CCA Liger banger V3.0

[mutten840]

Personally I am very happy with Josh and his company. He has done nothing but try to take care of the masses, while being one person. In the end 99% of the issues have come down to user error with seating the coil correctly. Once this has been achieved those same unhappy people have already turned into devoted followers again. I am with @KimDracula that you cannot judge Josh off of the little bumps in the road with the release of the Liger V3.

 

[ReeferChiefer]

I'm also very happy with the customer service. Maybe people confuse this with "perfect" or something. I also had a little incident that had to be resolved. I also was upset about the coil needing ghetto rigging, and so on.

All I know is that when Josh does interact with his customers, people almost always end up satisfied. He does care about his customers and their feedback. The way I see it is he can't literally keep up with all emails, all orders, while having to work during the day with the business growing.

I think what's happening is people have a false idea of how big the company is. I don't know Josh personally or much about the company but clearly the product is becoming more popular and Josh continually tries to improve the product. If anything, from this point on we should see an improvement on quality control, supply/demand, customer care and so on. The things you would expect from a growing, successful company.

I'm not excusing anything, by the way. Everyone has a right to feel how they feel and have their own expectations. All I ask is people take this into consideration. It does make a difference if Josh can't do it all.. lol

 

[Danksta]

This guys customer service doesn't seem worth my business. I was very interested in this but these last few pages are a total turn off. I don't want to buy from anyone who is not interacting with this community and providing direct support.

I would give it a chance. I was a little upset but I got my issues resolved. We have no way to verify what that banned poster said. I personally get fast replies from Josh and have since day one. That one guys situation didn't sound like anyone's here. I think you could tell he was upset. People don't always give the full story when they are upset. Don't let that guy scare you away from Josh. I'm very pleased I sent him my money and intend to continue to support him. He does have great customer service. I can vouch for that.

 

[mutten840]

The guy that got banned is now sitting happy with his Liger and loves it. I was able to help him out after he got banned and his issue was also the coil not being seated properly. He was also doing larger than needed dabs and had lots of leftover product in his dish. Once I told him how to adjust the coil. He was taking solid dabs and the first thing he said after his first dab was how good it tasted. He has pinged me since and is still completely stoked on the Liger now. The only complaint he had left was around the hurricane cap being to large and awkward, but was planning on ordering the Storm cell as it would be a better match for him.

I have offered this before and will offer this again. I am here to help anyone with issues with their Liger V3. 99% of the issues have been due to the coil getting seated properly and once that was out of the mix. It was double rainbows from that point forward. =)

 

[Baron23]

I suggest it would be a mistake to give too much weight to recent loud complaints regarding the Liger. Those reactions are definitely atypical.

I agree...I have personally found Josh to be extrodiarily responsive and concerned about his customers and any delays or issues on his part. He seems to me deeply committed to making sure everybody is made whole. When I ordered my 2.0 he threw in an extra quartz insert to make up for a shipping delay that I wasn't even noticing! LOL

I think what we are seeing is Josh slightly overwhelmed at the moment during a product launch.

Then I broke out the ol' channel locks and cranked down the bottom locking nut.
I used a t-shirt as a pad, but a nice piece of thin leather or chamois would work even better.

A nice pair of plier jaw covers works well for $3 or so. Can get them from Sears. Good to have for all sorts of tightening on Ligers and other finished goods.

http://www.searsoutlet.com/Plier-Co...51&cid=8285&mode=seeAll&itemSelectionType=all

I was actually thinking more about 1/2 open rather than an entire hole, do you think this would work? Thanks for the tip my friend!

Hi Friend - Yes, but it seems you can open or close them in increments of whole integers (ain't that a high falutin way of saying it! haha). I see someone suggesting partially plugging a hole up with cotton but given their small size, I think one open hole is the best you can do short of all closed.

