1. What does SSTB mean? See our glossary of acronyms.
    Dismiss Notice

What do Californians (and the rest) think of AUMA?

Discussion in 'Cannabis News and Activism' started by Magic9, Mar 25, 2016.

  1. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,658
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    In WA State it cost $100.00 to buy a vape cartridge in the rec market while a similar cartridge cost $30 in the med market in the 1st months of legalization, mostly due to the taxes at the beginning. The holdup in Cali, as I understand it, few growers are licensed: is it costs a lot to enter the market for growers, and many current growers are in prohibited grow areas.

    I believe time will stabilize the cannabis market in California. Might take a year or two. But my god, whoever thought cannabis would be legal? Never in my 51 years of usage did I dream! We have come a long ways. Are we there yet? No, but have a few hits for the journey, in the meantime.
     
    OldNewbie and grampa_herb like this.
  2. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    The guy who, literally, wrote the book on defending DUI's has a blog where he focuses on the law in CA. (Where he practices.)

    http://www.duiblog.com/drivers-21-lose-license-year-dui-marijuana/

    Drivers Under 21 Could Lose License for a Year for DUI of Marijuana
    Posted by Jon Ibanez on February 26th, 2018
    A new California bill could see drivers under the age of 21 lose their driver’s license for a year if they are caught behind the wheel with marijuana in their system.

    State Senator Jerry Hill (D-San Mateo), who has been behind several DUI-related bills, proposed the law so that the state would have the same “zero tolerance” policy for marijuana as it does for alcohol when the driver is under the age of 21.

    California’s current “zero tolerance” law, under Vehicle Code section 23136, prohibits drivers under the age of 21 from having any alcohol in their systems. If a driver under the age of 21 tests positive for any alcohol in their system, their driver’s license will be suspended for one year through the DMV, but the matter is not considered criminal. Drivers under the age of 21 who have a blood alcohol content of 0.05 percent or higher, however, can be charged with Vehicle Code section 23140 which is an infraction with a $100 fine, a possible alcohol education class, and the one-year suspension through the DMV. Lastly, a driver under the age of 21 can also be charged with the standard DUI charges under Vehicle Code section 23152 that adults face when they are driving under the influence.

    “This bill will save lives by making it illegal for drivers under age 21 to drive under the influence of marijuana, just like current law for alcohol,” Hill said in a statement.

    It should be made clear, notwithstanding Hill’s statement, that the law would target the presence of marijuana in the driver’s system, not whether the underage driver was “under the influence” of marijuana.

    Currently, there is no reliable way to determine exactly how intoxicated or under the influence someone is as a result of marijuana ingestion even though the psychoactive component of marijuana (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol or “THC”) might be present in a person system. A person could have smoked marijuana weeks ago and, while the intoxicating effects have long since passed, the THC may still be detectable in the person’s blood.

    Hill foresees law enforcement officers being able to use oral swabs to determine if marijuana has been consumed recently. Although, local law enforcement has experimented with such devices recently, the LA Times reported that no such product has yet been approved for use by California law enforcement agencies.

    “We don’t have a device in the field to measure impairment of cannabis,” Richard Desmond, an assistant chief for the California Highway Patrol, told legislators this week.

    “[The bill] will do nothing to make the roads safer, nor to reduce youth drug abuse,” Dale Gieringer, director of California NORML (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws), told the San Francisco Chronicle. “What it will do is encourage cops to conduct random screenings of young drivers without any evidence of dangerous driving and grab their licenses for no good reason.”

    Although the proposed law requires that law enforcement have reasonable suspicion that the driver might have marijuana in their system before they forcibly test them, I would not put it past some (maybe many) law enforcement officers to fabricate the reasonable suspicion so that they can conduct random screenings as Gieringer suggests.

    Fortunately, the bill provides an exemption for drivers under 21 who use medical marijuana if the officer determines that they are not impaired.
     
  3. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    They need to have an adequate system to measure cannabis is a person’s body first before they start making up laws. This law in particular could be thrown out in court. I would imagine the smell of cannabis smoke in the car would be some strikes against the people involved.
     
  4. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    They have an adequate system, blood tests. Cannabis smoke in the car would almost assuredly be probable cause to believe the driver has some level of THC in his bloodstream. That would be illegal under the law.

    As (probably) would a person under 21 smoking on Friday who drives his grandmother to church on Sunday.
     
    macbill and grokit like this.
  5. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,658
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    They used to get free or low-cost marijuana to help with their cancer. Not anymore
    The Wo/Men’s Alliance for Medical Marijuana survived a raid by federal agents and other existential threats while providing free and low-cost cannabis to seriously ill patients. In operation for the past three decades, the Santa Cruz-based collective is the oldest example of a "compassionate care" program in the nation.

