Discussion in 'Success Stories' started by rockynh, Aug 5, 2011.
No, It's not.
definitely dont want to get involved in any of this, but hydrocarbons are just chains of carbons with hydrogens bonding to the "bald spots". they are in so many things. thc has a hydrocarbon tail, but pretty much all fats (lipids) do...its not really considered a "hydrocarbon" itself. those aromatic rings make it pretty stable, more complex, & give it different properties than if they were hydrocarbon chains alone.
also, although some small hydrocarbons do, not all of the light ones just boil away at lower temperatures (energies). it comes down to how they stack up (like how it takes a lot of energy to pick pennies off of the floor - if pennies had bends instead of being so flat, you could pick em up easier) and other intermolecular forces, etc...
but i do not think the hydrocarbon chain will boil off of the rest of the molecule without a lot of energy and other factors, too.
kind of how saturated fats are nice & smooth & stack up...it makes them really hard to "burn" off. thats why saturated fats are not as good as unsaturated fats (i mean for humans to consume healthwise). they store & build up.
unsaturated fats have bends, folds, and kinks in them, so they cant really stack up as easily as saturated ones. thats why these fats get removed much more easily. (like the penny-on-the-floor example).
but i didnt read what you guys were talking about before the chemistry talk so im just going to exit back out of this. just thought i could contribute that...
& in chemistry, combustion implies oxygen, heat, & light (i know its very vague & not typically how we classify it on this website, but thats what combustion is - not really ash, carcinogens, black stains, etc...but i dont know if we use the chemistry terms interchangeably on FC or not...).
thats why im going to get the omicron e-spliff...its supposed to vaporize your concentrates with absolutely no combustion. it was that or the eclipse vape, where i would have to pay a lot of attention to it. no swings/skillets/TIs/domes for me...
you're right, just googled it and the mistake I made was that I thought anything containing C and H was called a hydrocarbon, while wikipedia now tells me it has the contain ONLY C and H
All of this is true somewhat because all saturated fats are not bad it depends on the length of the chain and animal fat, including humans, is long chain which is hard to breakdown and causes a lot of problems whereas some plant fats like palm and coconut are medium chained and things like ghee(clarified butter) from grass fed cows are high in short chain fats which are not really a problem for the body as it uses these short and medium chained fats for energy as it would use glucose. If you read my post I stated the short chained hydrocarbons are the ones that can boil off at room temperature not all hydrocarbons. They are the reason you can smell the bud a few inches from your face even though it hasn't been heated. It is the essential oil containing terpenes, which help make them hydrocarbons, is what I'm talking about in this thread that is causing the problems when heated up too hot. This, besides moisture, is why I think it gives such a lung kick, a lot of compounds that the body doesn't want is being created and they are irritating to the respiratory system.
This is the first time in well known history that people are able to take in such concentrated oils and heat them at such a high heat and ingest them will a lot of oxygen(bongs) allowing for a lot of free radicals to be made within the body and who knows how this will effect people over time. I'm not downing people for doing it but to just think about what you're doing. You can't look into the past to see how it turned out for them because they only smoked hash, which wasn't as pure as it is now and even if it were they weren't using ultra hot metal to heat it up and suck it through a big bong tube that will allow the oil to soak up so much oxygen before going into the body. THIS IS A NEW FRONTIER and to me it isn't the best choice to use concentrates daily, once in a while is ok. The beauty of concentrates is that you can titrate your doses better for vaping or eating and you can get the strong head high without the extra body high(if it's fresh and not a lot of thc degradation into cbn) from the amino acids and minerals in bud.
That's my post on this and I'm done because it's more of an emotional debate than a logical and intelligent one.
BTW, I combust once in a while but as I got older I appreciate optimum health and enjoying the build up of the high. Going from sober to high in a smooth slope is fun, one minute it's just a regular day then while you're walking or talking next thing you know it's "Luchiano in wonderland" and I know it isn't going to cause any harm to my body and in fact it will make me better. When I do combust it's because I don't want to show how a vaporizer works or I just want the fast come up but that is rare as I now learn to be happy with me and if I'm already high and other people want to start puffing and I say no then they can take it how they want. I learned kissing ass will leave you dead, broke, busted and/or disgusted with no one around to help you get out of your rut so I do me as long as I'm not hurting myself and others.
domes/skillets are right on the border of vaporization/combustion. after reading up on oil smoke points (point at which an oil emits smoke), I'm inclined to say that it is combustion. Your link text. Check out that list, looks like the highest is 520 f. the vaporization point of thc is 390 though I don't know what the smoke point of bho. but lets assume its 520. unless your nail/skillet is between though temps, you are, IMO, smoking not vaping.
