Arizer Solo

[MadWhack]

Picking up my SS today. I'll post some initial impressions than post a more detailed review comparing it to the MFLB.

Btw is there a FC feedback forum or email? The forum structure is awful, reminds me of forums in the 90s. There are a lot of wasted posts and just having a sense of organization would be beneficial to all parties. Not to mention if nothing were to change its only a matter of time until a better functioning competitor site rises up.

 

[guitarscreamngrowler]

i got a ceramic solo saturday no smell no sound works amazing love this unit every second of it. hits better than extreme q uses barely an herbs like a rockzap or purple days. i got 17 hits off one stem. big clouds

 

[SD_haze]

Picking up my SS today. I'll post some initial impressions than post a more detailed review comparing it to the MFLB.

Btw is there a FC feedback forum or email? The forum structure is awful, reminds me of forums in the 90s. There are a lot of wasted posts and just having a sense of organization would be beneficial to all parties. Not to mention if nothing were to change its only a matter of time until a better functioning competitor site rises up.

Not long ago there were a lot less forum categories, but the problem was things would get knocked off the front page really quickly.

Maybe some middle ground might work better

 

[VapeNStone]

Yeah, vaping of the oil that way is really awesome imo. I would have bought a Solo just for that if had known that this was possible from the start, lol. On the downside it made me like the oils so much I'm already planning to do my first BHO run next summer, which will probably result in me buying a Eclipse H20 as well. It never ends now does it?

lol. I actually have a friend that went out and bought the solo just because of that lol. I am also going to start doing some BHO runs as well. I think once I start getting into oil I'll buy the Omicron.

 

[darkrom]

I'm curious why Arizer originally claimed it was one bad batch and is now discontinuing the ceramic models. If it was one bad batch this would not be the case. They designed it with ceramic for a reason, better heat retention. I am seriously trying to figure out what is going on because I don't want such a strong portable to just fall off my radar. It just needs improvements and probably a redesign, but they were really close IMO.

If it was one bad batch they wouldn't kill the ceramic model, yet here they are. I just don't know what to make of that. Did they lie before when they said it was a bad batch? If so why should I trust anything they say at all? I find it unsettling at best.

 

[MG23]

I'm curious why Arizer originally claimed it was one bad batch and is now discontinuing the ceramic models. If it was one bad batch this would not be the case. They designed it with ceramic for a reason, better heat retention. I am seriously trying to figure out what is going on because I don't want such a strong portable to just fall off my radar. It just needs improvements and probably a redesign, but they were really close IMO.

If it was one bad batch they wouldn't kill the ceramic model, yet here they are. I just don't know what to make of that. Did they lie before when they said it was a bad batch? If so why should I trust anything they say at all? I find it unsettling at best.

You can't understand the overhead nightmare that would come along with continuing a unit that has a weak point with such a high failure possibility vs. another unit that is roughly the same but avoids the risk completely? A weak point that people themselves could force to fail (not that I'm downplaying natural chipping in undercooked units) just to get additional free units. They send a new unit everytime ceramic chips, meaning a very real possibility of two to three times the intended materials cost for each unit sold. It's a huge overhead risk and not one a profitable business would take when there is another option with no risk of chipping that works damn close. Hell, if they never came out with the SS version to give as replacements in the first place anyone with a screwdriver could have just scraped some ceramic from their bowl and would've been rewarded with a brand new unit each time.

SS has 0 chance of chipping and the only thing ceramic offers over SS is superior heat retention leading to superior battery life; a benefit for us. At some point giving us this benefit is far outweighed by Arizer's need to hit their bottom line.

From a business perspective why would you continue producing ceramic over the SS with 0 possibility of chipping if both units work roughly the same? Try to use some logic and think with a perspective other than your own before you jump to your own assumptions. You were a beta tester for their ceramic binding process and chipping has no effect on the unit other than inspiring a deep need to complain for a free additional unit. Get over it.

 

[Papa Woody]

I'm curious why Arizer originally claimed it was one bad batch and is now discontinuing the ceramic models. If it was one bad batch this would not be the case. They designed it with ceramic for a reason, better heat retention. I am seriously trying to figure out what is going on because I don't want such a strong portable to just fall off my radar. It just needs improvements and probably a redesign, but they were really close IMO.

If it was one bad batch they wouldn't kill the ceramic model, yet here they are. I just don't know what to make of that. Did they lie before when they said it was a bad batch? If so why should I trust anything they say at all? I find it unsettling at best.

