The Arizer Air
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DJ Colonel Corn
The Vapor Ninja
MOST 18650 batteries such as these are recommended to stay at about 3.7 volts for 1 month.
I've never heard of storing them for years after use, but sounds possible.
Just chiming in with what I've read re: li-ion batteries.
If you really want to know, as @OF said, ask @CentiZen here on FC forum (mentioning his nickname like that 'should' bring him around.... ). He's our battery guru, and I've purchased a High Capacity 3400 mAh battery for the Solo with amazing results and above-excellent service when an issue arose. Awesome guy.
2clicker
Observer
yep
OMEiAM
Well-Known Member
I use the domed screens to make sure the four holes in both stems don't get clogged and this ensures maximum airflow.
OF
Well-Known Member
For sure modern ones will survive many years storage, ten being a common number, and still deliver nearly full capacity.....provided they're not fully charged and are kept reasonably cool. Check out what our friends at Battery University has to say about it:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
The information around table 3 addresses this. It shows that while a year old 2000mAh battery stored at 40% charge and room temperature will still deliver 96% of the original capacity, 1920mAh. OTOH, store it at 100% (or just charge it and put it aside or 'keep it in rotation') and you'll only enjoy 80% at the end of that year. Let the temperature get to 40C (104F) and you're reduced to 2/3 of that 2000, 1300mAh. The next year repeats the cycle. Story it at reduced (under 4.1, 4.0 would be safer) and two years is 96% of 96% or 1850mAh. Stored cool and 'mid charged' useful life is available 10 or more years out.
The general advice of 'store at about 75% is intended to avoid the 'too charged' life killer and yet give long storage time without allowing self discharge to discharge the battery into the mud (and deep trouble on the other end). Like I said I store spares and standby batteries at about 75% and try to stop charging at about 90% since doing so doubles the battery life. That stuff is around the next table, number 4. This (and the time savings on charging) were what prompted the 'gadget project' with Solo (hard to swap batteries there), which got modified when Air came along to work with 5 Volts ranther than 12 You can see how it works here:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Notice the dotted line in figure one? That's the actual charge current. It drops through stage 2 as current is reduced to keep the voltage from going too high (this part adds to the capacity too, as you can see by the solid line (capacity) on the next figure. So I monitor that current (since it's coming in the cable it's easy to get to externally) and when it drops to a level below peak, but well above the 10% of peak the controller shuts off at (maximum run time.....) I cut the power. Right now I think I'm set at about 70% of peak, stopping charging at 4.1 not 4.2 Volts. I even built a similar gadget that discharges a battery at a fixed rate (so as not to hurt it) down for a setpoint for storage. Something happened to that kluge, though, last time I went to use it it was locked up....... Something to play with some late night....
OF
Airmaster One
AA Enthusiast
Thanks for this.. I have heard good things about the 7th floor products and a co-worker of mine raves about his SSV. And yes, I was looking for a 18mm hydratube, but I was hoping to get a knockoff version like on DHGate to save $ (I've been spending alot on Air accessories). The cheapest one I've found is $100, which I believe is a knockoff found on Ebay.
Nice tip.. I'm very interested in the HA as well - for the above reasons you mentioned, and also that it's built like a tank, it conserves herbs very well, has balloon and whip functions, has a pump/fan independent of the unit itself, etc. This is definitely on my wishlist.
Now a message for my fellow rookie Air-heads: I remember a while back in this thread someone was asking about the differences between the D020, D020-D, D020-K, etc. I was wondering the same myself, and I came across a bubbler thread here on FC, and a gentleman named Tweak posted a nice photo:
D020 on the left, D020-D on the right. (Special thanks to Tweak, and it was nice to see SSVUN~YAH on that thread
)I like these 2 versions because they are simple and don't have too many extra parts to clean. There is a very detailed description with photos on every single variant of the D020 here:
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/cheap-high-quality-bubbler.5255/page-207
The other variants have more glass parts, interchangeable downstems, percolators, etc. I found a nice D020-D for $21 online, but while I was looking at others, it sold out.
