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excessive vape coughing

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by twenty6dollars, Oct 6, 2012.

  1. twenty6dollars

    twenty6dollars Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    st kilda
    hey there

    i'm pretty new to vaping, been smoking spliff for 20 years but bought a da buddah a few weeks ago and loving it.

    i'm vaping straight green though it, but my problem is that it generally seems to result in insane coughing fits, which on more than one occasion have led me to vomit.

    am i doing something wrong?

    is this common, or something that will clear up given more regular use?

    any advice, hypotheses or information would be much appreciated

    cheers, dan
  2. HyDroid

    HyDroid Riding on a cloud...

    Messages:
    15
    This happens to me when I take a very large hit or when I accidentally burn it a bit. The feelings in the lungs for those two are distinct. What color is the herb when you're done?

    What kind of sensations do you feel that lead to the cough? Is it deep sting associated with massive THC intake?

    If so, you might try taking smaller hits and more of them. Drawing faster causes the air to spend less time over the herb, and therefore decreases the vapor concentration. You could also try turning down the temperature. The behavior is a little more subtle than this but this is the gist IMO.
  3. griff9

    griff9 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    UK
    Vapor generally seems to have more of a tickle on the throat then smoke from what I've found.

    However it sounds as if your lungs are going through a self-cleaning period from giving up smoking.

    Personally I think even if you weren't vaping you would still be coughing a lot as your lungs are trying to get the tar off your chest from when you did smoke.

    However your coughing even more then you would be due to the vaping. THC vapor is an irritant on the respiratory system and can make you want to cough (I think this is because it expands in the lungs - could be wrong on this bit in brackets? can anyone confirm?)

    You will get more used to vapor when your lungs have cleaned up all the tar. The vapor will not be any less harsh on the throat then it was before, It's more that once your lungs have cleaned the tar you will be able to stand the tickle without coughing because you have no tar on your lungs to cough up. if you see what I mean?

    To stop your vapor being as harsh / tickly there is a couple of things you can try

    1. Stick to lower temperatures and thinner vapor - The higher the temperature = the thicker the vapor = the harsher the vapor

    2. Filter your vapor through a water pipe

    3. Take smaller hits

    Congratulations on making the switch and hope you continue to enjoy the vapor! you will stop coughing as much in no time
    Cereal_MF, smokum and momofthegoons like this.
  4. twenty6dollars

    twenty6dollars Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    st kilda
    thanks a bunch a guys - i suspect smaller hits are the go.

    hydroid:
    The herb is still brown when I'm done, and I know what you mean about the two distinct feelings between burning and pulling too hard.
    The sensation is like a really rough tickle, which I'd say is more like the deep sting of too much THC intake.

    griff9

    i think you're right mate, that maybe my lungs are going through a period of readjustment - and that mayeb I just need to make more of an effort to moderate my hits in the meantime.

    appreciate your advice here guys

    all thebest $26
  5. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,586
    My worst coughing fits come the morning after I have used a vape where particulates get through. Sometimes I need a finer screen and sometimes I need to use a coarser grind. I remember a whole lot of shit used to get through my ssv, which is similar to your dbv. It's easy enough and it's free to start with a coarser grind and see how that goes.
  6. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,450
    Location:
    Other side of your screen
    THC is a known expectorant so it tends to promote coughing. I don't think it has anything to do with expanding in the lungs. I've not come across such an idea in my research, at any rate.

    This excellent advice.

    twenty6dollars, it would help if we knew more about how you're vapourizing: what device do you use (oops, missed that part), what temperature do you use, how long do you try to hold it in, that sort of thing.
    griff9 likes this.
  7. twenty6dollars

    twenty6dollars Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    st kilda
    cheers again

    pakalolo - i generally start the unit it at barely even turned on, just flicked on and siting at 9 o'clock. fill the wand 5mm to 10 mm, then do 5 or 6 pulls. Give it a shake around, repack, have a couple more draws.