I supposed you could take a VERY small dab of JB Weld or the like and try to build it up to close off part of the first hole (maybe with very small dental probe haha) but I would not want something that janky. I'm not sure I could tell the difference between one hole and 1/2 hole open.

@alittledabwilldoya' and others - any idea of what may have been changed/revised between beta and prod on the 20 mm V3? I'm thinking about another Liger, my 2.0 20mm with SiC is just fine but I have another rig I would like to complete. So wondering about the 20mm and if there are any significant performance differences between the 2.0 and 3.0 in this smaller size....like the temp and fit issues being discussed about 3.0 flat coil?

 

[invertedisdead]

Look these responses are admirable, but read the last 5 pages of this thread and then look at it from an outsiders perspective from someone who actually doesn't have a vested interest in the company yet. It even took a scientist 2 hours to put it together.

There are many small growing manufacturers on this forum offering exceptional customer service, it's part of running a successful small brand. I don't intend to make the guy look bad, rather encourage him to reach out to this community. This website has made some brands powerful and crippled others. I think the product looks great, so I would like to see more effort at showing support so we can in turn guarantee his longevity. Many small businesses try so hard to do everything themselves that their core suffers, only so much time in the day as they say.

 

[mutten840]

@invertedisdead I would say wait a few more weeks and continue to watch the thread. Maybe things will turn around and you will have more confidence in the product. I cannot speak for others here. But I was only helping because I do not like to see my fellow FC peeps unhappy. I know it was said Josh is going to get on the forums and be more vocal with all of us on future issues, but for now. We have each other and so far it seems to be working (Knowledge is power!!!)


Hopefully you will see more positive turn around in this thread as time goes on. =)

 

[LazyIdol]

Overall I am very happy with my experience with both the Liger and Josh and his company. The issues I have voiced were raised as discussion points among friends. Not meant to dissuade prospective buyers.

Josh has been quick to answer my emails in most cases and has gone above what could be expected

I will post a more complete review tonight when I get back from work

 

[Cannabis Connoisseur]

My Josh is misunderstood. He's doing the best he can to make all of his customers happy. I will say i personally am patient so no problems there. Assembly, it took me five min to figure the V3, but then i had the V2, and that one DID come with instructions! Overall Josh rocks! For all of Josh's customers from the previous models, what company has ever given away as much merchandise as Josh? And I'm not talking crappy useless shit,upgrades to products you've already purchased! You check the mail and BAMM! New unexpected, unmentioned, released products and this was prior to being a BETA KID! It's sad a bunch of disgruntled people can bash a guy someplace he's never been,and can't defend himself, ruining his business. It reminds me of people talking shit in a room full of people, scared to address one in particular. Or throwing a brick hiding your hands. I watched the same thing happen to Joda Glass in the Cheap Glass Thread! If i have a problem with someone i address that person not a bunch of random individuals not involved in the issue

 

[invertedisdead]

It's sad a bunch of disgruntled people can bash a guy someplace he's never been,and can't defend himself, ruining his business.

This is my point entirely, it's very easy to ruin your business by not taking the time to keep up with social media marketing. Does he not have an internet connection?

I saw this personally ruin a family business, they had no clue people online were talking about them. Tons of missed opportunities for sales and customer service. And in todays market customer service is advertising. People will support you for great track record alone.

 

[herbivore21]

I'll give some more feedback on the unit itself later later, but honestly, I agree with Baron23, these are teething problems for a small business scrambling to meet very large demands! I have watched plenty of similar companies go through the same process and it often causes problems. Problems with manufacturers also happen, I know Josh had some issues with his most recent ti delivery.

I remember very well when the same problem caused a lot of negativity towards d-nail too! It isn't their fault guys, titanium manufacturers seem to be prone to these kinds of fuck-ups. I know a number of vape manufacturers are bringing their titanium manufacturing in-house as a result, but this is very expensive and time consuming too so we can't expect Josh to implement alternatives like this overnight!