Now you can find it for around $35 shipped. If anyone finds a cheaper price, please post, thanks! 
WoodVillain
Backwoods Rated
Just a few things...
I have been using the nitecore D2 charger with the screen on it mentioned a page or 2 back for months now for lots of different batteries for lots of different things. Its how i charge my Air's bats too. Its a great charger!!
I have 3 factory batteries. I go through all 3 in a day. Battery life is not great, but while the battery is good the unit is amazing. Im thinking of ordering another battery or 2....
I have the Extreme Q as well. Love it. But i put it away in its case for now... Mainly because i mostly enjoy herb alone, and i much prefer the bags over whip on the Q, and when by myself really the Air is just quicker and easier than prepping the Q, waiting for it to heat up, and then waiting for the bag to fill...... But if/when not in a rush, or when enjoying with others, i do enjoy the vapor from the Q, set at 205°C, and fan 3, MORE than the vapor from the Air on any setting. I also enjoy the whip with using the fan settings. Both have great vapor production, but IMO the Q is just a bit better in the vapor production department. But in prep/heat up time.. The Air is excellent and way quicker than the Q.
.... Also this thread moves QUICK.
I have been using the nitecore D2 charger with the screen on it mentioned a page or 2 back for months now for lots of different batteries for lots of different things. Its how i charge my Air's bats too. Its a great charger!!
I have 3 factory batteries. I go through all 3 in a day. Battery life is not great, but while the battery is good the unit is amazing. Im thinking of ordering another battery or 2....
I have the Extreme Q as well. Love it. But i put it away in its case for now... Mainly because i mostly enjoy herb alone, and i much prefer the bags over whip on the Q, and when by myself really the Air is just quicker and easier than prepping the Q, waiting for it to heat up, and then waiting for the bag to fill...... But if/when not in a rush, or when enjoying with others, i do enjoy the vapor from the Q, set at 205°C, and fan 3, MORE than the vapor from the Air on any setting. I also enjoy the whip with using the fan settings. Both have great vapor production, but IMO the Q is just a bit better in the vapor production department. But in prep/heat up time.. The Air is excellent and way quicker than the Q.
.... Also this thread moves QUICK.
SSVUN~YAH
You Must Unlearn, What You Have Learned...
Lol, I guess I look like the dick that rallyed on the non pvhe but I wanted turbo and that's only offered as a pvhe. The other will work fine, if you do order another you can find what you like and I can assure you that the other one would sell quickly on classifieds, the PV gongs never last long on here or their own website it seems.shit, i literally just ordered the non PVHE version yesterday
Worth getting both?
OF
Well-Known Member
That depends on you. For some it's not questioned (just do it!), for others it's only a matter of time. However, IMO if you lean that way best to try it out. Wondering about it, second guessing every 3rd or 4th hit can harsh your mellow big time.
You get this stuff to enjoy, not stress over. I say scratch that itch if it's real as early on as you can. Getting all strung out about 'when will they ever offer them again', let alone worrying you'll be out of town, in jail or otherwise out of touch when the window opens and then slams shut as you race up.......
Your call, but consider which is worse, buying it and finding out you don't really care for it, or not doing so and wondering and wondering. And just quickly check one more time......
I did, it didn't suit me, but I'm glad I know that.
OF
SmorezNTickles
It's real.
I think this question was addressed somewhere earlier but I can't seem to find it so I'll just ask it:
Is it recommended to NOT charge your battery over 100%/leave overnight?
Is it recommended to NOT charge your battery over 100%/leave overnight?
olivianewtonjohn
Well-Known Member
KidFated.
Unknown Member
It's best to pull it off just before the light goes solid green.
Glad I saw this, I would have had the screen the other way around.Bummer shipping is so high, but I guess there's no way around that. They're a dollar each here, still very pricey compared to 3 or 4 dollars for a hundred.
