The Bud Toaster - (currently: Model 14, version 3)
- Thread starter Hippie Dickie
- Start date
Bubar
Well-Known Member
Here we go. Finally images. I broke my oven tube tho right before the pics. I'll grab a spare tomorrow. Here the whole thing.
Screenshot. Note, I only roll with metric units.
I also have a version that has a progress bar.
Down the Barrel.
Wanna kno what happens when you short really bad with 12v? Glass melt. Notice the bulb shape and the impressions of the coil. Good thing I didn't burn my house down. lol
I got pcb and parts ordered. Hopefully in a week or so I'll have some nice v1.0 prototypes.
Screenshot. Note, I only roll with metric units.
I also have a version that has a progress bar.
Down the Barrel.
Wanna kno what happens when you short really bad with 12v? Glass melt. Notice the bulb shape and the impressions of the coil. Good thing I didn't burn my house down. lol
I got pcb and parts ordered. Hopefully in a week or so I'll have some nice v1.0 prototypes.
Hurray! First vapors at 7PM tonight ...
Now it just needs the top disc and the stainless steel and leather skin and i'll have a PRODUCTION PROTOTYPE for the Thanksgiving week celebrations that start on Monday night ... i really, really think i'm past the PRE-production prototype stage to a model that i can actually build a couple hundred of ... i think.
Oh yeah: Also, this one is heating up 2F per second faster than the model i've been using for the last month or two. Must be more copper on the pcb that is enhancing the current flow -- using the same batteries and same gauge power cable.
Now it just needs the top disc and the stainless steel and leather skin and i'll have a PRODUCTION PROTOTYPE for the Thanksgiving week celebrations that start on Monday night ... i really, really think i'm past the PRE-production prototype stage to a model that i can actually build a couple hundred of ... i think.
Oh yeah: Also, this one is heating up 2F per second faster than the model i've been using for the last month or two. Must be more copper on the pcb that is enhancing the current flow -- using the same batteries and same gauge power cable.
stinkbud
Well-Known Member
Ive been lurking here for months but this last post of yours got me to register and join the fun hippue dickie!
I am staying clean in anticipation of a pre employment test, but once I get that job I want, I may just be treating myself to a bud-toaster...which incidentally will be my first foray into the world of vaping.
Keep up the good work, I will be watching your progress
I am staying clean in anticipation of a pre employment test, but once I get that job I want, I may just be treating myself to a bud-toaster...which incidentally will be my first foray into the world of vaping.
Keep up the good work, I will be watching your progress
stinkbud -- welcome to fc and best of luck on the new job.
Note to Bubar ... the external snubber diode is totally unneeded -- the Fairchild MOSFET has a build-in source-drain diode that works just fine. Saves $1.64 on parts.
Now i need to make some mods to the software to get my adaptive PID algorithm tuned up -- it is being too tentative when the coil drops below SETPOINT and takes 5 to 10 seconds to climb back up -- it needs a quick dose of MAX power and it will be back at SETPOINT in a second. i think.
Note to Bubar ... the external snubber diode is totally unneeded -- the Fairchild MOSFET has a build-in source-drain diode that works just fine. Saves $1.64 on parts.
Now i need to make some mods to the software to get my adaptive PID algorithm tuned up -- it is being too tentative when the coil drops below SETPOINT and takes 5 to 10 seconds to climb back up -- it needs a quick dose of MAX power and it will be back at SETPOINT in a second. i think.
really fine ... pretty routine these days to have a perfect vape session everytime ... i am still totally amazed how simple it is to have a vaporizer with computer controlled temperature -- two ICs, a MOSFET, a k-type thermocouple ... and some code.
Ash
vaporist
HD, It looks like you're really onto something here. Can you answer a few really basic questions about your design?
1. Does the BT use a whip?
2. Since the heating chamber seems to be a test-tube with an opening on just one end, where is the air intake?
3. How does the BT perform with really big draws? I can see how this design could heat up the air in the tube when there's no air-flow, but does the heating coil really have enough output to sustain vaping temps during long draws?
Thanks.
