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Thermovape Cera (Original thread, closed because of chaos)

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by SameOldTim, Nov 1, 2012.

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  1. natural farmer

    natural farmer god is in the neurons...

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    It wouldn't be so informative for the future vaporist to go in a thread and always read "nice" posts, right? ;)
     
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  2. 2clicker

    2clicker up to my ears in clams Accessory Maker

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    that was going to be my question :cheers:
     
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  3. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    It was 20 minutes for me, an unrealisticly long time IMO. And I didn't have to put it down, it was just getting hard to find a cool place to hang onto. A novice is not likely to need that much, and most 'power users' aren't going to plod along at that slow rate.

    You have to be careful holding a lot of vapes in use.

    I've no way of knowing what the temperatures are (except the bowl is about 400F of course) but in more typical use they are definitely cooler than T1 on the user end is under the same conditions. We've seen Noah press it to his wrist right after using it, and while he may have leather lungs I think his wrist is pretty standard WRT temperature sensitivity.

    I agree with you about 'cloud videos' they are neither quantifiable measures nor usually objective IMO, not really anyone's fault of course. I understand folks want them, for a lot of reasons, and am glad there are people out there to provide for that want.

    FWIW, I see no deal breaker heat issues, I'm sorry if I got folks thinking that. Rather, I see it as a great strength of the unit that it can be used in the novice way I did as effectively as it can. People with no skill with such stuff should be able to click it on and get useful results in a few minutes.

    Of course not, but IMO it's not OK to infer others are not being honest (especially with nothing concrete to base that on). If you have an opinion, state it and what you base that on. Folks can decide how much weight to put on it for themselves I think?

    I'm honestly trying to report my experiences here so folks can form opinions. You get to decide how seriously to take it. When I find negative things, I report those too.....right?

    There is the off chance that thus far there's not much negative stuff to be found you know.....

    Very soon lots of these will be out in service in 'average Joe's' hands. Hopefully this can remove some of the doubts.....or confirm them.

    OF
     
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  4. CarlosSpiceyWeiner

    CarlosSpiceyWeiner Well-Known Member

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    That is why I'm done with this forum.

    It's just another place that only cares about the almighty dollar.

    Not about helping people.
     
  5. Pipes

    Pipes The guy with the Afterthoughts Accessory Maker

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    I guess the batteries must go in upside down to have the light work?

    Keep the vids coming...:brow:

    Pipes
     
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  6. natural farmer

    natural farmer god is in the neurons...

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    I have found and hopefully gave a lot of help around here... :rolleyes:
     
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  7. CarlosSpiceyWeiner

    CarlosSpiceyWeiner Well-Known Member

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    Consequences smasequences.

    Who gives a rats ass if you ban me.

    I'm bored here anyway.

    Before i read the comments good leave and don't come back.

    I hope everyone enjoys sucking there big white dildo. Suckers!

    Weiner Out Permantly!

    Mod note: Public discussions of staff decisions are not permitted. Warning issued.
     
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  8. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    Interesting idea, still thinking outside the box are we Pipes? For that matter have you ever tried thinking inside the box???

    While a neat idea, I'm not sure you can make it work either. There's still the matter of the upper switch condition. With enough switch contacts available maybe you do the current return down the only available conductor across the tube? Except then there wouldn't be enough current flow to heat the device which was the original idea of the switch.

    I remain most interested in how this can be pulled off with the rules of electricity I was taught as a lad. As I expect you are as well?

    OF
     
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  9. natural farmer

    natural farmer god is in the neurons...

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    Am I the only one thinking of a small "watch" battery in that illuminating switch? :science: Just came to me...
     
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  10. 2clicker

    2clicker up to my ears in clams Accessory Maker

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    can you show us how to break down and re-assemble the Cera? i know there is not a lot to it, but it would still be nice to see.
     
  11. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    Funny, I went there too. Small world! I even considered some wild schemes to charge it in place from the main battery when off. I kept coming back to the not being able to read the upper switch issue. No connections available down there. Sensing current flow to the heater without introducing a voltage drop is far from trivial. That's the only way I can see to do this (using that 'small instrument battery' of course).

