Hex-Nail (HN-01) - RIP

[GreenHopper]

Yup exactly, just hot keys is all. I think it could be pretty useful with the Flowerpot.

Yeh I agree actually.

Even just using flower you can want different temps depending on if you are using a lollicap or not.

Sometimes you'll want a free flowing pull and other times you'll want to milk the bubbler. I can see wanting to quick switch between custom temp sets.

Found this image on their Instagram:

I'm using the duck tape to gauge roughly how large the HN-02 is.

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

Yup exactly, just hot keys is all. I think it could be pretty useful with the Flowerpot.

That would be pretty easy to do with the current software in the HN01 as there are already five hot keys (sounds like more than five in upcoming software updates).
Just set up a Flower-Pot profile and use those five hot keys as you see fit.
If you have another nail (ie Ligerr/DNail) set up a separate profile for them as well.

I initially thought the profiles were for multiple users in a session who had different temp preferences, but they could easily be used for different nails.

Yeh I agree actually.

Even just using flower you can want different temps depending on if you are using a lollicap or not.

Sometimes you'll want a free flowing pull and other times you'll want to milk the bubbler. I can see wanting to quick switch between custom temp sets.

Found this image on their Instagram:

I'm using the duck tape to gauge roughly how large the HN-02 is.

There is also the topsheet and a few bottom sheets of HN01s in the background.
The HN01s measure ~5"x 6.75".
In another of the Hex-Nail IG posts Ava says that the HN02 is half the size of the HN01; looks about right.

 

[Baron23]

That would be pretty easy to do with the current software in the HN01 as there are already five hot keys (sounds like more than five in upcoming software updates).
Just set up a Flower-Pot profile and use those five hot keys as you see fit.
If you have another nail (ie Ligerr/DNail) set up a separate profile for them as well.

I initially thought the profiles were for multiple users in a session who had different temp preferences, but they could easily be used for different nails.





There is also the topsheet and a few bottom sheets of HN01s in the background.
The HN01s measure ~5"x 6.75".
In another of the Hex-Nail IG posts Ava says that the HN02 is half the size of the HN01; looks about right.

And here I thought that the tunings were to compensate for the delta between coil TC temp and actual dab surface temp for different type nails/inserts. That is, they are not simply a hot key to a temp setting.

But I have been known to be wrong before.

 

[ensabbahnur]

And here I thought that the tunings were to compensate for the delta between coil TC temp and actual dab surface temp for different type nails/inserts. That is, they are not simply a hot key to a temp setting.

But I have been known to be wrong before.

I think maybe we are caught up in semantics, and I assure you the tunes have nothing to do with offsets.

Profiles are like windows logins, you have a separate user interface setup for each user, and under that can include custom presets and tunes.

Presets are like book marks that really only function (atlas as far as i can see) as quick jumps to a certain temp. edit:also from what I've seen the presets do not change the nail selection or select a different tune, but id expect that functionality would be simple to add on

Tunes are the custom PID settings for each different nail.

I say there is no offset as i can heat a halo and the indicated nail temp sticks pretty linear to the coil, as id expect. The liger however, the coil reaches its "throttle down" state from initial warm up and while the coil temp will level off the nail temp can be seen slowly raising, and it speeds up as heat spreads through the different mated surfaces and much increased mass.

 

[Baron23]

I think maybe we are caught up in semantics, and I assure you the tunes have nothing to do with offsets.

Profiles are like windows logins, you have a separate user interface setup for each user, and under that can include custom presets and tunes.

Presets are like book marks that really only function (atlas as far as i can see) as quick jumps to a certain temp. edit:also from what I've seen the presets do not change the nail selection or select a different tune, but id expect that functionality would be simple to add on

Tunes are the custom PID settings for each different nail.