    The maybe crank it to 11 o'clock and have anoohter 5 or 6 pulls til it seems cooked.

    I try to hold the vapour in as long as possible, but that's not the issue, if I'm gonna start coughing it starts straight away after i've inhaled.

    I think I just need to get over this psychological need to get as much of this into me as quickly as possible. Slow and steady wins the race, I guess.

    thanks again for the advice

    26$
    smokum likes this.
  8. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl 200% THC

    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    SDCA, 3rd Planet
    Not sure what you meant, but I've read on more than one forum/medical journal/etc that THC is a very good bronchodilator. I can definitely feel the "opening" with low vape temps on sativas, although since I know you enjoy low vapor temps already, maybe you don't see it happening because it always happens? Possibly that became your "norm?"

    http://www.cannabis-med.org/english/faq/03-asthma.htm


    I don't want to say that this is common, although it sounds like it's a combo of what's been discussed here. High temp, slow draws, etc. Here's something to ponder... you've been smoking spliffs (which I assume means tobacco and cannabis) for around 20 years. Maybe your body has adjusted itself to the feel of the "throat hit" of smoking, that satisfaction in the throat and chest when you take a nice big puff, the visual cues of the cloud of smoke being exhaled telling you that it was a good one... When you're smoking, you destroy a decent amount of the cannabinoids due to the lighter/cherry. The evidence for this one that I personally see is that I end up needing to vaporize less to get the same effects as smoking one bowl/spliff. You kinda have to dis-associate your thinking of "big clouds = big high" because you're comparing the light whispy (yet still quite warm and powerful) vapors with tobacco and cannabis smoke which provides more of a bite.

    I've noticed that it does take people a few weeks to "transition" from smoking, and this is where people fall off. "Oh it hurts" "oh it's not fun" "it doesnt feel right" etc. You don't need huge vapor clouds, although subconsciously maybe you're trying to compensate for the missing "throat hit" by taking bigger rips... which still don't provide the proper feeling, but are choked FULL of cannabinoids (compared to the smoke from the tobacco and cannabis which does have cannabinoids as well, but not as many and mixed with other chemical byproducts of smoke.)

    The coughing thing... I had too. Not as bad though, haha. Drop the temperature down and experiment a bit with it. Try to find a compromise where you can take a nice drag of vapor, hold it in for a bit, and exhale... savor the taste of what you have. You'll notice that (if you have stopped smoking tobacco completely) your sense of taste and smell will be returning, and make the vapors taste like wine, complex yet simply delicious. You don't need huge vapor clouds, although you may find them preferential. But try dropping the temp and give it a go with the lower-end temp spectrum for a few days and see how that treats you. I don't take big rips anymore unless I am getting a really bad nausea/pain flareup.

    It's an odd process, one of "un-learning" what you thought was right (but isn't wrong, just not appliable) and figuring out what works best for YOU. Maybe you will find a happy compromise on the hotter half, and I will prefer my medium-range temps. And you know what? Whatever works for you is good.
    Cereal_MF likes this.
  9. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,450
    Location:
    Other side of your screen
    That would be because I completely misread what he meant. I took it to mean that the vapour was expanding somehow in the lungs. Bronchodilation didn't enter into my head. Everything makes more sense now.

    The rest of your post is excellent advice, but...


    I've never used a DBV but is this not starting at low temps for that device? I read 26$ as saying that's just barely turned on. Of course, my reading comprehension is suspect at this point.
  10. kingofnull

    kingofnull ace

    Messages:
    2,366
    Location:
    Canada
    9 o'clock seems pretty low. I thought 12 was sort of the ideal setting for first time users.

    I highly recommend filtering through a water pipe.
  11. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl 200% THC

    Messages:
    3,798
    Location:
    SDCA, 3rd Planet
    Ahahahahah holy crap I totally didn't even see the 9 o clock reading.