I think most folks need to realize that almost every vape company is a small business. Small businesses can get overwhelmed with too many customers and orders, this happens. Josh has kept in contact with me personally in a reasonably timely fashion on any delays etc! I should say that the time it took me setting the unit up the first time did include having to turn off my d-nail after it fully heated up with the liger intake screwed in too far to the banger dish. Also this included my typical iso/steam/high heat sterilization process of cleaning each part (mandatory for all new vape stuff in this herby household)!

Instructions will fix most issues with assembling the unit, the remaining issue (heater shroud) will be fixed when the final model comes in. I am actually glad that Josh has given us the washer as a stop-gap. It really is the best we can expect of him while he recoups from issues with the recent ti components.

I will not have any problem recommending Josh's products. There have been hiccups, but he makes it right, he hands out meaningful free stuff in consolation for things being delayed etc. I respect that. We don't always get it right the first time! There were a few accessories that came to me for free to make up for some issues which were greatly appreciated!

All in all, my experience has been positive, not perfect. That is no problem, I've honestly not had a perfect experience with many vape manufacturers. This owes to the industry being in its infancy and almost universally operating via small owner-operated businesses.

Hi Friend - Yes, but it seems you can open or close them in increments of whole integers (ain't that a high falutin way of saying it! haha). I see someone suggesting partially plugging a hole up with cotton but given their small size, I think one open hole is the best you can do short of all closed.

I supposed you could take a VERY small dab of JB Weld or the like and try to build it up to close off part of the first hole (maybe with very small dental probe haha) but I would not want something that janky. I'm not sure I could tell the difference between one hole and 1/2 hole open.

lol isn't that some fancy language man, I feel like I should doff my hat to you! I appreciate the specific technical language though, it is easier to understand what you mean

I suggested plugging the hole with cotton originally These holes are quite small compared to the d-nail cap though which makes them harder to plug (they really are tiny, not that this is a bad thing - actually small intake holes are a positive where airflow direction to the banger intake going into the rig is concerned for reasons I mentioned a few posts back).

BTW, never put jbweld or any glue onto something that sits on top of your e-nail lol. e-nails and carbs get far too hot to be in contact with household adhesives

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

So is the v3 less restrictive vs the v2? I know it's the same air intake to the bucket but the direct inject looks different on v3. If it's the same i might just get v3 20mm bucket and the master hurricane cap.

While the designs are different the interior diameter of the V3 and V2 joints remain the same.

I agree with @herbivore21 about how the locking nut is kind of finnicky. I initially had a moment of panic after screwing my air intake all the way in and then trying to drop the insert in.

Some people like to put the insert into the bucket and then screw in the air-intake far enough to act as a stop. Then if the bucket gets accidentally turned over the insert won't fall out.
I like to keep the air-intake flush or slightly recessed so that one can hot-swap inserts more easily.

Does anyone know what the different carb cap positions correspond to? I have been having a difficult time figuring this out.

If you set the washer all the way to the left (in the first position) you have one hole open.
All the way to the right (fourth position) you'll have all four holes open.

I supposed you could take a VERY small dab of JB Weld or the like and try to build it up to close off part of the first hole (maybe with very small dental probe haha) but I would not want something that janky. I'm not sure I could tell the difference between one hole and 1/2 hole open.

I wouldn't want JB weld anywhere near my nail (or lungs), but the toothpick sounds like a good idea.
I'm aware of the high temperature enviroments where JB Weld repairs often exist, but it just makes me shudder a bit.

@alittledabwilldoya' and others - any idea of what may have been changed/revised between beta and prod on the 20 mm V3? I'm thinking about another Liger, my 2.0 20mm with SiC is just fine but I have another rig I would like to complete. So wondering about the 20mm and if there are any significant performance differences between the 2.0 and 3.0 in this smaller size....like the temp and fit issues being discussed about 3.0 flat coil?

