Discontinued The Grasshopper
- Thread starter midgetsanchez
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Deleted member 23961
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I finally got my hopper back from warranty. Lately noticed my batteries don't last longer than 4 hits or so. Been using the Nitecore D2 for a couple months now. Grasshopper's lights start to flash red anywhere between 3.86v - 4.00v depending on which battery. These batteries are 1 year old, and have probably seen more than the 200 cycles. Just wanted some confirmation that this behavior means I need replacements? Also I've left them on the charger overnight before without realizing once or twice, could this have degraded the batteries?
Oh man, The Machine is awesome! They play my town every summer, snuck away and hit my hopper last year. Have fun!
I'm off to see The Machine... they're a Pink Floyd tribute band. Got the hopper loaded
Oh man, The Machine is awesome! They play my town every summer, snuck away and hit my hopper last year. Have fun!
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MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
Just took apart my GH feeder again to clean it.
Close inspection reveals minute shredding of the plastic, tiny hair like strands (though much thinner) cover the surface, and can catch and hang herb particles in the feeder. Worse though, is how the plunger mechanism amplifies the abundance where it scrapes perpendicular to the printed grain.
The feeder is made of PLA 'food grade' plastic, however that term is realistically meaningless.
It is a bioplastic, and is generally considered safe.
However, it is not generally used in ways similar to what the feeder presents, and there is no toxicological analysis, even for ordinary consumption (no LD50 as it's not required for an industrial material).
The main safety concerns I have decided to share here, are concerns with colouring agent or contaminent decomposition and nano particles. It's quite possible carcinogens will form when trace amounts are heated to 200°C (GH exceeds this), although the bulk PLA constituent should be safe until ~360°C.
But nano particles are really risky. PLA has 3 to 30 times less nano particle emission than ABS plastic, for what that's worth.
I'm hesitant to continue using it now, I'm not comfortable being a test subject for the health side effects of what is ultimately an unrecommendable material for the task at hand.
The design is great, but function and safety would be better if it was made from a different material
Close inspection reveals minute shredding of the plastic, tiny hair like strands (though much thinner) cover the surface, and can catch and hang herb particles in the feeder. Worse though, is how the plunger mechanism amplifies the abundance where it scrapes perpendicular to the printed grain.
The feeder is made of PLA 'food grade' plastic, however that term is realistically meaningless.
It is a bioplastic, and is generally considered safe.
However, it is not generally used in ways similar to what the feeder presents, and there is no toxicological analysis, even for ordinary consumption (no LD50 as it's not required for an industrial material).
The main safety concerns I have decided to share here, are concerns with colouring agent or contaminent decomposition and nano particles. It's quite possible carcinogens will form when trace amounts are heated to 200°C (GH exceeds this), although the bulk PLA constituent should be safe until ~360°C.
But nano particles are really risky. PLA has 3 to 30 times less nano particle emission than ABS plastic, for what that's worth.
I'm hesitant to continue using it now, I'm not comfortable being a test subject for the health side effects of what is ultimately an unrecommendable material for the task at hand.
The design is great, but function and safety would be better if it was made from a different material
have you managed to contact them about this?
MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
No, I literally emptied my chamber and noticed the strands holding onto some chunkier bits of herb in the feeder (like spider web). I'd noticed them before, but thought it was dust (like hair particles or whatever, you know) and didn't think much of it. But this time, the sun was glaring at an angle that revealed how many strands there were. I isolated a few and they are virtually undetectable to the naked eye. Really, really small. Even bits of the bright green compared to grey plastic, the strands are so tiny they're almost indistinguishable. To one merit they are fixed in place and it took some force to break them off, but continual scraping of the piston did yield a (barely) detectable amount.
The last chamber I had filled, but not vaped, so I emptied it and examined it, trying to find fibres (this was before I isolated one). After isolation I gave up searching (would need a microscope) and tested scraping the piston and concluded that it was an unavoidable reality that particles would end up amongst most loads, although in tiny trace amounts.
Then I spent a little while doing some quick and basic internet research and decided it was worthwhile making my post above.
Ultimately, the material it's made out of is the best choice as far as 3D printable plastics go.
However within the 3D printing community, there is much debate on the safety surrounding the materials.
I think it seems likely that anyone properly educated on the matter would not recommend using the feeder as it is intended, although honestly that might be unnecessarily drastic risk evasion.
People who seem to know what they are talking about are hesitant to suggest it's safe to use any 3D printed item around food, but that is also affected by the surface geometry of a printed object, being massive and well accommodating to bacteria growth.
