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WTF Is Wrong With America And Gun Control?

Discussion in 'ABV' started by CarolKing, Jul 11, 2015.

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  1. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

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    Indeed.


    Let's say I was a responsible, safe driver. I want to drive 90 wherever I'm going. I get that there are other drivers who aren't as competent as me. But why should MY right to get where I'm going as fast as I can be infrigned upon because others can't handle their shit?


    I understand that driving isn't a Constitutionally protected freedom. But that's because the Founders could no more imagine a Honda than they could an AR-15.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
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  2. Helios

    Helios Well-Known Member

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    Very loaded questions indeed,:\ I don't know if I can delve into this without going down a deep black hole ending in a pit of vipers. however perhaps I can suggest we all Re-watch and study the film "last of the Mohicans"
    or we can revisit lessons learned by the 18th Century German Auxiliaries, King George III to further understand the importance of civil self defense.:sherlock:
     
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  3. analytika

    analytika Well-Known Member

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    The smoothbore musket fired approximately 80 caliber ball ammo accurate to about 100 yards. The rifle musket fired approximately 50 Calibre ball ammo accurate up to about 400 yards. The AR-15 fires significant smaller rounds than either -- the 223 is just north of 22 Calibre -- accurate to about 600 yards.

    We're talking centuries, that's incremental not evolutionary progress.

    The founders of course fully anticipated the internet, otherwise sensible regulation to protect the public from dangerous information would limit the first amendment to hand cranked printing presses and speaking with feet firmly planted on an 18th century soapbox.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
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  4. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    Some stores have announced they will not be selling long guns to people younger than 21. Can they do that?

    As to the 2nd amendment, I don't see why not. If a private retailer does not want to sell to people under 21, or 40 for that matter, I see no Constitutional violation as it is not Congress making a law. (Or, the states. I believe the McDonald v. Chicago case incorporated the amendment. [Made it apply to the states under the 14th due process clause.])

    However, many states have greater protections for civil rights--including the right to not be discriminated against in public accommodation because of age.

    http://www.ncsl.org/research/civil-and-criminal-justice/state-public-accommodation-laws.aspx

    In those states, stores that try to put in the policy will, probably, be sued for violation of civil rights. Those who support gun rights will send in a person under 21 who is legally able to buy a weapon to the stores, that person gets denied, thus creating standing to sue.

    I wonder how the courts will bake THIS cake.
     
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  5. lazylathe

    lazylathe Almost there...

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    @Helios

    How many Mohicans are left? Who eradicated them like vermin?
    What weapons were used to basically mow them down in that era?

    That's a loaded question...
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
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  6. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    We at DICK'S Sporting Goods are deeply disturbed and saddened by the tragic events in Parkland. Our thoughts and prayers are with all of the victims and their loved ones.

    But thoughts and prayers are not enough. We have to help solve the problem that's in front of us. Gun violence is an epidemic that's taking the lives of too many people, including the brightest hope for the future of America - our kids.

    We deeply believe that this country's most precious gift is our children...

    See More

    Looks like Walmart and Fred Meyers is doing the same. The people and merchants of America are doing what the senate and congress doesn’t have the balls to do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  7. Helios

    Helios Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    @CarolKing, I Agree with you about the Children being our most precious gift, however this is larger issue one where many elements comprised together forming the perfect storm, we cannot simply go after the causes without examining the symptoms as well.
    Curious how Walmart is the biggest pharmacy in the Nation, continue to sell out prescription drugs like candy. What is the age restriction on this in most states?
    18 year olds can learn to train to kill, go to war overseas and kill for Greedy multinational interests, and can't buy a rifle upon returning back home?
    A disturbing number of perpetrators of school shootings and similar mass murders in our modern era were either on – or just recently coming off of – psychiatric medications. A few of the most high-profile examples, out of many others linked below.
    http://realfarmacy.com/florida-shooting/
     
  8. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    @Helios i agree with you it is a bigger problem than just the availability to get the guns. Something is better than nothing. Working towards a solution is just the beginning. Prescription drugs is another subject entirely and a very important one.
     
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  9. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

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    That's a tall claim. That the Founders anticipated modern weaponry. Even in 2018, we have no clue what weaponry will look like in 300 years. I think that's a stretch.

    But you bring up the First Amendment. We do limit your First Amendment rights if what you are saying causes immediate danger to others. There's no reason we can't limit the Second Amendment to create something closer to a well regulated militia.
     
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  10. analytika

    analytika Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    San Francisco, California
    Yeah, I mean, what evidence do we have that they were forward thinkers who incorporated lasting, adaptive, flexible ideas into their design?

    The Constitution is a natural rights document. It did not seek to grant rights, but simply to recognize the inalienable rights of free men. The 2nd Amendment didn't create a right to keep and bear arms, that right is inherent and inalienable. The bill of rights is a partial enumeration of rights, which the Founders explicitly said they included with no intention to disparage or diminish other rights retained by the people.

    Technological progress in rifles and handguns -- which again has been incremental not revolutionary -- cannot alienate that which is inalienable.

    The idea that the government has the power, let alone the responsibility, to decide who should be armed, with what weapon, in what situations, is utterly abhorrent to the philosophy of the Founders. It's a perversion of the American experiment, badly polluted by positive rights thinking and the rise of far left radicalism. The modern left finds an armed populace threatening to its conception of governmental supremacy, and its "enlightened" plans for the people and the economy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  11. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

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    No. What evidence do you have that the Founders conceived of automatic weapons or Hondas. That's the tall claim I find dubious.

    It is? A mentally ill sociopath has the inherent right to own semi automatic rifles? How about a wife beater? Or let's take a healthy, sane person. Do they have an inherent and inalienable right to park at Tank or F-15 in their driveway? After all they will need such weapons to provide an effective check against a well armed tyrannical government. Of course, the Founders couldn't imagine a world with heavier-than-air flight.

    We literally do that now, and it isn't abhorrent. It's perfectly rational. Like I said, you can't buy an F-15. You can't strap a fully automatic machine gun to your back and go to Wal-Mart.

    That whole statement sounds nuts to me, sorry to say. First of all, no one wants to "disarm the populace". This is a nonsense NRA talking point. The most evil Dem politician only supports SOME increased gun control, not disbanding the Second Amendment. The absolute worst I've heard from ""leftist" politicians is a semi-auto ban. Not a ban on all handguns, rifles, shotguns.

    And what are you talking about with "threatening government supremacy"? No one backs gun-control measures to "ensure governmental superiority". They back them because they are tired of seeing a dozen plus school children ended in a few minutes, several times per year. They find the fact that America is the only civilized nation that deals with this... embarrassing.

    And I hate to break it to you... even if we provide easy access to Semi-autos... the Government is Already Superior! As I said, they've already decided you can't own the weaponry that would provide an effective check on their power.

    We've already decided to limit what arms the populace can carry. Now we're just arguing over degrees.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  12. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v4.0a (unstable) Staff Member

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