    It's caught my attention for a while, I'm very interested in how it's done. Thus far 'the guys' aren't giving out clues.....I asked nice I thought.....

    Meanwhile, in the main event, Cera is doing just fine, thank you very much.....

    I can't show you (unless you step closer to the monitor....) but I can describe it? Unscrew the bottom cap, take out the battery. Pull off the top cover, unscrew the core.

    That's it. The cover slips on (no more threads to fight) and the core is now a cylinder where you grab it (not a sharp rim) and it come complete with two o-rings to give you traction (no need for gloves, rubber bands or any similar stuff, it's built in). The threads are much more reasonable too, they don't fight you like they used to. It's like threading a bolt into a tapped hole and back out without tightening very much at all. Very nice, you'll like it.

    Hopefully some future video can include this (IMO) trivial process?

    OF
     
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  12. Pipes

    Pipes The guy with the Afterthoughts Accessory Maker

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    ??? Really???
    I think negative points are been mentioned.
    -Only available in white
    -Protruding side switch kind of looks out of place
    -Handle does get warm over time
    -Pricing
    etc, etc.

    But are generally broadcasted in a polite way. I see nothing wrong with having manners but at the same time give praise where it is deserved. Do you think manufacturers would participate in a forum full of nothing but criticizers? I think Noah and his team do a bang up job trying to accommodate us here and keep us informed.

    One example which keeps coming up is the battery and charger are not included. Well look at from another perspective. We were the ones asking back in the T1 days if the unit could be purchased separately to save money for the perks already set up with batteries and such. And now we reverse what we asked for? I think TET were desperately trying to keep the initial price down to that magic $250 number for us poor folks. You did caught the number which Noah was first quoted? It is a good call IMO as we would be looking at closer to $300 base if he included accessories which some of us may not need.

    If you decide to leave then that's up to you but don't put down good people because of positive feedback...?

    Pipes
     
  13. Darb

    Darb Well-Known Member

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    Edit. I'll take my own advice. Nothing nice to say.
     
  14. 2clicker

    2clicker up to my ears in clams Accessory Maker

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    no doubt. i was beginning to wonder why he posted what he saw as negatives multiple times.
     
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  15. Pipes

    Pipes The guy with the Afterthoughts Accessory Maker

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    If the batteries are upside down, you can have intelligences in there. Since there is power all the time. Just need a current sensing device to trigger the light. No?
    BTW, I hate it inside the box.

    Pipes
     
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  16. Tweek

    Tweek Well-Known Member

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    Great video Noah! Nice to see some clear examples of cloud production with the herbal chamber. Makes me wish I had that power switch on my T1 :D
     
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  17. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    Not yet. You've got contact with the positive (rather than negative) end of the battery, but now don't have the negaitve end or a way to get to it (it's insulated on the end you have). And, as you know, practical sensors need to sample something. For fun we could use the connecting strip up the inside wall as a shunt with good enough instrumentation but again, no contact with the free end of it. So we have to introduce a 'zero ohm shunt' below. It can be done with current mirrors of course but that calls for Amps sunk away and we have no place to attach a current sink to since we don't have a 'more negative node' to dump it in....nor the extra battery to power it. If you use electron flow definitions (rather than conventional current like us old schoolers) reverse the polarities of currents and source/sink names, the problem remains I think.

    On the bench we can do it, but in the unit we're short a few key pieces I think.

    I even thought about a pilot light (can't be an LED) of low power using the two plus Amps flowing at a few dozen mV....but such lamps not only aren't in the catalog but I don't think they can really be built in conventional packages?

    A fun nut to consider cracking for us nerds perhaps. At least until it's revealed to us. Beats sitting out the Dark Ages determining exactly how many angels can dance on a standard pin.....

    Me too. What say we get Pipes to make some aftermarket ones for us? Some spring loaded copy of a ball point pen or other 'push push' mechanism to shift the battery tube up and hold it for you? Or just put a high quality commercial switch in it like TV did for Cera......

