The Bud Toaster - (currently: Model 14, version 3)

[Egzoset]

Well, if you think we're saying the same thing in different ways then why this never-ending dialog:

HD> ...i noticed the trace to the LED was fractured.
Eg> ...perhaps instead of trying to control the trace's width... ...focus on the width between your copper traces instead?
HD> ...i need to have wider traces to have more copper holding onto the pcb.
Eg> Wider traces is what one gets when the space between them is smaller.
HD> ...trace width is how you specify more copper on the pcb
Eg> Trace width and trace thickness are two different things.
HD> ...i'm going to address trace thickness when i switch from 1 oz copper...
Eg> My suggestion stands... ...why not simply reduce the void between them?
HD> when i mentioned more copper on the board i was referring to the size of the footprint...

One moment "more copper" is defined in terms of thickness (ounces per square inch) then it's about surface (trace width). I've noticed a few occurances like this before, that's why i'm afraid our "misunderstandings" are doomed to continue. Just let me know that my presence is felt like a nuisance and i won't bother you again.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

you just confuse me ... a wider trace contains more copper, eh?

So, there are two ways to increase the copper content of a trace: (1) increase the width of the trace (i.e. the amount of copper horizontally on the board), and (2) increase the thickness (i.e. the depth of the copper, or the amount of copper vertically above the board).

Yes, i understand that decreasing the void might mean the same as increasing the trace width, but why do you insist upon using a non-standard technique for saying the same thing? Skinny traces closer together decreases the void without adding copper to the trace. And, in this case, i want a wider trace and as long as the pcb layout software doesn't complain about traces being too close together, focusing on wider traces is a more useful technique.

Also, you didn't answer this question:

Trying my best isn't enough, too bad.

Isn't enough for what?

 

[hemp;)goofy8cheerio]

hippie he's getting a fantasty design ready & really wuvs all the ideas thats all

 

[Egzoset]

Yes i did answer the question but somehow i knew there was a pretty good chance this attempt would fail just like my previous ones...

That's OKay. In any case, i'll suggest we simply compare your PC Board layout with my illustration, as an ultimate effort to reach you:

Thickness isn't the primary factor which affects copper trace adherance to the PC Board substrate, trace width does that and hence these two features are NOT equivalent.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Thickness isn't the primary factor which affects copper trace adherance to the PC Board substrate, trace width does that and hence these two features are NOT equivalent.

what? didn't i mention that i was increasing the trace width about 10 posts ago?

that photo of my pcb shows how the traces are too narrow and needed to be widened.

 

[Egzoset]

Here's your previous comment in reaction to my explanations :

...there are two ways to increase the copper content of a trace...

The initial suggestion was meant to help with copper trace lifting prevention, you don't have to like it and you don't even have to justify yourself about it! It's OKay to reject an idea which isn't to your taste but - PLEASE - don't risk your credibility with faulty reasoning only to justify that decision if you can avoid it.

My advice right now is to let go! Put it down in writing:

[h] I don't like it! [/h]



...

You'll see, i bet you'll feel much better and you will be respected for that: i'm almost certain you'd rather not waste your time in vain! I know because neither would i.



[h] I don't like it! [/h]

It's nothing personal, this doesn't even raise controversy and there's no need to argue without end...

 

[budballer]

can i just by an assembled 14.2 pcb off you with code loaded, haha pleasee? $65?

 

[Hippie Dickie]

No, sorry.

 

[Egzoset]

[h]I take note of the silence.[/h]

Salutations!

 

[hemp;)goofy8cheerio]

cheerio.org

 

[budballer]

Okay you win, ill build my own crap lol sorry. If you could post up all your changes to the code and pcb as you go though that'd be spectacular. Still think this is the best vape design to date.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

If you could post up all your changes to the code and pcb as you go though that'd be spectacular.

well, that's what i've been doing for over a year now.

by the way, 10 pcbs costs about $120 ... and the parts are about $20 ... and, as always, it's an exercise left to the reader.