1. Does the BT use a whip?
2. Since the heating chamber seems to be a test-tube with an opening on just one end, where is the air intake?
3. How does the BT perform with really big draws? I can see how this design could heat up the air in the tube when there's no air-flow, but does the heating coil really have enough output to sustain vaping temps during long draws?
Thanks.
stinkbud
Well-Known Member
I know its early yet, but do you have a price point set for the finished product...but its would be nice to know what to start putting away 
Are we talking Launch-Box, Purple Days or SSV kinda costs?
Either way, I love what I am seeing on this thread and, like I said, I think I am looking at my first vape here.
Great work HD!
One question...is the heating tube fragile? I see you busted one recently. Would pyrex or even some sort of a metal tube work as an alternative or is your heating coil dependent on a specific type of tube?
Are we talking Launch-Box, Purple Days or SSV kinda costs?
Either way, I love what I am seeing on this thread and, like I said, I think I am looking at my first vape here.
Great work HD!
One question...is the heating tube fragile? I see you busted one recently. Would pyrex or even some sort of a metal tube work as an alternative or is your heating coil dependent on a specific type of tube?
Thank-you for your comments and questions. Answers here:Ash said:HD, It looks like you're really onto something here. Can you answer a few really basic questions about your design?
1. Does the BT use a whip?
2. Since the heating chamber seems to be a test-tube with an opening on just one end, where is the air intake?
3. How does the BT perform with really big draws? I can see how this design could heat up the air in the tube when there's no air-flow, but does the heating coil really have enough output to sustain vaping temps during long draws?
Thanks.
(1) Yes. The Bud Toaster uses a pyrex (borosilicate) test tube that is 1/2" diameter by 4" long.
i have also tried a 3/4" diameter by 6" long test tube -- i think i like the big tube better, but the last time i used one was many versions ago -- that tube got used as a pipe and got broken. i need to drill another one for this holiday week and try it again.
i say drill because there is no metal screen. i put a pattern of seven 0.75mm holes in the bottom of the whip test tube. This is a somewhat involved process that takes some setup so i do it sporadically -- cant just flip a switch.
(2) The bud is loaded into a flat bottom borosilicate vial that is inserted into the heating chamber (also borosilicate glass). The air flows between the two glass walls, into the bottom of the vial, through the bud to vaporize the THC, and up into the whip.
There is also a pattern of seven 0.75mm holes drilled in the bottom of the vial to allow air to enter through the bottom and draw out the open top.
Here is a picture of the vial where you can see the holes in the bottom:
There is only glass (and bud) in the airflow - no metal, ceramic or plastic in the Hippie Dickie Bud Toaster. EVER!
(3) The heater has no problem matching any volume of air flow -- that is because the batteries can deliver 120 amps of current as a surge, 70 amps continuous. The heater draws around 12 amps (0.5 ohm into 6vdc). So, a resounding YES, this heater can keep up with the thermal demand of a long draw.
i love these batteries - nothing else like them available right now.
In fact, i see the temperature rise as i take a toke -- note: this is an temperature control algorithm bug, but it demonstrates that the heater can meet demand.
After 7 years of using a "fixed" temperature design, where the temp would drop 50F with the first toke, and have to wait for the temp to recover, and then having it get heat saturated and become too hot, this computer controller is a revelation to me.
After 7 years of waiting 15 mintues for a "fixed" temperature design to reach vaping temperature, i have a heater that is at vape temperature in 40 seconds, with the first satisfying hit 120 seconds after power on.
So i say, fuck Ohm's Law -- it's a linear characterization in a decidedly non-linear world.
However the speed (and hence volume) of the draw is really dependent on the physics of the plant material -- there is a certain "residency time" that the hot air needs to be in contact with the trichomes to melt the waxy coating and expose the THC to the hot air flow -- then the vaporization can occur.
That is, i like a long slow draw, but i sometimes do fast puffs to test different styles and effects.
i like to watch a thick vapor streaming into the whip and i like to see the vapor when i exhale. That's what the Bud Toaster is designed to deliver -- what i like.
When i use the bigger whip tube, i can fill it with vapor and pass it to GF like a shooter. i like that, too. Next time i'm in glass procurement mode i may get some even larger tubes to test.
