The Arizer Air

[OF]

The point of my post is that Arizer batteries are not seconds or culls or underweight, IMR, I'm not sure, but prima facie evidence indicates some of their batteries are not equal.

My experience informs me Arizer is laying specs down for the batteries they'll accept from a vendor.
And IMR does not seem as picky.

Agreed, that's what I 'took away' from it anyway.

IMR (whom I use a lot, along with Orbatronics) has no direct source of the genuine article. They buy what they think/hope is not counterfeit but mistakes happen and crooks are looking for openings. You can be sure Panasonic never allowed a sub standard cell 'out the door' with deceptive labeling, but spending a little time searching the net turns up tales of very good fakes. You have to buy from trusted sources and even be willing to test what you buy (which I also do a far bit of the time, testers are cheap and accurate) sometimes.

I use a lot (couple dozen?) NCR18650Bs in various applications. They are current 'state of the art' for capacity while still providing reasonable current ability (4.8 Amps continuous) for most things. Devices needing more current get different 'batteries' (cells) at the expense of run time (always a trade off).

I could, of course, get a lame one next time from IMR, but so far........

I suspect Arizer also tests before sales, probably not every piece of course, but a statistically significant sample of each shipment.......they have a lot at stake. A batch of weak 18650s sent out in a production run could be extremely expensive to replace?

Fortunately the average Air owner only needs a few spares? The extra few dollars buys peace of mind as well I think. Not a good place to 'go cheap'.

Regards to all.

OF

 

[beyond6strings]

I just got my Air as part of the Buy One Get One Free program and I am a happy camper.

Really surprised at how smooth the vapor is through the short tubes. A much better portable version for me while I'm out and about than the Solo. I've got a Vera Bradley bag I've retired from using as a capo bag that is a perfect fit for a couple of filled stems, a stash for ABV, the Air, and the charging plug.

 

[LabPong]

I got my after-market batteries from IMR.

I should of been more specific. Since I have Air's and Air2's. The battery I linked to would be the battery that comes with the Argo's and Air2's. I have purchased many of the Panasonic's from IMR....and I do not notice any difference physically or in performance.

The original batteries that came with the Air's......were garbage compared to what is standard with Arizer now.

I just ordered 2 new Air's from the BYG-Air free deal....so it will be interesting to see what they are using now with the original Air compared to what I got back in July of 2017.

 

[Cuthbert J Twillie]

Here's a little more data for what it's worth:

The original batteries that came with the Air's......were garbage compared to what is standard with Arizer now.

Lab is right in a way.
I wouldn't call the original Air (I) batteries garbage but after the Air II came out Arizer did upgrade their Air (I) batteries.
If you get the new version of Air (I) batteries you'll find the designation "A-1" on the barrel of the battery.
I found that these batteries are larger in diameter than the originals and they weigh about one gram more.
They do perform better (generally when I say perform better I mean diminished start up times and longer battery life before recharge).
I found all the after-market batteries were heavier than the original equipment (OE) but they did not outperform the OE despite the extra weight and in many cases the diameter was smaller on the after-market batteries.
"Of" hit this one on the mark:

There's also a theory that heavier 18650s perform better, not sure about that one since I've weighed a lot of similar cells and not found it so.

Some of the after-market (AM) batteries performed as well as the OE and some were markedly lower in performance than OE (weight did not seem to be the critical factor in performance).

So as "Of" said:

Fortunately the average Air owner only needs a few spares? The extra few dollars buys peace of mind as well I think. Not a good place to 'go cheap'.

Even Li-ion batteries wear out.
If you're using your Air (or Air II) as a daily driver and you've got a three battery rotation going I'd recommend replacing your batteries when you find your blue light blinking rapidly but not going solid for longer than 15 seconds.
This seems (based on my extensive experience with the Air (I)) to indicate it's time to replace the battery in question (with my use this is around a year).

 

[OF]

Even Li-ion batteries wear out.
If you're using your Air (or Air II) as a daily driver and you've got a three battery rotation going I'd recommend replacing your batteries when you find your blue light blinking rapidly but not going solid for longer than 15 seconds.
This seems (based on my extensive experience with the Air (I)) to indicate it's time to replace the battery in question (with my use this is around a year).

Indeed they do wear out, and faster than many (most) other chemistries. And the harder you 'push' them, the quicker they die. Even storing them 100% charged (especially at higher temperatures) can 'wear them out' without ever using them!

this is why you get 'new' products with partially charge, typically about 60 or 70%. Or should (suspect any that don't come that way).

I'm not sure about the above test, I've never tried it, but the traditional measure of decay is in capacity (run time). Cells giving shorter run times (total sessions) are close to the grave. Or recycling bin.

Makers, in general, design around a guideline of '300 cycles'. That is 300 recharges. They feel pressure, from Sales, to get longest possible run times so they push the 'battery' as hard as they can and still hit 300 cycles (after all, Sales doesn't want to replace under warranty.....). This means charging to as high a voltage as realistic, typically 4.20 plus or minus .05 (4.15 to 4.25). Dropping that 10% (less than half a session) will DOUBLE the cycle life to 600, a further drop doubles it again. Yes, simply stopping charge 'a bit early', less than a session, will give you four times the useful life. This is easy to do with Air cells using external chargers than give readouts of progress.