    Now, the program and others like it could be forced to close due to an unlikely reason: legalization.
     
    grokit and OldNewbie like this.
  6. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Weedmaps has been issued a cease and desist letter by the CA pot czar from advertising "unlicensed" businesses. I wonder if medical cooperatives are included? I distinctly recall being told no rights were lost in the medical community from legalization.

    https://mjbizdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Letter-Re-Weedmaps1.pdf

    https://www.ocregister.com/2018/03/...-businesses-or-face-criminal-civil-penalties/

    California’s cannabis czar issued a cease and desist order to Weedmaps, directing the Irvine internet company that maps marijuana dispensaries to immediately stop promoting businesses that don’t have state licenses.

    “You are aiding and abetting in violation of state cannabis laws,” states the letter from Lori Ajax, chief of the Bureau of Cannabis Control.

    If the company doesn’t immediately drop advertisements for unlicensed businesses, Ajax said Weedmaps could face criminal and civil penalties, including civil fines for each illegal ad.

    The warning is the only cease and desist letter sent by the state to an advertising company, according to bureau spokesman Alex Traverso. But it’s one of more than 900 such letters sent by his agency to unlicensed marijuana businesses since recreational weed sales were allowed to start and licensing requirements kicked in Jan. 1.

    Traverso said many of those 900-plus black market shops were discovered on Weedmaps......​

    Some other reporting on it:
    https://mjbizdaily.com/california-orders-weedmaps-stop-advertising-unlicensed-marijuana-businesses/
    https://www.thecannabist.co/2018/03...romoting-illegal-marijuana-businesses/100775/

    There is a possibility Weedmaps will fight the order while Leafly has already agreed to the conditions.

    This is just the beginning of the end for medical. Which may be fine as much of what was medical in CA was baloney recommendations given out for money. As long as the police taxation regime does not intrude on true medical, I'm OK with it as the market will bring prices down over time and the way many cooperatives have been run, it is a joke to say they are medical cooperatives and not a business. It's just this seems shooting all in the service of big money profits does not seem to bode well for regulation.
     
  7. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Weedmaps pointed out a pile of sand to the regulators and told them to pound it.

    https://mjbizdaily.com/weedmaps-cou...quit-assisting-unlicensed-cannabis-companies/
    In a letter sent Monday to the California Bureau of Cannabis Control, the online marijuana advertising giant wrote that it is “not a Licensee subject to the Bureau’s purview.”​

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
  8. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    If they fix the housing, taxation, homeless, urine/fecal and regulatory problems, I'm there.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/san-francisco-one-few-us-cities-marijuana-lounges-062532023--finance.html

    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — The smoke was thick and business brisk at the Barbary Coast Dispensary's marijuana smoking lounge, a darkened room that resembles a steakhouse or upscale sports tavern with its red leather seats, deep booths with high dividers, and hardwood floors.

    "There's nothing like this in Jersey," said grinning Atlantic City resident Rick Thompson, getting high with his cousins in San Francisco.

    In fact, there's nothing like the Barbary Coast lounge almost anywhere in the United States, a conundrum confronting many marijuana enthusiasts who find it increasingly easy to buy pot but harder to find legal places to smoke it.

    Only California permits marijuana smoking at marijuana retailers with specially designed lounges. But it also allows cities to ban those kids of shops.

    Unsurprisingly, San Francisco is the trailblazer. It's the only city in the state to fully embrace Amsterdam-like coffee shops, the iconic tourist stops in the Netherlands where people can buy and smoke marijuana in the same shop.....​
     
    Helios, asdf420, MinnBobber and 2 others like this.
  9. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    I am truly astonished. The legislators (at least a few) of my Great State of California have realized they can't just waive the free market away.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pa3PVjZ3KZe5j3MEr2glLy2idVs4WUau/view
    https://mjbizdaily.com/california-lawmakers-start-push-lower-state-marijuana-taxes/

    In a bid to combat black-market operators, two California state lawmakers have introduced a measure to lower the cannabis tax rate for three years, which should in turn lower the prices retailers charge for legal products.