The only difference between the V2 and V3 20mm buckets is the addition of the heat shroud in V3 to retain more heat.
Most people seemed quite pleased with V2.
Personally I found it to be wanting, contacted Josh with some suggestions and after a fairly long correspondence got asked aboard the Beta team for testing.

If all you need is a bucket, I would highly recommend picking up the V3 20mm.
But if you really like the V2 bucket, and still have VAS you could pick up a 20mm Sapphire insert, as that will fit right in your current V2 bucket.

 

[dizaster096]

but then i had the V2, and that one DID come with instructions!

I got no manual for v2 and i got it a lot later than most people But it only took me like 15 mins to setup i just ran it a little hotter on unit because coil was never stretched.

Since air restriction is the same i might not even get the v3. The sapphire insert would cost a little over 400cad with shipping and discount.

I might just get a gold bucket and hurricane carb cap i don't know.

 

[Baron23]

Some people like to put the insert into the bucket and then screw in the air-intake far enough to act as a stop. Then if the bucket gets accidentally turned over the insert won't fall out.
I like to keep the air-intake flush or slightly recessed so that one can hot-swap inserts more easily.

@herbivore21 - I think you mentioned not being able to get your insert into your assembled Liger. I had the same quizzical experience the first time I put it together (except mine wasn't hot yet! LOL) and then it dawned on me that this was perhaps by design in order to secure some very expensive inserts.

I did query Josh on that and he confirmed that by design he left just enough thread length to overhand the insert and keep it from falling out, but he also confirmed that there is no issue with only screwing it in flush for those who want to quickly swap inserts.

Edit - Ok, just read @alittledabwilldoya' last post, so I'm somewhat redundant!

I wouldn't want JB weld anywhere near my nail (or lungs), but the toothpick sounds like a good idea.
I'm aware of the high temperature enviroments where JB Weld repairs often exist, but it just makes me shudder a bit.

The JB Weld suggestion was made just a bit tongue in cheek. As mentioned, I also just wouldn't want something like that cobbled together. But as you did point out, JB Weld is used in high temp applications like automotive.

And thanks for your reply. I have found the V2.0 very satisfying. What were the shortfalls of the 2.0 that you identified? What were you dissatisfied with. For me, so far the only shortfall I found was the mechanical mating between the bucket and the Storm cap did not provide enough guidance to get it in the proper place confidently.

I have a second controller and coil and was thinking about just ordering a 20mm 3.0 with SiC and a Hurricane cap. But I'm still thinking about it.

Cheers

 

[dizaster096]

@Baron23

I might not even get any v3 parts and just get the hurricane cap it fixes the problem of you finding the threading to lock in storm cap. It's the main reason i wanted the v3 i thought new caps only worked on v3 versions but it says both caps work on previous & current generations. I already run low temps on unit more ti would just add more weight while the v2 heavy already (small 6.5 inch rig).

 

[Monsoon]

The Liger has landed! I cleaned all the parts and put them together based on @mutten840's instructions a few pages back, probably spent more time trying to figure out how I was going to orient everything. I was only able to hand tighten it for now as my wrench couldn't get a lock, could someone post a pic of the one they used? Anyway it'll do for now.

I took my first dab off the sapphire at 610F, it was a little wispy but the flavour was amazing! Definitely on par with the Halo, maybe a bit better but it's still too early to say.

 

[LazyIdol]

Any recommendations on how to clean titanium?

Adjusted my air intake while cleaning before work this morning and when I came home and flipped it on the bucket fell off at high temperature, the quartz insert fell onto and burned a hole through one of my adidas running hats. In my haste not knowing what to do with the 600 degree piece of Ti in my hand I grabbed the closest cloth and tried to screw it back onto the air intake. I accomplished this but the heat melted part of the cloth and my liger is now visibly discolored.

Edit:

After calming down a bit (Couldn't take a dab to calm myself down cause I had just fucked up my dab rig haha)

Appears that I was able to scrap the burnt plastic off of the quartz nail using my saftey razor and soaking in ISO..