There is some discussion that using a PVC sealant could coat a printed object making it safe, but nothing is standardised yet.
I'm not sure it's worth contacting the creators of the feeder, because they're not breaking any laws and it could be argued (however in my opinion insufficiently) that there is no real concern.
There is a bit of info and slight potential hazard with the fumes caused from printing, which is done at temperatures similar to the hopper.
The entire nature of the GH is to avoid exposure to potentially dangerous chemicals, so I think it's worth considering extending that precaution universally.
To be frank, it is such a minor risk it's a little pedantic, but reading what I've been reading it seems using the feeder daily is going to inflict more nano particles into the lungs than not doing that. Which is totally disconcerting.
This exposure would be tiny compared to what a lot of health products on the market today offer, in actual fact we are massively polluting the environment with nanoparticulate plastics and we genuinely don't understand the implications, although they are beginning to appear almost everywhere (similar to the prevalence of CFCs in aerosols). They can be found riddled through the bodies of most marine life already, a serious widespread disaster.
They're already banned from sunscreens.
It's imminent that there will be legislature controlling their industrial use too, and lots of money is currently being spent analysing them. They might not be scary at all, the amount of exposure is definitely negligible at some scale. But until we know, I don't plan on finding out the hard way.
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Thanks for the insight, my feeder is going into the non use file. Exposure at any level negates the reason I fucked combustion in the first place. No slander against the designer, its a great device. Perhaps a metal version will be better suited......or better yet, wood.
MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
My thoughts exactly. A milled titanium version would be my choice
I've read a little more, PLA emits ~20 billion UFPs (ultra fine particles) a minute in printing conditions, however the PLA-generated UFPs have actually been shown to be biocompatible with mammals.
There is still the colour agents and potential contamination to consider, but for the most part occasional use should be fine but I won't be using mine every day.
And it's all still very much unknown, but direct injection to the lungs is a little brave at this point
Hjalmark
Oldest boy alive
thanks for that post, was going to buy it but now I think I wait a bit to see what happens, when I saw it in the start I was worried about the print being to rough and would flake through the action of mechanics, I seen some video on Tested were they use an solvent off gassing to smooth out the surface, think it was acetone ?, wonder if that could work to create a surface smooth enough not to scrape against moving parts but I have no idea, love to see photos of this unit taken apart and see if it could be made out of wood instead
vapviking
Old & In the Way
Yes, thanks for this totally thorough description/analysis/head's up. I hope that the printed version has only been a test-market job for some better-made piece. They are definitely on the right track, but this highlights how careful we all have to be with all new products. And now that we plan to "deregulate everything!"....
There was a short bit on 60 Minutes last night about the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval and their test labs, started over a hundred years ago...Hey! maybe we should send one to them (ha!)
@MoltenTiger you've gone above and beyond once again with all your research; I believe we should all appreciate it.
There was a short bit on 60 Minutes last night about the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval and their test labs, started over a hundred years ago...Hey! maybe we should send one to them (ha!)
@MoltenTiger you've gone above and beyond once again with all your research; I believe we should all appreciate it.
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moondog
It's an obsession but it's pleasin'
Here, here! Thank you MT!!
While I'm thinking of it, can someone tell me how to create the "bold @Username" method of referring to another user? I can't seem to suss out anything other than manually typing and bolding, but I know that's not correct since when others do it it creates a link. TIA.
GreenHopper
20 going on 60
Just type the '@' symbol and then the username, like this '@moondog'.
You should get a list of usernames matching your criteria as you are typing.
moondog
It's an obsession but it's pleasin'
Thanks @GreenHopper, it worked! Not sure why it didn't last time.
JoeMama
Well-Known Member
@MoltenTiger , thank you for such a thorough analysis of the Feeder plastics issue!
Anybody wanna buy a couple of Feeders?
Anybody wanna buy a couple of Feeders?
MoltenTiger
Well-Known Member
I did a little more research, this time using all my vapes at once.
Would you believe my GH with a dodgy back end does a better job than the EQ? ABV test wise anyway. The hit itself basically wrote me off for.. shit 3 hours. Crazy
In a similar stupor I once put an EQ mouthpiece in the hoppers SMP, it's quite a stretch haha. Thought it might split it. Then when I went to hit it it cop lighted me! But I was already kiefed so I forgot those details til I saw the @vapviking's pic
I just tested the body again with a GHB2 and it still has the cop lights. Those cop lights are a cop out. When/if I finally get my replacement back-end, I'll have to drop a pic of my hopper hardware. Lots of Ti for the coin!