    “We need to give legal businesses some temporary tax relief so they do not continue to be undercut by the black market,” Assemblyman Tom Lackey, a Republican from Southern California, said in a statement.....​
     
    grokit, cpk, Adobewan and 5 others like this.
  10. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,881
    .....................................................................................
    Hope that passes as so many states look at cannabis as a cash cow/ golden goose, for the state to tax tax tax, and then they wonder why the black market thrives------ duh??
     
    grokit, Adobewan, C No Ego and 2 others like this.
  11. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    3,335
    Location:
    Colliefornia
    I think the legal market needs to learn how to grow bud without testing for 1000 ppm myclobutanil levels instead of constantly complaining about other markets.
     
    just_the_flu and OldNewbie like this.
  12. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,315
    BUT- what would an Assemblyman say when asked Why cannabis gets started out in his Sate via an cost per base rate as predetermined from a black market of same cannabis ( Amsterdam ??)... Uruguay was going to be 50 cents a gram to undercut the illegal market but was a disappointment when it launched, not even sure now whats going on there.. a further question would be Hemp based business and industrial infrastructure of hemp goods and gains
     
    OldNewbie likes this.
  13. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,658
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    Outlaw weed comes into the light
    Humboldt County, traditionally shorthand for outlaw culture and the great dope it produces, is facing a harsh reckoning. Every trait that made this strip along California’s wild northwest coast the best place in the world to grow pot is now working against its future as a producer in the state’s $7 billion-a-year marijuana market.

    A massive industry never before regulated is being tamed by laws and taxation, characteristically extensive in this state. Nowhere is this process upending a culture and economy more than here in Humboldt, where tens of thousands of people who have been breaking the law for years are being asked to hire accountants, tax lawyers and declare themselves to a government they have famously distrusted.
     
    grokit and OldNewbie like this.
  14. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    The small and medium growers knew this would be the result and put out a warning. I'd have to look, but think some of them are in this thread.

    I'm not so sure I'm happy with how the regulatory state is stomping on things right now. I understand there is going to be some pain in the transition period. It's just that I don't see things headed in the best direction.

    It is probably better to elect people who believe that government should not really intervene in places not necessary and focuses on users paying for the cost to others and benefits to themselves rather than those who think government should control everything and allow users to use only if they pay. In the former, there might be some small fee to pay for inspectors for testing under health regulations and a general sales tax as for all product sales with a sometime extra excise type tax for societal harm. Say, for instance, we find outdoor grows are polluting rivers and government steps in to mitigate. In the later, they tell us what we can and cannot do with the product and tax us to pay for whatever unrelated thing they desire for that permission.
     
    macbill and asdf420 like this.
  15. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    It ain't easy being green.

    Click to play YouTube Video


    https://mjbizdaily.com/nothing-going-smoothly-californias-regulated-marijuana-market/

    ‘Nothing is going smoothly’ in California’s regulated marijuana market
    It’s been almost three months since the official start of California’s recreational – and regulated medical – marijuana markets.

    So, how are things going?

    Depends on whom you ask.

    But the general consensus among business owners, advocates, regulators and elected officials is there’s still a mountain of uncertainty and troubles ahead before California’s cannabis market truly stabilizes.

    “Nothing is going smoothly,” Jackie McGowan, the director of local licensing and business development for Sacramento-based K Street Consulting, said Tuesday at a California Cannabis Industry Association (CCIA) conference in Sacramento.

    She then ticked off a laundry list of problems:

    “There’s a lack of licensing. A lack of quality product. A lack of labs to test quality product. A lack of distributors that are following the rules. And then a lack of a retail point of sale to get product to the customer.”

    State Assemblyman Tom Lackey concurs.

    “People think (cannabis legalization) is done and things will go their natural course and everything will be just fine,” said Lackey, who spoke at the CCIA conference. “Well, it’s not.

    “It’s off to a very jagged start, and we better fix it right away.”

    For his part, Lackey is trying to be part of the solution.

    The Southern California Republican is co-sponsoring a bill to temporarily lower MJ taxes in the state to help drive customers toward law-abiding retailers and away from their tax-avoiding, unlicensed competitors.

    Lackey’s measure is one of roughly 40 marijuana-related bills that have been introduced in the Legislature, said Amy Jenkins, a CCIA lobbyist.

    The bills range from small regulatory tweaks to bigger changes like establishing a state-chartered bank for cannabis companies.

    Some other solutions might be forthcoming when the agencies that oversee the industry – the Bureau of Cannabis Control and departments of Food and Agriculture, and Public Health – release their final cannabis regulations later this year.

    At the forefront of the myriad issues facing California’s cannabis entrepreneurs are:

    • A lack of local governments allowing cannabis businesses to operate in their jurisdictions.
    • Widespread fears of a supply shortage when mandated testing standards take effect in the summer.
    • The ongoing battle between licensed companies and black-market operators.
    Though it’s not the only problem, illicit cannabis may be a microcosm of the California industry’s headaches.