I say there is no offset as i can heat a halo and the indicated nail temp sticks pretty linear to the coil, as id expect. The liger however, the coil reaches its "throttle down" state from initial warm up and while the coil temp will level off the nail temp can be seen slowly raising, and it speeds up as heat spreads through the different mated surfaces and much increased mass.

Ok, first let's dismiss profiles...its not what I'm talking about.

And, while tunings indeed may change a number of the PID variable's values, I still undertand that the intent was to compensate for TC to dab surface deltas (which is how you get a display of coil temp and nail temp on the Hex-nail....there is no other way for value to be generated) and perhaps for other thermal properties such thermal transfer rate in order to properly tune a glob mode, for example, to the characteristics of the nail being used.

@mutten840 - what's your understanding of what tunings do?

Cheers

 

[ensabbahnur]

Ok, first let's dismiss profiles...its not what I'm talking about.

And, while tunings indeed may change a number of the PID variable's values, I still undertand that the intent was to compensate for TC to dab surface deltas (which is how you get a display of coil temp and nail temp on the Hex-nail....there is no other way for value to be generated) and perhaps for other thermal properties such thermal transfer rate in order to properly tune a glob mode, for example, to the characteristics of the nail being used.

@mutten840 - what's your understanding of what tunings do?

Cheers

Its been stated there is real time ambient temp logging that plays a more important role on the deltas than the tunings tough, if i put a fan blowing directly on the box, the temps go wild....when i put a bare liger on with no insert, and selecting NONE under nails, my IR gun (with emissivity offset correctly set) is within 5-10 degrees of the bottom of the bucket, granted thats after a few mins of heat soaking but I doubt it'd be much different during ramp up.

edit: And maybe even more telling is when everything is cool and at ambient, whatever it may be, coil and nail match, regardless of nail used or tune selected.

 

[HexNailAva]

WOW. Okay so. Lemme break it down.

Hi Ava - wow....I haven't bought an HN yet as I have two controllers and many other things to pay for right now (like new carpet...sigh LOL).

But it has been on my radar for quite some time and I did see and use the HN-01 at @mutten840 and really liked it.

I guess I just want to express my not-so-important vote for a control head. Personally, while I don't mind apps as an addendum to built in controls, I would almost certainly not be interested in a controller that depended on an app or browser connection.

Little bit of feedback, for what's its worth.

I know you haven't. I've been trying to snag you since we started posting here a year ago. Glad @mutten840 is greasing the wheels a bit. Haha.

Really glad to hear you like the unit though. Don't think your feedback isn't important or welcome. The hardest people to please are often the most die hard fans once you give 'em what they want.

I like the idea of a small headless unit that still provides all the functionality of the HN-01 but in a much smaller package (assuming it's much smaller).

I come from a technical background though so I'm immediately seeing all manner of ways to setup a nice vape station with an old tablet or mobile (or even cheap smart watch) mounted on a desk stand. I feel that the HN-01 all in one format should still be available in some form but personally I'm looking forward to the HN-02. Assuming there is a UK variant this may be my next purchase in conjunction with a Flowerpot Shower Head and some compact glass.

It IS much smaller. 3x4x2 (in.) vs 5x7x2 (HN-01).

Your ideas on a station...? Hit the nail on the head. As for the UK variant. There will not be.
...cuz both of our models can be used anywhere in the world with the right coil. 110 - 250v Compatible.

everytime i see the Red Queen reference I think of the british girl from the first movie, "You're all going to die down here"

Heh. There's a few references within the name Red Queen. I was proud of and you nailed that one.

Not what I was expecting or had in mind but actually it's OK. I need to adjust my expectations slightly but I'm a wood fan and it looks well finished.

Hope all the cables come out the back of the unit.

Would like a reference object to get a feel for its actual size.

Are there any controls?

At least a hardware power button?

Padauk speaks for itself. We love this wood (it's our personal favorite) and take great pride in our finish.