However, IMO they really are that much better. Very well formed from much thicker wire than what you're used to (punching such hard SS wire crews up tooling fast as the wire gauge gets bigger guys looking for high volume and cheap material costs naturally 'go there' and give us frail screens that do 'wear out'.
IMO you're not going to wear these guys out, they're mighty tough by comparison. And the forming is near perfect (some good tooling there I suspect), better than you can do by hand even with thin screens, so the fit is very good at the bottom edge (as you can see in the photo), you and I can't match that either I think.
While putting a screen in a Solo stem is usually no trouble, Air stems are different. There's a lot of taper (called 'draft') at the bottom of the bowl so the tool could be extracted from the hot glass, this taper makes the screen want to 'climb' up the walls and tilt doing so. Very frustrating, you'll find lots of posts on the topic. This screen is the best at combating that I've tried. This includes several diameters of SS screens in medium and fine mesh with various dome profiles, the E-nano screen with the skirt folded back (the best results I got before these) and several versions of the 'double inverted dome' idea pioneered by another FC member.....the Q man?
So yes, pricey, but 'the last screen you'll need to buy'? IMO not having to routinely mess with it has value to counter some of the extra cost at least. I'm recommending them to anyone who uses (or wants to use) who will listen.
OF
I see all the messages about screens going by. I have switched to not grinding at all and simply putting a complete piece of bud in. This is less material because it does not pack as tightly as ground material. So no screen at all. The holes in the stems that come with the air are considerably smaller than the Solo and the capacity is smaller so I find it ideal to use it this way. The great advantage is also ease of use. No grinder or screens to clean just pop in a piece of bud and vape. When you feel it is done its very easy to take the whole piece out and turn it around to finish it off.
I also love the air on my bong. I always felt something bad was going to happen with the solo upside down on the bong but with the air its ideal.
Another one I like is a layer of bud, a little piece of my bubble hash and then another layer of bud.
I also love the air on my bong. I always felt something bad was going to happen with the solo upside down on the bong but with the air its ideal.
Another one I like is a layer of bud, a little piece of my bubble hash and then another layer of bud.
stark1
Lonesome Planet
First thing I want to say is that I am not encouraging anyone to ignore the advice from Arizer, do anything unsafe or void your warranty.
I am trained as an electrical engineer and the whole 18650 battery thing has been bothering me.
What could be so special about the 18650's that Arizer have sourced for the air?
I have carefully read the information that "Centizen" has gleaned of the safety requirements that Arizer have defined. To be clear (quoted from Centizen):
So I looked up my Sony VTC5 batteries I have been using in my eVic Supreme. Electrically these have a higher spec than the Air battery but what about the safety aspect? A little more goggling revealed to me that there is a safety standard for Lithium batteries called the UL 1642. When I read the UL 1642 I noticed it included all the points mentioned above. The Sony VTC5 complies to this regulation.
I am convinced that using cheaply made Lithium Batteries is a very dangerous business but I really can't see why we should not use good quality batteries that have the correct electrical characteristics and comply with the UL 1642, except of course that it will void your guarantee!
I think Arizer are just being super cautious which they have every right to be. Even avoiding one accident is worth it.
As a curious spirit I had to do some research, now I can lay his topic to rest in my head.
I am trained as an electrical engineer and the whole 18650 battery thing has been bothering me.
What could be so special about the 18650's that Arizer have sourced for the air?
I have carefully read the information that "Centizen" has gleaned of the safety requirements that Arizer have defined. To be clear (quoted from Centizen):
- Vibrate at 10-55-10Hz at 1Hz interval per minute for 100 minutes with zero leak of electrolyte
- Expose to 125 - 175G of force on X, Y, Z axis without puncture or venting
- Overcharge with a 12V/1C current for 1.5hrs, must not overheat or vent
- Discharge to 250% of rated capacity without overheat or vent
- Bake in an oven at 130*C for 60 minutes at full charge, must vent, not fire.