    Pipes can do it. A long winter is coming, be good for him to have something to work on while he's snowed in doncha think?

    Good point. Notice the Iolite thread, folks drove the maker off...TWICE! A great resource was lost with it IMO. Lots of good information was coming from the factory, which got deleted both times. Who can really blame them? They come to help and seek advice, not get beat up to no productive end.

    OF
     
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  18. JoeKickass

    JoeKickass Well-Known Member

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    Why can't it simply be in-parallel with the load? The heater isn't going to drop the battery voltage that much...

    The bottom battery is at one voltage and the other side of the switch (coming back from the heater) is at the other voltage when powered on right? You don't want the switch illuminating when the device isn't on anyways (slide switch will turn illumination off)
     
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  19. Pipes

    Pipes The guy with the Afterthoughts Accessory Maker

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    This has been brought up before. A couple pennies or dimes if your rich under the battery sleeve will keep the switch engaged. Have to twist the bottom a couple turns to turn it off.

    Ok, you got me squeezing my brain here. Well I have an idea but needs a prerequisite.
    The top switch would need to be engaged first. Allowing the capacitor to charge up. The capacitor would provide power to the LED while the switch is engaged. (Neglected the current limiting resister for ease of understanding) There are some vary high value low voltage caps out there. I think enough to keep an LED going for quite a while.
    A draw back would be the LED brightness would in no way be an indicator of battery condition.

    Here is basically what I mean:

    [​IMG]

    Maybe a possibility?

    Pipes
     
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  20. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    Good thinking, but the error in the logic is right there. The 'bottom end' plus or minus and the lead coming down from the heater are shorted out by the switch when the unit is on. By definition they are at the same voltage. There is a very small, but perhaps measurable, drop across the switch we might be able to sense with good enough electronics down there and batteries to power it, but we have neither of those handy.

    We can reverse the logic, light the switch when the power is off, by putting the indicator across the switch to sense full battery voltage. This would be like the room light switches that light up in the dark (they have the same issue, but to a lesser degree). But that won't work at a system level since turning the safety switch to the safe position would remove the path and turn the lamp out (just like when the power was on to the heater), giving a misleading indication (by going out) that the heater was on. The same problem come fron the lighted switches, if the bulb is burned out, no light ever. The clue might be that the light is out in both switch positions, but that could also happen with an LED system and the battery backwards.

    BTW I just realized the safety switch won't work negative up, it needs the button on the top mechanically. Whatever you do, don't tell Pipes......

    Absolutely! A brilliant plan don't you think? Wanna guess who's lame idea it was? IIRC I suggest dimes as that's what I had on the desk at the time. Besides I like copper alloy faced with silver so it looks real more than zinc plated to look like copper. Don't you? What a joke, our country's change is counterfeit......

    Did you know commodities traders trade canvas sacks of $10,000 face value pre '64 dimes, quarters and half dollars? Or at least used to. Last I heard (many years ago) the going price was a little over $37,000, that was about 1980 IIRC not long after they stopped minting them at a loss. Sad.

    Fun idea. Needs some thinking. Could be done the other way perhaps a bit easier? Use the LED to show the capacitor charging??? I still think it won't work as a retrofit end cap. Yet.

    OF
     
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  21. jambandphan03

    jambandphan03 Vapor Goddess

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    with the dime trick, take it from me, don't forget to unscrew it, lay it down and walk off for a bit... Only did that once.
     
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  22. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    Great tip. Imagine with Cera.....five times the battery life?

    That's why my advice was 'never ever, under any circumstances....'. If you burn your house down that way, I don't know you.....

    OF
     
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  23. Tweek

    Tweek Well-Known Member

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    Just bought a new couch, so fresh out of pennies and dimes :D
     
  24. Slightly Medicated

    Slightly Medicated (SliM) Iron Lungs

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    Well I just thought I would share this here to get everyone drooling... I know I am. :) ThermoVape has been nice enough to consider me for testing of the Cera. I should be getting a unit before too long. I am looking forward to putting the Cera through my usage routine to see how it preforms. Once I receive my unit I will post my impressions/videos and such here for all to enjoy.
     