Have you thought of the possibility that Arizer's "one batch" statement was put out because that was the information they believed at the time they stated that? Why do you think they lied? Let's see...the Solo was released around May 2011 (Rockwise's first post was dated 5-27-2011) after they did whatever amount of Beta testing Arizer deemed appropriate. It takes time for Arizer to sell their first group of Solos and it takes time for the first adopters to buy them. It takes time for those first units to get worked hard enough for the first reports of ceramic chipping to occur. This puts us in about late August to early September or so. Arizer starts getting these complaints and takes the time to investigate and work out a solution while shipping out replacements. Now we're in October which as I recall is about the time of the statement. Now more time and a few more iterations of ceramic Solos have started to get into everyday use and start chipping as well. A business decision has to be made at some point. So did they lie? I don't believe so. Time is the answer because it takes time for issues to arise and time for a company to react and correct and time to redesign an improved product. Were they close to perfection? I think they were. As I've stated in prior posts they could do a few changes to correct the issues that have appeared. Give them time to do it.

 

[MG23]

I'm curious why Arizer originally claimed it was one bad batch and is now discontinuing the ceramic models. If it was one bad batch this would not be the case. They designed it with ceramic for a reason, better heat retention. I am seriously trying to figure out what is going on because I don't want such a strong portable to just fall off my radar. It just needs improvements and probably a redesign, but they were really close IMO.

If it was one bad batch they wouldn't kill the ceramic model, yet here they are. I just don't know what to make of that. Did they lie before when they said it was a bad batch? If so why should I trust anything they say at all? I find it unsettling at best.

Have you thought of the possibility that Arizer's "one batch" statement was put out because that was the information they believed at the time they stated that? Why do you think they lied? Let's see...the Solo was released around May 2011 (Rockwise's first post was dated 5-27-2011) after they did whatever amount of Beta testing Arizer deemed appropriate. It takes time for Arizer to sell their first group of Solos and it takes time for the first adopters to buy them. It takes time for those first units to get worked hard enough for the first reports of ceramic chipping to occur. This puts us in about late August to early September or so. Arizer starts getting these complaints and takes the time to investigate and work out a solution while shipping out replacements. Now we're in October which as I recall is about the time of the statement. Now more time and a few more iterations of ceramic Solos have started to get into everyday use and start chipping as well. A business decision has to be made at some point. So did they lie? I don't believe so. Time is the answer because it takes time for issues to arise and time for a company to react and correct and time to redesign an improved product. Were they close to perfection? I think they were. As I've stated in prior posts they could do a few changes to correct the issues that have appeared. Give them time to do it.

+1

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i just don't get it ... i just don't see how a several molecule thick layer of ceramic can have any impact on "heat retention". The Solo has a dynamically controlled heater -- the battery can easily accommodate the cooling effect of taking a hit. Most likely all the differences between the SS and the Ceramic model are due to tuning the PID algorithm in the SS unit, based on extended field testing.

"Heat retention" is based on thermal mass -- that's why the PD has a boat load of SS washers around the heater. A dynamic heater doesn't need thermal mass -- based on my testing for the last 10 years.

 

[MG23]

i just don't get it ... i just don't see how a several molecule thick layer of ceramic can have any impact on "heat retention". The Solo has a dynamically controlled heater -- the battery can easily accommodate the cooling effect of taking a hit. Most likely all the differences between the SS and the Ceramic model are due to tuning the PID algorithm in the SS unit, based on extended field testing.

"Heat retention" is based on thermal mass -- that's why the PD has a boat load of SS washers around the heater. A dynamic heater doesn't need thermal mass -- based on my testing for the last 10 years.

If it isn't in fact heat retention the counterintuitive thing about it is that the only two observable, non-subjective functional changes between the two units are a (somewhat large) temperature drop in every setting on the SS units as well as a measurably shorter run time on the SS units.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

again, it is the efficiency of the PID algorithm (that's the mentioned sound) and the coefficients. Tuning the PID is trial and error -- the theory is only a suggestion of how to do it, not an actual implementation. They also may have just decided to reduce the setting values from the ceramic unit.

 

[MG23]

Sounds to me like they should've extended their field testing a little more.

Just a simple line of reasoning behind the heat retention theory. The heater kicks on very very often (think every 5 seconds or so), meaning a little bit of the battery is drained very very often, right? In that case wouldn't added thermal insulation completely surrounding the heat and the bowl of the unit itself lead to the heater kicking on slightly less often leading to somewhat less being drained from the battery over 9-14 12 minute cycles?

