stickstones
Vapor concierge
If we asked to be on the list, are we just waiting for notification from you or is there more for us to do?
Discontinued Lil' Bud by Vapwood
- Thread starter Bravesst
- Start date
To make things simple, record keeping wise, can you please sign up on the website form? This way I'll have a chronological record of all sign ups. I will notify you when I'm getting ready to ship. I got lots of pre orders, so the waiting list time has been extended to 3 months for anyone signing up going forward (2018). The few who jumped on the waiting list early will be given the opportunity to purchase in chronological order right after the current pre orders have been filled.
https://vapwood.com, follow the link to the waiting list.
Today was supposed to be the last day of the preorder, but I decided to extend it a bit. I am also now offering a 50/50 down payment option on the deluxe package (Lil' Bud, wood mouthpiece from @Alan, and two 18650 batteries). You put $85 down (plus shipping), then pay $85 when it ships. International orders will be invoiced a surcharge to cover whatever extra shipping costs.
Happy New Year all those who have successfully effed combustion! Thanks for all the support in 2017. Let's hope 2018 is a good year.
Mike
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Good Morning and Happy New Year all!
Here's the Lil' Bud Plan...
Pre order pricing has been adjusted and extended. I've given the customer a couple of options, packages, and ways to get on the pre order list. There is also a more long term waiting list option available.
Units that sell now should ship some time in February. My pre order list seems to be building, so the wait might increase somewhat. I've been editing the website and am always blown away at how nice it is using GoDaddy vs manually putting in code. Very cool, can't wait to get some real cosmetic shots and cool galleries going.
https://vapwood.com
Here's the Lil' Bud Plan...
Pre order pricing has been adjusted and extended. I've given the customer a couple of options, packages, and ways to get on the pre order list. There is also a more long term waiting list option available.
Units that sell now should ship some time in February. My pre order list seems to be building, so the wait might increase somewhat. I've been editing the website and am always blown away at how nice it is using GoDaddy vs manually putting in code. Very cool, can't wait to get some real cosmetic shots and cool galleries going.
https://vapwood.com
Fat Freddy
FUCK CANCER TOO !
P.A.M.
Vapo Rising
I have been reading FC again lately ,just haven't "logged in" in recent months. Now Just found this thread, fuckin beautiful! Logged in!
@Bravesst , congratulations, I've yet to read the thread entirely but I will be visiting your website to register! and will try to save coins for when my turn comes. (You might have to battle it out with Alan should my turn come on his list prior to yours , cNt really afford any vapes right now lol he knows I'm looking for a quality portable vape ) I had intentions of building square log vapes But never got around to it, happy that you followed through with your ideas, you sound as good a fellow as Alan is!
@Alan , you're the man! Props to you for helping Mike out , you are the Yoda that binds us vapers! Happy new year , stay cool and HI
Quite sure Bravesst helped me in selecting or using my bamboo HI too .
@KeroZen , couldn't help but smirk at your post about rbt patent and stuff lol. In all seriousness though, you seem to have a wealth of knowledge in electronics and vaping . Thinking you'd make a kick ass vaporizer if ever venturing in vape building. your input surely does help builders fine tune their rigs I'm sure!
Feels and sounds like the lil'bud will be the best vape of 2108 folks!!! Get on it now !
@Bravesst , congratulations, I've yet to read the thread entirely but I will be visiting your website to register! and will try to save coins for when my turn comes. (You might have to battle it out with Alan should my turn come on his list prior to yours , cNt really afford any vapes right now lol he knows I'm looking for a quality portable vape ) I had intentions of building square log vapes But never got around to it, happy that you followed through with your ideas, you sound as good a fellow as Alan is!
@Alan , you're the man! Props to you for helping Mike out , you are the Yoda that binds us vapers! Happy new year , stay cool and HI
Quite sure Bravesst helped me in selecting or using my bamboo HI too .
@KeroZen , couldn't help but smirk at your post about rbt patent and stuff lol. In all seriousness though, you seem to have a wealth of knowledge in electronics and vaping . Thinking you'd make a kick ass vaporizer if ever venturing in vape building. your input surely does help builders fine tune their rigs I'm sure!
Feels and sounds like the lil'bud will be the best vape of 2108 folks!!! Get on it now !