The nail is slowly coming clean through use of a toothbrush, my fingernails, and some papertowels with soap/Windex on them. It appears that not too much lasting damage was done, except to the hat. which now has a 20mm quartz insert sized hole burned through it

 

[mutten840]

@LazyIdol Damn that sucks serious balls. Since it is TI, you should be able to torch it off. Or maybe toss it in to the freezer and see if it will get brittle and hard enough to be chipped off. Maybe post a pic as it might help solve this riddle.

 

[LazyIdol]

@LazyIdol Damn that sucks serious balls. Since it is TI, you should be able to torch it off. Or maybe toss it in to the freezer and see if it will get brittle and hard enough to be chipped off. Maybe post a pic as it might help solve this riddle.

I actually recovered about as well as could be expected from this situation. I believe I was overreacting a bit from my first post.

The Quartz nail + hat was more concerning than the enail + cloth situation. There were bits of black burnt plastic on the bottom/sides of the insert where it contacted. I used a razor blade to carefully scrape this off and then soaked in iso and gave a generous cleaning.

For the enail, It seemed that a layer of the cloth vaporized onto the exterior, I used my fingernail + a toothbrush + soap + windex to scrape this off. I finished by gently scrubbing with the kitchen dish brush. Used the razor blade from my safety razor in the problem areas.

Currently heating everything back up to see if we are still operable!!

 

[PoopMachine]

This guys customer service doesn't seem worth my business. I was very interested in this but these last few pages are a total turn off. I don't want to buy from anyone who is not interacting with this community and providing direct support.

The only bad thing I will say about Josh is that he misses shipping commitments. However, his customer service is outstanding. Hes always gone the extra mile for me and even tho Ive bitched about him here some, thats just how I am. I am a complainer. Ask Mrs P.

I dont know of another company in this industry with service as good as his. No one is perfect but he's always made stuff right for me.

 

[mutten840]

@LazyIdol I think for the quartz you can use PBW or something similar and let it soak. You can also try to carefully torch the quartz insert to try and burn some of the funk off

Keep us posted

 

[LazyIdol]

Appears that I am back in action. After thoroughly cleaning everything and heating it back up it appears to be working just fine. No weird smells or anything during heat off.

I am really coming to appreciate the Liger, I am currently at 640 with the Quartz insert. Where I was typically around 680-710 before with my Dhgate Hyman Enail.

I really like the liger and the insert system, it makes everything super easy to clean. A dab has never actually touched the bottom of my liger as I have kept the quartz insert in there.

I would definitely recommend the Liger to friends and people on FC, just know that it can be a little user unfriendly/unwieldy at first. I had an enail for about 6 weeks of daily use and still felt a little overwhelemed on day 1, and even more so when I just dropped the bucket onto the desk while heated up.

As my incident just now shows me I am still learning. I now keep a plate next to my vape station incase this comes unthreaded again. I am still not crazy about the locking nut system ( I feel like I have to either tighten with pliers or just be careful with the angle).

Many of my complaints stem from poor communication and missed shipping dates. But as noted, Josh is in the midst of an unexpectedly large product launch right now and I am sure these issues will improve with time.

 

[Baron23]

@Baron23

I might not even get any v3 parts and just get the hurricane cap it fixes the problem of you finding the threading to lock in storm cap. It's the main reason i wanted the v3 i thought new caps only worked on v3 versions but it says both caps work on previous & current generations. I already run low temps on unit more ti would just add more weight while the v2 heavy already (small 6.5 inch rig).

Yep, I've been considering that also. Thanks!

@LazyIdol - glad you recovered. I just got a brand new EVO and got so baked the very first session with it that I forgot to put the cap on the ELB and filled the bottom compartment of the Hydrotube with ground herb. After freaking out about my now ugly brand new HT, I did manage to get it all out. LOL

So, above somewhere we discussed that Josh designed the Liger for the airway tube to extend a bit into the bucket in order to lock in the insert. Josh did indicate that some folks like to have their tube flush in order to be able to quickly change inserts. However, in this discussion we also agreed that leaving it flush will also result in very few threads holding it on. You may wish to consider screwing your air path further into the bucket. Good luck, mate.