(Oh, and if anyone feels that their HN-01 feels dry, or you want to give it a good shine again: https://www.amazon.com/Howard-ORS016-Orange-Wood-Polish/dp/B000GLHW22 Grab this wonderful stuff. It can be had at your local Home Depot, etc. as well, IIRC.

Our HN-01 Prototype was also done in Padauk. I'm actually about to finally get to use some for knife scales and at some point...maybe my 1911 grips, too.

I'll get HN-01 size comparison shots up soon. Maybe a couple with a banana for scale.

Oh, and the answers about the hardware are: Yes & Yes. Full size XLR, User-replaceable fused inlet, and a power switch all on the back. Same as the HN-01.

Meant to post yesterday but realized I was missing a bolt on the back in the photos I took.

That would be pretty easy to do with the current software in the HN01 as there are already five hot keys (sounds like more than five in upcoming software updates).
Just set up a Flower-Pot profile and use those five hot keys as you see fit.
If you have another nail (ie Ligerr/DNail) set up a separate profile for them as well.

I initially thought the profiles were for multiple users in a session who had different temp preferences, but they could easily be used for different nails.

Just to clarify terms for everyone (from our side anyway)...

Profiles - Not currently used much. Setting your profile name just displays it on the Home Screen at the moment but the 2.0 software update is adding more conventional Profile options like separate UI settings, temps, etc. We've got a few unconventional ones in store for y'all, too.

Presets - Currently: User set temps, Glob Mode / Uptemp Dabs, and Cleaning Mode. There are 5 slots available on the Home Screen and they can be set to any of the previously stated 'types' of preset.

Now...2.0 will be switching this up a little. I suppose it's more like breaking it down when you think about it. We're going to have (at launch): Cleaning (High), Cleaning (Low), Glob, Uptemp, and of course, standard temp presets. So there will be 5 types instead of 3 (and more options will come with updates).

Tunings - The tunings are designed to use real-world test data (that we gather in-house from each nail) to:

1) Provide an estimated dish temp. that isn't solely based on an 'offset'. Rather it's based around the actual thermal properties of each nail / insert and it's respective material (SiC, Qtz, etc.)

2) Adjust ('tune') the duty cycle (power being fed to the nail) in such a way that keeps makes unit more responsive to changes in the dish temp. based around the same real-world data.

Some of our tunings still need work as the data was collected very early in the development process. We'll be using 2.0 as an opportunity to finally implement some of the tunings users have helped us improve, too. If you have tuning values that you feel work better than ours feel free to let us know! We can test them in-house and if it fits, it sits.

Those of you that have gotten into fine-tuning your nails will be very happy to know that you'll be able to not only save your values for our stock tunings, but save your own new tunings for nails we haven't had a chance to test yet. ie. Qtz Bangers, etc.)

also from what I've seen the presets do not change the nail selection or select a different tune, but id expect that functionality would be simple to add on

Tunes are the custom PID settings for each different nail.

I say there is no offset as i can heat a halo and the indicated nail temp sticks pretty linear to the coil, as id expect. The liger however, the coil reaches its "throttle down" state from initial warm up and while the coil temp will level off the nail temp can be seen slowly raising, and it speeds up as heat spreads through the different mated surfaces and much increased mass.

We've found that Ligers definitely have to soak for quite some time to get to 'resting' temp. But they're also more stable than we initially thought and our tunings reflect that calculation error right now in some cases.

Oh, and we are working on the option to have Temp. Presets optionally change the nail tuning as well implemented in 2.0 (or soon after release).

Phew. That was a lot. Haha.

 

[GreenHopper]

As for the UK variant. There will not be.
...cuz both of our models can be used anywhere in the world with the right coil. 110 - 250v Compatible.

Phew! My heart skipped a beat reading that one

I'm convinced, I'm in.

As soon as you are ready to take an order I'll be putting mine in.

 

[muunch]

wait... pricing though?

the most interesting part! or still in the works?

either way, this looks very nice and i am not good at resisting...

