chest pain to hold you back). OTOH, using the elbow pack can produce several vapor rich hits (or many wispy hits) with very little material. If nothing else, I've learned how to stretch my stash a lot longer when I'm running low; kief stretches out buds or weak strains out admirably on this unit, a nice transition from losing my precious concentrate to the air once the lighter touches it.


vape4life, my question regarding recycled vapor comes from some admittedly quick assumptions. The question comes mainly from some research (minimal at best) about the absorption rate of THC/canniboids into the lungs; I can post up some specific links later but the research works against the "longer you hold a hit the better" theory, stating that the goodies we want from the plant's smoke/vapor is distributed to our lungs very quickly, and continually absorbed for about an hour or so. I'm not sure if that ideology applies to the recycled vapor but I'll take your word that it gets you higher, just not sure I'm ready to start the practice



electrician, so your solution was to move the sample closer to the heating element? I remember reading about your Extreme tips/tricks but can't remember specifically. I'm a little apprehensive about using my unit's heating element to vaporize a bong's bowl though I've seen pictures of your set-up produce some serious milk

Um comparing the amounts of the bowl filled OBVIOUSLY will give more vapor. You're adding more thc and more material to vape, it doesn't matter what vaporizer more will equal more vapor. The extreme just has a HUGE bowl area, so the smaller amounts wont give yu killler vapor. I find it I pack a nice amount, like .1 .2, into the elbow you will get amazing results. I might have god tolerance, but it doesn't take much to get me to where I want to be. Obviously this is for myself, but I have packed a good amount for 4 people are and the same thing happens .

Also holding it in will absorb more THC. This is the problem I had when I first started smoking. When I tried some Granddaddy purp from a pipe, I didn't hold it in long enough, aka I coughed it all up, after 4 big hits I wasn't really "smashed" just a little "light headed." Then when I tried some other stuff later on I held it in and got results. That's why sometimes people say "You don't get high your first time," well that's fake, a lot of people just don't know how to hold it.

Holding it in longer = more absorbed, but when you smoke it also means more other crap absorbed too. That's why you get really messed up while playing "Chicago" or any other game that requires you to hold the smoke/vapor in for long periods of him. Vapor Chicago sounds fun .

 

[davebart]

Ok, I received my Q today in the mail and have completed the period of burning off factory smells plus one drawn out vape session. I packed the elbow with fairly dry "glass jar stored" bud. I pre-heated for 10 min on 220c and then drop to 190c just I like I do with my extreme. I feel that the Q allows me to consistently pull vapor at 190c. I feel the E stopped short of two and a half good pulls and then I have to bump up. I turn on the fan and see vapor still after 4 vapor pulls at 190c on the Q. It seems that the Q's cyclone bowl fits better on the heather and it seems the elbow is snug. I love the slowly blinking red heating light. I can read the screen better from far on the Q but is smaller than the E. The Q looks alot more like a serious piece of technology than the E did with its "tin can chrome". I DO MISS THE TIMER from the E. I do like the idea of hit after hit constant vapor and I hope raising the temp will act the same way. I feel let down sometimes with E when I wanna grab a rip after a hit or two but come up short. I will share my Q experience as I use it.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

I kind of like the fact that there is no more timer. My boss always forgets he puts the timer on and gets pissed whenever it turns itself off.

 

[vape4life]

Thanks for sharing your experience with the Q. I'm now starting to maybe think my unit doesn't get hot enough even though the temp reads whatever. Why do you go up to 220C and then bring it down to 190C? Why not just go to 190C to start with? I suppose I can see you getting vapour if you let the bowl sit for 10 mins. But is this what vaping is all about? Having to wait 10 minutes for the damn thing to heat up and then 10 minutes to perculate?

My other issue and that I have been seeing in other posts/threads is that Arizer's vapes are one of the least efficient due to the bowl.

Also, when you make your comparisons to the Ex, even though you only get a couple of good pulls I bet there are thicker. Yes, the Q is consistent, but I don't think the vapor density is the same.

I'm starting to realize that other companies have made HUGE strides since I bought my original v-tower 3 years ago and i'm going to look more into the SSV and Cano. I'd rather spend the money and have the best of all worlds instead of an "all in one" for a budget price.

Ok, I received my Q today in the mail and have completed the period of burning off factory smells plus one drawn out vape session. I packed the elbow with fairly dry "glass jar stored" bud. I pre-heated for 10 min on 220c and then drop to 190c just I like I do with my extreme. I feel that the Q allows me to consistently pull vapor at 190c. I feel the E stopped short of two and a half good pulls and then I have to bump up. I turn on the fan and see vapor still after 4 vapor pulls at 190c on the Q. It seems that the Q's cyclone bowl fits better on the heather and it seems the elbow is snug. I love the slowly blinking red heating light. I can read the screen better from far on the Q but is smaller than the E. The Q looks alot more like a serious piece of technology than the E did with its "tin can chrome". I DO MISS THE TIMER from the E. I do like the idea of hit after hit constant vapor and I hope raising the temp will act the same way. I feel let down sometimes with E when I wanna grab a rip after a hit or two but come up short. I will share my Q experience as I use it.

