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WTF Is Wrong With America And Gun Control?

Discussion in 'The Vapor Lounge' started by CarolKing, Jul 11, 2015.

  1. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    up on a mountain
    *Three of the below quotes are Mz. King; picked because they are well written and an example of views held by a number of people. I actually agree more than disagree with her in general on this topic.


    Actually our country IS filled with crazy, stoopid people. :( Remember 1/2 of everyone you meet is below average in intelligence. The entire world is full of crazy, stupid, fraked up people.

    As decided by whom? As in any and all persons that seek help from a councilor or therapist?

    We will just have to agree to disagree on that one, lol. I'm Xmilitary and have never looked forward to putting a bullet into anyone. As a civilian Iv taken risks to talk my way out of things rather than simply (legally) kill someone before. I'm now older, disabled, and caring for my parents. My 12 gauge is for home protection and your disapproval of such maters not a whit. :rolleyes: (to me). I have used it in a non firing way agains an armed home intruder in the past. Having written all of that I can't disagree about a certain group with the mind set you write of.


    So you are not OK with that but anyone with "mental health" issues should be banned from firearm ownership? How about people that suffer from mental symptoms as a direct result of of physical ailment like depression due to menopause or thyroid disorders? Not intended as snarkyness by the way.

    Very true. And unless and until we are willing, as a society, to address a bunch of basic and underlying issues? Our violence issues are not going away. Institutionalized child mistreatment, Implicit racial and religious bias, etc..
     
  2. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

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    Can you stop a Clever Crazy? If someone is hellbent on mass murder, there are many ways to go.
     
  3. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

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  4. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    up on a mountain
    That is why the Secret Service is so freaky OCD and dialed in. the old truism about an assassination: A smart, dedicated, patient person that is willing to ignore the "...and then escape." part of the plan is incredibly hard to stop.

    There are a couple of very effective methods that have not yet been explored by modern crazy-clevers and I won't mention them here. But simply from a vehicular homicide POV; what if this guy had used a tractor trailer with a full trailer rather than guns?


    It also doesn't help at all when people use emotionally charged, incorrect terminology. It helps even less when they pass laws altering or incorrectly defining a term. From a military perspective an Assault Rifle is one capable of both single shot and fully automatic fire. Under current gun laws it is a cosmetic term. It helps even less, IMO, when people double down on the term, more interested in "being right" than effecting change. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-a-scaletta/ar15s-are-basically-assau_b_10469112.html

    More crazy with semantics: How is an AR-15 equipped with a bump stock NOT an automatic weapon? It is a weapon with autofire capabilities but NOT an automatic weapon as defined by law. :mental:
     
  5. grokit

    grokit well-worn member

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    Location:
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    Also known as confirmation bias :tup:

    Some interesting stats in there...
    • New York has 8.3 million residents. It is likely to have 335 murders this year.
    • In 2011, Austria, with 8.4 million residents, had 71 murders.
    • Switzerland has 7.9 million residents and 46 murders.
    • The Netherlands, with 16.7 million people - more than twice the population of New York City - had less than half the number of murders (144) in a year.
    • Or, put differently, if New York had the same murder rate (0.8) as Germany, Austria, and Spain, there would have been only 67 murders this year - slightly more than one each week.
    • Toronto -- a city of 2.8 million residents -- had 55 murders in 2012, a rate of 1.9 per 100,000 people. That year Chicago, a city with a similar population size, had 506 murders. Detroit, a city of 701,475 people just across the river from Toronto, recorded 411 homicides last year. Chicago's murder rate was almost 10 times larger than Toronto; Detroit's was about 28 times greater. Detroiters and Chicagoans are so used to the epidemic of killings that they often go unreported in the local media. In Toronto, almost every murder is a front-page story and a topic of public soul-searching.

    :hmm::bang:
    :myday:
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
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  6. TboneToker

    TboneToker Medical Enthusiast

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    551
    There is nothing wrong with it, if people couldn't use guns they would use other things.
     
  7. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
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  8. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

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    2,144
    Another brick in the wall! :bang:
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
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  9. GetLeft

    GetLeft Well-Known Member

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  10. dapperdopamine

    dapperdopamine Active Member

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    What exactly makes prohibition a viable options with guns, it clearly isnt with cannabis or any other drug. I dont thinking owning a firearm or wanting to own a firearm should be a crime, Im reticent to give the state, which has been witholding what lots of you use as incredibly effective medecine just because it doesnt agree with their ideology, So knowing this, why would you willingly give them more power. The US is also awash with firearms, not just because theyre legal, but because we have a huge gun culture, its stupid to think they would just dissapear. Also something a lot of people don't actually seem to grasp is the second amendment doesnt exist to protect yourself from individuals, it exists to protect from a tyrannical government.
    Feel free to disagree or tell me otherwise, im quite open minded and would love to get some alternative viewpoints.
     
