CCA Liger banger V3.0

[herbivore21]

So the thermal properties of SiC are better than sapphire? I have noticed the sapphire has a hard time with large dabs at low temps. At 610 there is no point in attempting one as you can't finish it in one inhale. Anything higher doesn't taste as good. Is SiC better suited for larger dabs? Videos seem to make it look that way.

Have you used the Storm Cell 3.0? I have the hurricane and am not sure if I like it. I want to buy a Storm Cell to compare as I think the hurricane leaks too much air no matter what air hole setting I use.

Hope you have more thoughts on the V3 coil

Let me just highlight that large dabs never taste as good as small dabs. This is because by the time you get to the end of a really big dab at a sufficiently low temp, you've got a bunch of decomposing byproducts on your nail along with the rest of the dab yet to vaporize. Very few of the substances known to man can be subjected to temps like this for any protracted period and still taste or smell the same.

Smaller dabs taste better than bigger dabs (to a point) on any nail for this reason.

SiC does not taste better than sapphire. It does vaporize quicker, but just leave your cap on and inhale longer on the sapphire - the taste stays just as good so long as your dab is not so huge that you have to turn the temp up too high! If you want to do one quick hit and finish the entire dab, dab smaller! If you want to do gigantic dabs then you have to come to terms with the need to jack up the temp somewhat at some stage (stable uptemp tek is ideal for this task). With the exception of stable uptemp, higher temps are gonna taste worse. Ain't no way around it, whether it is SiC, Quartz or Sapphire.

Sapphire still has a flavor that is worlds away from SiC and gets full vaporization for my needs without the flavor deteriorating. Remember, you don't need to take your carb cap off until you've finished inhaling the vapor! You can stop to take a breath while the cap is on the dish and you won't waste your vapor in the meantime, then finish off the hit! When temps are low enough, the dab tastes good from start to finish on sapphire in a way that can't be achieved on other nails.

There is a definite point of diminishing returns with large dabs. I find when you get to big dabs beyond .1-.15g or so you really start to need to sacrifice flavor to get it all vaporized and inhaled at once on any nail. This is because it is too big of a load for low temp vaporization to complete the hit in a reasonable amount of time and this time exposed to heat will cause bad taste.

A large dab on SiC may vaporize quicker (but of course requires hotter temps than what you can dab small on SiC with), but it will not taste as good as the same material dabbed on sapphire.

 

[brucee10]

My Golden Liger is beautiful. I got a big box of parts and I've already put my flat coil in, but I'm debating stretching it a bit. My coil is almost the exact same size as the washer, and with the washer it's tight against the surface so it might not be worth it. I just need to get home from work and I get to play.

On a side note, Josh forgot my Storm Cell cap, but he did send all the 10mm fittings and both the ball and stinger handles for the cap. Luckily this allows me to order the cap and throw in the SiC insert to complete my Liger 3.0 setup. At least I can use my Hurricane cap while I wait.

 

[ReeferChiefer]

I have to comment on the efficiency. Are we right saying it's efficient? Or is that it simply can't handle large dabs at such low temps so we end up doing small ones that it can handle?

I can't help but think I should be able to finish my dabs in one inhale with the liger even at low temps.

The lower the temp, the less you will vaporize. That's just how it works. You're used to hotter temp dabs, maybe? I am, I still don't like wasting the oil just to make it taste better. I smoke to get medicated, and I find I get a better experience with low temps but not a better 'high'.

hot and hurty tend to put me on the moon.

 

[mutten840]

@brucee10 I would say try it without stretching your coil and just make sure it is as snug as possible. If your temps are not as expected. You can then try to spread the coil. My flat coil is the same size as my washer and works great =)

 

[HexNailAva]

There is a definite point of diminishing returns with large dabs. I find when you get to big dabs beyond .1-.15g or so you really start to need to sacrifice flavor to get it all vaporized and inhaled at once on any nail. This is because it is too big of a load for low temp vaporization to complete the hit in a reasonable amount of time and this time exposed to heat will cause bad taste.