Just makes logical sense to me... I mean... there's gotta be some reason they put that ceramic on there in the first place and then continued producing it alongside the SS units for months.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i believe their comment about doing it for cosmetic reasons -- won't discolor with heat. and make the glass tube slide in easier, perhaps. however the extreme difference in thermal characteristics of the two materials would make the binding difficult (evidently).

i have the frequency of my PWM component set to 250 Hz (an audible tone below Middle C), so this component is deciding 250 times per second whether to activate the heater or not. And when maintaining a temperature of 381F the heater is on 7% of the time.

 

[MG23]

i believe their comment about doing it for cosmetic reasons -- won't discolor with heat. and make the glass tube slide in easier, perhaps. however the extreme difference in thermal characteristics of the two materials would make the binding difficult (evidently).

i have the frequency of my PWM component set to 250 Hz (an audible tone below Middle C), so this component is deciding 250 times per second whether to activate the heater or not. And when maintaining a temperature of 381F the heater is on 7% of the time.

I haven't seen any actual official comment from Arizer or an Arizer representative that the ceramic was only put on for cosmetic reasons. If I'm wrong please correct me, but the only official statement I've seen that resembled that was PIU's comment about chipping. "The issue is strictly cosmetic and does not affect the product". I think people have been randomly repeating this with their own spin on it, ala telephone game, as a lot of "information" on this thread has been.

It just simply makes no financial sense for Arizer to continue production of units with ceramic coating that is purely aesthetic alongside SS units when the ceramic chipping carries the very clear risk of multiplying their production overhead.

 

[vape4life]

From one vaper bro to another, don't question or ask if they lie..got me suspended. They said that the ONLY thing the ceramic was for was COSMETIC/AESTHETIC... they INSISTED on it. They applied this ceramic organically or it is organic in nature, because the steel underneath BLUES, which in fact does not, it is yellow more than anything.

They said there were NO differences other than the coating between units, which isn't the case. The SS temps aren't the same and the battery doesn't last nearly as long as the ceramic.

Why should you trust them? I don't anymore. However I still love both my solos until something better comes along and I can support a more upfront company (like vapexhale).

I'm curious why Arizer originally claimed it was one bad batch and is now discontinuing the ceramic models. If it was one bad batch this would not be the case. They designed it with ceramic for a reason, better heat retention. I am seriously trying to figure out what is going on because I don't want such a strong portable to just fall off my radar. It just needs improvements and probably a redesign, but they were really close IMO.

If it was one bad batch they wouldn't kill the ceramic model, yet here they are. I just don't know what to make of that. Did they lie before when they said it was a bad batch? If so why should I trust anything they say at all? I find it unsettling at best.

 

[MG23]

Please show me the official statement/email from Arizer or an Arizer representative that states the organic coating was purely for cosmetic/aesthetic reasons and not the PIU statement that chipping only effects the product cosmetically. These are two very different statements.

Vape4Life, you're actually the only person I have seen saying that Arizer stated that the ceramic coating was purely for looks prior to now and if that's the case you're helping to spread misinformation.

 

[steven22]

Ordered mine today, supposed to be a ceramic black M103, Ill confirm when it is in my hands.

crosses fingers


----

my extrme has an electrical hum, very very low volume buzz
and never bothered me.

 

[vape4life]

Dude. it's not misinformation, it's in the thread reposted from an email. Steve said he "insisted" on it being applied. Again, cosmetic only and doesn't affect functionality according to arizer anyway. Also stated was no differences other than that, but arizer tech kevin then indicated that the SS units were 5 degrees cooler (celcius).

Please show me the official statement/email from Arizer or an Arizer representative that states the organic coating was purely for cosmetic/aesthetic reasons and not the PIU statement that chipping only effects the product cosmetically. These are two very different statements.

You're actually the only person I have seen state Arizer saying that the ceramic coating was purely for looks prior to now and if that's the case you're helping to spread misinformation.

 

[MG23]

Dude. it's not misinformation, it's in the thread reposted from an email. Steve said he "insisted" on it being applied. Again, cosmetic only and doesn't affect functionality according to arizer anyway. Also stated was no differences other than that, but arizer tech kevin then indicated that the SS units were 5 degrees cooler (celcius).

Please show me the official statement/email from Arizer or an Arizer representative that states the organic coating was purely for cosmetic/aesthetic reasons and not the PIU statement that chipping only effects the product cosmetically. These are two very different statements.

You're actually the only person I have seen state Arizer saying that the ceramic coating was purely for looks prior to now and if that's the case you're helping to spread misinformation.

Again, I would really like proof of Arizer stating that the ceramic was purely a cosmetic addition and not just hearsay from you.

A link to said email would suffice.