 

[Baron23]

Tunings - The tunings are designed to use real-world test data (that we gather in-house from each nail) to:

1) Provide an estimated dish temp. that isn't solely based on an 'offset'. Rather it's based around the actual thermal properties of each nail / insert and it's respective material (SiC, Qtz, etc.)

@ensabbahnur - Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah" !! LOL jk

 

[Justpassedu]

 

[HexNailAva]

Some other answers to the more general questions folks had:

Price is going to be between $299 - $329. We will have units available to ship at launch in most of our current wood options.

Once those initial units sell we're considering some different options moving forward (and we'd actually like feedback on this one).

Depending on initial interest / sales we're considering going with a 'Batch Cap' system where you'd make a down payment (50% down) which allows you to choose the wood you want and guarantees that combination will be produced in the next batch. Most likely offering 'Reservation Only' woods to incentivize (along with free coils of your choice). Once our 'cap' for that batch is reached (ie. "We have 10 reservation slots in this next batch of 20 units being released.") we'd assemble and produce batch units then finalize payments & orders along with the units released to the public for general sale on our shop at MSRP in one or more of the 'standard' wood choices (and coils will be an add-on cost). Shipping of batch units would come the day before public release on the site. There would be a grace period for batch customers (we're thinking 2 weeks) if they can't pay the remaining balance when their unit is ready to ship. We will hold their unit (ready to ship immediately) until they can finalize payment even if the site sells out.

We would do our best to keep a steady 'rolling' flow of releases when it comes to wait time vs. batch quantity. Meaning we will try to set the reservation cap based on demand. ie. We'd do our best to produce a 40 unit batch with 20 reserve slots in the same time frame as a 20 unit batch with 10 reserve slots, etc.

 

[GreenHopper]

@HexNailAva Do I need to reserve a slot for the next batch or are all the reserve slots taken already?

 

[invertedisdead]

Uptemp is one of my main interests. Seriously so many options this could add to the Flowerpot.

 

[GreenHopper]

Uptemp is one of my main interests. Seriously so many options this could add to the Flowerpot.

Correction..... So many options this is going to add to the Flowerpot.

 

[HexNailAva]

@HexNailAva Do I need to reserve a slot for the next batch or are all the reserve slots taken already?

We will open reservations slots for this batch soon but we want this release to go smoother than that of the HN-01 so we're taking our time. Since this device will rely more heavily on the back end (in a software sense) we want to make sure we give it all the proper test time it needs.

I should have a better time frame for folks within the next few days. Liz has been running about a 8:1 (coding : sleep) schedule getting the app done and all the proper bits in place. I'm basically soldering like a mad woman.

This 2.0 release is going to be a game changer for current and future customers.

 

[GreenHopper]

We will open reservations slots for this batch soon but we want this release to go smoother than that of the HN-01 so we're taking our time. Since this device will rely more heavily on the back end (in a software sense) we want to make sure we give it all the proper test time it needs.

I should have a better time frame for folks within the next few days. Liz has been running about a 8:1 (coding : sleep) schedule getting the app done and all the proper bits in place. I'm basically soldering like a mad woman.

This 2.0 release is going to be a game changer for current and future customers.

All sounds good to me.

To improve efficiency have you considered mainlining amphetamines and doing a 9:0 coding:sleep schedule?

KIDDING!

 

[HexNailAva]

All sounds good to me.

To improve efficiency have you considered mainlining amphetamines and doing a 9:0 coding:sleep schedule?

KIDDING!

You kid but considering both of us have pretty severe ADHD (Liz has ADHD-I and I'm diagnosed with ADHD-C) we have quite the selection of (legal, prescribed, just to verify, lol) amphetamines at our disposal.