- Crushed with approximately 13KN of force via a 32mm piston at full charge. Must vent, not fire.
- 9.1KG weight is dropped from 61cm on to the sample at full charge. Must not puncture.
- Short circuited from full charge with a copper wire until cell temperature falls 10*C below peak temp, no fire or explode.
- Heated and cooled from 70*C to 20*C to -40*C and back to 20*C waiting 30 minute between temperature change. Repeated 10 times, at full charge.
- Completely incinerated to decomposition or explosion at full charge. Test is passed if cell does not explode, or if explosion does not puncture a 2x1 foot box of 0.010in steel mesh place around cell. (16 wires per inch).
So I looked up my Sony VTC5 batteries I have been using in my eVic Supreme. Electrically these have a higher spec than the Air battery but what about the safety aspect? A little more goggling revealed to me that there is a safety standard for Lithium batteries called the UL 1642. When I read the UL 1642 I noticed it included all the points mentioned above. The Sony VTC5 complies to this regulation.
I am convinced that using cheaply made Lithium Batteries is a very dangerous business but I really can't see why we should not use good quality batteries that have the correct electrical characteristics and comply with the UL 1642, except of course that it will void your guarantee!
I think Arizer are just being super cautious which they have every right to be. Even avoiding one accident is worth it.
As a curious spirit I had to do some research, now I can lay his topic to rest in my head.
2clicker
Observer
nice post! id like to know where my Samsung INRs (baby blues) rate.
OF
Well-Known Member
Hey, it works that way too......
I agree, that would make perfect sense if Air was designed around those specifications. But it seems that is not the case here. It can, for instance, damage 'in spec' cells by too deep a discharge?
As a working EE I'm sure you can think of many cases where 'out of spec features' have been taken advantage of?
IMO not recommended......by anyone? Along with my Samsungs (although mine are IMR not INR......). Stick to the factory battery, CentiZen can get you 'good guy prices'. $11 is cheap peace of mind.
OF
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DJ Colonel Corn
The Vapor Ninja
That's nice, and we all know Sony VTC5 is a great battery but....
Sony no longer makes them, and the internet is FLOODED with fake Sony VTC5's.
This is yet another reason I recommend people just go with Arizer batteries because we know they are safe and built for the task the Air demands.
There's a "c" level for batteries, and, if you look, VTC4 has an even better discharge curve. This means it will keep the upper voltages for a longer time, which we as Air users want, because as the voltage drops, so does the heater performance.
Even ways to detect fake VTC5's are no longer applicable, the fakes have gotten so good.
So, I don't know the "c" value for Arizer batteries, honestly. I'd like @CentiZen to chime in on this one and tell us the value for these Arizer batteries. However I strongly suspect they are on par with VTC4 or better. I've seen a battery with even better specs than the VTC4, but I'm not going to promote that here. I personally use Arizer batteries, I mean, at $11 each from my good friend @CentiZen why not. He's got a solid business and he's a great guy when it comes to customer support.
OF
Well-Known Member
Amen on both counts. Sure be a bummer to get a counterfeit battery and a load of grief by following 'something I read on the net'......
Known good factory batteries are cheap, cheaper through brother CZ. My only problem is justifying buying more now that the price is down......are 4 or 5 too many?
OF
OF
Well-Known Member
@ $11 a pop, it shure is worth saving one's ears-- not to mention exploding AAs.
Funny you should bring up venting in place. I was looking at it the other day. The bottom's too solid, while the seal up top is pretty good that's where the gas is going to go. Up and out the side vents, no doubt ballooning up the skin if it's covering it in a comical way and making all kinds of new sounds.
After changing your trousers, and stopping by the church to renew old acquaintances, I suspect you'd be asking 'who has the lowest price on AIR'? And a changed attitude about saving a few bucks.
OF