GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
that means no taste is left? or otherwise? the cloud you posted is enormous
Anvil vs Vapcap Discussion
- Thread starter Planck
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seki
Well-Known Member
I don't consider the Anvil to taste "good" per se, and I definitely wouldn't put it up there among the best, but I also wouldn't consider it to be sub-par in the flavour department either. I own several ball vapes, RBT devices, both the Ti and XL Herborizers, and the Vapman and Vaponic are among my favourites for flavour. The Anvil will never be in the same discussion as any of these devices, but what flavour it does have was surprising to me especially given the long heat up time.
My theory is that the floating herb chamber and indirect heating play a not-insignificant role in preserving the flavour so I attempted to replicate it as best I could with a VapCap. Apologies for quoting myself, but I posted the video and a more detailed explanation of my technique over in the Dynavap thread:
So after that long-winded explanation, what I mean to say is that I found the flavour to be similar to the Anvil; not amazing, but surprisingly good for such a long heat up and if timed correctly, almost no toasted taste. This all depends on the state of your material and grind as well of course.Great idea! I think one of the overlooked innovations of the Anvil, or at least, overshadowed by the copper battery, is the "floating" herb chamber. I think the indirect heating plays a significant part in the performance of the device. To that end, I also started to experiment with my VapCap setup a few months ago to see if I could apply something similar to it. I settled on a configuration that consists of a cap that sits so loose, gravity will separate it from the tip when held upside down connected to an old 18mm Milaana short stem. I overheat until about 6-8 seconds after the click, but using this method, the click actually becomes sort of irrelevant.
In addition to the loose cap, I reasoned that the reduced surface contact with the tip would require a longer heat cycle so I decided to ignore the click completely and focus specifically on timing. After a bunch of testing, I've settled in at 16-18 seconds heating using a Pipes heater and this gives me a really thick, great tasting heat cycle that has a vapour production window of 20-25 seconds, which is more than enough to clear a bowl in one hit, or one and a small clean up hit as my ex-smokers lungs permit:
AVB comes out a touch lighter than coffee brown and the sessions can be very consistently replicated. I believe I can achieve something very close with most tip/cap combinations but the timing of the heat cycle may differ.
Using the Anvil gave me a different perspective on how I use my VCs. I had been slowly going down this path already, but the floating chamber sort of inspired me to try this. I find it works very well, is quite effective and very easy to replicate.
Apologies for the terrible phone pics, I have been too lazy to pull out my camera. AVB:
Just for reference, the volume of the Sphere in the video is pretty large at 1000ml I believe. For those unfamiliar, to give a better idea of the volume of vapour that was produced, here are some comparison pics:
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GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
It helps clearing the bowl too, the coughs do not exist anymore and I LOVE this technique!!! althought not 8 seconds, but 4, but it works so well!!! thanks a lot!
Ti tip, heating at Mid, totally floating cap, torch flame blue is not too close to the cap, it does work and it hits like a truck
slightly dark ABV but far from combustion...
the hits are unreal... never been so baked from a VapCap before....
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Farid
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of the reasons people associate convection with better flavor than conduction is because with many conduction devices the herb is exposed to heat for a long time before the inhale happens. Take a dab for example, it's heated via conduction, but the flavor is superb because it's not being heated for an extended period.
This is why I prefer a much looser pack in the vapcap, and a 360 spin instead of the rock back and fourth spin. A loose pack and full spin means that while the tip is being heated, the herb is being tossed around in the chamber, resulting in less direct contact with the tip's walls. I also prefer TI for this reason, as it heats faster. When the click happens I take a rip as soon as possible, so that I get that better flavor. The result is I can kill a bowl on the first heat cycle, and it's very evenly heated, no green section in the middle. The downside is a loose pack means you can't jam as much weed in there.
This is why I prefer a much looser pack in the vapcap, and a 360 spin instead of the rock back and fourth spin. A loose pack and full spin means that while the tip is being heated, the herb is being tossed around in the chamber, resulting in less direct contact with the tip's walls. I also prefer TI for this reason, as it heats faster. When the click happens I take a rip as soon as possible, so that I get that better flavor. The result is I can kill a bowl on the first heat cycle, and it's very evenly heated, no green section in the middle. The downside is a loose pack means you can't jam as much weed in there.
letter never sent
reckoner
I wouldn't turn to either vape if I wanted the best flavor, though they are both capable of decent taste. Dynavap can taste good on the first hit or two if you don't push it too far, but I've never had good flavor when I was trying to crush the bowl in one hit with a single flame torch. I'm finding it's possible to one hit the Anvil with a bit of a slower roast (40-45 sec) at the thermal battery and still get some decent flavor out of it. Full RTL hits taste bad to me so I avoid it now. Admittedly, I haven't spent much time doing lighter roasts with the Anvil so I probably haven't experienced the full flavor spectrum it has to offer.
As far as effects go, the Dynavap is not in the same ballpark as the Anvil for me. I've never had a Dynavap hit as potent as the Anvil even after using a Dynavap for years. I understand the nuances of Dynavap technique, but it simply cannot compete with the Anvil given its much lower mass and pure conduction design. One good hit from the Anvil can put me down for hours, similar to my heavier desktops like the CouchLog and VapBong. The quality and volume of the Anvil vapor is also much closer to those heavy desktops compared to the Dynavap.
