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Cloud-chaser: Derogatory term or innocent classification?

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by t-dub, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. DreamTime

    DreamTime 110100100

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    I didn't think"cloud chaser" was a derogatory term, but if people who are being called "cloud chasers" feel it is derogatory then I am happy to respect their feelings and look for another term that doesn't carry the same baggage.

    I understand how those MMJ users that are seriously ill, get upset with people "gaming" the system and claiming MMJ status when they are really recreational users. Hopefully our society will get past all this silliness and come to the rational conclusion that marijuana is both a medicine and a recreational drug that is far safer than alcohol.

    On a side note, I think the Germans got this down when they described Morphine addiction back in world war one as morphiumsüchtig. This was the German term for morphine addition, but they weren't calling it addiction, the term really means "Morphine seeking".

    If you want to seek clouds, seek clouds, nothing wrong with that, but if that's not what you are after, then you should not have to accept the "cloud chaser" label.

    Great discussion FC. Thanks for reorganizing things and starting this thread.
  2. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

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    I don't think the term "cloud chaser" has been used so much as a label in the medical vs. recreational argument. Rather I seem to see it used more in the "is exhaled vapor wasted vapor?" argument.

    In either case, I don't really have a problem with the term, even though I'm sure I fit the profile to some extent. Hell, I wouldn't have bought a Devastator if I didn't want to do some occasional cloud-chasing.:brow:

    :peace:
    Oscar_Milde and vorrange like this.
  3. vorrange

    vorrange Well-Known Member

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    I like how you always seem to sum up the questions in a few sentences. Short and simple, but with content. :nod:
    Stu likes this.
  4. darkrom

    darkrom Great Scott!

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    Personally I view "cloud chaser" as perfectly acceptable. I consider myself generally a cloud chaser. There are different people who vape for different reasons. Some people like clouds for the sign of faster results. Some simply like it for visual feedback of their hits. Personally I like it because I notice an increase in clouds GENERALLY (but notably not true with certain vapes) means stronger effects for MY specific needs.

    I think cloud chaser should be interpreted as just that, someone who desires clouds. Why that is is their own business. I don't view it as negative. You either want the micro cloudless hits or the big cloudy ones. Doesn't matter to me and I don't see how either side would have some sense of "superiority".
  5. Puffers

    Puffers Well-Known Member

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    X2 especially the bolded part. I consider myself a cloud chaser, because I get more effective, quicker pain relief IME. I also have a lot of stuff going on and don't always have time to sit down and sip at a vape for 20 min to get to a baseline medication level.



    Let me pose a question could cloud chasers be medicating more effectively then sipping for some medical conditions..... I think the answer could be yes. Since cloud chasers run there vapes hotter I hypothesize they are experiencing more degradation of psychoactive cannabinoids into more sedative cannabinod compounds like CBD/CBN (more effective for pain relief, anxiety, etc) from the high heat. There is no right answer for one person and cloud chasing very well may be the correct answer for some IMO.
    Bob Loblaw, crawdad, darkrom and 2 others like this.
  6. vorrange

    vorrange Well-Known Member

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    Your question actually makes a lot of sense, although one could argue that you can get the CBD/CBN benefits by vaping at high temps from the start of the load, regardless of the amount used.
  7. Puffers

    Puffers Well-Known Member

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    937
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area

    Not if high heat from the start is degrading thc into more sedative cannabinoids. It may be less efficient overall but you could extract more CBD like compounds to thc in a load.
  8. Xchadb

    Xchadb Meltin pipe Glass Blower

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    dont knock it til ya try it.

    count on both hands how many people you know have gotten a cloud, then got rid of it because they didnt like it.

    thought so.
  9. vorrange

    vorrange Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand what you said different from what i said. :hmm:

    My point is, you can achieve the same sedative effect regardless of how much you use.

    Meaning, you don't need to load a lot to achieve only sedative properties, you just need to vape at high temperatures from the start of the load, whether it is big or small.
  10. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    Hello, my name is lwien and I'm a cloud-chaser. I didn't used to be this way. I used to be a wisp-chaser. For over 4 years, I was satisfied with small, teeny, instsy weentsy leeeetle hits from 0.25gr from my PD. Then some asshole here started hyping the hell out of an LSV. Well, due to HIM (I take absolutely no responsibility whatsoever), I am now a confirmed cloud-chaser, and there's no looking back. So beware and take heed, for once you've chased clouds, chasing wisps of mist just seems so.............unmanly.

    Well, that's my story. I hope it helps others.
  11. Nosferatu

    Nosferatu Well-Known Member

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    Nice to see you've come to the dark side, I take it your next vape will be the VXC?
  12. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think the session has to be 20 minutes though?.