    Dang it! Spent all that time telling him to do what he was already doing...
  12. griff9

    griff9 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    UK
    Pakaloko - I don't know why I thought THC expanded in the lungs! your completely right that it doesn't..
    I must of been more :ko: then i thought when i wrote it!
  13. Nycdeisel

    Nycdeisel Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,946
    Location:
    nyc
    Could be different things. My first and instinct guess would be that you are simply going too hot (maybe along with taking too big of a hit). Next I would say your herb should be more dry, so it will vape better though you may want to turn the temp down for dryer herb so as not to come near combustion temperatures. Play with the way you inhale the vapor as well. There is a learning curve with all vaporizers, though each vape is a very different experience, as you will learn when you purchase a second different vaporizer at some point(which we all hope you will since we hope you are enjoying it and having a satisfying vapor experience :))

    As soon as you inhale into your lungs, try to be relaxed, and breathe some fresh cool air in over that, and hold for 5-10 seconds, which is what you want to do for vapor, and exhale slowly. Take it easy and start with small hits and gradually you can increase so you dont feel that uncomfortable sensation. Be sure to stay hydrated also;)



    one last thing that I would consider if I were you. is the plastic tubing. I personally can not stand the plastic it comes with, and would only use a high temperature silicone tubing for any vape. you can get the kind that will fit the Da Buddha Vape right here, and the dimensions of the tubing for the DBV is 3/8" ID x 1/2" OD x 1/16" Wall
    and I think the SOFT is the one you would want for this, possibly semi soft...
    http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-plastic-and-rubber-tubing/=jm0eku
  14. twenty6dollars

    twenty6dollars Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    st kilda
    cheers for the help guys, my technique's getting better already
    Cereal_MF and Nycdeisel like this.
  15. Cereal_MF

    Cereal_MF ~Quantum Soup~

    Messages:
    293
    Location:
    Some street somewhere
    I was also gonna start a thread about this. I notice that I want to cough more when im breathing in a higher ratio of air to thc, as opposed to what most would expect. "tickly" is a great description of the feeling, and its almost harder to not cough than when smoking..

    I think this is in part due to being used to taking huge hits when smoking, probably which numbed the airway more or less, and smoking daily, I adapted to that.

    Makes sense then why vapors might feel odd or "tickly" at first. But I also want to note that when i cough its not the kind where oh fuck i just charred my lungs, like with smoking, just... tickly. BTW I am vaked :)
  16. bigtvapes

    bigtvapes Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    250
    DBV hits hard, son. That's how DBVs do.

    Drink some water before you vape. Also during and after. If you're not gonna use a water pipe you're going to need some kind of moisture back there. Thicker vapors can be an irritant in the smooth airways. A little humidity makes a huge difference.
  17. blais

    blais Active Member

    Messages:
    77
    I am the exact same way if I take a large hit I will cough for like 10 mins even with water filtration
  18. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations,

    While i'm waiting for dame nature to do her thing i've just finished an "alternate-source" sample which caused me to cough severely, especially at the begining of a session around 185 °C (365 °F). Everything failed at 1st - including fog-conditioning - but as i climbed the temperature scale i noticed the last few inhalations near 200 °C (392 °F) weren't that bad and yet those felt satisfying. Perhaps someone who coughs a lot and lives with other vaporists could try to vape last and see what happens?... Though i thought harder hits usually occured at high temperature, i simply wonder.

    :peace:
  19. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    735
    It is most likely due to the essential oils effecting the cilia, and the lungs. As you went up in temperature there were less of these oils being released, so less irritation, or lung dilation. THC, is tasteless so it doesn't effect the lungs as much as the essential oils. This is one of the reasons why concentrates can feel so hard on the lungs, they are high in essential oils, which when taken in too high of a concentration in the lungs can cause irritation, and effect the lungs. Moisture plays a part also, but it isn't the only reason people get lung irritation from smelly, potent buds.