Thanks so much! Glad you like the Lil' Bud concept and recognize the potential here, and the awesome benefits of working with Alan. We will all benefit from his extensive knowledge.
Lil' Bud pricing has been set, with options for a wood mouthpiece and batteries. The pre order option has been slightly adjusted, and savings will continue at least for January. You can also register to get on the Lil' Bud or Timber waiting list for 2018.
I apologize for any changes / confusion, but I'm trying to keep things as simple and equitable as possible.
I apologize for any changes / confusion, but I'm trying to keep things as simple and equitable as possible.
HindelangGG
Well-Known Member
@HindelangGG
I'll PM you and we will work this out.
I'll PM you and we will work this out.
buddingglasshead
Well-Known Member
Very glad to hear it is extending through January! Have a business trip that consumes this entire month (and lots of funds until reimbursement haha) and unfortunately was not able to pre-order. I'm hopeful after I get back and after surgery that I'll be able to pre-order the timber and lil bud as I definitely love the look of both! If not then hopefully at least the Lil Bud.
Just to make sure, it will still accept the 19/22mm glass stems, it's just an all wood body, correct? (With the option of a wooden mouthpiece) If so, I'm more than just interested.
As a side note, I only found your project due to a member here who sold me their Zion. Due to post count they were unable to sell on the marketplace and suggested that you may be willing to vouch for them as they had sold you their Milaana. Amazing how VAS can happen.
@buddingglasshead
All wood, wood 19/22 stem, and rapid heat, coil heater designed by @Alan
Lil' Bud is being offered in 3 options.:
1. Bare Bones:
If you already have mouthpiece options and the right batteries like many FC members.
2. With Mouthpiece:
One wood mouthpiece (all handcrafted by Alan), no batteries
3. With Mouthpiece and Batteries
Everything you need but charger, sold separately.
My battery recommendations
1. Samsung 30Q 18650 3000mAh 15A
2. Sony VTC5A 18650 2600mAh 25A
3. LG HG2 18650 3000mAh 20A
I personally like the Samsungs with the coil heater, no need for extra oomph, and they last.
_____________________________
SHOP UPDATE
Going back and forth over certain things, trying to finalize every last aspect of this project. Part of getting everything just right is designing a vape that not only works great and looks amazing, but has a solid design and build process, so it can be manufactured in an efficient manner, and passing that along to the consumer.
For anyone who may think my Lil' Bud is a copy of anything, I want you to know with Alan's help I've designed every square mm of this vape, and still working. The concept of a *switch box* was pure genius (wish I could take credit for it), but searching for a functional, yet user friendly and aesthetic pleasing battery compartment is something I'm very proud of.
The all wood design is a pleasure, and lends itself to lots of creativity. I'm glad I decided to give this a shot. But, and this is a big but, the coil is what it's all about, and what makes this vape great. To be completely honest, without Alan's help, I'd never know about the power behind this coil technology. The coil design is phenomenal, fast, efficient.
Whether you are interested in anything I'm doing here or not, find out about Alan's Insta Heat Cartridge and enjoy the power and efficiency of coil vaping. Batteries last, heat up time is almost immediate.
All wood, wood 19/22 stem, and rapid heat, coil heater designed by @Alan
Lil' Bud is being offered in 3 options.:
1. Bare Bones:
If you already have mouthpiece options and the right batteries like many FC members.
2. With Mouthpiece:
One wood mouthpiece (all handcrafted by Alan), no batteries
3. With Mouthpiece and Batteries
Everything you need but charger, sold separately.
My battery recommendations
1. Samsung 30Q 18650 3000mAh 15A
2. Sony VTC5A 18650 2600mAh 25A
3. LG HG2 18650 3000mAh 20A
I personally like the Samsungs with the coil heater, no need for extra oomph, and they last.
_____________________________
SHOP UPDATE
Going back and forth over certain things, trying to finalize every last aspect of this project. Part of getting everything just right is designing a vape that not only works great and looks amazing, but has a solid design and build process, so it can be manufactured in an efficient manner, and passing that along to the consumer.
For anyone who may think my Lil' Bud is a copy of anything, I want you to know with Alan's help I've designed every square mm of this vape, and still working. The concept of a *switch box* was pure genius (wish I could take credit for it), but searching for a functional, yet user friendly and aesthetic pleasing battery compartment is something I'm very proud of.