EDIT. just realized all those oils on that list are fats. thc is not a fat. I'm not familiar with the chemical structure, but its smoke point could be radically different.
I smoke if I'm in a hurry... like today, I didn't have time to get all the launch box stuff ready and get a nice, fine grind (I'm anal about my grind ha, like coffee--actually, I spend more time grinding herb than coffee haha). And it's pretty not smart to drive around trying to hit the vapor genie ha.
So I just twisted up a quick j-bone and left for class... Now, when smoking, the medicated effects seem to hit me faster/harder, but they also dissipate quickly. Vaping is a longer process to get to that intense, medicated effect, but when there, it lingers.
I do mostly vape, though. The only times I smoke is when my friends are here and bitch about not getting good hits off my vapes... then I'll let them load whatever. I REALLY need a new glass bong though because I love vaporbonging, but when someone smokes out of your glass rig, you have to clean it right away or it SERIOUSLY taints the amazing vape taste.
life is tough... haha.
Interesting talks about oils... I always thought it was real dense smoke for vaping, but I dunno... I've also never gotten to try oils/concentrates, though. DAMN YOU, MISSOURI! ha.
funny story, though... my LHS started selling concentrate utensils/domes/etc. I was like, whoa. We don't get that out here... and the dude behind the counter was like "all depends on who you know, man" and I was like "well who the hell do YOU know?" ha.
well, you know yourself. most of these things are fairly easy to make if you have patience. you can youtube stuff, or even search here on FC...if you need to know more, just ask...
then go introduce yourself to the guy @ your LHS...
Oh, I know I can make it... I just never have a spare eighth to do a bho run... Friends keep talking about throwing down on the process, but I've yet to see any real dollar bills on the table ha
Either that or you need a new heavy-hitter vape, something that is going to shut your friends up about not getting good hits.
I only combust when I'm all out of green. If I don't have any Cadbury and no ability to get some in the very near future, I smoke my ABV. As everyone on here knows, its not a typical high and doesn't hold a candle to vaping the real thing, but when desperation sets in, it can be a life saver.
Only under the most extreme of cases do I combust anymore.
try it with some really cheap stuff to see how you like it 1st maybe?
when i had no access to cheap stuff (in socal), the person i got it from had a bunch of shake/leaves/etc stuff from PREMIUM plants that they wanted to get rid of...sometimes they just gave it to me, other times they would give it to me for like $10 for like 6 ozs...
so if you happen to know someone who grows...or know someone who knows someone, i think this is stuff that most people throw away after trimming & stuff. i think there are certain seasons for this.
but this girl i knew would always ask me to keep getting some for her because she could cook with it (instead of using her ganja for cooking).
just be like, "ya if u got any that u dont want, i could take it from you"...like car-shopping, dont let them know youre interested. its their trash, anyways.
if you get the trimmings & stuff, you could freeze it before doing your experiments...it works!
I was curious as to what exact temperatures were involved with the Titanium skillet, so I purchased a laser temperature scanner for this test. I figured I would also use it for checking temps when making extracts.
Here's the results:
Skillet temp. prior to test...
This is at full temp. skillet glowing dull red...
After which the torch is shut off, dabber with concentrate already attached picked up, swing moved into position... and this is the temp. when concentrate is applied to the skillet.
The oils are boiling NOT burning, thus producing vapor not smoke.
very awesome stuff dude...finally some proof that shows that its vapor, not smoke! ive been wondering about this for so long.
so while its being heated its up at like 540ish but as soon as the flame is off, it goes down to 270ish? thats some rapid heat loss!
That's the nature of 99% pure Titanium and a 1/16 of an inch thick skillet.
i am pretty sure that a laser therm. is not a very accurate way to measure the heat of your ti. i think the budtoaster guy suggested that the best way to get accurate temps off of a glassbudvial (in his case) was to use a temp probe. where you actually make contact with the object your measuring. i would love to hear the results of the temps of the ti during a session, if someone was willing to do this experiment....