    You would get more out of your bud, by using small amounts. In other words instead of using .2 grams every time you load a bowl, and get clouds, you would divide that .2 into four to get .05 grams every time you load the bowl. You would get better results due to more cannabinoids going into your system then into the air, and it wouldn't take that long to do.

    To me the beauty of a vaporizer is you can be more accurate then smoking due to having temperature control and get more actives into your system without all the negative byproducts that smoking brings. When I puffed, exhaling a cloud was a given just based on what smoke is, and not wanting to fuck up my health, but when vaping, the rules change. Since I can be more accurate in dosage due to knowing what temperatures I'm working with, I can inhale a higher rate of actives, with little waste, meaning more high. The thing is I have to look at things differently then when I smoked, so that means I might not see a lot of vapor on my exhale, but I will still get high regardless.

    I think what needs to be asked is do people like the rush they get from a cloud as opposed to the whole high from a cloud?. That would be more accurate of a question as to why some like the cloud as opposed to why they don't?. I say that because, you notice that even though you get a quick effect from inhaling a huge cloud it doesn't last that long. In theory, you should be HIGH for AT LEAST 3-4 hours every time you puff a cloud, but that isn't the case with myself, and others I've seen. The reason I like the divide method, along with the fresh air inhale, is because my high last so long, which means I don't need to keep puffing to keep it going.

    Another thing is people tend to use lower temperatures when looking for cloudless exhales so that will effect the high also. What makes vaping so offbeat for different people is the fact that you can play with the temperature, and when people see what numbers they are using as with digital temperature displays, they tend to go low, but if they use vaporizers that have no temperature reading, they might be vaping at a high temperature around 392f, and don't know it, which releases more thc, but it also gives a cloud(especially when using a bong, and a good amount of herb), and they assume, because they see clouds, that's why the vapor is more effective, instead of the fact that they released more thc then they would normally do if they used low temperatures. Once you put all of these things into question, you change your view on what is an effective use of a vaporizer.

    People are gonna do what they want regardless of what they are being told, but if you can get better results by just changing the way you do some things why not do it?.
  13. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Only if it was gifted.

    Because "better", in this instance, is subjective.
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  14. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    Lwien, if our goal is to get higher or as mediacted as we can quickly, how is that being subjective?. If we were judging taste I would understand, but level of highness I can't. We are all trying to boil off the same cannabinoids, which means we are using the same temperature settings. The only thing that separates each user is the tool being used, which ultimately means how much air is diluting the vapor, as well as air temperature control.
  15. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    Because in spite of most of the statements that say that vapor expelled in clouds is wasted vapor, from my own personal experience, I get higher quicker when I take in a huge hit and expel a huge cloud than when I take in multiple hits and expel no clouds, and THAT is just as subjective being that I have no doubt that others would disagree.

    Now could it be the placebo affect of seeing a huge vapor cloud? Could be, but as in anything else, in my opinion, a placebo affect is just as valid as any other affect as long as it gets me to the same place at the same time and for as long.
    smokum, Stu and t-dub like this.
  16. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

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    I was just pondering this again as I took my last hit from my Cloud/Devastator. The scene, bad arthritis pain, cold, winter stiff joints, enthesitis raw, pain high. I take my "cloud chasing" big hit of indica . . . my arms and legs feel stretchy, then heavy, and start to buzz. My heart starts beating in my neck and my ears start to ring. I relax as my vision greys and the tunnel closes slightly, the pain signature fades . . . timing my exhale, trying not to end up on the floor doing my best Joe Cocker . . . coming home. Done. So what am I feeling now, 30 minutes later? Body waves or buzzes, tingling in my limbs and joints. Tendons relaxing. Buzzing that deflects my pain signals . . . small hits do not, will not, do this for me.

    I also realized a large part of my anger was because I thought that if anyone complained that a vape couldn't provide enough vapor with herb then we were getting put in this group, and I felt that my disease which took everything away, career all of it, has drug me kicking and screaming to get to this point . . . its frustrating.
    Purpl3_Haz3, crawdad and Roger D like this.
  17. Nosferatu

    Nosferatu Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to interrupt guys, but question for luchiano, with these small loads do you use low or high temps? Because if I loaded .05 into my cloud it would give me no vapor really, just one wispy hit. I admit I haven't found the best temp or load size with my cloud after all this time. But so far for best flavor and effect i use it at high temps and take big visible hits.
  18. Roger D

    Roger D Vapor Wizard

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    1,115
    Yeah personally the minimal amount I could use in a bowl is .07 but it has to be a really sticky part of the bud.
    I averaged .0985 per load in the past 24 days.