If we're being precise the rounds usually end up at about... 50:5 (awake / sleep). She's a beast. I used to be able to pull 3 days straight with her but with my anxiety & pain being worse lately the Valium makes it hard to stay awake. She's on Day 3 for this coding run so sleep tonight or start seeing things Been our life for almost 2 years now. STRESS(HEX)-NAIL

We're also pretty much stuck with Indica right now. Master Kush, in fact. So staying medicated and concentrated at the same time is hard at the moment. We're looking forward to our trip back to the greener side of the country (aka. Home) at the end of the week.

EDIT: Oh, and just as reassurance / side note. We will be releasing more touch screen units in the future. We need to redesign / rethink the enclosure, and potentially up the size of the screen. There's a lot in the works, but we're hoping the HN-02 will free up the funds we need to really build something special. Might be awhile...but fear not. We know folks definitely still want the touchscreens, but we simply couldn't keep up with demand because the current assembly takes so long.

 

[GreenHopper]

You kid but considering both of us have pretty severe ADHD (Liz has ADHD-I and I'm diagnosed with ADHD-C) we have quite the selection of (legal, prescribed, just to verify, lol) amphetamines at our disposal.

If we're being precise the rounds usually end up at about... 50:5 (awake / sleep). She's a beast. I used to be able to pull 3 days straight with her but with my anxiety & pain being worse lately the Valium makes it hard to stay awake. She's on Day 3 for this coding run so sleep tonight or start seeing things Been our life for almost 2 years now. STRESS(HEX)-NAIL

We're also pretty much stuck with Indica right now. Master Kush, in fact. So staying medicated and concentrated at the same time is hard at the moment. We're looking forward to our trip back to the greener side of the country (aka. Home) at the end of the week.

You kid but considering both of us have pretty severe ADHD (Liz has ADHD-I and I'm diagnosed with ADHD-C) we have quite the selection of (legal, prescribed, just to verify, lol) amphetamines at our disposal.

Sorry to hear that, I was aware as I think you mentioned it in previous posts. Doesn't seem to be holding you guys back at all. You've already achieved so much it seems. I've not read a bad thing about Hex-Nail.

If we're being precise the rounds usually end up at about... 50:5 (awake / sleep). She's a beast. I used to be able to pull 3 days straight with her but with my anxiety & pain being worse lately the Valium makes it hard to stay awake. She's on Day 3 for this coding run so sleep tonight or start seeing things Been our life for almost 2 years now. STRESS(HEX)-NAIL

I've done long stints before but that's fucking nuts! I can go 48hrs, after that I'm guaranteed to get a cold or pick up an infection.

Hope the HN-02 and V2.0 is a success and offers you guys a little more freedom and a little less stress.

We're also pretty much stuck with Indica right now. Master Kush, in fact. So staying medicated and concentrated at the same time is hard at the moment. We're looking forward to our trip back to the greener side of the country (aka. Home) at the end of the week.

Ah indica is my jam. Blueberry to be precise.

Although I'm sober when I work. Well when I say sober I mean the painkillers and steroids keep me stable so I don't need to be high. I mostly use the leaf in place of the valium when I need to switch off in the evenings. The roids often wind me up but the leaf helps me to wind back down.

As it happens things seem to be going well, there's chatter about coming off the roids soon. I may get to walk amongst the normals once again

Have a safe trip home

 

[ensabbahnur]

@ensabbahnur - Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah" !! LOL jk

I dunno man, after rereading the whole thread after your tongue wagging' , posts on page 2,3 and i believe 19 all point to the internal temp sensor and ambient temps as part of the "magic" of the tunes......and there is still the fact pointing a fan at the controller itself, no wind to the coil or nail whatsoever.....and the temps go crazy. My pointing out that a cooled coil will read the same as the nail was explained by Ava saying something about under ~100 it goes solely off the internal temp sensor......which explains why its typically about 15-30 degrees higher than my other nails, coils and controllers at rest state.

So unless the tunes consist of an offset......with sub offsets at certain thermal break points.......or some type of timer waiting for those temp thresholds......that can also appear 100% analog in their steps......