For the intent of this thread and to this particular issue, a laser therm is perfectly adequate. As for the accuracy of my laser therm...
I have what may be a stupid question. As I've never used a nail or swing, I don't know what the experience is like and moreover I don't know what the smell of the exhaled smoke and/or vapor is like. Combustion smells very distinctive, while vapor is virtually without a scent. So my question is: what does the exhaled vapor and/or smoke smell like?
i was never lucky enough to try it myself, either...im a dab-virgin
i can help. ever done hot knives? pretty much the same thing.
the experience is like this.
you heat up the curve. then once the side of it im gonna hit is red i stop heating it.
wait till it looks normal again (there is such a thing as too much heat) and add your dab! pro tip: make small dabs! lol. its easy to make a dab too big. kinda a waste and will put you on your ass too!
I find 2-3 small dabs and I am way higher than i am normally off of my herbs. oils are to weed as crack is to coke
@ Bodhi Diesel you rock dude! thanks for sharing that with us!
C'mon man do you think I'm stupid?.
How can the temperature go from over 500f when it is a dull red glow, which most people use a sharp red glow so the normal use would be much high temperature, to only 267f right after you disable the torch with no cooling whatsoever?.
I also notice the maxumum temperature the reader goes is 537f and your temperature says 524.5f which sounds like you heated up your pad while using the reader and let it cool until took the picture because I find it odd that the temperature you heated up the pad to happens to be only thirteen degrees less than the maximum temperature the reader goes to. Plus the pad is hardly glowing which isn't normal use of the pad so I sense trickery going on. Someone call James Randi.
The fact that you have the temperature at 267f BEFORE using the oil is a lie because it takes a while for bud to vape at 267f so how are you vaping oil which is way thicker and holds more energy at such a low temperature. THC doesn't even boil a little at that temperature.
I can't believe you stooped this low to defend a technique only to most likely prove me right because I suspect that 267f temperature is after you inhaled cool air through the bong and cooled off the pad which proves the pad isn't stable enough as far as holding heat like real vaporizer is.
BTW, don't try to edit your post when you realize how your story doesn't add up. I know I'm not the only one who notices things are not adding up being that we vaporize and do study temperatures. If someone here has gotten high off of bud at 267f please speak. If you got high off of hash or oil I really want to hear from you because I think you may be the second coming of Jesus Christ.
This is sad man, real sad.
mod note: If you can't disagree with what someone posts without calling them a liar, then you're out of luck here.
You obviously didn't read ALL of my post, genius, because I explained the timing IN DETAIL....
"After which the torch is shut off, dabber with concentrate already attached picked up, swing moved into position... and this is the temp. when concentrate is applied to the skillet."
The concentrate boiled away at 267f into a thick stream of vapor. This concentrate btw...
What's truly sad is that you're so inexperienced in vaporizing concentrates that you want to spread your stupidity to the rest of this forum.
Prove me wrong or STFU.
mod note: you're breaking our 'be nice' rule as well
I read your post and like I stated how can you drop 257 degrees in a matter of seconds or even minutes using metal that isn't paperthin, has a red glow to it with no cooling.
Also, how can you boil away ALL of the oil at 267f when thc has been shown by mercks to boil at 392f. I give up because you are just going to keep lying even though someone who is analytical will see the holes in your story.
Again, someone who has vaped oil or bud at 267f within a few seconds please speak up.
Research 99% pure Titanium and it's heat shedding properties.
You had better give up, because you're wrong. The concentrate boiled away at 290f and continued to boil right down to 220f, when I stopped inhaling.
You obviously have never done a vapor swing or vapor globe hit.
Now prove I'm lying or STFU !!!
Now it's 290f. What's the next lie?. BTW, still too low of a temperature for oil, and even bud. If it went as low as 220f the oil would just congeal and not vape at all.
Also, your titanium pad is thicker and denser than something thin or like a screen with holes in it so I doubt it will drop that much so fast. Why do you think you need a torch to heat up the metal in the first place, because it's dense and hold's heat. Titanium just cools off faster than others but considering you are heating it way past the temperature needed for herb it is unnecessary unless you want a qucik hit which is up to you but you're going to burn some oils and way more than vaporizing. You will also raise your tolerance too quickly which isn't a good thing but that is another subject.
Vaporizing is all about temperature control and you seem to not get this fact.
Vaporizing is to keep temperatures lower than combustion... for me....
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