5446ThatsMyNumber
Well-Known Member
Those, my friend, are CLEAN. A job well done so far, and I might have to purchase one some time down the line.
The Bud Toaster - (currently: Model 14, version 3)
- Thread starter Hippie Dickie
- Start date
In The Clouds
Member
I remember seeing this being built on Overgrow (RIP) years ago! It is very cool to see how much it has come along, I look forward to following this until it is released. 
vape4health
Well-Known Member
Very nice Hippie .
Im working on that no2 and you seem like the pro on this and I dont know who else to ask , I know you cant say for sure but just a guess , if I was to replace the coil wire with a different gauge wire but I match ohms of the current coil do you think the software would still work for keeping temp close or is it going to change everything . And you said about mica , the stuff you had did it break up super easy , could you wrap a pipe with it . Thanks a bunch .
Im working on that no2 and you seem like the pro on this and I dont know who else to ask , I know you cant say for sure but just a guess , if I was to replace the coil wire with a different gauge wire but I match ohms of the current coil do you think the software would still work for keeping temp close or is it going to change everything . And you said about mica , the stuff you had did it break up super easy , could you wrap a pipe with it . Thanks a bunch .
re: mica -- mica is made in all shapes and styles. i just had a couple of 1/16" sheets that i got from a surplus scientific website about 10 years ago. It does break up -- flake -- very easily. i can drill it and cut it if i'm careful, but the edge of the cut separates into layers from the pressure of the knife or scissors.
re: coil wire -- different gauge nichrome requires different amps to hit a specific temperature. For example:
so the amps needed change with the wire gauge. If the temperature control algorithm is anything like mine, performance is very dependent on the components used.
But idk -- it might work.
re: coil wire -- different gauge nichrome requires different amps to hit a specific temperature. For example:
so the amps needed change with the wire gauge. If the temperature control algorithm is anything like mine, performance is very dependent on the components used.
But idk -- it might work.
vape4health
Well-Known Member
Awsome dude , thanks . I'd still love to have a Bud Toaster , looks like one hell of a device .
I dont want to keep bothering you but you think there is any chance that the wire in this is not nichrome , its very thin doesnt look all like your wire . Using a caliper Im seeing .008 " on the coil wire .
I dont want to keep bothering you but you think there is any chance that the wire in this is not nichrome , its very thin doesnt look all like your wire . Using a caliper Im seeing .008 " on the coil wire .
Could be stainless steel???
a diameter of .00795 is 32 gauge (from Wikipedia) ... soldering irons (that i have "examined") have very fine gauge nichrome like that. i don't know what the tradeoffs are for using that small a wire other than much higher ohms per foot. Soldering irons plug directly into 120AC so they have more voltage to control.
i use 16 gauge (diameter 0.0508") Nichrome 80 (medical grade) because of the physical stiffness and 0.25 ohm per foot resistance, which pulls a lot of current for faster temperature response -- which can be > 25F per second.
a diameter of .00795 is 32 gauge (from Wikipedia) ... soldering irons (that i have "examined") have very fine gauge nichrome like that. i don't know what the tradeoffs are for using that small a wire other than much higher ohms per foot. Soldering irons plug directly into 120AC so they have more voltage to control.
i use 16 gauge (diameter 0.0508") Nichrome 80 (medical grade) because of the physical stiffness and 0.25 ohm per foot resistance, which pulls a lot of current for faster temperature response -- which can be > 25F per second.
Thanks, guys, i appreciate your comments.
Status Update ...
Model 14 Version 2 Unit 4 !!! First vapor at 9:45pm
This is the first time i have ever made 4 of the same model Bud Toaster -- one for me, one for gf, one for a special friend far away, and one to beat the shit out of for testing and reprogramming and stuff.
Here's all it takes to make Unit 4:
Close up of the heater:
And here's the flip side, the temperature control computer:
As you can see i removed one of the buttons -- two buttons is enough, it turns out. And that third button is extra fabrication steps and effort.
And the finished unit:
i'm finally beginning to have some confidence in the build process. i really like the way the heat shield and 2 sheet metal screws hold the whole thing together. Very simple to assemble and very fast to fabricate. i really, really, really want to get a CNC router. oh boy, oh boy will that ever be so cool.
Now i just need to obsess a little bit more over the version 3 pcb. Do some software debugging -- fixing some math routines has introduced a bit of temperature wobble -- temp wants to drift up after a toke. And then make the 10 units for field testing.
This is looking do-able.
Status Update ...
Model 14 Version 2 Unit 4 !!! First vapor at 9:45pm
This is the first time i have ever made 4 of the same model Bud Toaster -- one for me, one for gf, one for a special friend far away, and one to beat the shit out of for testing and reprogramming and stuff.
