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What do Californians (and the rest) think of AUMA?

Discussion in 'Cannabis News and Activism' started by Magic9, Mar 25, 2016.

  1. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    2,944
    Location:
    Colliefornia
    They never allowed it before, didn't seem to stop anybody there from using it. Cannabis is seriously the LEAST one ones worries at a festival like coachella where people are mixing cocaine with LSD with MDMA with methamphetamine with adderall with codeine with percocets with God knows what the fuck else.
     
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  2. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,461
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    OldNewbie likes this.
  3. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,461
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    grokit and OldNewbie like this.
  4. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,358
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  5. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,461
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
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  6. TwistedGray

    TwistedGray Well-Known Member

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    463
    Super cool, a new shop opened up down the street and are offering an amazing price on 8ths ... only ... $60 ...
     
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  7. Silver420Surfer

    Silver420Surfer Well-Known Member

    Saw a post on The Cannabist where someone posted his recreational receipt online. One ounce...total cost with tax...$587:rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant:

    Phuck that
     
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  8. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    3,797
    ....................................................................................
    Very unfortunate that all levels of govt have to dive in and tax it to the max !
    And then they wonder why the black market thrives.

    I've only seen a couple reasonable places where they said their aim was for minimal taxes so black market
    is no longer price leader
     
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  9. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,461
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    Remember, this is just the beginning. Shortages occurred in Washington State at first, too, and now prices are pretty good. See here.
     
  10. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    409
    I can't find the chart right now, but if i'm recalling correctly average prices fell precipitously by the end of the first year of legal recreational weed in Washington State. Fingers crossed that trend carries over to California. The taxes are similar in both States. Cannabis isn't exactly a rare resource. It's called "weed" for a reason.
     
  11. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,358
    The market will win.

    If the tax on legal equals the risk in illegal sales, then price will not be a factor in consumer's decisions. If more, then there is a downward pressure on legal prices; and, if less then there is an upward pressure on legal prices. The reverse is true for illegal prices if we assume demand will stay the same between legal and illegal.

    Right now the tax percentage is pulled from the dreams of legislators who want to raise as much money for their pet projects as painlessly as possible. Over time, the tax will reflect the reality there is a "black" market infrastructure out there already and regulators are playing catch-up.

    Another issue to raise prices has to do with the fact weed is not weed is not weed. Not only from a quality perspective, but also from a status perspective. Some weed is legally grown by licensed growers. That is the product that hits the legal market. Non-licensed growers' crops are not supposed to hit the legal market. Legal prices are up because "legal weed" is less than the entire cannabis crop and when we think of the supply portion of supply/demand, we are actually talking about different things--depending on the reason we are considering it at all.
     
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  12. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    409
    I originally scoffed at the total 34% tax in California. And I still think it is unfairly punishing marijuana over booze. But eventually they will be getting 34% of very little. Here is what happened to the total price of Weed in highly taxed Washington:

    [​IMG]

    I don't think the black market will ever go away. But eventually supply will drive the Cali cost down. Or at least I hope so.

    At some point, weed should cost the same as tomatoes. Maybe the Nanny State folks are slapping taxes on so I can't buy an ounce for $20 in the future.
     
  13. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,358
    Not yet, but someday. First they taxed cigarettes in order to make money. Then they started taxing, not just for the money, but to discourage use. It is only a swing of the pendulum away.
     
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  14. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    409
    Yeah that's what I'm thinking. They slapped 34% taxes on it so when wholesale prices drop to $1 a gram or less, it will still be relatively "expensive".

    And yes, they did that with cigarettes. But that's why they should govern based on evidence. Tobacco absolutely causes a range of serious health problems, particularly in old age when citizens are on Medicare. That ends up costing us ALL money.

    So I don't have a strong opposition to taxing a vice that eventually costs ALL taxpayers. But long term studies show the worst health effect of smoking weed is gingivitis (stoners forget to brush their teeth?).

    Given that, I don't see a rationale behind punitively punishing marijuana consumers.
     
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  15. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,358
    [​IMG]
     
  16. syrupy

    syrupy Authorized Buyer

    Messages:
    2,497
    Product Price
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Skywalker OG (2g) $20.00
    Premium Nug Run (2g) $45.00
    Small Nug Run (4g) $60.00
    CBD Isolate (1g) $30.00
    Exit Bag $1.00

    Subtotal ........ $ 156.00
    NRP 1% $ .96
    City 4% $6.24
    Excise 15% $14.25
    State 8.25% $12.87
    (Tax Total $34.32)
    Total: $190.32
     
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  17. Silver420Surfer

    Silver420Surfer Well-Known Member

    Kind of funny thought.
    For years "things" have been coming out of California going all over the US, pretty low prices. I wonder know how many "things" may find themselves now coming into Cali from elsewhere due to these crazy high prices.
    I can see the headlines now.

    "Elderly couple found with 60 pounds of marijuana during traffic stop
    YORK, Neb.
    The couple said they were from Clearlake Oaks California and were headed back from Las Vegas, were they bought "Christmas presents" for their friends."

    :rofl:
     
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  18. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,358
    Cannabis is hitting peak stupid. At a "shark tank"-type of event in CA, one inventor got his investment.

    http://www.thecannifornian.com/cann...estments-shark-tank-style-forum-santa-monica/

    What was this genius entrepreneur's invention? Um...
    But the 28-year-old founder of ARC Innovations was unfazed. Wearing his trademark jeans and flannel shirt, he joked about the problem before seamlessly launching into a pitch for what may just be the world’s first electric pipe.
    Now, I could joke about how many 28-year-olds can be considered to have a "trademark" look, but would rather focus on the great invention--an electric pipe.