    “If the job was to go after the black market and to achieve a thriving white market, then we’ve failed, three months in,” McGowan said.

    ‘Sitting on their hands’

    There are inherent systemic problems for a state government that’s attempting to convince thousands of gray- and black-market businesses to opt into California’s regulated system, especially while also giving cities and counties an enormous amount of deference.

    One of the industry’s immediate concerns is that only about 33% of municipalities and counties have adopted some authorization for medical or recreational MJ companies, according to McGowan.

    That means two-thirds of the state is off-limits to companies trying to find spots to do business.

    “If there’s (no governmental support) locally, then there’s no option for a state license, and that’s why most people are being shut out at this point in time,” said the CCIA’s executive director, Lindsay Robinson.

    “The process gave local authorities an option to kind of sit on their hands, and that’s the biggest barrier that we’re seeing.”

    According to a CCIA tally, only 4,642 cannabis businesses have obtained temporary licenses to operate in the legal market, far short of the tens of thousands of unlicensed operators that comprise the largest MJ market in the world.

    Cannabis shortfall

    The dearth of licensed businesses is also stoking fears of a marijuana supply shortage come July, when retailers will be allowed to sell only products that have met strict testing standards.

    CCIA estimates that only about 20 testing labs have obtained temporary business licenses from the state and are prepping for what will likely be a huge rush of cannabis to be tested before it can be sent to market.

    “These labs aren’t able to build up the way they need to, to be prepared for July. That’s a huge concern,” said Josh Drayton, CCIA’s communications director.

    A supply shortage – which several industry observers described as “imminent” – could drive up prices for flower and wreak even more havoc in an already-turbulent market.

    Such a shortage would make it difficult for edibles makers to fill orders, for example.

    Logistical matters

    Then there are the problems that arise from day-to-day operations and a lack of understanding of already-established protocols, according to McGowan.

    “Distribution is a disaster,” she said, highlighting one example.

    McGowan estimated only 50-100 larger-scale distributors are currently shipping product to California retailers.

    She believes many of them are accidentally setting themselves up for failure by not charging buyers the state-required 15% excise tax.

    “… They think that the retailer is responsible for it,” McGowan explained. “So these distributors are going to get hit with a massive tax bill once there’s an actual track-and-trace program that’s been implemented.”

    Eventually, she surmised, that situation will lead to a dearth of distributors and retailers will then be scrambling to stock legal inventory.

    “As soon as (distributors) do get hit (with a bill for back taxes) and are forced to close or come up with massive amounts of money that they owe to the state, we’re going to be left with a handful of distributors,” McGowan said.

    “And distribution is the key to this entire thing.”

    Another key, according to CCIA’s Robinson, is the state’s marijuana traceability program.

    Franwell’s Metrc system isn’t fully functional yet, nor has the state released a mandated traceability training program for businesses and their employees, according to Robinson.

    All these issues are simply scratching the surface, as unanswered operational questions remain for delivery businesses, growers, manufacturers and other MJ companies.

    “It’s a really complex system trying to fit into a framework that’s already been up and running on its own for 30 years and already is a multibillion-dollar industry,” Robinson said.

    “We’ve still got a ways to go, no doubt. But we’re trying to be optimistic. I will say that.”
     
    grokit, Helios, Adobewan and 2 others like this.
  16. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    I know doubling up is frowned upon, but the previous was long and this is different.

    https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2018/mar/21/sheriffs-office-busts-massive-orick-bho-lab-586-po/
    On Tuesday, March 20, 2018, Humboldt County Sheriff’s Office (HCSO) deputies were in the Orick area serving a search warrant that was unrelated to controlled substances or cannabis. During the service of the warrant, deputies discovered a large concentrated cannabis manufacturing facility contained within a barn...​

    Good times. Felonies may go all around. Then again, since the state is short...

    How much was seized?

    4,726 pounds of shake/trim
    586 POUNDS of "concentrated cannabis" (Article indicates it was both butane/propane and CO2 derived. It is the lack of license for the butane/propane extraction that is the CA felony.)