Good, IMO easy to follow, information on the topic here (pay attention to the stuff around table 4):
https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

So they don't really wear out as much as we kill them off young. Needlessly. Better 'battery management' gives MUCH longer service life. Makers, of course, would prefer you kill them off quick (but not too quick) and rush back and buy more?

OF

 

[Cuthbert J Twillie]

I'm not an EE but somewhere along the line I picked up these bits of info.
1.Don't drain your vape batteries, on an Air (I) recharge when you get to orange instead of red.
On Air II recharge when you have a slice of battery left as opposed to waiting until your battery icon is on empty.
2. Don't let your batteries overcharge when recharging, if it takes two hours to recharge, pull them at two hours.

If I've recalled that incorrectly please correct me.

 

[beyond6strings]

I'm not an EE but somewhere along the line I picked up these bits of info.
1.Don't drain your vape batteries, on an Air (I) recharge when you get to orange instead of red.
On Air II recharge when you have a slice of battery left as opposed to waiting until your battery icon is on empty.
2. Don't let your batteries overcharge when recharging, if it takes two hours to recharge, pull them at two hours.

If I've recalled that incorrectly please correct me.

From what I just read in the Air I manual, I just got one, there is no orange setting as it relates to battery charge. It only blinks red when it's low.

 

[Cuthbert J Twillie]

When you fire up your Air(I) a battery indicator light will go off before you set the temp.
Green means full charge, next level of charge is a pinkish tone, then an orange tone then red.
What I'm suggesting is recharge when you get to orange.
So if you're on your third bowl and you switch on and the battery indicator is orange. Shut it down and re-charge your battery. Don't drain it down to the red indicator.
This is also why you want more than one battery.

This is part of the not killing your battery that "Of' is referring to above.

 

[beyond6strings]

When you fire up your Air(I) a battery indicator light will go off before you set the temp.
Green means full charge, next level of charge is a pinkish tone, then an orange tone then red.
What I'm suggesting is recharge when you get to orange.
So if you're on your third bowl and you switch on and the battery indicator is orange. Shut it down and re-charge your battery. Don't drain it down to the red indicator.
This is also why you want more than one battery.

This is part of the not killing your battery that "Of' is referring to above.

This is why I love the forum. There's nowhere in the manual that says what that beginning indicator light means. Thank you. EDIT: just checked and mine is orange so it's on the charger.

And while I've got you here-can I use my Nitecore Intellicharger to charge the 18650's from Arizer? From what I've read on the Nitecore manual I should be good, but I don't want to void the warranty by charging with something wrong.

I'm going to order some accessories in a couple of weeks and it would be nice if I can get a couple of extra batteries like I have for my Lil' Bud.

 

[jpdnkstr]

This is why I love the forum. There's nowhere in the manual that says what that beginning indicator light means. Thank you. EDIT: just checked and mine is orange so it's on the charger.

And while I've got you here-can I use my Nitecore Intellicharger to charge the 18650's from Arizer? From what I've read on the Nitecore manual I should be good, but I don't want to void the warranty by charging with something wrong.

I'm going to order some accessories in a couple of weeks and it would be nice if I can get a couple of extra batteries like I have for my Lil' Bud.

the nitecore charger will work just fine for those batteries. I have an older one and I've been using it for years with great results.

 

[Madri-Gal]

When you fire up your Air(I) a battery indicator light will go off before you set the temp.
Green means full charge, next level of charge is a pinkish tone, then an orange tone then red.
What I'm suggesting is recharge when you get to orange.
So if you're on your third bowl and you switch on and the battery indicator is orange. Shut it down and re-charge your battery. Don't drain it down to the red indicator.
This is also why you want more than one battery.

This is part of the not killing your battery that "Of' is referring to above.

I'm sitting here holding my brand new Air, trying to learn your post. Thank you for the marvelous template. It's helpful, and I'm sure when followed will extend the life of my vape.

 

[Madri-Gal]

My stem from @Ed's TnT arrived, and it is perfection itself. I wanted the Blackwood, and it is more than I dreamed of. It has the feel and luster of silk, and instantly upgrades the look of my Air. It is stunning. Now I want more. These are too delicious to stop at one.

 

[arb]

My stem from @Ed's TnT arrived, and it is perfection itself. I wanted the Blackwood, and it is more than I dreamed of. It has the feel and luster of silk, and instantly upgrades the look of my Air. It is stunning. Now I want more. These are too delicious to stop at one.

The only cure is a woodscents..........lolz.

 

[Ed's TnT]

The only cure is a woodscents..........lolz.

Hehe, everyone needs a WoodScents it only makes sense!

@Madri-Gal it's tough when ya get the wood bug there ain't no shaking it.