    A session generally medicates me at least 2 hours. Up to 4 yours.

    I like to start low sometimes but I also like to start on the maximum temperature and take a huge inhale straight. Depends on what kind of results I'm searching for
  19. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    lwien: I don't think you understand what I posted. Many things can cause the small hits to not be effective as I explained. There is a reason why you got a better effect from the cloud, you have to figure it out. It can be inhale speed, how well does the heater heat the air, how well was your bud ground up, and what temperature did you use. Just stating a cloud hit you better is not enough information to get the best out of your vaporizer. The reason why you get higher quicker is due to the lower levels of oxygen in your lungs giving an adrenaline rush. I explained it in previous post, if you're interested.

    t-dub, that sounds like you got an adrenaline rush, which is I why I think some people like the clouds. Overall I don't think that is good for your health in the long run because you may start to get adrenaline fatigue, and it may cause other problems in your health as you get older. There is a reason why you get the symptoms. Again, I'm not judging you as a bad person or anything negative, just giving other options for a more noticeable effect with less problematic symptoms.

    Nosferatu:I use low temps then raise them, when I want to sit back and enjoy the flavors of the herb, but sometimes I start out at 396f, and take a nice long inhale 40-60 seconds to get all the vapor in one hit along with fresh air for proper absorption. The reason you may be getting wispy vapor is because your grind may not be allowing enough hot air to come into contact with the herb, or you are using a temperature that is too low, while inhaling fast which won't allow enough air to heat up to temperature. Remember most vaporizers only heat up the heater, not the air, so you have to work around this by adjusting your inhale speeds to get as much air to heat up as possible. Try to find what works and keep it there. The only vaporizers that can give consistent results without any thinking about your inhale speeds for consistnet results are the volcano, and the aromed. The volcano uses an air pump so the air flow is consistent giving you a consistent release of cannabinoids, as long as you grind the herb good, spread just a little in the bowl, and use enough bags to get all of the cannabinoids released. Six bags is whats needed for the volcano classic at knob setting 7(396f). Three bags at setting 8(417f). Keep in mind that a lot of air is going into the bag, and they may have used too much bud that may have not been well ground up, so the temperature inside the bowl could have been lower in the beginning which is why so many bags were needed, but that still isn't bad considering how fast bags fill up.

    The Aromed has a blinking light to guide you to make sure you are inhaling at the rate the microchip is calculated to monitor air intake. The average is 3 liters of air every five seconds. This is important as it measures the temperature of the air, not the heaters temperature.
    Bob Loblaw likes this.
  20. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    There is no way in hell that I can take a 40 to 60 second hit. Your lungs must be the size of a sperm whales! I would think that that would cause more of a lack of oxygen transfer than taking one huge hit.
    Bob Loblaw likes this.
  21. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

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    Whatever . . . you think what you want. Are you a Dr.? My Dr.? You know a lot less than you presume. And, imho, you understand nothing, or have no personal experience with, debilitating, chronic pain.
    Oscar_Milde likes this.
  22. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    lwien: The hit includes fresh air. This is important as to why I think exhaling clouds aren't the best method. If you inhale too fast, then yes, you need big lungs due to the air filling up most of your lungs instead of vapor, but if you inhale at smooth, slow-moderate rate, you will be amazed how much vapor you can take in along with fresh air after the vapor is gone, which is why loading small bowls is important. With the vapexhale, you don't necessarily have to load small bowls, you can just lift the hydratube after the chamber gets thick, then inhale slow-moderate for 20-30 seconds so your lungs can fill up with fresh air. Continue this until you are blazed enough to stop.

    t-dub: If you read my post, I'm actually giving you something better to deal with your pain, but your anger isn't letting you see this. No anger towards you though. Hope everything gets better.
  23. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

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    No anger, once again you presume to lecture me on my health and presume to know what I have done and not done . . . you are amazing. Why is it such a mystery to you that we all interface with the plant in a unique way? And that this way will evolve with us over time? This is a miracle of the plant.
    Oscar_Milde likes this.
  24. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    769
    t-dub: I edited my post so read it again as I explained how to use my technique on the vapexhale. Also, I'm not referring to the cannabis plant, but the use of vaporizers. Two totally different things.
  25. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

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    Location:
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    Yeah I read your stuff . . . build all the little highs you want with your friends. Check back when you get sick, or are in chemo, or starting into end of life issues . . . your attitude will change. And I know how to use a vape, so I guess you could say I was referring as interfacing with both.

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