    Edit:
    Also, a smaller one. (48 pounds BHO and 1,150 pounds "marijuana")
    http://www.lakeconews.com/index.php...housands-of-dollars-worth-of-materials-seized
     
    grokit and macbill like this.
  17. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,658
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    How to make legal marijuana edibles in California

    [M]aking commercial edibles requires first obtaining both local and state edibles licenses. About 65 percent of California cities and counties have banned commercial cannabis kitchens. Those that allow local licenses have zoned the activity into just one percent of available commercial spaces — making rents prohibitive. Assuming you can find a city and a place to rent, you need those local and state licenses. There’s three license types to chose from
     
    grokit, OldNewbie and Adobewan like this.
  18. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,315
    I'm so looking forward to just walking in and picking off a flower from the cannabis plant in the front window ( strain selective) and saying here ya go Sir chef please cook That! = thank you and good day as I stumble out of this establishment!
     
    grokit and macbill like this.
  19. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,658
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    Cannabis company sells California town it envisioned as a marijuana resort, but pipe dream isn't dead

    Could plans to turn an old California ghost town into a marijuana mecca be going up in smoke?

    Cannabis technology company American Green Inc., which bought Nipton for $5 million last year, has sold it to another company in a deal worth $7.7 million, acknowledging that it struggled to raise the money needed to remake the old desert mining town on the Nevada border about 60 miles south of Las Vegas into a pot paradise.

    Personally, there would have to be something other than cannabis to pique my interest in visiting town. Merely using in public is no longer a draw.
     
    grokit and OldNewbie like this.
  20. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,658
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    State's "largest marijuana landlord" sues city over regulations
    A woman who owns a business that claims to be California's largest landlord of marijuana businesses sued the city of San Bernardino to overturn its pot regulation ordinance that could bar her from the industry.

    Stephanie Smith, the owner of a business called Bubba Likes Tortillas, said in the lawsuit filed Friday in San Bernardino County Superior Court that the city's new law could create monopolies and also prevent her from renting property to pot growers and other marijuana operations.
     
  21. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,658
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
  22. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Don't grow your weed on BLM land. Even if it's only by accident and you claim you didn't know the owner of where you grow. Rorabacher-Farr won't help you even if you substantially comply with CA law. (§ 538 is, basically, Rorabacher-Farr)

    http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2018/04/05/17-10142.pdf
    Gilmore and Hemsley argue that they substantially complied with California law, despite their inadvertent presence on federal land. Because § 538 does not apply to offenses committed on federal land, state law defenses are irrelevant. It is also irrelevant whether they knew the garden was on federal land; the government is not required to prove such knowledge to convict under 21 U.S.C. §§ 841 and 846.​

    [​IMG]

    Edit:
    And, on another note:

    July may find a shortage in CA due to lack of lab testing capability.
    https://mjbizdaily.com/california-testing-labs-expect-marijuana-bottleneck-july/
    Marijuana testing labs are going to be the gatekeepers for California’s legal cannabis industry come July 1, when only lab-tested products may be sold by licensed retailers.

    And that means this summer could become a pain for any licensed cannabis company in the Golden State since most labs are predicting a shortage of testing services, long waits for results and, of course, delays in getting approval to sell the products.

    While the state’s fully regulated industry has been operating since Jan. 1 in a transition period that allowed businesses to sell untested cannabis, the labs have been awaiting the impending testing deadline.....​
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
    grokit, grampa_herb and macbill like this.
  23. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,658
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    Database of marijuana rules from every city and county in California shows slow acceptance of Prop. 64
    Fewer than one in three California cities (144 out of 482) allow any kind of cannabis business to operate in their borders. And just 18 of the state’s 58 counties permit cannabis businesses in unincorporated areas.

    Fewer than one in five California cities welcome medical marijuana dispensaries, while fewer than one in seven allow recreational cannabis stores, where anyone 21 and older has been able to shop for legal weed since Jan. 1.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chart: Breakdown of California marijuana companies that got cease-and-desist letters

    According to a list obtained by Marijuana Business Daily, as of April 4, the California Bureau of Cannabis Control (BCC) had sent cease-and-desist letters or emails to at least 954 businesses that the agency identified as potentially operating without full legal permission.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
    grokit and OldNewbie like this.
  24. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    grokit and macbill like this.
  25. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

    Messages:
    445
    Location:
    So Cal
    but aside from people pulling numbers out of their asses as to what level crosses the threshold, if we measure delta-9 in the bloodstream (invasive much?), is this linear, log?
    Does BMI enter into the picture?
    Tolerance?
    Modulating amounts of CBD present?
    How does this map onto a bell-curve?
    I'd sure like this studied scientifically (not real popular these days)...
    there has to be a better approach, whoever cracks this nut first will probably do pretty well for field testing.
     
    grokit, macbill and OldNewbie like this.

Support FC, visit our trusted friends and sponsors