The all wood design is a pleasure, and lends itself to lots of creativity. I'm glad I decided to give this a shot. But, and this is a big but, the coil is what it's all about, and what makes this vape great. To be completely honest, without Alan's help, I'd never know about the power behind this coil technology. The coil design is phenomenal, fast, efficient.
Whether you are interested in anything I'm doing here or not, find out about Alan's Insta Heat Cartridge and enjoy the power and efficiency of coil vaping. Batteries last, heat up time is almost immediate.
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P.A.M.
Vapo Rising
Awesome shop update!
Quick question(s) - i searched for a thread specific but didn't find any. Batteries or charger ?
3 good options mentioned but if a person is looking to buy less popular brand , what Am looking for ? Flat heads ? Does 15A 20A 25A make a difference? Is that the oomph?
What about the maH reading ? Is that important ?
Anyone ever try a EBL IQuick charger ? It seems decent and affordable on amazon..
Are standard glass stem that fit the lil'bud available somewhere online and less costly then a wooden stem ? (Please don't get me wrong I'd love a Alan stem if ever getting one !thinking budget here)
I have none of the above which makes bare bones unit a no go for me .. I do get how convenient the bare bone deal is awesome for someone who as all that already and just needs the heart(core unit) .
Anyone in Ontario or anywhere have spares or unwanted, old stems , batteries or charger looking to part with please pm me.
FAce same problem with iHeat cartridge not having mod box or batteries or knowing anything about it .. I think the lil'bud would better suit my needs and style over a cartridge .. lil'bud would be but more stealth or convienent In pocket perhaps
Is lil'bud it good on micro -dosing ? battery lasting is cool . It be cool to get 15 micro dose sesh , be about 3 days if vape 5 times a day or more if less .. or is that wishful thinking?
I joined waiting list sent message on website . Not sure if put my email right but will try to preorder with down if can part with other things I don't use to fun this beauty!
Apologies for long post and perhaps not best thread to ask some of those questions but if anyone can shim in to help educate me , much appreciated
Quick question(s) - i searched for a thread specific but didn't find any. Batteries or charger ?
3 good options mentioned but if a person is looking to buy less popular brand , what Am looking for ? Flat heads ? Does 15A 20A 25A make a difference? Is that the oomph?
What about the maH reading ? Is that important ?
Anyone ever try a EBL IQuick charger ? It seems decent and affordable on amazon..
Are standard glass stem that fit the lil'bud available somewhere online and less costly then a wooden stem ? (Please don't get me wrong I'd love a Alan stem if ever getting one !thinking budget here)
I have none of the above which makes bare bones unit a no go for me .. I do get how convenient the bare bone deal is awesome for someone who as all that already and just needs the heart(core unit) .
Anyone in Ontario or anywhere have spares or unwanted, old stems , batteries or charger looking to part with please pm me.
FAce same problem with iHeat cartridge not having mod box or batteries or knowing anything about it .. I think the lil'bud would better suit my needs and style over a cartridge .. lil'bud would be but more stealth or convienent In pocket perhaps
Is lil'bud it good on micro -dosing ? battery lasting is cool . It be cool to get 15 micro dose sesh , be about 3 days if vape 5 times a day or more if less .. or is that wishful thinking?
I joined waiting list sent message on website . Not sure if put my email right but will try to preorder with down if can part with other things I don't use to fun this beauty!
Apologies for long post and perhaps not best thread to ask some of those questions but if anyone can shim in to help educate me , much appreciated
oddjobold
Vape swap shop
I know the heater is differnt from a Milaana (same same but differnt) and there is other design changes but i am not totally comfortable this is not a copy of sorts.
I dont think you can effectively patient Mesh high area heaters. (Change a few things call it your own) think copies were inevitable at some point.
Have you considered changing the button? At least it would look less like a Milaana, less critics.
What would really set this apart from the crowd is to make it regulated. Pocket sized regulated high surface area vape. Add with the other changes you made you would be on a winner. Worst thing about these vapes is never knowing if you got a charged battery.
Like the wooden wong, air intake and battery compartment.
I dont think you can effectively patient Mesh high area heaters. (Change a few things call it your own) think copies were inevitable at some point.
Have you considered changing the button? At least it would look less like a Milaana, less critics.