A large dab on SiC may vaporize quicker (but of course requires hotter temps than what you can dab small on SiC with), but it will not taste as good as the same material dabbed on sapphire.

Definitely agree on both points here.

I love my 0.4 globs, but slow, small and steady wins the race in the long run. The Sapphire inserts really are incredible. The flavor on my mini rig with it is insanity. As is hitting a baby rig with a 30mm dish hanging off of it.

When I glob on my own I exhale the first lungful out my nose. Helps with the flavor loss aspect a lot. Some people think it burns, but as someone who used to smoke about 7 blunts a day (and a pack of cigs)...It's totally fine. I miss the burn sometimes. Just get it in a different way now.

 

[Baron23]

Yup I'll be doing the same, only one hole open at the most! Is it possible to set the airflow on the caps so that you can have one single hole only half open? I'd probably prefer this!

I keep my V2 Storm cap to one open hole these days. As far as I can tell, the new caps have the same basic approach to adjustable air flow so no, I don't think you can have 1 1/2 holes open!

 

[herbivore21]

I keep my V2 Storm cap to one open hole these days. As far as I can tell, the new caps have the same basic approach to adjustable air flow so no, I don't think you can have 1 1/2 holes open!

I was actually thinking more about 1/2 open rather than an entire hole, do you think this would work? Thanks for the tip my friend!

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

Let me just highlight that large dabs never taste as good as small dabs. This is because by the time you get to the end of a really big dab at a sufficiently low temp, you've got a bunch of decomposing byproducts on your nail along with the rest of the dab yet to vaporize. Very few of the substances known to man can be subjected to temps like this for any protracted period and still taste or smell the same.

Smaller dabs taste better than bigger dabs (to a point) on any nail for this reason.

SiC does not taste better than sapphire. It does vaporize quicker, but just leave your cap on and inhale longer on the sapphire - the taste stays just as good so long as your dab is not so huge that you have to turn the temp up too high! If you want to do one quick hit and finish the entire dab, dab smaller! If you want to do gigantic dabs then you have to come to terms with the need to jack up the temp somewhat at some stage (stable uptemp tek is ideal for this task). With the exception of stable uptemp, higher temps are gonna taste worse. Ain't no way around it, whether it is SiC, Quartz or Sapphire.

Sapphire still has a flavor that is worlds away from SiC and gets full vaporization for my needs without the flavor deteriorating. Remember, you don't need to take your carb cap off until you've finished inhaling the vapor! You can stop to take a breath while the cap is on the dish and you won't waste your vapor in the meantime, then finish off the hit! When temps are low enough, the dab tastes good from start to finish on sapphire in a way that can't be achieved on other nails.

There is a definite point of diminishing returns with large dabs. I find when you get to big dabs beyond .1-.15g or so you really start to need to sacrifice flavor to get it all vaporized and inhaled at once on any nail. This is because it is too big of a load for low temp vaporization to complete the hit in a reasonable amount of time and this time exposed to heat will cause bad taste.

A large dab on SiC may vaporize quicker (but of course requires hotter temps than what you can dab small on SiC with), but it will not taste as good as the same material dabbed on sapphire.

Agreed on all points.
Sapphire is the flavor winner, but at night I like to pop in the SiC dish and crank up the heat a bit to dab a bit o' reclaim (good for insomnia + efficient use of meds).
With regard to dab size, I'm normally in the .05/dab (although I go through ~1g/day).
I prefer to get near complete vaporization in the first hit, with maybe a clean up hit to finish.

I was actually thinking more about 1/2 open rather than an entire hole, do you think this would work? Thanks for the tip my friend!

Not really.
But you could partially clog the remaining open hole w/ cotton.
And you can flip the air inlet control washer upside down and it will still fit in it's recess.
It's possible that could give you a "1/2 hole open effect".