    What is it?

    https://arcpipes.com/product/arc/

    It is a future product where there is a (cool looking) pipe with a rechargeable electronic lighter integrated. 30 whole "sessions" on a charge!

    [​IMG]


    It's better than this because, 'lectricity. (And a claim of the above having a full stainless steel *smoke* path.)
    [​IMG]

    The reason I say the market is hitting peak stupid is not that someone came up with the purported "first" electric pipe (Totally false. My buddy and I made one 40 years ago. We hooked up a line surrounding the bowl that we could short to light it in a pipe that was like the following--except our glass was red colored.), but that the idea was considered one of the best one's at the event.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,358
    Licensed is complaining because unlicensed (Aka the black market [que spooky music]) is really driving down prices and wants law enforcement to step up. When the new CHP chief was asked about some illegally transporting cannabis on the highway, he said, "We're always concerned about illegal drugs on our roadways and in the communities we serve,"..."We do everything we can to help other law enforcement agencies with that and do what we can to get [drugs] out of our community."

    https://www.pressreader.com/usa/los-angeles-times/20180217/281767039696767

    In CA, the law he is supposed to enforce, cannabis is NOT an "illegal drug" even if unlicensed transportation of large amounts is illegal. Also, his job is NOT to see what he can do to get [drugs] out of the community, but to enforce the law. Nothing in the law is designed to get cannabis out of the community.

    It's going to be a while before all the wheels are spinning in the same direction. Be careful out there.
     
  20. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    2,944
    Location:
    Colliefornia
    That's what they want folks to believe but I see climbing retail prices + excessively high taxes causing people to skip the clubs and go back to calling their buddy. Not to mention with so many big name brands failing for pesticides last year, many people don't feel safer or reassured any longer using the collectives. People were cool with the higher prices under the guise that everything was clean and "lab tested" but with that not being so certain, there's little reason to visit a collective.

    Also it's hilarious that it's legal to grow the plant, but selling it is considered black market goods? It's like saying farmers market tomatoes are the "black market" version of what the grocery store sells.
     
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  21. asdf420

    asdf420 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    268
    They want that control.. because they want that delicious tax money.
    now, why couldn't they make it much easier to sell, even with high taxes? they want some sort of security theater? Like the TSA? They're insane and power tripping? I dunno why they love red tape and worthless/inefficient regulations so much

    but.. they're drugs! we gotta.. keep them under control, or.. think of the children!
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
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  22. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,461
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    California’s cannabis growers are still staying in the shadows

    More than a month after California's regulation of marijuana began, only a small number of the tens of thousands of cannabis businesses have joined the system — threatening the state's shift to a regulated market and the promise of a billion-dollar tax windfall.

    Less than 1 percent of the state's 68,120 cannabis growers have been licensed, according to a report published Monday by the California Growers Association, the state's largest association of cannabis businesses.

    Growers can't meet the cost of complying with regulations, or are prohibited from growing because of local land-use policies, the report says.
     
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  23. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,358
    Here come the tax police.

    https://mjbizdaily.com/california-initiates-enforcement-unlicensed-marijuana-businesses/

    Less than two months after California’s legal cannabis industry launched on New Year’s Day, state officials are starting to target hundreds of marijuana companies that are operating illegally without a license.

    The state’s Bureau of Cannabis Control has sent out about 500 cease-and-desist letters to companies that are doing business but haven’t begun the application process, an agency spokesman told Marijuana Business Daily.

    “Just this past week we went from going to licensed operators to do compliance checks to now sending out cease-and-desist letters to the unlicensed operators that we’re finding advertised on different platforms,” said Alex Traverso, chief of communications for the bureau.

    “That’s the first step. We’re getting those letters out, and we will follow up relatively soon on the next step, which is not yet available for me to relay.”...
    The best part was at the end:
    However, he added, state lawmakers have made it clear to the bureau “they want to see enforcement.”

    “They don’t want the licensed folks to be adversely affected by the illegal market,” Traverso said.​

    The police are protecting the licensed folks, not us.
     
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  24. Gozer

    Gozer 710 snob

    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    SoCal
    Since the beginning of the year the tax issue has left a bad taste in my mouth. Every time I go to a dispensary, I leave feeling like I got a kick to the gut as I walked out the door. I notice people in the parking lot with dissatisfied WTF looks on their faces.

    This is intolerable, I see myself refusing to medicate rather than support this. I'm also not going to the dude down the street to smoke his flowers. I want my Heavy Hitters, Brass Knuckles, Alpine pre-filled carts, shatters and waxes at last years prices without taxes.
    The answer for me lies within the cannabis grey market. Now I can weather the storm as I wait for retail prices to drop, if they ever will.

    Pot has always been counter culture. The changing face of cannabis in CA doesn't change those origins, and as Californians, cutting against the grain is second nature.
     
  25. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,358
    I agree. The "gray" market is the real measure of the proper price as it takes into account the legal risk of the seller. The regulatory "legalization" path in CA will fail if the state continues to believe they can take that gray market price and then add on taxes and everyone is just going to go along with it. For some reason, they believe they can arrest their way to a monopoly.

    The fight is not over just because you can buy some legally.
     

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