 

[davebart]

Ok its official. After my first day with the Q I can say the Q is great. Trust me, I was sticking to the Ex side and was questionable about the Q. But when I go to take a hit I am confident I will feel blow vapor out. There is a huge difference between the number of rips you get at one temp (195c) on the Q compared to the Ex. Now I prefer the whip over bag since its just me and my girl mostly I am getting great results. After the warm-up my girl and I grabbed vapor at 195c for a good 5-6 times. I even let it go for 45 minutes to come back to the same temp (195c) and still pull vapor. My Ex never ever let me stay at one temp for more than three pulls of vapor at the most. Trust me I loved my Ex but the Q seems to fit my personal wants. I miss the timer but I can easily get over that, I LOVE THE QUIET FAN, THE SCREEN DISPLAYS REMOTE OPERATION, THE TEMP SITS AT ONE TEMP UNTIL ITS ADJUSTED BY YOU, THE SMALLER LOOK, THE DARKER LOOK, THE MELLOW BLINK FOR THE HEATING, THE CYCLONE AND ELBOW FIT SNUG, AND MORE TO EXPERIENCE...

Either way the Ex or the Q will get you feeling great. I wouldn't be mad to sticking to my Ex. I do feel the Q is better more because the pulls I am getting at one temp. Other than that the aesthetics are small bonuses.
I will save more bud with the Q since I can sit down at one temp and vaporize here and there throughout the day.

 

[vape4life]

VERY well said! After being able to spend some more time with my Q my experience mirrors yours to a T. I used 200C this time with purp kush...i let it simmer for at leat 10-15 mins. I really can't believe how the hits are endless? seriously, just used enough to pack the elbow nicely. Then I take it out and crush it up a bit more and repack and endless hits again! However I did increase the temp up to 210 and then 220 to extract everything (wanted to see how vaked could get off it) and was VERY pleased with the result...browned to perfection! I could of even went higher but had no desire to.

You're bang on with all your other points too. The Ex still kicks ass, and it definitely has fewer hits, albeit thicker/stronger initial hits, and then quickly browns the bud and tastes like ass. One thing I notice when using the whip and having the fan going (vapor shooters or what have you) is that the vapour doesn't seem to come out very forcibly. Can you compare it to the Ex on speed 3? Just curious if it's the same or not considering the blow bags at approx. the same speed.

The Q is definitely better, and now I can see why the Ex won't be produced anymore.

Menu on the LCD is great and the LCD is nice, but the timer missing sucks considering since you have to warm it up, and simmer your herbs it would be nice to see how long it's been going. But, i'm just bitching and really it's minor and everything MORE than makes up for it!

Ok its official. After my first day with the Q I can say the Q is great. Trust me, I was sticking to the Ex side and was questionable about the Q. But when I go to take a hit I am confident I will feel blow vapor out. There is a huge difference between the number of rips you get at one temp (195c) on the Q compared to the Ex. Now I prefer the whip over bag since its just me and my girl mostly I am getting great results. After the warm-up my girl and I grabbed vapor at 195c for a good 5-6 times. I even let it go for 45 minutes to come back to the same temp (195c) and still pull vapor. My Ex never ever let me stay at one temp for more than three pulls of vapor at the most. Trust me I loved my Ex but the Q seems to fit my personal wants. I miss the timer but I can easily get over that, I LOVE THE QUIET FAN, THE SCREEN DISPLAYS REMOTE OPERATION, THE TEMP SITS AT ONE TEMP UNTIL ITS ADJUSTED BY YOU, THE SMALLER LOOK, THE DARKER LOOK, THE MELLOW BLINK FOR THE HEATING, THE CYCLONE AND ELBOW FIT SNUG, AND MORE TO EXPERIENCE...

Either way the Ex or the Q will get you feeling great. I wouldn't be mad to sticking to my Ex. I do feel the Q is better more because the pulls I am getting at one temp. Other than that the aesthetics are small bonuses.
I will save more bud with the Q since I can sit down at one temp and vaporize here and there throughout the day.

 

[vape4life]

The autoshut off time is still there. The actual readout of time on/countdown is missing. Helpful for the first 30 mins anyway forsure.

I kind of like the fact that there is no more timer. My boss always forgets he puts the timer on and gets pissed whenever it turns itself off.