My Golden Liger is beautiful. I got a big box of parts and I've already put my flat coil in, but I'm debating stretching it a bit. My coil is almost the exact same size as the washer, and with the washer it's tight against the surface so it might not be worth it. I just need to get home from work and I get to play.

On a side note, Josh forgot my Storm Cell cap, but he did send all the 10mm fittings and both the ball and stinger handles for the cap. Luckily this allows me to order the cap and throw in the SiC insert to complete my Liger 3.0 setup. At least I can use my Hurricane cap while I wait.

Nice!
Pretty pictures?
And I agree with @mutten840 re: coil stretching; try it w/o stretching first.

Definitely agree on both points here.

I love my 0.4 globs, but slow, small and steady wins the race in the long run. The Sapphire inserts really are incredible. The flavor on my mini rig with it is insanity. As is hitting a baby rig with a 30mm dish hanging off of it.

When I glob on my own I exhale the first lungful out my nose. Helps with the flavor loss aspect a lot. Some people think it burns, but as someone who used to smoke about 7 blunts a day (and a pack of cigs)...It's totally fine. I miss the burn sometimes. Just get it in a different way now.

.4g globs!?!
Well, I suppose it's all in the name of product development.




... And I received my production version 30mm bucket (although not the production shroud) and am getting much better results.

The finalized 30mm is ~2mm shorter to provide reduced volume to aid vaporization.
It also boasts a rounded top edge (vs a 45* edge in the beta bucket) and a slightly redesigned outer bottom edge that should retain a bit more heat.
I had already spread my flat coil, but decided to spread it a bit more and to get it more symmetric.
Then I broke out the ol' channel locks and cranked down the bottom locking nut.
I used a t-shirt as a pad, but a nice piece of thin leather or chamois would work even better.
ISO soaked the Sapphire insert and gave a light scrub with a qtip and salt.
Cleaned the Ball-Cycler.

And achieved Dabbing Nirvana, I am so blasted right now.

 

[herbivore21]

Agreed on all points.
Sapphire is the flavor winner, but at night I like to pop in the SiC dish and crank up the heat a bit to dab a bit o' reclaim (good for insomnia + efficient use of meds).
With regard to dab size, I'm normally in the .05/dab (although I go through ~1g/day).
I prefer to get near complete vaporization in the first hit, with maybe a clean up hit to finish.



Not really.
But you could partially clog the remaining open hole w/ cotton.
And you can flip the air inlet control washer upside down and it will still fit in it's recess.
It's possible that could give you a "1/2 hole open effect".




Nice!
Pretty pictures?
And I agree with @mutten840 re: coil stretching; try it w/o stretching first.



.4g globs!?!
Well, I suppose it's all in the name of product development.




... And I received my production version 30mm bucket (although not the production shroud) and am getting much better results.

The finalized 30mm is ~2mm shorter to provide reduced volume to aid vaporization.
It also boasts a rounded top edge (vs a 45* edge in the beta bucket) and a slightly redesigned outer bottom edge that should retain a bit more heat.
I had already spread my flat coil, but decided to spread it a bit more and to get it more symmetric.
Then I broke out the ol' channel locks and cranked down the bottom locking nut.
I used a t-shirt as a pad, but a nice piece of thin leather or chamois would work even better.
ISO soaked the Sapphire insert and gave a light scrub with a qtip and salt.
Cleaned the Ball-Cycler.

And achieved Dabbing Nirvana, I am so blasted right now.

Lol man I'm imagining regularly doing .4 globs of my full melt... That is insanely expensive dabbing - reserved for multi-millionaires lol

 

[HexNailAva]

.4g globs!?!
Well, I suppose it's all in the name of product development.

*business-y voiceover*

"We at Hex-Nail strive to provide the best possible experience for our customers by doing all the hard work for you! Product testing is quite grueling and we work long hours into the night to make sure you receive only the best by the time your unit arrives."

Oh...and because...science...yeah...science!