 

[Monsoon]

For tightening I used an adjustable wrench and after thjinking about it for a bit I lined up the top edges of the wrench with the notches in the disc and gently turned it. That worked great, you don't need to go much further with a wrench as the threading is very short, less than a full turn. I also gently spread out the coil a bit with a screwdriver and combined the results are a bit better.

I tried to dab with the underside dabber but even with the tip flush with the bottom I'm not sure I'm getting a complete seal when I'm using it with the hurricane cap and sapphire insert. I only tried the flathead so far, I'll have to check the others later on. If it is too long it's not by much, might even just be that combo. I'm feeling very, very high right now, I think it may be as much the new vapor profile but in any case I'm pretty happy with it so far.

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

@herbivore21 - I think you mentioned not being able to get your insert into your assembled Liger. I had the same quizzical experience the first time I put it together (except mine wasn't hot yet! LOL) and then it dawned on me that this was perhaps by design in order to secure some very expensive inserts.

I did query Josh on that and he confirmed that by design he left just enough thread length to overhand the insert and keep it from falling out, but he also confirmed that there is no issue with only screwing it in flush for those who want to quickly swap inserts.

Edit - Ok, just read @alittledabwilldoya' last post, so I'm somewhat redundant!



The JB Weld suggestion was made just a bit tongue in cheek. As mentioned, I also just wouldn't want something like that cobbled together. But as you did point out, JB Weld is used in high temp applications like automotive.

And thanks for your reply. I have found the V2.0 very satisfying. What were the shortfalls of the 2.0 that you identified? What were you dissatisfied with. For me, so far the only shortfall I found was the mechanical mating between the bucket and the Storm cap did not provide enough guidance to get it in the proper place confidently.

I have a second controller and coil and was thinking about just ordering a 20mm 3.0 with SiC and a Hurricane cap. But I'm still thinking about it.

Cheers

Haha!! re: JBWeld!

My underwhelmed feelings of V2 may well have come from having a somewhat too loose 20mm coil.
And the gargantuan dabber tips.
+ I was used to being able to see the dabbing surface of the Halo vs. the deep cauldron of the 20mm Liger (not that big of a deal, but it did make some difference; FWIW I love the 20mm V3).

I got into dabbing 7/20 of last year (no combustion since).
Following @herbivore21's advice I bought the DNail SiC Halo, primarily as they were the only company offering a SiC nail surface.
I tried and tried to get onto the first public release of the DNail Sapphire Halo, to the point that I almost much gave and got bored enough to hope that the Liger V2 with SiC insert would eclipse the SiC Halo.
Pretty much the next day I recieved contact from DNail saying I was in on the first public Sapphire Halo release.
I received the Sapphire Halo long before the V2 Liger; and the Sapphire Halo was so damn good that I really didn't fuck around with the V2.

Yep, I've been considering that also. Thanks!

@LazyIdol - glad you recovered. I just got a brand new EVO and got so baked the very first session with it that I forgot to put the cap on the ELB and filled the bottom compartment of the Hydrotube with ground herb. After freaking out about my now ugly brand new HT, I did manage to get it all out. LOL

So, above somewhere we discussed that Josh designed the Liger for the airway tube to extend a bit into the bucket in order to lock in the insert. Josh did indicate that some folks like to have their tube flush in order to be able to quickly change inserts. However, in this discussion we also agreed that leaving it flush will also result in very few threads holding it on. You may wish to consider screwing your air path further into the bucket. Good luck, mate.

I typically keep my airpath flush with the bucket to ease the switching of inserts.
Plenty of engaged threads to keep the bucket secure.