 

[jpdnkstr]

Just got enlightened with my Air and some M.A.C. x Alien Apple Warp! Air still going strong, otherwise I'd get an Air II or Solo II( 2 of my 3 Solos are still running!) I hope everyone is enjoying their vapes.

Happy Tuesday

jpdnkstr

 

[narrowsparrow]

Alien Apple Warp? That sounds very enticing!

 

[DJ Colonel Corn]

Air still going strong, otherwise I'd get an Air II or Solo II

Yeah
My OG Air #1, complete with the most restrictive air flow of all the Air's, is still going strong too.
(Actually, mine was replaced after 1 year 11 months, by PuffItUp.com. Fried circuit board. Replaced FREE, even the shipping was free, both ways.)

However, adjustable temps by 1 degree, and far better airflow ? Count me in !
I've missed the last 2 sales, won't miss the next one.
Looking forward to an Air II.

 

[narrowsparrow]

I have both the one and the two. I sort of switch them thinking that will make them both last longer? Probably not necessary, but I like them both. I gotta say, though, that the battery life and the ability to adjust the temperature so precisely with the two gives it the edge. I haven't seen the need to move up to the Solo. The Air is small, convenient, practical AND it's convection!

 

[CalyxSmokr]

Yeah
My OG Air #1, complete with the most restrictive air flow of all the Air's, is still going strong too.
(Actually, mine was replaced after 1 year 11 months, by PuffItUp.com. Fried circuit board. Replaced FREE, even the shipping was free, both ways.)

However, adjustable temps by 1 degree, and far better airflow ? Count me in !
I've missed the last 2 sales, won't miss the next one.
Looking forward to an Air II.

Yeah I have the VAS but my og just works. I have to let it do its thing. The opposite of the peak with atomizers breaking all the time. I had to design a carry case to contain the smell and protect the glass but I love its simplicity. Especially for new vapers

 

[bluenavey00]

My Air 1 still gets used a few times a month when a second vape is needed in the household.

A while back it did develop an issue where 1 in 10 times you try to turn it on, it just doesnt. Somtimes swapping battery fixes it, but if you plug it into power for a second, that always fixes it, and shocks it into life.

I know it's not the batteries as I have many which work fine, and I've tried the reset thing. So I guess it's just developed a little fualt. For this reason, normally it does just get used in the house.

Still not doing too bad, over 4 and a half years old at this point.

 

[narrowsparrow]

I guess they are allowed to be quirky. My Air 1 is stuck with the beep on; that's not the way I'd like it, but for whatever reason it prefers to talk to me. I have an oddball lime battery, too. I just let it be and will get a new one when Arizer has a sale. It may just be that it's running out of juice for good. It took me a while to learn how to use the batteries without shortening their lives. My Air 2 is plugged in at the moment, awaiting some action. I got the Scope bubbler, and am happy as can be with it.

I guess they are allowed to be quirky. My Air 1 is stuck with the beep on; that's not the way I'd like it, but for whatever reason it prefers to talk to me. I have an oddball lime battery, too. I just let it be and will get a new one when Arizer has a sale. It may just be that it's running out of juice for good. It took me a while to learn how to use the batteries without shortening their lives. My Air 2 is plugged in at the moment, awaiting some action. I got the Scope bubbler, and am happy as can be with it.

bluenavey00: If a "second vape is needed in the household" here, I'd have to teach the dog to vape!

 

[OF]

bluenavey00: If a "second vape is needed in the household" here, I'd have to teach the dog to vape!

Not sure I follow here. IMO all mission critical gear needs a backup. Stuff happens. You can lose it many ways (forget it somewhere, have it stolen by some low life, admired by some authority who decides to keep it, and so on). Hey, even the best of 'em can break down. Murphy can get you if you don't have a fall back plan. I suggest getting a different sort of vape, one that's fun to use from time to time anyway? Say like a VG?

As to teaching the dog to vape, that's your call. I advise against it as I don't see how you can keep him from tearing up the joint looking for your stash.......

OF

 

[narrowsparrow]

She’s already found it and is definitely not interested. Mercifully, I have no edibles. She would definitely be into that. Spaniels will eat ANYTHING. She did reject a cicada, but the next day ate a grasshopper.

 

[CalyxSmokr]

OF please when you get a chance.
When do you dispose of a cell for the Air? My oldest still give 3 sessions on a charge but I think they take longer than normal to complete filling.
Does it become wasteful of energy to charge them when they get old or is it just number of charges per fill up that declines?
Tia

 

[OF]

OF please when you get a chance.
When do you dispose of a cell for the Air? My oldest still give 3 sessions on a charge but I think they take longer than normal to complete filling.
Does it become wasteful of energy to charge them when they get old or is it just number of charges per fill up that declines?
Tia

I dispose of them when their (tested) capacity drops 10 or 15%. They decline from there fairly quickly. I completely discharge them then put them in the battery recycling pickup.

In general they don't lose efficiency. MaH in is what you can get out. Electron for electron....it's chemical thing. No magic allowed.

I hope that answers your question?

OF