Regarding your question about tube fragility --- that busted one is from Bubar's experimental setup where the temperature got out of control and melted it. i do use pyrex (borosilicate) glass.stinkbud said:I know its early yet, but do you have a price point set for the finished product...but its would be nice to know what to start putting away
Are we talking Launch-Box, Purple Days or SSV kinda costs?
Either way, I love what I am seeing on this thread and, like I said, I think I am looking at my first vape here.
Great work HD!
One question...is the heating tube fragile? I see you busted one recently. Would pyrex or even some sort of a metal tube work as an alternative or is your heating coil dependent on a specific type of tube?
The heater coil is not dependent on a specific type of tube, but as i mentioned in the previous post, i never use anything but glass in the vapor path, so a metal tube is NOT acceptable in a genuine Bud Toaster.
Regarding price. For pricing i'm thinking high end Volcano price. That is, the price for a Bud Toaster that i make will be $500 (the price of an ounce of bud), which includes vaporizer, 3 sets of glassware (oven tube, vial and whip), two battery packs, charger, AC adapter, car adapter, and carrying case - probably a nice wood box, or maybe a leather case. When you buy the kit, you can get a second vaporizer (and 3 sets of glassware) for $200.
Or you can build your own from the details in the construction thread i will post "soon". The design is "open source" hardware and software. That is, no patent restricting access or use.
Or, if this vape is as good as i think it is, you can wait for China to crank them out for $25.
In short, the design is open source, but my labor is not free.
Ash
vaporist
Thanks. I've got it now - there are three borosilicate tubes 
.
The glass "whip" is a a great idea. Do you have a name for this yet? You can't really call it a whip. Maybe "draw tube"? And, now that I finally understand that that the heating chamber and the herb chamber are separate and that the air heats up in the space between, I have to confess the design looks brilliant.
With your algorithm controlled heater and extremely compact design, this could be a game changer if you're able to produce enough of them. This seems like more of a 1 to 3 person vape, rather than a party vape, which I think we need more of in the market. What quantity of herb do you load for optimal performance? How does it do with PD-sized loads? I think that to be a premium vape in this niche a vape needs to be efficient and to perform well with small loads. From the expected price I saw you post earlier, this is definitely going to be a high-end device.
-A
. The glass "whip" is a a great idea. Do you have a name for this yet? You can't really call it a whip. Maybe "draw tube"? And, now that I finally understand that that the heating chamber and the herb chamber are separate and that the air heats up in the space between, I have to confess the design looks brilliant.
With your algorithm controlled heater and extremely compact design, this could be a game changer if you're able to produce enough of them. This seems like more of a 1 to 3 person vape, rather than a party vape, which I think we need more of in the market. What quantity of herb do you load for optimal performance? How does it do with PD-sized loads? I think that to be a premium vape in this niche a vape needs to be efficient and to perform well with small loads. From the expected price I saw you post earlier, this is definitely going to be a high-end device.
-A
Thanks, Ash.
i'm awful at names -- it took gf and me five days to name our kid -- it is a "challenge" for me to name program variables (sometimes). Whip is common terminology and the function is the same, so i've been using that name.
Yes, the Bud Toaster is a one to three person device -- mostly one person - mostly me. The limit on people is the size of the vial and the quantity of bud in one session. Four will work, but i need to refill too often.
i'm too old to party anymore and nobody i know uses cannabis and thinks i'm, oh, i don't know -- a hippie, perhaps, for using cannabis. Where as regular Merlot consumption is, you know, "normal" and a-okay.
And, of course, cannabis is illegal - there is that little matter.
Game changer? i totally agree -- i see iPod quantities. An all glass vaporizer that is this quick and efficient (at extracting the THC, not the efficacy of the result - which is user dependent, not device dependent) is totally unique and new. A perfect medical device -- removes any reservation about having to smoke the cannabis to realize its medical benefit.
i've never used any other vaporizer, so i can't compare load sizes. That previous picture (post #285) shows a typical load next to a US quarter. That delivers a dozen "visible vapor exhale" hits. Then the vapor is too thin to continue, and it's time to reload. Or sit and smile, then reload.
i'm awful at names -- it took gf and me five days to name our kid -- it is a "challenge" for me to name program variables (sometimes). Whip is common terminology and the function is the same, so i've been using that name.