 

[Egzoset]

For my last contribution in the present thread i'd like the reader to have a good look at this as it might prove useful:


'Easy-PC For Windows'

...relatively to what i tried to explain here:



...and here:



...more specifically...

 

[Hippie Dickie]

thanks for your contribution ... way over my head, that's for sure.

 

[budballer]

lol i think i see what hes saying.... but dont see why its such a big deal

 

[Hippie Dickie]

oh, i see what he's saying, i just don't see any relevance to the Bud Toaster. And despite the fact i've asked several times how his comments might be useful for my design, there's no answer.

s'okay, i'll just struggle along in my own way.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

oh, man!!!

why do PCs have to be so complicated? But, fortunately, Acronis was able to clone my hard drive with no problems (evidently --- remains to be seen). So, a somewhat wasted day in Dickieville getting my main business PC up and running again after a slowly dying system C: drive.

That, plus we lost power for about 4 hours this AM, but my brand-spanking-new massive battery backup (two deep cycle car-size batteries) now gives me about 60 minutes of run time for my three computers, so that makes life a bit easier.

And, with all the normal work delayed or aborted, i had some time to work on the vape software.

And, i found just a fuck ton of screwed up code in some of the math routines. ( i must have been high (or somehting) when i wrote that code).

Anyway, i'm now seeing plus or minus 0.5F temperature stability.

And i still haven't optimized the PID parameters.

Wow!

Now to get some real work done.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Status Update ... tales of woe and a new version emerges

Well, last week was an interesting week ... massive pressure to meet a Dec 1st deadline for a work project, house guests for a full week -- which needed two trips to the train station, AND, my main PC crapped out -- sorta, kinda, in that it sorta, kinda worked anyway, except for an occasional BSOD (Blue Screen Of Death).

But when the goin' gets rough, etc. --- assembled the deliverables 4 days ahead of deadline, found that removing one of the memory sticks in my PC got it running without any more BSOD issues -- although the Windows Memory Test just doesn't work on this motherboard, although it works perfectly on an older motherboard PC. (i usually assemble my own systems to get the optimal configuration of components). So, if i can remember it long enough, i'll see if ASUS has a memory tester for this mb. And the house guests were a total delight.

Except. My current main vape, the Bud Toaster Cube (Model 14 Version 1 Unit 1), also crapped out. i disassembled it one too many times, and the power connection circuit trace lifted off the pcb (in engineering parlance: "it tore up"). What a drag! It now sits in the discarded vape parts bin awaiting disassembly and parts salvaging.

Sure, i still had three Bud Toaster Cylinders (Model 13 Version 5-4e), but there is an amazing difference between the Cube and the Cylinder. Same software, same components, but ever so slightly different geometry. And very different performance. The Cube Rules! (sounds like a t-shirt!). After using the Cube for several weeks, going back to the Cylinder was eye-opening.

Well, addressing what i had seen before with a trace lifting off the pcb, i redid the pcb layout and sent off for a new set of boards -- also made it 1.72" dia instead of 1.5" for increased stability and reliability. Got the order submitted the day BEFORE my PC crapped out. Which is how i found out the PC was failing - when i tried to open the pcb layout software the very next day after the order was placed and the software wouldn't run, wouldn't reinstall, wouldn't uninstall. PITA!

The new PCBs rolled in the day before Thanksgiving so i had the means to a solution at hand -- i always keep enough components to build a half-dozen units.

Now, i had already milled the Mahogany cube for m14v1 unit 2, before i saw the problems with that pcb layout -- even populated the second pcb with components, but never completed the build for unit 2.

So i was able to complete the build using the new pcb and everyone was able to try it out.