  11. vapirtoo

    vapirtoo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    NYC
    America is or was founded on the gun. Firearms are deeply engrained in our cultural norms as is racism and sexual abuse.
    Our culture is glacially moving to a more loving space which might take many decades. In the meantime these open debates help to speed up the process.
     
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  12. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    17,599
    Location:
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    Interesting grouping. Some would group it with Freedom of Worship, the Press or Public Speech? Or 'Due Process' protections? Constitutional Rights?

    I get the view "America is or was founded on the gun", and to an extent support it, I just don't agree fully. IMO it was founded by a group that were willing to defend their beliefs against a foreign force with the best tools available to them. Seriously. With their 'lives and fortunes' for what they saw is the collective good. Many call them Patriots. Guns were just the tools, guns had been there before (and after), the foundation was ideas. The basis of the Republic is found on 'paper', not iron.

    I agree, discussion can often help. So does experience? For the fun of discussion, let me ask a question?

    Does Chicago have such restrictive gun laws because it's such a dangerous place or the other way about?

    I'll take the con side, such laws have restricted at least some honest citizens from protecting their families this way but haven't discouraged the guys in black hats that were planning on breaking laws anyway. If anything encouraged them? Anyway, I think an argument could be made that yet more restrictive laws would make it worse, not better, for the citizens?

    There's a fun German saying, "Foxes prefer rabbits with no claws", I'm told.

    FWIW, I'm not sure the two are directly related, but I think most of us assume they are? I'm wondering which 'polarity' is going on, for sure opinions before the question factor highly as well.

    Scale is perhaps also worth considering. We're what, 3 times more likely to be killed by Opiates than guns (if we subtract suicides)? Or more likely to be killed by a 'distracted driver', over half of which are using their cell phones at the fatal moment, than murdered by gun.

    Anyway, I was curious how folks see cause/effect WRT gun laws in Chicago and crime? TIA

    Regards to all.

    OF
     
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  13. cybrguy

    cybrguy Patience Rewards

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    4,784
    In your dreams, maybe. Personally I think it is circling the drain. We WERE moving in that direction, but not anymore.

    This is probably not a good thread for me. I had 1100 posts in the politics thread before it spontaneously combusted. I think I'll go back to hanging in vape threads...
     
  14. vapirtoo

    vapirtoo Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    NYC
    Gun prohibition like drug prohibition is not the answer. Yes guns are tools for sure, but all tools come with responsibility.
    More people may die on the roads, but we will not ban cars or toughen our licensing process
     
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  15. cybrguy

    cybrguy Patience Rewards

    Messages:
    4,784
    The purpose of a car is not to kill people. If you kill someone with your car you are using it incorrectly and not as intended. That is why it's called an accident.

    If you kill someone with a gun you are doing what it is designed to do. The manufacturer goes out of his way to increase the lethality of a gun. There is NO OTHER PURPOSE for a gun other than to kill something, whether human or not. Target practice is called practice for a reason.

    Comparing car deaths and gun deaths is meaningless. The only thing they have in common is someone is dead. And we do everything we can to make cars LESS lethal and to reduce the likelihood that someone will be injured in or by one. We have LAWS that REQUIRE manufacturers to make cars as safe as possible.

    Efforts to make guns safer are blocked regularly and effectively by gun manufacturers, lobbies and the NRA. Smart guns can get NO traction and are actively prevented from being manufactured. A store owner who thought they might be a good idea and offered to carry them was practically put out of business and forced to recant. States have made laws AGAINST BUY BACKS AND EFFORTS TO DESTROY GUNS COLLECTED.

    See, not a good place for me. I really am gone now.
     
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  16. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    800
    There are plenty of other purposes for a firearm. In most cases, only the criminal's purpose is to kill someone/thing. (Small exception for sharpshooters in the line of duty.)

    A better description of purpose for a firearm might be to STOP someone.
     
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  17. dapperdopamine

    dapperdopamine Active Member

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    I mean competetive shooting and marksmanship still exists, bows and arrows are also meant to kill, should we just ban anyone from having ranged weapons, I just cant see why you would want the same people that only a couple decades ago were kicking down your doors for a plant, to be the only ones with firearms. Is it not true that those who seek power are unfit to rule? Why would I give someone else more leverage over my life, I cant see the logic in it. Violent crime happens in lots of places with or without guns, guns are just another tool humans have used to kill. man can fashion a weapon out of anything, its why we prospered initially because of tools. tools can be used for good and for bad.
     
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