Yes, the Bud Toaster is a one to three person device -- mostly one person - mostly me. The limit on people is the size of the vial and the quantity of bud in one session. Four will work, but i need to refill too often.
i'm too old to party anymore and nobody i know uses cannabis and thinks i'm, oh, i don't know -- a hippie, perhaps, for using cannabis. Where as regular Merlot consumption is, you know, "normal" and a-okay.
And, of course, cannabis is illegal - there is that little matter.
Game changer? i totally agree -- i see iPod quantities. An all glass vaporizer that is this quick and efficient (at extracting the THC, not the efficacy of the result - which is user dependent, not device dependent) is totally unique and new. A perfect medical device -- removes any reservation about having to smoke the cannabis to realize its medical benefit.
i've never used any other vaporizer, so i can't compare load sizes. That previous picture (post #285) shows a typical load next to a US quarter. That delivers a dozen "visible vapor exhale" hits. Then the vapor is too thin to continue, and it's time to reload. Or sit and smile, then reload.
the newest version of the Bud Toaster reports for duty and enters service:
Now for a visual tour of this model:
Front:
Back - i have a fit and trim issue to work out where the cable exits the body:
Bottom - alignment issue -- cherry is so dense the drill bit won't go straight:
Top and looking into the oven tube:
Bottom perspective:
Top perspective:
i haven't really finished the cherry to the desired level of sanding and polish -- just took off the rough and sharp edges.
Now for a visual tour of this model:
Front:
Back - i have a fit and trim issue to work out where the cable exits the body:
Bottom - alignment issue -- cherry is so dense the drill bit won't go straight:
Top and looking into the oven tube:
Bottom perspective:
Top perspective:
i haven't really finished the cherry to the desired level of sanding and polish -- just took off the rough and sharp edges.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
It's amazing how far you have come! That little thing looks cool.
bluntfaced
I'm El Diablo Baby!!!
Looks good man!
Hey Hippie,
The unit is starting to look really great, cant wait to see a video of it in action!
Cheers!
The unit is starting to look really great, cant wait to see a video of it in action!
Cheers!
greenmonster2420
Well-Known Member
This design is badass. I second the video request!
i'm trying to develop an adaptive PID, where the coefficients are adjusted based on the response of the algorithm, rather than trying to come up with fixed values for each of the PID terms. Now that i have settled on the physical construction this is my next focus.
i got a SOIC clip to be able to update the PIC in the circuit, but i have to figure out how to isolate the PIC from the rest of the circuitry -- the PICKit can't identify the PIC and can't program it once the PIC is soldered into the pcb. Do you have any advice/suggestions?
i think PIC pin 4 that connects to the MAX is being held low and can't be raised to start programming - maybe it needs a 1k ohm resistor to isolate the pin???
Also, the external diode is definitely not needed - i think the MOSFET is running cooler without it???
i got a SOIC clip to be able to update the PIC in the circuit, but i have to figure out how to isolate the PIC from the rest of the circuitry -- the PICKit can't identify the PIC and can't program it once the PIC is soldered into the pcb. Do you have any advice/suggestions?
i think PIC pin 4 that connects to the MAX is being held low and can't be raised to start programming - maybe it needs a 1k ohm resistor to isolate the pin???
Also, the external diode is definitely not needed - i think the MOSFET is running cooler without it???
Progress
'Socratic Existentialist, MD'
Hello HippieDickie!
Your device looks more and more promising as it develops.
It seems likely that it will be a very well-tested durable and functional unit whenever it sees production (if you get to the point where that is feasible and desired).
It looks like you could have the cleanable portable vacation unit for which I have been searching.
Kudos to you and keep it up!
Thanks for contributing to efforts to perpetuate technological developments for combustion-fuckers (and for sharing your process/discoveries with us).
Toke it easy!
Your device looks more and more promising as it develops.