What would really set this apart from the crowd is to make it regulated. Pocket sized regulated high surface area vape. Add with the other changes you made you would be on a winner. Worst thing about these vapes is never knowing if you got a charged battery.
Like the wooden wong, air intake and battery compartment.
Thanks for the chance to tell the story one more time. It's kind of like free advertising. Okay, here goes, the story behind the Lil' Bud (hopefully, I won't get tired of telling it).
From the wood body, tapered wong(w), side load battery, and modified terminals, to the coil heater, vent holes, and detachable switch box, I've spent that last few months designing every aspect of this all wood portable dry herb vape.
Yeah, it's a rectangle that fits in the palm of your hand.
HEATER / BATTERY
The coil design sets this vape apart, making it much very efficient, with associated battery life, because virtually no pre heat is necessary, adding quite a bit of control to the unregulated process. This is Alan's design, and he is very cool with me using his exact heater technology, and adapting it to this hand held portable.
SWITCH
I've tried at least a half a dozen switches. Maybe because of all the e-cig mods being built, the 12mm momentary push switches are all quite similar. Instead of selecting a switch style based on the criteria of *different*, I will be selecting a switch that is the *best* for this application, along with a dozen or so other parts I've had to hunt down from many different sources.
UNREGULATED
There are plenty of regulated vapes out there you can choose from. If you want to go regulated portable, I highly recommend the iHeat cartridge.
@P.A.M.
When it comes to batteries for this application, stick with the three I posted, all available on IMR. Stay away from amazon / ebay. I will be stocking a cheaper glass alternative as I found a supplier, but I recommend getting one of Alan's cherry tubes (first batch of mouthpieces will all be cherry) to complete the all wood air path.
I'm testing battery life right now. I can tell you the fast heat up of the coil really saves battery life. I like the Samsung 30q's because they seem to last longer.
Samsung 30Q
2600mAh (Milliamp Hours or how long it lasts)
15A (Amps or how hot it can get)
Microdosing is what this vape is made for. Whether you stir often or not, a small amount goes a really long way. I will include a pic tool that helps keep those screens spotless, and sessions long.
From the wood body, tapered wong(w), side load battery, and modified terminals, to the coil heater, vent holes, and detachable switch box, I've spent that last few months designing every aspect of this all wood portable dry herb vape.
Yeah, it's a rectangle that fits in the palm of your hand.
HEATER / BATTERY
The coil design sets this vape apart, making it much very efficient, with associated battery life, because virtually no pre heat is necessary, adding quite a bit of control to the unregulated process. This is Alan's design, and he is very cool with me using his exact heater technology, and adapting it to this hand held portable.
SWITCH
I've tried at least a half a dozen switches. Maybe because of all the e-cig mods being built, the 12mm momentary push switches are all quite similar. Instead of selecting a switch style based on the criteria of *different*, I will be selecting a switch that is the *best* for this application, along with a dozen or so other parts I've had to hunt down from many different sources.
UNREGULATED
There are plenty of regulated vapes out there you can choose from. If you want to go regulated portable, I highly recommend the iHeat cartridge.
@P.A.M.
When it comes to batteries for this application, stick with the three I posted, all available on IMR. Stay away from amazon / ebay. I will be stocking a cheaper glass alternative as I found a supplier, but I recommend getting one of Alan's cherry tubes (first batch of mouthpieces will all be cherry) to complete the all wood air path.
I'm testing battery life right now. I can tell you the fast heat up of the coil really saves battery life. I like the Samsung 30q's because they seem to last longer.
Samsung 30Q
2600mAh (Milliamp Hours or how long it lasts)
15A (Amps or how hot it can get)
Microdosing is what this vape is made for. Whether you stir often or not, a small amount goes a really long way. I will include a pic tool that helps keep those screens spotless, and sessions long.
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oddjobold
Vape swap shop
Respectfully - I had read the thread before posting and made my comments accordingly.
I am on the waiting list for an iheat heater cartridge and a splinter. However have owned a tubox and much prefer regualted vaping.
P.A.M.
Vapo Rising
Cool that you are on waiting list for both iHeat and splinter . You'll know for yourself and share at your will which one you prefer or if the evolution of Ryan's heater concept is going forward. I personally dont doubt the guys improvements are for the best . I also believe that less material or parts needed to build a quality vape , the better.