    I think the reason why people who vape or smoke a lot don't continue to get the irritation as someone who has just started vaping/smoking, is because the person who vapes/smokes all the time have less active cilia then someone who doesn't due to the thick vapor/smoke bogging down the receptors for bitter compounds on the cilia, especially if they take in thick vapor or smoke, so the newcomer will cough way more then the experienced person who takes in thick vapor/smoke.

    The best technique to avoid this is to use very little in the session, and just add more herb when you want a good taste as you go up in temperature, and the herb tastes bad.

    BTW, I don't think the essential oils are a bad thing when used in a small dose. In fact I think they will enhance your lungs by keeping the cilia active, which in the long run will make your lungs more stronger, as long as you eat the right foods to repair them. They will also help more cannabinoids be absorbed as they help the lungs dilate more then they usually are, which means more blood being in the lungs to allow more cannabinoid absorption which is why starting at a low temperature then raising it in increments is best. You are essentially preparing your lungs to absorb as much cannabinoids as possible by allowing the essential oils to help clean out the lungs of dust by activating the cilia. As well as bring more blood to the lungs with dilation of the smooth muscles in the lungs.
    Check this out.

    http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2010/10/25/bitter-lungs

    "Liggett said he expected the bitter-taste receptors in the lungs to produce a "fight or flight" reaction, causing chest tightness and coughing so people would leave the toxic environment.
    "But that's not what we found," Liggett said.
    Instead, when scientists tested some nontoxic bitter compounds on mice and on human airways in the laboratory, the airways relaxed and opened more widely.
    The compounds "all opened the airway more profoundly than any known drug that we have for treatment of asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease," Liggett said."

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090724144530.htm

    The study is the first to show that motile cilia on airway cells not only have this "clearing" function, but also use the receptors to play a sensory role. The researchers also found that when the receptors detect bitter compounds, the cilia beat faster, suggesting that the sensing and the motion capabilities of these cellular structures are linked."
    "
    GR and Egzoset like this.
  20. chris 71

    chris 71 Active Member

    Messages:
    81
    good reading in this thread. i was just reading the water cure thread, and now after reading your post luchiano, gots me thinking maybe water cured bud could be real smooth and easy on the throat and lungs as, lost of the oils would be leached out hmm... only thing is some of these oils could be important in the overall synergie effects, that we may unkowingly actully be wanting .
    i experience some dificulties with this coughing sometimes too. and love the fogger idea egzoset. i seen your posts on another thread.
    the other day i was checking out some foggers at the pet shop because of your post here good work guys.
  21. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations Chris 71,

    Thanks! :D

    To the attention of those who might be tempted to experiment with fog nebulizers lets just mention that we should:

    1) Never manipulate the "puck" while it's working...
    2) Use some support to make more room for water

    Here's what my prototype looks like at the moment:

    [​IMG]

    This is made of a 455 ml glass bottle filled at about 2/3, during my test i actually forgot to add the "J" bubbling-tube to include water-filtration. Anyway, it's OKay for testing purposes but be warned that i still don't feel at ease with electronics so close to the cannabic path (all that would really need to be there is the piezo disc itself)...

    :peace:
  22. HippedCandy

    HippedCandy Member

    Messages:
    3
    I also had side effects when I first started, not coughing but a sinus a throat reaction. I found that if I placed a fluffed q-tip in my mouthpiece and then put on the whip that gave me a crude filter of sorts as it catches quite a bit of partiiculat plant matter. I can see the build up and as simple as it seems, my problem went away.
    Egzoset likes this.
  23. ilikesnacks

    ilikesnacks Active Member

    Messages:
    40
    i used to get a crazy cough off of vaping that i figured was from the dryness, but its gotten better with time - definitely keep water close by at all times!
    MrNorml likes this.
  24. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Quetzalcoatl likes this.
  25. ilikesnacks

    ilikesnacks Active Member

    Messages:
    40
    it makes him look like a wizard.
    Quetzalcoatl and Nycdeisel like this.

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