Here's all it takes to make Unit 4:
Close up of the heater:
And here's the flip side, the temperature control computer:
As you can see i removed one of the buttons -- two buttons is enough, it turns out. And that third button is extra fabrication steps and effort.
And the finished unit:
i'm finally beginning to have some confidence in the build process. i really like the way the heat shield and 2 sheet metal screws hold the whole thing together. Very simple to assemble and very fast to fabricate. i really, really, really want to get a CNC router. oh boy, oh boy will that ever be so cool.
Now i just need to obsess a little bit more over the version 3 pcb. Do some software debugging -- fixing some math routines has introduced a bit of temperature wobble -- temp wants to drift up after a toke. And then make the 10 units for field testing.
This is looking do-able.
OhTheAgony
here for the chicks
I really like where this is going, nice job so far Hippie.
Thanks.
In my diary, today marks the day i pulled the trigger. At this point i am devoting (almost) full energy into making 20 units. Mill work on the cubes has begun. Whew! Both a relief and a cranking up to the next level at the same time.
And i think i've figured out the battery sled. See, i ordered some 18650s, and they were supposed to have tabs welded on, so i could attach Deans connectors, but the guy at the factory fucked up, and the batterys have no tab. This has forced me to rethink the whole battery issue. Fortunately, there are 18650 battery holders available now. So this is coming together nicely. i should have a prototype to refine by next week.
Also, Fairchild is delivering the FDB8832 again. This is, like, the most perfect MOSFET in the whole fucking world. For this application, anyway.
In my diary, today marks the day i pulled the trigger. At this point i am devoting (almost) full energy into making 20 units. Mill work on the cubes has begun. Whew! Both a relief and a cranking up to the next level at the same time.
And i think i've figured out the battery sled. See, i ordered some 18650s, and they were supposed to have tabs welded on, so i could attach Deans connectors, but the guy at the factory fucked up, and the batterys have no tab. This has forced me to rethink the whole battery issue. Fortunately, there are 18650 battery holders available now. So this is coming together nicely. i should have a prototype to refine by next week.
Also, Fairchild is delivering the FDB8832 again. This is, like, the most perfect MOSFET in the whole fucking world. For this application, anyway.
PoopMachine
Well-Known Member
What are the plans for those 20? Any going to be available to FC members? Ive been following this and thought you were much farther away from production.
midnight rider
Well-Known Member
hippie dickie---
congratulations on your endeavor so far, dude you are like the thomas edison of vapes!!!
thanks for your devotion to a pure vape experience and caring enough to build a first rate product made of high quality safe materials with no compromises, you are da man
wishing you continued success in this project, keep your eyes on the prize
congratulations on your endeavor so far, dude you are like the thomas edison of vapes!!!
thanks for your devotion to a pure vape experience and caring enough to build a first rate product made of high quality safe materials with no compromises, you are da man
wishing you continued success in this project, keep your eyes on the prize
Thanks, guys -- i truly appreciate all your interest in my project to bring my vape to commercial reality.
i'm getting kind of embarrassed, actually ... it's way past time to put up or stfu, i know that.
BUT ... i will sell no Bud Toaster before its/it's time ... (yeah, i lived in the great golden state for a while) ...
See, i take very seriously that when you hold my BT in your hand, you are holding 400F in your hand ... this is serious shit ... i take it seriously ... it must be right. So, i ain't putting no beta product out there except for very controlled situations -- only well know (to me) testers.
My customers are NOT going to be beta testers -- the only product that leaves my shop will be reliable and will deliver the vapor -- guaranteed for 5 years, no questions asked, Priority Mail postage paid both ways. (Unless or until USPS goes out of business, then UPS.)
Reliability is the first goal. That plus all-glass-and-only-glass air path. Small, discreet, portable. Leather case -- which looks like it will be 6.5" x 3.5" x 3" in size (tentative).
The smaller battery (18650s) is a new wrinkle -- new supplier (from China) so i've got to be sure i'm getting the goods. i find i'm only charging the 26650s every other day, so the smaller size should work just fine.
So, PM, i am still pretty far from cranking up the production line -- i figure about 6 months ... it would be great to hit the next Christmas gift buying season ... i should be able to turn out 300 units per month, so the 1000 unit production run planned for this model should be ready by November. It all depends on the field test reports.
But i'm hopeful -- The Cube Rules!
i'm getting kind of embarrassed, actually ... it's way past time to put up or stfu, i know that.
BUT ... i will sell no Bud Toaster before its/it's time ... (yeah, i lived in the great golden state for a while) ...
See, i take very seriously that when you hold my BT in your hand, you are holding 400F in your hand ... this is serious shit ... i take it seriously ... it must be right. So, i ain't putting no beta product out there except for very controlled situations -- only well know (to me) testers.
My customers are NOT going to be beta testers -- the only product that leaves my shop will be reliable and will deliver the vapor -- guaranteed for 5 years, no questions asked, Priority Mail postage paid both ways. (Unless or until USPS goes out of business, then UPS.)