The Dynavap still carries appeal in its minimal design/form factor, faster heatup and cooldown, large ecosystem, etc. But I don't expect to use my Dynavap very often now that the Anvil has arrived. 90% of my vaping is done at my desk, so the Anvil is really more of a desktop replacement for me.
As far as effects go, the Dynavap is not in the same ballpark as the Anvil for me. I've never had a Dynavap hit as potent as the Anvil even after using a Dynavap for years. I understand the nuances of Dynavap technique, but it simply cannot compete with the Anvil given its much lower mass and pure conduction design. One good hit from the Anvil can put me down for hours, similar to my heavier desktops like the CouchLog and VapBong. The quality and volume of the Anvil vapor is also much closer to those heavy desktops compared to the Dynavap.
The Dynavap still carries appeal in its minimal design/form factor, faster heatup and cooldown, large ecosystem, etc. But I don't expect to use my Dynavap very often now that the Anvil has arrived. 90% of my vaping is done at my desk, so the Anvil is really more of a desktop replacement for me.
whatitdew
Vapes R Great
Full bowl of flower with a phat dab of wax… 8 heat up cycle hits easy on the omnivap
Anvil crushes the same bowl in at the most two heat up cycles
I did this yesterday back to back.
its night and day difference for pure extraction, no “working on technique” needed. Heat cycle for heat cycle the Anvil slays.
you want terp hits then heat on the top band. Bada bing bada boom.
I bought the flowerpot B1 at the same time, hardly used it. Love the Anvil more. No cap.
with twax hits it’s bloody marvellous.
and I’m a OG Dyna fanboy who has had them all from the jump off. For me The Anvil is amazing, but I’m trying to get real baked over here lol.
still love the dynavap but man I jumped to team Anvil! Lol
Anvil crushes the same bowl in at the most two heat up cycles
I did this yesterday back to back.
its night and day difference for pure extraction, no “working on technique” needed. Heat cycle for heat cycle the Anvil slays.
you want terp hits then heat on the top band. Bada bing bada boom.
I bought the flowerpot B1 at the same time, hardly used it. Love the Anvil more. No cap.
with twax hits it’s bloody marvellous.
and I’m a OG Dyna fanboy who has had them all from the jump off. For me The Anvil is amazing, but I’m trying to get real baked over here lol.
still love the dynavap but man I jumped to team Anvil! Lol
Glorg
Well-Known Member
If the comparison is simply dyna to anvil there’s literally nothing the dyna does better imo, going back to using them is just disappointing. They are great vapes don’t get me wrong I just get better results in literally every way with an anvil, and people need to spend more time with lighter hits before trying to make some flavour claims. I spent years with dynas have inductions and simrells and all the jazz. But like I said if we add a elev8r or lotus to the conversation those are next tier flavour machines, im assuming the vapman could be in that list too but I haven’t used one to make any claims, it’s next on my vas list though so I’ll be back with that eventually.
Roffa
Well-Known Member
Well, I've got 2 M's and a Vong and then I bought the anvil and now they're gathering dust. I needed to work very hard to get substantial hits with dynavap and with the anvil all that's child play once you've fully taken on board how it achieves its effect. For me the lovely thing is that I can microdose and that I can pinpoint how much I want to bake the herb.
Same. the Anvil's signature is unique and very enjoyable.
coolbreeze
Well-Known Member
I agree here, totally, and I'm happy to find that the Anvil is much more manageable for me than I feared. In fact it wasn't until my big bowl arrived that I felt like I got a sufficient level of danger with my anvil. That said, I'm still enjoying my DVs every day and the Anvil fills a slightly different but also very enjoyable slot, so...
chlorophyll_man
AVB Inspector
Early days comparing the FMJ Dynavap tip with the Anvil.
Both will fully extract in one heat cycle to the extraction level of your choice very repeatably.
There's less torch time needed for the FMJ because it's achieving its full extraction mostly by conduction in my view. The Anvil requires more heat energy because it's using a larger proportion of convection in its full extraction. The vapour from the FMJ tastes relatively terpless compared to the Anvil, which I don't think is especially terpy itself (compared to glass heaters). I still see myself using a standard cap and a 2 heat cycle technique sometimes because I love that Dynavap terpiness on the first cycle of the 2.
I've put the FMJ on a Revolve stem and am more comfortable using it natively like that than the Anvil, which I always use dry or wet through glass. I'm thinking of the FMJ Revolve as an Anvil for out of the house.
I am not enjoying removing the hot FMJ caps Vs removing the hot Anvil chamber.
Overall it's a classier experience Anvil over FMJ vapour and usability wise (a refined product Vs an inexpesive hack) , i suppose the FMJ does it a bit quicker but at the expense of flavour basically.
Im going to keep using the FMJ solely for a few weeks to see how my results develop, it's nice to not have glass lying around needing cleaning etc!
eyess too blurry from tests too may bypos, night
Both will fully extract in one heat cycle to the extraction level of your choice very repeatably.