It seems likely that it will be a very well-tested durable and functional unit whenever it sees production (if you get to the point where that is feasible and desired).
It looks like you could have the cleanable portable vacation unit for which I have been searching.
Kudos to you and keep it up!
Thanks for contributing to efforts to perpetuate technological developments for combustion-fuckers (and for sharing your process/discoveries with us).
Toke it easy!
Thank-you and you're welcome.
Definitely cleanable -- the glassware is very cheap and easily disposed/replaced - roughly $0.25 per piece in quantity.
And the Bud Toaster does get extensively tested as my desktop companion. Software needs some tweaking. And a few new functions. i'm trying to explore all the possible failure modes and mitigate them.
Open source hardware - is that even a viable concept? What does that do to patent law?
i've got to do one more handmade pcb - i had to swap the bottom side component to make assembly easier. i think i'll make 3 pcb boards at once this time. i'm want to see how fast i can crank out a Bud Toaster.
Definitely cleanable -- the glassware is very cheap and easily disposed/replaced - roughly $0.25 per piece in quantity.
And the Bud Toaster does get extensively tested as my desktop companion. Software needs some tweaking. And a few new functions. i'm trying to explore all the possible failure modes and mitigate them.
Open source hardware - is that even a viable concept? What does that do to patent law?
i've got to do one more handmade pcb - i had to swap the bottom side component to make assembly easier. i think i'll make 3 pcb boards at once this time. i'm want to see how fast i can crank out a Bud Toaster.
Bubar
Well-Known Member
I really wouldn't worry about the IP too much. Most "digital" branded vapes use PID. There a tons of vapes, including many that are built in places that could care less about IP laws in the US or Canada. Also, for many embedded designers, vapes are really trivial. It's just a PID heater that holds a (fairly high) setpoint. PID has been used so extensively, that unless you are a control theory Phd I doubt you will have anything patentable about the control algorithm. Not to mention the $10K it costs to get a product to patent. There are also already several very general patents for marijuana vaporizers. They have claims like : The marijuana is heated to produce vapor. Basically the party is over in terms of patents. I would say just sell your vape and not worry about that. The patents will probably expire before weed becomes legal.
ICSP is a problem sometimes. one of the ways I flashed soic was to clip it down onto a soic to dip adapter. But that only works once, lol.
You should google ICSP and Pic12f683. I am going to be making a soic prototype sometime early next week (once the smt parts arrive). I'll let you know if I figure it out. I imagine it just requires having the ICSP lines not connected to any logic gates that would prevent you from sending a signal to the pic ICSP ports, like the SDO port of the maxx6675. The professional way is to use jumpers. One other way is to just cut the lines to the pic. I usually just take some clippers and scrape across the connection. After you're done just resolder across the connection.
ICSP is a problem sometimes. one of the ways I flashed soic was to clip it down onto a soic to dip adapter. But that only works once, lol.
You should google ICSP and Pic12f683. I am going to be making a soic prototype sometime early next week (once the smt parts arrive). I'll let you know if I figure it out. I imagine it just requires having the ICSP lines not connected to any logic gates that would prevent you from sending a signal to the pic ICSP ports, like the SDO port of the maxx6675. The professional way is to use jumpers. One other way is to just cut the lines to the pic. I usually just take some clippers and scrape across the connection. After you're done just resolder across the connection.
oh, i totally agree about IP issues ... i don't plan to try to patent (been there, done that -- in early '70s), i'm just ruminating about IP and open source hardware in general ... i don't think patents provide any protection for a trival/small scale guy like me.
re: in circuit serial programming -- i downloaded the 41204G.pdf that describes the process. i didn't know if you had solved that problem yet. i have this SOIC clip that totally works before the PIC is soldered in, but i'm still changing the code and would like to do it in-circuit. Eventually, i want to buy the board already populated. just thought i'd ask.
re: in circuit serial programming -- i downloaded the 41204G.pdf that describes the process. i didn't know if you had solved that problem yet. i have this SOIC clip that totally works before the PIC is soldered in, but i'm still changing the code and would like to do it in-circuit. Eventually, i want to buy the board already populated. just thought i'd ask.