Reliability is the first goal. That plus all-glass-and-only-glass air path. Small, discreet, portable. Leather case -- which looks like it will be 6.5" x 3.5" x 3" in size (tentative).
The smaller battery (18650s) is a new wrinkle -- new supplier (from China) so i've got to be sure i'm getting the goods. i find i'm only charging the 26650s every other day, so the smaller size should work just fine.
So, PM, i am still pretty far from cranking up the production line -- i figure about 6 months ... it would be great to hit the next Christmas gift buying season ... i should be able to turn out 300 units per month, so the 1000 unit production run planned for this model should be ready by November. It all depends on the field test reports.
But i'm hopeful -- The Cube Rules!
midnight rider
Well-Known Member
hippie dickie
if you are referring to the 18650 rechargeable lithium batteries for use i wholeheartedly agree with the choice. have never found any other battery
type that is more powerful, more durable, lightweight or efficient to operate.
i have an l.e.d. flashlight that uses a 18650 battery, i use it every night and the battery lasts for weeks or even months (naturally a vape will be creating heat and will use much more battery power up but just throwin it out there to say how long these last). shelf life is incredible too, unlike nimh rechargeables.
i also get them from china--very inexpensive too. only issue i've had is some of them have the "nipple" on the positive end and some don't. is this what you were referring to when you said some have tabs and some don't? snag comes if i want to charge a battery without a nipple in a charger designed for a battery with a nipple, battery is too short to make contact. might be ok to use aluminum foil in between to make the contact but i haven't chanced it...
anyhow forgive the long winded response but just wanted to say the 18650 is a fantastic battery option in my very humble opinion
when i first found fc and saw the mflb i thought wow if that only used a 18650 i'd be all over it
not knocking the mflb at all, would be the next one i would get if i could
and elmofuzz's suggestion of the 123 batteries is a good one too, have other lights that use them and they are very good too
if you are referring to the 18650 rechargeable lithium batteries for use i wholeheartedly agree with the choice. have never found any other battery
type that is more powerful, more durable, lightweight or efficient to operate.
i have an l.e.d. flashlight that uses a 18650 battery, i use it every night and the battery lasts for weeks or even months (naturally a vape will be creating heat and will use much more battery power up but just throwin it out there to say how long these last). shelf life is incredible too, unlike nimh rechargeables.
i also get them from china--very inexpensive too. only issue i've had is some of them have the "nipple" on the positive end and some don't. is this what you were referring to when you said some have tabs and some don't? snag comes if i want to charge a battery without a nipple in a charger designed for a battery with a nipple, battery is too short to make contact. might be ok to use aluminum foil in between to make the contact but i haven't chanced it...
anyhow forgive the long winded response but just wanted to say the 18650 is a fantastic battery option in my very humble opinion
when i first found fc and saw the mflb i thought wow if that only used a 18650 i'd be all over it
not knocking the mflb at all, would be the next one i would get if i could
and elmofuzz's suggestion of the 123 batteries is a good one too, have other lights that use them and they are very good too
the battery pack i use now is using A123Systems 26650 batteries. Two cells in series to give 6.6v. These give about 70 minutes of run time, so 10 vape sessions with a 7 minute timeout. Both size cells can deliver 70 amps continuous. i love them to bits. So i figure i can step down to the small size with no performance problem.
the welded tab is a nickel plated metal piece about 1/4" wide by 2" long that is spot welded on the ends. much easier to solder. i tried soldering to the ends of some of my 26650 and it was not an easy process. maybe my iron is too wimpy at only 35w. my effort is to reduce fabrication steps and time to get the production run as simple and fast as possible.
the welded tab is a nickel plated metal piece about 1/4" wide by 2" long that is spot welded on the ends. much easier to solder. i tried soldering to the ends of some of my 26650 and it was not an easy process. maybe my iron is too wimpy at only 35w. my effort is to reduce fabrication steps and time to get the production run as simple and fast as possible.
PoopMachine
Well-Known Member
Hippie.. if you decide any of those 20 are ready for public consumption, Id love to have one. Id even be willing to buy one with the understanding its a beta unit, etc, etc.
This thing looks awesome.. huge props for all your hard work.
This thing looks awesome.. huge props for all your hard work.
i love my Roomba. (3 cats and a gf who thinks she lives in a self-cleaning house)
i'll definitely use your soldering technique if it comes to that. Thanks!
i'll definitely use your soldering technique if it comes to that. Thanks!
Wow. You are amazing. I love the DIY ethic. I know it's been suggested before, but being a successful fund-raiser myself, I can't recommend KickStarter enough. It would be a great way to get capital and gauge your ordering status. I for one would LOVE to pre-order one of these and I'm positive a lot of others in here would, too.
Great job. You're awesome.