 

[vape4life]

my arizer email wrote:


The chipping paint you mention is ceramic, it is chemically inert so there is zero risk to ingest it but still it's a disappointment. You're right it was done primarily for looks as the steel bowl underneath 'blues' over time with repetitive heating. Having it black just looks better. To get ceramic to adhere to steel is usually a potentially toxic undertaking because of the 'binding agents' used. They normally use a combination of silica's and glues. I wanted a black bowl and I wanted a ceramic coating applied "organically". My suggestion was to bake it on using no binding agents. I insisted on it.

It's possible to do this, our research found it's been done this way in parts of Europe since the early '90's.
It works great 'if' you bake the ceramic on for an exact length of time, to short or too long and you get either flaking or peeling. That's what's happening now. Some bowls could of been baked in an oven that wasn't preheated long enough, or left in for too long.

I wanted to give you a detailed explanation so you're not concerned. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience

Dude. it's not misinformation, it's in the thread reposted from an email. Steve said he "insisted" on it being applied. Again, cosmetic only and doesn't affect functionality according to arizer anyway. Also stated was no differences other than that, but arizer tech kevin then indicated that the SS units were 5 degrees cooler (celcius).

Please show me the official statement/email from Arizer or an Arizer representative that states the organic coating was purely for cosmetic/aesthetic reasons and not the PIU statement that chipping only effects the product cosmetically. These are two very different statements.

You're actually the only person I have seen state Arizer saying that the ceramic coating was purely for looks prior to now and if that's the case you're helping to spread misinformation.

Again, I would really like proof of Arizer stating that the ceramic was purely a cosmetic addition and not just hearsay from you.

A link to said email would suffice.

 

[MG23]

So to you the word primarily means absolute only?

Like I said... telephone game.

 

[vape4life]

Will you give it up for fuck sakes?

You're right it was done primarily for looks as the steel bowl underneath 'blues' over time with repetitive heating. Having it black just looks better. I insisted on it.

There are other emails if you read the entire thread which back up there were no other differences and that it was PRIMARILY for looks as he said. it wasn't PRIMARILY for heat retention.

So to you, the word primarily means single and only?

Like I said... telephone game.

 

[aesthyrian]

Vape4Life, you're actually the only person I have seen saying that Arizer stated that the ceramic coating was purely for looks prior to now and if that's the case you're helping to spread misinformation.

Well then you need to read a bit more closely since I have been saying it throughout this whole thread, as well as just recently a few pages back. It was the first question I had once the bowls began chipping, why waste money and time on an extra step that serves no purpose besides looks, when the rate of defect can be so high? I guess Arizer didn't have a good answer since now they are going pure SS.

 

[MG23]

Vape4Life, you're actually the only person I have seen saying that Arizer stated that the ceramic coating was purely for looks prior to now and if that's the case you're helping to spread misinformation.

Well then you need to read a bit more closely since I have been saying it throughout this whole thread, as well as just recently a few pages back. It was the first question I had once the bowls began chipping, why waste money and time on an extra step that serves no purpose besides looks, when the rate of defect can be so high? I guess Arizer didn't have a good answer since now they are going pure SS.

May we have a link to the official statement you got the information from then? If not you're also helping the spread of misinformation.

Will you give it up for fuck sakes?

You're right it was done primarily for looks as the steel bowl underneath 'blues' over time with repetitive heating. Having it black just looks better. I insisted on it.

There are other emails if you read the entire thread which back up there were no other differences and that it was PRIMARILY for looks as he said. it wasn't PRIMARILY for heat retention.

So to you, the word primarily means single and only?

Like I said... telephone game.

Okay, if you were Arizer sending out replacements that are different to the original unit would you be more likely to say the main difference is just aesthetic and doesn't really matter or admit the main difference is functional and gonna cost you about an hour of battery life compared to your old unit? Both are true, so you would likely give the reason that sounds better and reflects better on your company.

Not to mention that the response you got looks to be in regard to you suggesting the ceramic was purely cosmetic in your previous email. All they did was agree with you that aesthetics were a reason for the ceramic, nothing close to stating it was the only reason.

This is why your "proof" isn't enough proof for me and shouldn't be being spread as dead to rights fact, because it flat out isn't.

There is a lot of hearsay, personal (mis)conceptions, and other questionable-at-best information being passed off as fact in this thread and it's shining a terrible light onto an awesome product.

 

[steven22]

All I can say is that, yes, mistakes happen in companies, and it is great that the customer service is really good with replacements and such. I do wish arizer was more communicative and active in this thread. This is the only place on the internet that discusses the product in such detail. It would really make a difference if they would chime in often.

I remember when magicflight came in daily to respond to the MFLB thread during the initial stages. that went a long way with the creation of the wiki page which included many quotes of Magicflight answering most of the doubts anyone had.