A different pcb layout requires a version increment. Introducing Model 14 Version 2 Unit 1:

First the new PCB layout with much, much wider traces:

Top:

Bottom:

And, now with components soldered on:
Top:

Bottom (i colored the LEDs to provide orientation):

The other main upgrade from version 1 is replacing the 3" power cable on the cube with a nice clean looking Deans plug. Here is the Mahogany cube:

Looks pretty much the same as the Cherry cube. i sanded down to #600 paper and the cube feels amazing. Here is the back showing the power plug:

And here is the view of the bottom with the cover removed. The dotted blue lines show the screw heads that connect the pcb to the power plug. This was the design breakthrough that let me get rid of that damn, fucking cable. The cable is simple for a first iteration of the prototype, but i really hate the cable for normal operation:

So, now, finally, i'm gonna make 10 units if it kills me. i already have unit 2 pcb populated and i should get unit 3 pcb done tonight.

But now it's time for a vape session.

The Cube Rules!

 

[notmyrealUSERname]

i have finally had some time to go through this thread. i must say i am very impressed with your dedication and determination to see the bud toaster succeed. i would like to see it in action! but i think i may have missed the link to the video demo of the BT...

So, now, finally, i'm gonna make 10 units if it kills me. i already have unit 2 pcb populated and i should get unit 3 pcb done tonight.

will any of those units be avail. to the public as part of your 1000 unit limited production run? or are these 10 still considered betas? are they already spoken for?

500 for an oz? wow! now i understand why conservation is so important to some vaporists.


in post #450 you state that a session lasts about 7min. is this still accurate for the latest version? i am assuming a session is one vial, correct? how many grams per vial?



post 553

i am planning a whole line of vaporizers and accessories --- once the Bud Toaster is a real product.

then why only 1000 units?

also i think you should make extra vials avail. i would like to have 3 - 5 vials with lids. then you can prepack them for when your on the go, or have a few spares.

have you thought about water filtration? i think some sort of hydratube similar to clear domes pd tube: http://www.etsy.com/transaction/38415759, or the vaporfection would be a popular accessory.

or you could just make an adaptor tube. it would be a tube made that has a 14.4mm male gong end, with the bud vial filter end, on the opposite end. that way you could hold the BT, to any water pipe.

post 591

i'll put 2 of these in the package and still be able to drop the price to $400.

sounds better!

i am looking forward to further updates!

 

[Hippie Dickie]

First, thank-you for taking the time to read the thread and responding. Now, some answers ...

i may have missed the link to the video demo of the BT...

i am tempted to make a video, but i've been waiting until i finally stabilize on a production model. i believe in "what you see is what you get", but that version isn't quite here yet.

will any of those [10] units be avail. to the public as part of your 1000 unit limited production run? or are these 10 still considered betas? are they already spoken for?

These first 10 units will be the betas and they have already been assigned to testers. The 1000 unit production run will be available for sale once the user comments have been analyzed and bugs/issues resolved.

in post #450 you state that a session lasts about 7min. is this still accurate for the latest version? i am assuming a session is one vial, correct? how many grams per vial?

i increased session time to 7 min and 30 seconds, and the time for the current session can be extended in 2 minute increments. Yes, the 7.5 minutes is about what it normally takes to vape a vial that is about 3/4 full. A vial is 1/2 dram, a dram is 1/16 oz -- roughly .88 gram. i usually fill a vial 1/3 to 1/2 full.

then why only 1000 units?

although i tend to see infinite possibilities, having a fixed goal keeps me focused on what is truly doable.

also i think you should make extra vials avail. i would like to have 3 - 5 vials with lids. then you can prepack them for when your on the go, or have a few spares.

The basic setup will include 3 vials and tubes, and extra sets will be available. i don't think that preloaded vials offers any advantage over an Altoids can for your stash. Very easy to empty and refill a vial -- a vial cools from 400F to room temp in about 2 minutes.

have you thought about water filtration? i think some sort of hydratube similar to clear domes pd tube: http://www.etsy.com/transaction/38415759, or the vaporfection would be a popular accessory.

or you could just make an adaptor tube. it would be a tube made that has a 14.4mm male gong end, with the bud vial filter end, on the opposite end. that way you could hold the BT, to any water pipe.

i don't see how to do this without a length of plastic tubing -- and i just say no to plastic. i am happy to encourage other people to accessorize as they see fit.