I too think I'd prefer a regulated unit whichever would obviously cost about more to build and in turn to the end user.
That is part of reason why I started a thread last night in the DIY section. To try and gather parts list needed to create that type of heater in my own wooden box creation. I'm comfortable with. Wood work and some electronics wiring having built electric guitars and violins for 5 years +. I just don't have the "heater" knowledge to build my own vape for my personl enjoyment . When i started vaping a year ago, was going to build my own MLfb then she i got my bamboo Hi , Alan really opened and shared tips and parts , I was going to build myself a square log not having a wood lathe.. I had all parts sourced out
but I moved since and can't vape inside anymore and really need a portable vape to not combust when out and About. I need a big hitting vape and my vapcap M works well but I'd rather not deal with torches in northern Ontario weather amongst other things..
Anyhow, all are welcome to join that thread or pm me to share their knowledge or features that would be cool for fast heating coil heater.. figure we can maybe figure out a wiring diagram for a electronics harness , then members could DIY both heater and box , wooden or improvised .
I Still want a lil'bud , sure be easier route then build my own lol, but even if price is right it's still out of reach for my personal situation. never know though.. watching this thread attentively .
Happy vaping
Hello All,
I added a pre order price menu to the website to help clear things up.
https://vapwood.com/lil-bud-1
For anyone who has already pre ordered and was under the impression a mouthpiece was included, I'll throw in a 19/22 glass stem. The cherry wood stems that I'm offering are works of art in and of themselves, and as much as I'd like to include them, it's not feasible at the bare bones price point.
There is also an option for 2 batteries included with the mouthpiece and unit. I'd prefer not to be in the business of selling just batteries or just stems. There are some really good sources for that stuff, and I'd just be a middle man.
Stems:http://toasty-top.com/
Batteries: https://www.imrbatteries.com/
I added a pre order price menu to the website to help clear things up.
https://vapwood.com/lil-bud-1
For anyone who has already pre ordered and was under the impression a mouthpiece was included, I'll throw in a 19/22 glass stem. The cherry wood stems that I'm offering are works of art in and of themselves, and as much as I'd like to include them, it's not feasible at the bare bones price point.
There is also an option for 2 batteries included with the mouthpiece and unit. I'd prefer not to be in the business of selling just batteries or just stems. There are some really good sources for that stuff, and I'd just be a middle man.
Stems:http://toasty-top.com/
Batteries: https://www.imrbatteries.com/
P.A.M.
Vapo Rising
Indeed , no one needs a middle man ! Best to offer battery at almost cost with unit or not offer them at all and provide link as you just did. (Only disadvantage for out of country folks is if ordering vape and battery separately it could add to shipping fees spent over all.. so if you offer with low markup it only sweetens to pot for your customers
Cool for glass stem. A vape without a mouthpiece ain't a vape
right? perhaps include one with all units, those who want or can afford an upgrade can do so..
Those are 2 other of the reasons why I'm considering diy a similar unit..
Edit : oh not sure if received or read my inquiry on your website but i think there's a typo in warning disclaimer of each page , may* be dangerous or many be dangerous? Hate to be the grammar police , all rest looks great!!
Cool for glass stem. A vape without a mouthpiece ain't a vape
right? perhaps include one with all units, those who want or can afford an upgrade can do so..Those are 2 other of the reasons why I'm considering diy a similar unit..
Edit : oh not sure if received or read my inquiry on your website but i think there's a typo in warning disclaimer of each page , may* be dangerous or many be dangerous? Hate to be the grammar police , all rest looks great!!
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
If I may, here's a remark I made to Ryan (but it was ignored): the factory that produces these push buttons has a slightly pricier stainless steel version of this very same model. It ages way better than the chrome or nickel plated versions.
The one on my Milaana has already most of the plating altered and shows a weird color below, it's a bit unsightly. The SS one is a slightly duller and darker grey but I like it better. There's also a black anodized aluminium version but I think it would suffer from the same aging problem.
The one on my Milaana has already most of the plating altered and shows a weird color below, it's a bit unsightly. The SS one is a slightly duller and darker grey but I like it better. There's also a black anodized aluminium version but I think it would suffer from the same aging problem.