Now back on track after doing the time warp again.

Definitely still VERY interested in a 45 degree stand, I like the screen on the 01 but the reality is if your looking at it when its flat on a table and from an angle, it looks like total crap, look at it straight on as screens should be, it looks wonderful and very eye-catching. This alone has me use the web interface as my primary control method. I do think the 02 is setup perfectly with the light ring and I'm stoked to see it in action.

As for future case materials, Ill second a vote for transparency of some type, be it glass or acrylic. Id also vote for just a top sheet of glass on the wood above the light ring, this would allow all kinds of cool variations like maybe a dabber or coil holder. Im sure there are some glass workers who could get all sorts of creative crazy with designs and i feel there is definitely enough profit to be made on 1 offs that will make it well worth your while, i mean look at some of the glass floating around with price tags similar to cars than glassware, yet people still snap em up.

There are a handful of software things that ill hold off on until 2.0 is out as my money is on at least a few already being added/addressed.

As far as the iot aspect of the hexnail and people being extra concerned about.....whatever the hackers or gov will get from your enail, when powered on, i can find no wifi presence, no bluetooth classic, nor any bluetooth le. once added to my network, after the initial update, I've logged no shenanigans, outgoing or incoming from the unit whatsoever, even knowing the MAC of the unit and the internal IP on my network offers up nothing for anyone short of Mr Robot. Im in no way shape or form saying the hexnail is 100% secure and invulnerable....I am however saying you have much more to worry about from your cell phone, laptop, computer or anything else that might have connectivity and a microphone or camera and which is already most likely a known target to exploit as opposed to a device few people even know exists. All of which leads me to my question though @HexNailAva , you mentioned it does output some type of data to a "large iot provider", which i didn't even know was a thing you could be , is that referring to when you use the actual iOS or android app as again i have not seen any outgoing network activity on my unit beyond the traffic explicitly from the web interface and what I'm thinking is update checks? What data is being sent?

Sorry if any of this was incoherent, Im replying from a fresh 30+ page read. edit: oh and since the 01 is now sorta, done with, can we get this thread moved to at least reflect its not an upcoming product, and prolly make an hn-02 thread? Not sure who the mods actually are here.

 

[Elemen0py]

Nice work on the new unit, Ava. With all these changes in the works, I can see why you never got back to me with my request to pay for a unit now and have it assembled and shipped when Sublimator support becomes a thing.

I understand that it's not a priority right now so I'm not asking you to commit to any dates, but can you please confirm whether or not it will be possible at some stage to purchase a unit with an integrated touchscreen and Sublimator support? I'm happy to pay to have it custom built and to arrange the fabrication of the enclosure myself, if that's what it takes.

 

[paytonpenn]

This is just my perspective but I wouldn't even expect Sub support next year.

Honestly I can't see much reason to waste money on supporting the Sub as its user base isn't that big (nor do I expect it to grow exponentially) and for dry herb the Flowerpot seems to be on the top with nothing beating it at the moment.

These new Hex-Nails look so sick I'm going to be so poor these upcoming months. Thanks gals.

 

[Danksta]

Price is looking a little more reasonable on the new unit. Will lowering the cost be a goal for future versions? $199 would attract a good amount of people. Me included.

 

[paytonpenn]

Price is looking a little more reasonable on the new unit. Will lowering the cost be a goal for future versions? $199 would attract a good amount of people. Me included.

Sounds like a barely wood body. Maybe like a wooden power button?

I see my third Hex-Nail being more metal but I'm up for any material that gets it down to 200 while still looking and performing great.

 

[invertedisdead]

What if they did a SS or brushed aluminum enclosure with the wood top plate? Puts the wood right up front where it counts, uses way less wood overall, and I think it would look great. I like the metal-on-wood industrial loft look a lot.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYrXMATlGBk/?taken-by=hexnail