"drop the price to $400" --- sounds better!

i'm still working on the retail pricing for the full package. But i think $500 for a complete setup is going to be the price. So, although a charger is now $10, the $50 charger is a better performing unit. And i am still working on the case design and some battery design issues --- "miles to go before i sleep".

i did get the pcb for unit 3 soldered with components last night. Maybe two more tonight, and some wood milling this weekend.

 

[notmyrealUSERname]

i may have missed the link to the video demo of the BT...

i am tempted to make a video, but i've been waiting until i finally stabilize on a production model. i believe in "what you see is what you get", but that version isn't quite here yet.

i understand, and since you only get one chance to make the first impression... it would be better to wait.


7 mins. for a session, is close to the ideal amount of time (for me) - its usually the time it takes to most people to smoke a cig.

have you thought about water filtration? i think some sort of hydratube similar to clear domes pd tube: http://www.etsy.com/transaction/38415759, or the vaporfection would be a popular accessory.

or you could just make an adaptor tube. it would be a tube made that has a 14.4mm male gong end, with the bud vial filter end, on the opposite end. that way you could hold the BT, to any water pipe.

i don't see how to do this without a length of plastic tubing -- and i just say no to plastic. i am happy to encourage other people to accessorize as they see fit.

btw, when i said vaporfection i meant aqua vape vapor cooler: http://www.vaporfection.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=26.


anyways, i will see if i can clarify a few things about the water pipe adaptor that i am suggesting. currently, your vapor tube is 'friction sealed' to the vial, by simply holding the two pieces together. my idea doesn't change this aspect.


i think a piece of glass tubing that was shaped like a candy cane, where the hooked end would have a gong joint, and the other end would be closed with holes in it - the same as your current vapor tubes, would work perfect for a waterpipe adaptor.

you put the 'candy cane' on your bong, then when its time to toke, you press the BT up to the filtered end, and inhale.

maybe ill draw a pic and upload it, if you need help picturing what i am talking about.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

it would be nice to see it. i can't figure out a decent way to adapt to a glass piece or water filter.

But, really, that's not something i would be interested in (to make or to sell) nor would i use it. The Bud Toaster is the vaporizer that i use. it is perfect for my needs as it is currently designed and implemented.

But i try to stay open to new ideas ... for the next model after a commercial product actually happens, perhaps.

 

[budballer]

Great job with 14.2! Nice to see constant progression here man. Still most convenient vape design to date imo. Are you still using the old discontinued fet? Or did you get the new ones finally?

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Thanks ... i still have a few of the 8832's, but i need to order parts for another dozen units so i'll see what's available or come up with a substitute.

Did you check the Fairchild Semi website for distributors and their stock?

i found some 8832's in UK for twice the $US.

Here's a MOSFET:
Infineon Technologies IPB034N03L G

only slightly higher Rds(ON),
i.e. Drain-to-Source resistance slightly (insignificantly) higher at 3.5 mOhm vs. 2.1 mOhm

 

[Hippie Dickie]

So i was hung up for a while trying to figure out how to connect the Deans Male plug to the printed circuit board. Invested a whole weekend in figuring out what wouldn't work. Then, i finally got it.

i finally figure out the design for the copper strap to connect the - (minus) terminal to the pcb trace (it's the one on the left). It follows on the design that was pretty trivial to figure out on the + (positive) terminal. i'm never sure where these design road blocks come from, but damn is it fine to bust through the barriers.

So i was all prepared to build the ten units, when, of all things, reality invaded my digital domain (how rude!). For my real-world business, this is my busy season. And a family member decided to spend some time in the hospital. That sure does stir the schedule.

Anyway, for the first time in a long asss time, the way forward is clear -- i just need to get a little time to spare.

Happy Holidays to everyone! We All Will Survive! (drugs help)