Lol man I'm imagining regularly doing .4 globs of my full melt... That is insanely expensive dabbing - reserved for multi-millionaires lol

...or folks with the right friends in Mendo.

 

[herbivore21]

My Golden Liger is beautiful. I got a big box of parts and I've already put my flat coil in, but I'm debating stretching it a bit. My coil is almost the exact same size as the washer, and with the washer it's tight against the surface so it might not be worth it. I just need to get home from work and I get to play.

On a side note, Josh forgot my Storm Cell cap, but he did send all the 10mm fittings and both the ball and stinger handles for the cap. Luckily this allows me to order the cap and throw in the SiC insert to complete my Liger 3.0 setup. At least I can use my Hurricane cap while I wait.

Hey man, just a quick message to say that Josh told me that there was a delay on the storm cell caps arriving in stock but these will be shipped out to those customers when they get to CCA, Josh will cover shipping IIRC.

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

I received an update from Josh @ CCA for V3 30mm owners regarding coil shrouds / locking nuts.
He asked me to share it with the community:

"I have yet to receive the updated Flat heater coil shields & coil nuts. As soon as they arrive I will be sending them out to you as well as everyone else who has a Flat coil Liger (everyone currently has a shield not to spec, which is why I sent washers along). I should have the new shields very soon! With the new design you will be able to ensure ALL flat coils are 100% flush (anywhere from 9mm thick to 2.5mm thick, this should cover every flat coil on the planet including the double wrapped D-nail flat coils)! No more issues with coils not being flush!"


Sounds like they will be in soon.
The more robust design should retain more heat and ensure complete contact.
Picture of finalized shroud/nut: https://www.instagram.com/p/BMpn20khSjU/?taken-by=cca710

 

[herbivore21]

I received an update from Josh @ CCA for V3 30mm owners regarding coil shrouds / locking nuts.
He asked me to share it with the community:

"I have yet to receive the updated Flat heater coil shields & coil nuts. As soon as they arrive I will be sending them out to you as well as everyone else who has a Flat coil Liger (everyone currently has a shield not to spec, which is why I sent washers along). I should have the new shields very soon! With the new design you will be able to ensure ALL flat coils are 100% flush (anywhere from 9mm thick to 2.5mm thick, this should cover every flat coil on the planet including the double wrapped D-nail flat coils)! No more issues with coils not being flush!"


Sounds like they will be in soon.
The more robust design should retain more heat and ensure complete contact.
Picture of finalized shroud/nut: https://www.instagram.com/p/BMpn20khSjU/?taken-by=cca710

Thanks for sharing this brother, was going to shoot Josh an email to ask about the heater shields and washers. Glad we have the washers provided in either case to keep things working for the meantime

I think written assembly instructions need to happen for these units though, there are a lot of parts to assemble (not necessarily a problem, but plenty of folks will appreciate a clear explanation of what everything is and where it goes).

 

[Monsoon]

I received an update from Josh @ CCA for V3 30mm owners regarding coil shrouds / locking nuts.
He asked me to share it with the community:

"I have yet to receive the updated Flat heater coil shields & coil nuts. As soon as they arrive I will be sending them out to you as well as everyone else who has a Flat coil Liger (everyone currently has a shield not to spec, which is why I sent washers along). I should have the new shields very soon! With the new design you will be able to ensure ALL flat coils are 100% flush (anywhere from 9mm thick to 2.5mm thick, this should cover every flat coil on the planet including the double wrapped D-nail flat coils)! No more issues with coils not being flush!"


Sounds like they will be in soon.
The more robust design should retain more heat and ensure complete contact.
Picture of finalized shroud/nut: https://www.instagram.com/p/BMpn20khSjU/?taken-by=cca710

Appreciate the update but IMO Josh really needs to send this out as an email blast to everyone he shipped to especially if orders are missing Storm caps. Ideally he should have done it before people started receiving their stuff but better late than never. I know personally it's a major pet peeve of mine when a company knowingly splits an order and I only find out after opening the box. If people know first, there's no unpleasant surprise at least.