Great job. You're awesome.
VWFringe
Naruto Fan
i hate it when this thread drops off the first page, hehe
I was hoping to get your thoughts...and thought you'd like this...
electronic temp control for an e-cig mod, where they're subbing 400 ss mesh for wick, and winding it with kanthal instead of nichrome...nice packaged product, with i think an 18650 in the handle...dreaming of a day when i can pop on and off different heads, haha
any of these pictures will take you to the guy in France's, and there's another down below called Raidy, good stuff - wondering what you think about their electronics,
http://www.google.com/images?um=1&h...&sa=1&q="modulra"+atomizer&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/132663-all-my-mods-part1-2.html
i like raidy's packages better, like the cigar, but the other guy's is just spock, it's so ...clean
-------------------------------
and, what really prompted me to write, is that raidy suggests an atomizer that looks vaguely familiar...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/132663-all-my-mods-part1-130.html
maybe interchangeable heads isn't what i need, just some rolled up mesh and a different temp setting in yours! haha
I was hoping to get your thoughts...and thought you'd like this...
electronic temp control for an e-cig mod, where they're subbing 400 ss mesh for wick, and winding it with kanthal instead of nichrome...nice packaged product, with i think an 18650 in the handle...dreaming of a day when i can pop on and off different heads, haha
any of these pictures will take you to the guy in France's, and there's another down below called Raidy, good stuff - wondering what you think about their electronics,
http://www.google.com/images?um=1&h...&sa=1&q="modulra"+atomizer&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/132663-all-my-mods-part1-2.html
i like raidy's packages better, like the cigar, but the other guy's is just spock, it's so ...clean
-------------------------------
and, what really prompted me to write, is that raidy suggests an atomizer that looks vaguely familiar...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/132663-all-my-mods-part1-130.html
maybe interchangeable heads isn't what i need, just some rolled up mesh and a different temp setting in yours! haha
plrbrs said:
i'll definitely look into how KickStarter operates ... i'd been thinking that i'll just self-fund (via credit card debt) until initial testing delivers a final verdict. In truth, i just haven't thought that far ahead. i appreciate your comments, thank-you.
@VWFringe ... thanks, bro. Awesome thread, Raidy does some very fine work. i've never been a cigarette smoker (well, i smoked one pack in college so i could tolerate the cloud of smoke in lecture, but never after that) and so i've pretty much ignored the liquid nicotine devices -- you picked two great threads to get me caught up ... i had thought they were using ultrasonics to atomize the liquid, rather than heat, like in a cannabis vaporizer.
Are you referring to post #1317? Where Raidy describes the Hot Air Atomizer ("atty")? Yeah, looks a lot like a typical cannabis convection (hot air) vape, and (almost) all glass.
The stainless steel mesh atty reminds me of the MFLB vape.
RE: electronics -- Raidy needs to embrace surface mount technology to get the size down -- that one picture showed through-hole components around the processor chip.
For comparison of electronics: The Bud Toaster can't possibly run with only one battery (3.7v). As i explained somewhere in the middle of this thread, i learned (from a kind and generous reader) much more about MOSFETs and the voltage needed on the gate to allow current flow without resistance. This tip (and change of a couple of components -- as indicated in the updated circuit diagram in post #1) eliminated any and all heat being generated by the MOSFET -- this had been a major problem in the beginning that i put off long enough for a solution to magically appear -- (makes me wonder).
Okay, i just started looking at the French dude's work ... wow! He's made it to surface mount. i'm running out of free time, so i'll have to look at the ULRA in detail a little later.
And, finally, RE: Bud Toaster Model 14, Version 3 (!!!) -- procuring some final parts now ... hope to have the first 10 of the first 20 units done in two weeks.
So, while i'm waiting to begin fabrication i've been revisiting the control software. i've come up with an idea for a binary algorithm for the initial power-on to reaching vape temp in the minimum amount of time and to eliminate the overshoot.
And i think i've got a scheme to dynamically adjust the PID gains to eliminate all temperature drift. These newer units can deliver a lot more current, so temp wobble has cropped up as an issue. Again.
Yeah, i'm going to go with 2x18650 -- at least for these next 10 units.
Got the first batch of cubes today -- 32 mahogany and 1 cherry. And 20 copies of the new motherboard, and i have enough parts on hand for 10 units -- except for the 10uf capacitors -- somehow they weren't added to the last parts order.
it's hard to believe i'm actually doing this --- i must be nuts -- seems to be a compulsion at this point -- has been for several months, actually.
Got the first batch of cubes today -- 32 mahogany and 1 cherry. And 20 copies of the new motherboard, and i have enough parts on hand for 10 units -- except for the 10uf capacitors -- somehow they weren't added to the last parts order.
it's hard to believe i'm actually doing this --- i must be nuts -- seems to be a compulsion at this point -- has been for several months, actually.