Cheers for the shout outs btw, I feel kinda bad shitting on the product like that especially as it is so handy and works well enough. But it is what it is I guess, probably still the best tool for discreet refills.
The same design with a little window/clear wall so you can monitor the load would be mint. Or a simple funnel/plunger could be good potentials.
Would you believe my GH with a dodgy back end does a better job than the EQ? ABV test wise anyway. The hit itself basically wrote me off for.. shit 3 hours. Crazy
In a similar stupor I once put an EQ mouthpiece in the hoppers SMP, it's quite a stretch haha. Thought it might split it. Then when I went to hit it it cop lighted me! But I was already kiefed so I forgot those details til I saw the @vapviking's pic
I just tested the body again with a GHB2 and it still has the cop lights. Those cop lights are a cop out. When/if I finally get my replacement back-end, I'll have to drop a pic of my hopper hardware. Lots of Ti for the coin!
Cheers for the shout outs btw, I feel kinda bad shitting on the product like that especially as it is so handy and works well enough. But it is what it is I guess, probably still the best tool for discreet refills.
The same design with a little window/clear wall so you can monitor the load would be mint. Or a simple funnel/plunger could be good potentials.
moondog
It's an obsession but it's pleasin'
@MoltenTiger, your commitment to rigorous research and the "sacrifices"I did a little more research, this time using all my vapes at once.
Would you believe my GH with a dodgy back end does a better job than the EQ? ABV test wise anyway. The hit itself basically wrote me off for.. shit 3 hours. Crazy
In a similar stupor I once put an EQ mouthpiece in the hoppers SMP, it's quite a stretch haha. Thought it might split it. Then when I went to hit it it cop lighted me! But I was already kiefed so I forgot those details til I saw the @vapviking's pic
I just tested the body again with a GHB2 and it still has the cop lights. Those cop lights are a cop out. When/if I finally get my replacement back-end, I'll have to drop a pic of my hopper hardware. Lots of Ti for the coin!
Cheers for the shout outs btw, I feel kinda bad shitting on the product like that especially as it is so handy and works well enough. But it is what it is I guess, probably still the best tool for discreet refills.
The same design with a little window/clear wall so you can monitor the load would be mint. Or a simple funnel/plunger could be good potentials.
you're willing to make on behalf of hopperdom are inspiring and most appreciated.
moondog
It's an obsession but it's pleasin'
The Ratchett mini funnel and stand make for super easy loading at home. The funnel and a pair of knees would be a simple on-the-go solution.
duff
Well worn
The Ratchett mini funnel and stand make for super easy loading at home. The funnel and a pair of knees would be a simple on-the-go solution.
Meant to say something a while back about the funnel idea.
Take a piece of Post-it.
Make a cone and use the sticky to tape it together.
Press it flat so that it folds in half as neatly as possible.
Cut off the tip.
There's my new preferred way to fill it. It is just about perfect (a straight end that sits in the chamber would be better, but it's a damn post-it...what do you want).
Fits in my wallet and fits the chamber as well as I want it to.
Meant to say something a while back about the funnel idea.
Take a piece of Post-it.
Make a cone and use the sticky to tape it together.
Press it flat so that it folds in half as neatly as possible.
Cut off the tip.
There's my new preferred way to fill it. It is just about perfect (a straight end that sits in the chamber would be better, but it's a damn post-it...what do you want).
Fits in my wallet and fits the chamber as well as I want it to.
vapviking
Old & In the Way
I had one out of a glossy card stock and scotch tape, until a Delta3D funnel. About the same size! His stand and funnel are
but yeah usually do stay at home.man i got my hopper back now it charges and this thing is a beast even when not fully packed, only thing the unit they returned me had a dent on the mouthpiece where the vapor comes out, did not have that before. hopefully they will send me another top without me having to send the unit back again. Anyway this has become my favorite vape.. only problem is the battery life so i have 4 batteries,
ooo
Well-Known Member
speaking of Ratchett, how long does it usually take for orders to get sent out? i placed one last week for a few Grasshopper goodies and still haven't heard anything other than getting an invoice for my order.
moondog
It's an obsession but it's pleasin'
Figure on 6-7 days.
Quick question for anyone who has one of Ratchett's leather cases:
Is it possible to remove and replace the hopper in its sleeve while the case is closed? In other words, do you HAVE to unsnap and unroll the case to get to your hopper?
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