----

EDIT: Mine just cleared customs in my city so it should be here tomorrow (Tuesday)! I got the 30mm with Sapphire and SiC inserts and both carb caps so I'll at least have the hurricane to play with for now. I'm really curious to see how it stands up to the D-Nail Sapphire Halo.

 

[dizaster096]

So is the v3 less restrictive vs the v2? I know it's the same air intake to the bucket but the direct inject looks different on v3. If it's the same i might just get v3 20mm bucket and the master hurricane cap.

 

[herbivore21]

So is the v3 less restrictive vs the v2? I know it's the same air intake to the bucket but the direct inject looks different on v3. If it's the same i might just get v3 20mm bucket and the master hurricane cap.

I figured that I would give my first feedback having used the Liger briefly now. One major thing I'm noticing is that assembly is quite finicky. You guys know I'm a very technically minded person - about as much so as it gets. It took me a solid 2+ hours to get the unit assembled properly and working in the first attempt. This is no doubt largely relating to no written instructions being provided. Considerations relating to the locking nut (see below) could have been mentioned there to spare me some trouble.

The main issue I've had is getting the locking nut into position easily. It is a very finicky job. I've also noticed that if the side arm section is screwed fully into the 30mm bucket, the thread blocks the insert from being installed. This caused me a moment of frustration when I tried to cap!

I am glad to note that one of my favorite heady marbles carbs the 30mm dish perfectly This was a pleasant surprise!

I did not have issues with the heater coil setup. I used my d-nail coil with the supplied washer as per the instructions given and have not found that I need to stretch out my coil at all.

I have to say, compared to the d-nail sapphire halo - the taste on my 30mm sapphire insert/Liger is not distinguishable! This is not a negative at all though, since the sapphire halo has set the peerless benchmark up until now for the best flavor going. You are not going to find a tastier nail than either company's sapphire flagship, regardless of which form/design suits you.

So far, the Liger with sapphire insert is a different way to enjoy the flavor of sapphire. Not necessarily clearly better or worse, but suited to different folks, depending on how much surface area you seek for dabbing, your tolerance for extra assembly steps and parts to clean.

Also it really needs to be noted that buying a complete liger setup is a fair amount more expensive than the sapphire halo setup due to the increased price/amount of titanium for the main Liger banger (the inserts are similarly priced to the respective halos however). One gripe I have about a design using free-floating inserts inside a bucket is that qtipping makes the insert spin around, rendering cleaning after each dab a little more difficult than with my other nails. This is a minor gripe though.

I really like the look of the Liger nail. It matches the colors of my heady rig perfectly and the size of the dish is so helpful for me. It is big enough that I can use my small dish that I keep my next dab inside of to pour the contents straight into the banger! That would have made a terrible mess with the d-nail halo! I am definitely satisfied and I am glad to finally see different sapphire options available.

So far, if you ask me, either sapphire offering is well worth your money, and depending on your preferences on the above (and other factors no doubt! I didn't cover them all by any means).

Both provide equally great taste and vaporization when the temp is dialled in. Both have different pros and cons for different people's preferences.

All in all, I am happy so far!

EDIT: I am beyond happy to confirm that the D-nail forked dabber tip fits into the liger carb caps with no problem at all holding the adjustable airflow nut in place It sits super flush and looks the part to boot

 

[Armerad]

I figured that I would give my first feedback having used the Liger briefly now...
EDIT: I am beyond happy to confirm that the D-nail forked dabber tip fits into the liger carb caps with no problem at all holding the adjustable airflow nut in place It sits super flush and looks the part to boot

Any chance of pictures?

 

[Danksta]

I had a wonderful night with my liger last night. I was doing super tasty dabs all night on clean sapphire and each hit tasted wonderful. Sapphire is pretty amazing. Being able to get consistent taste hit after hit was exactly why I bought this. I've also adjusted my carb cap method and can finish dabs in one hit. I'm sure I used less oil last night than I would have with my hybrid. I was just as medicated, but more importantly each dab tasted amazing. Part of the medical benefits is enjoyment and the liger with sapphire gives me plenty of enjoyment.