@KeroZen
Researching, finding all the parts has been quite a task. There are quite a few of these momentary push button switches out there. I've experimented with at least a half dozen different models. There are all sorts of colors, materials used, from ss to plastic. So far, in my testing, there is no heat that passes to the switch, it stays cool. Why do you think your switch discolored?
I've considered these other switches, but I want something that will not only look great, but function flawlessly. I'm willing to experiment to find just the right switch for this application.
Researching, finding all the parts has been quite a task. There are quite a few of these momentary push button switches out there. I've experimented with at least a half dozen different models. There are all sorts of colors, materials used, from ss to plastic. So far, in my testing, there is no heat that passes to the switch, it stays cool. Why do you think your switch discolored?
I've considered these other switches, but I want something that will not only look great, but function flawlessly. I'm willing to experiment to find just the right switch for this application.
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KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
I think it a mix of wear and perhaps some interaction with the oils we have naturally on our skin. The plating appears to be very thin, at least on the ones Ryan used. What's concerning is that I was super careful and always transported my Milaana inside the provided hemp bag. But it's a purely cosmetic issue.
I also think that nearly all these switches are manufactured in China from a few places (not that it is a bad thing but I've seen resellers slap their brand on the product description and pretend it's their own) When I sourced some for my personal projects, I ended getting them from a factory called "Elewind" and they seem to be quite good. Exactly the same model and dimensions as on the Mi/Zi.
Note that the recommended way to switch high currents is to use a MOSFET and not put the switch directly in-line like Ryan and you did, as the current and contact resistance slowly eats the surface away and can create micro-welds and make the switch stick in the closed position. That being said, we have not experienced a single occurrence of the problem in the wild so far, be it in the Zi or Mi, fingers crossed... but a single house fire is enough to bring a small company to its loss. The Mi/Zi were tested for this failure condition and appear to just char the wood (visible on the exterior of the shell, so interior must be all black charcoal, despite the glass sleeve) but if the device happens to be near a flammable object or substance, who knows what might happen...
I'm borrowing this schematic from ukvapers. This is how mech mods are properly done, and what your device actually is (just replace ATTY by HEATER) Note that it's easier said than done when using a single cell, as the Vgs is most often too low to open the FET fully, leading to wasted power in the form of heat and less power available to the heater. The issue is less problematic when using two cells in series.
I can help you source suitable FETs if ever you want to follow that route at some point in the future, but really for a single cell device it will have some negative implications and I'm not sure it would be satisfying in the end.
I also think that nearly all these switches are manufactured in China from a few places (not that it is a bad thing but I've seen resellers slap their brand on the product description and pretend it's their own) When I sourced some for my personal projects, I ended getting them from a factory called "Elewind" and they seem to be quite good. Exactly the same model and dimensions as on the Mi/Zi.
Note that the recommended way to switch high currents is to use a MOSFET and not put the switch directly in-line like Ryan and you did, as the current and contact resistance slowly eats the surface away and can create micro-welds and make the switch stick in the closed position. That being said, we have not experienced a single occurrence of the problem in the wild so far, be it in the Zi or Mi, fingers crossed... but a single house fire is enough to bring a small company to its loss. The Mi/Zi were tested for this failure condition and appear to just char the wood (visible on the exterior of the shell, so interior must be all black charcoal, despite the glass sleeve) but if the device happens to be near a flammable object or substance, who knows what might happen...
I'm borrowing this schematic from ukvapers. This is how mech mods are properly done, and what your device actually is (just replace ATTY by HEATER) Note that it's easier said than done when using a single cell, as the Vgs is most often too low to open the FET fully, leading to wasted power in the form of heat and less power available to the heater. The issue is less problematic when using two cells in series.
I can help you source suitable FETs if ever you want to follow that route at some point in the future, but really for a single cell device it will have some negative implications and I'm not sure it would be satisfying in the end.
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splitz
Well-Known Member
Not so sure about this - Ryan can chime in with the offical cause of my button death, however, I sent my OG Milaana in for repair as the trigger was no longer working. Ryan posted my device to his Instagram feed indicating I had "wore out" my button.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bb7PmDwhtkT/?taken-by=rastabuddhatao
(note instagram comments: never miss an opportunity to throw hopperlabs under the bus - no, I'm not bitter)
I did receive a new Milaana "with all of the upgrades", however, it doesn't hit the same at all. I'm actually looking to sell it as the OG model was more suited to my style...