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  25. ThermoVape

    ThermoVape Vaporizer Manufacturer Manufacturer

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    Not important. Just an option. It will cool faster, not by much.
    No, not delrin. The cost would be high, we think we can do one better. We will offer low cost, American made, silicon skin/bumper. This will give an additional layer of insulation, and drop protection to the external ceramic. This will also allow for many color options. Black, Red, and likely many more. FDA approved material and sterilizable. We think this is the right material for the job in this application. It also allows us to test various thickness of silicon tubing to use, light (thin walled tubing) and extreme options (thicker walled tubing). This looks like the option we will be able to offer right away for those that:

    1. Want color options.
    2. Want some additional impact protection.
    3. Want some additional thermal protection.

    Cheers Darb, could not agree with you more. We are not making any attempt to be all things to everyone. We do not spend any money on marketing. We have no intention, or desire, to convince people that they MUST have one of our devices (except OF, we did have to convince/torture him). We do not need to sell a lot of loose-leaf vaporizers (we also make e-cigs, oil vapes) this is not a volume game for us. We could scale down and sell 1/10 of the vaporizers we currently do and still be in business. We are just doing are best to find and support people who do like the value, and performance we offer in our devices. Not to convince everyone that they must own and love our devices.

    If anyone reading is not interested in the device and value proposition we are offering. No problem, please do not purchase our products, and we do sincerely hope you find another device that better meets your needs and expectations.

    Ultra clean, portable, pocket friendly Convection vaporization is the primary value proposition we are offering. Many people, we know (because they tell us) do not care about the method (conduction, convection, etc.) their vaporizer uses, nor do they care where it is made, or really what it is made from. They may just want a device that meets their needs for vapor production, form factor, color, or any number of feature offerings that have varying levels of importance to different people.
    The Cera, if ran flat out can certainly get hot enough you would want it to cool down. We never have claimed to make a vaporizer that did not get hot. This is a ~15 Watt convection vaporizer. People should expect it to get
    Depending on the variable at play, running flat out with no air being drawn through it (Not how it is intended to be used), would be between 3.5 - 15 minutes.
    Hot enough that you would want to let it sit for a 3-5 minutes to cool off. The Cera heats up steady, and cools down steady. It will not all of a sudden get too hot to touch, it would slowly continue to increase in temperature until at some point you would want to put it down.
    I'll see what I can do. Shorter draws. What would your typical time of inhalation be?
    Sorry you did not like the video. We made this video as a response to be asking for a demonstration of techniques to get more vapor production. If you would like a demo of lower temp vaping we can work on that as well. Our goal will be to produce videos that answer people questions or requests. We find it very difficult to shoot a good video that shows everything the device can do in one 10 minute span. We are going to chunk it down into more 1 topic videos.
    You can certainly get low temperature tasty vapor. This is bread and butter Cera territory. This we can deliver all day. Much more so then a part-vape fog-machine this is the intended application of the technology. I also agree it is very hard to demo in a video.[/quote]
    You may be missing how the Cera works. You have total, absolute control over the temperature. The Cera can be easily run to produe no visible vapor, or dense visible vapor, and anywhere in between. From the absolute lowest limit of vaporization temperatures to near combustion. Temperature control is easily achevied by:

    1. Warm-Up time: 5-10 seconds for a lower temperature start, and more flavor. 20-30 seconds for a warmer start and denser vapor.

    2. Inhalation speed. This alone can be used to adjust the temperature, as this is a convection vaporizer you have a lot of control by how you choose/prefer to move air through the Cera.

    3. The activation button. Like the T1 the Cera has some power to spare (we have to account that some people live in sub-zero temperatures, altitude, high humidity environments etc.). So once the desired type of vapor is acheived using steps 1 and 2 above. The device can easily be turned off/turned on i.e. "pulsed" if desired. This keeps the device cooler, and increases battery life, and is another way that temperature can be controlled.

    Water utensil video, now on the to do list. :D

    Cheers!

    Noah
     
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