I just wanted to say to anyone who just got one and is fighting with it not to give up. I nearly did and I would have missed out the flavor train people talk about. That train exists and it's amazing.

Even though I like the sapphire, I really wanna try the SiC. I might order an insert when I order a Storm Cell.

Glad to hear the final shields are still to come. I agree an email blast to everyone would have been better. I only heard the news because I emailed him and then I see he sent the same email to others. An email blast would have prevented some anger. I know I would have been in a better mood Friday when I got mine had I known I was sent the beta.

I'm sure these lessons will be learned when the V4 comes out. Josh is def good people.

 

[GSR]

Starting from 600 degrees F on my controller, i've been trying temps out in increments of 5-10. Finally found my temps for SiC with what im using

525 for nice clouds
495 for taste

My old nail could only get me to 625 (according to my controller) which is why I started at 600. Lord knows that was a loooong trip because of that high starting point. I had to keep going until I knew though

 

[Hogni]

Thanks for sharing this brother, was going to shoot Josh an email to ask about the heater shields and washers. Glad we have the washers provided in either case to keep things working for the meantime

I think written assembly instructions need to happen for these units though, there are a lot of parts to assemble (not necessarily a problem, but plenty of folks will appreciate a clear explanation of what everything is and where it goes).

I got this from Josh:

"For issues surrounding the Flat Coil Liger 3.0s & the heater coils: I included a temporary washer with all orders to help ensure the coil is 100% flush with the vapor bucket. The main point is this is TEMPORARY! I have new heater coil shields being made that will eliminate the need of the washer, while ensuring maximum contact (the efficiency will skyrocket!).


Installation videos & reviews are all in the works!"

Josh told me too that he intends to create a FC account for better and faster communication

 

[ReeferChiefer]

I'm glad things are looking better for you all. I'm now itching to get my hands on some sapphire but to be honest I don't have access to the tasty stuff... or the money... lol

 

[LazyIdol]

Got mine yesterday. Still playing around with it. I immediately spread my 20mm coil while installing it onto my liger.

So far I am pretty pleased, still trying to dial it in but have been getting pretty decent hits with the Quartz insert @ 650 so far. Look forward to testing it more after work.

I agree with @herbivore21 about how the locking nut is kind of finnicky. I initially had a moment of panic after screwing my air intake all the way in and then trying to drop the insert in.

Still waiting on the storm cell and SiC insert. I agree with others that this issue could of been handled better. It seems like Josh really has his hands full but surely emailing people before hand en-mass would have been easier than answering many emails about the same issue.

I know I personally waited to hear back from him before using the quartz insert, if it had been a mistake I didn't want make it un-returnable (But I was totally itching to dab off the new piece ASAP)

Does anyone know what the different carb cap positions correspond to? I have been having a difficult time figuring this out.

Edit: Will add pics when I get home from work!

 

[brucee10]

Just a quick shot in the morning sun. I'm going to get some better ones this weekend. My coil is a 250W and I used the washer to snug it to the base. It's getting excellent contact and it's ripping. The Hurricane cap isn't as amazing as I want it to be, but I figure a lot of that is a learning curve. I'm running my coil at 670 right now. Hopefully I can get my temp probe running tonight so I can give actual measurements from the sapphire surface.

PS - I apologize for the dirty piece of glass from JoDa. It's soaking while I'm at work. I just need a UV led stand for it now.

 

[invertedisdead]

This guys customer service doesn't seem worth my business. I was very interested in this but these last few pages are a total turn off. I don't want to buy from anyone who is not interacting with this community and providing direct support.

 

[KimDracula]

I suggest it would be a mistake to give too much weight to recent loud complaints regarding the Liger. Those reactions are definitely atypical.