There's less torch time needed for the FMJ because it's achieving its full extraction mostly by conduction in my view. The Anvil requires more heat energy because it's using a larger proportion of convection in its full extraction. The vapour from the FMJ tastes relatively terpless compared to the Anvil, which I don't think is especially terpy itself (compared to glass heaters). I still see myself using a standard cap and a 2 heat cycle technique sometimes because I love that Dynavap terpiness on the first cycle of the 2.
I've put the FMJ on a Revolve stem and am more comfortable using it natively like that than the Anvil, which I always use dry or wet through glass. I'm thinking of the FMJ Revolve as an Anvil for out of the house.
I am not enjoying removing the hot FMJ caps Vs removing the hot Anvil chamber.
Overall it's a classier experience Anvil over FMJ vapour and usability wise (a refined product Vs an inexpesive hack) , i suppose the FMJ does it a bit quicker but at the expense of flavour basically.
Im going to keep using the FMJ solely for a few weeks to see how my results develop, it's nice to not have glass lying around needing cleaning etc!
eyess too blurry from tests too may bypos, night
Farid
Well-Known Member
Not saying you're wrong, but an alternate explanation for this is that the Anvil requires more torch time because you're heating a larger heat sink, and you're heating the herb chamber more directly with the FMJ. Convection isn't the only explanation for this difference in heat up time, but it's certainly possible
GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
the Anvil is mostly conduction, but in a clever way. I really liked the science behind it. see page 5 here please:
the r1 material is Ti, right? low conductivity value (K) of like 7~
the r2 material or the r3 is copper, which the K value is 401
it's exactly how it is described in 'fourier law' but more air enters the chamber, I agree that it has some of convection too... but not really too much (I think)
but the whole idea is to keep the device warm from the outside, a lot of free electrons, copper.... and in the core, where the herb sits - the material must be less conductive, so the flavours will not be oxidized too much
And yeah, the Anvil hits. and brings good flavour. I liked it. Most clever conduction device I've ever tried.
My_50p_worth
Well-Known Member
Does anyone else find the DV kicks the Anvil’s ass when it comes to vaping hash by itself? The hash we have here is the solid kind and not the squidgy kind, although that also comes around every now and then
I’m assuming it’s a conduction/convection thing as the Vapman is similarly skilled with hash extraction
I’m assuming it’s a conduction/convection thing as the Vapman is similarly skilled with hash extraction
coolbreeze
Well-Known Member
Man, i want some hash...
GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
it's a low THC one if it's solid.... it's almost like a bud... 30-40 % THC max or so.....Oily hash isn't solid
chlorophyll_man
AVB Inspector
I did find the same, though I didn't really push the Anvil beyond clicks (which I did with the Dynavap). I think you're right about conduction being the difference.
My_50p_worth
Well-Known Member
I hope you realise how good you have it, being able to call that low THC
@coolbreeze oh man don’t worry, I’m loading a Vapman bowl of some fine pollen and thinking of your plight!
GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
yeah, once I realized that I never take solid hashI hope you realise how good you have it, being able to call that low THC
@coolbreeze oh man don’t worry, I’m loading a Vapman bowl of some fine pollen and thinking of your plight!
but It has been long time since I've got something good, too expensive...
My_50p_worth
Well-Known Member
Eh, solid hash has its own charm outside of the THC content.. beautiful flavour for oneyeah, once I realized that I never take solid hash
but It has been long time since I've got something good, too expensive...
Hash here is slowly creeping in price too. I remember getting a Z for £80 back in the day, now it’s close to flower prices
Received my FMJ and a captive tip in the mail today. I would say it’s a good enhancement to the Vapcap but I prefer just about everything about the Anvil better (even all the parts that Troy seelms to find daunting). For the price the FMJ is a no-brainer for anyone who already owns Dynavap(s).
Ganjora
Well-Known Member
Since i got my anvil i have used my dynavaps on a couple of occassions.
I keep one in my motorcyle jacket for when i am out and about.
I have another which is for car use.
The dynavap is easy to use and loses its heat fairly quickly, perfect for portability and use in less than ideal circumstances.
The anvil is almost like a desktop - i would never dream of using it while driving. Too hot, too fiddly to load (while driving), and does not cool quick enough to not be a problem.
The dynavap kills the anvil as a portable vape, and the anvil kills the dynavap as a desktop.
I think, if you're into butane vapes, you really should have both.
I keep one in my motorcyle jacket for when i am out and about.
I have another which is for car use.
The dynavap is easy to use and loses its heat fairly quickly, perfect for portability and use in less than ideal circumstances.
The anvil is almost like a desktop - i would never dream of using it while driving. Too hot, too fiddly to load (while driving), and does not cool quick enough to not be a problem.
The dynavap kills the anvil as a portable vape, and the anvil kills the dynavap as a desktop.
I think, if you're into butane vapes, you really should have both.
My_50p_worth
Well-Known Member
Honestly I’m finding it hard to justify the existence of my DV as time passes, where you still use your DV I’ve found my Vapman to work even better
Might just go minimalist and stay on an Anvil/Vapman setup - between those two all of my needs are catered for